Optoma HD70. The new budget king. - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 12:15 PM
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Just browsing around projectorpeople's website and noted that the HD70 was their #3 seller. Impressive, for such a new, relatively untested unit.
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post #542 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteves View Post

Tom saying it is good enough in my book.

I was referrring to the "Optoma engineer" but, as you bring it up, Tom (guitarman) is not an independent, objective observer.

Tom has a "dog in the fight".

Although he hasn't bothered to mention it, guitarman is an Optoma reseller.

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post #543 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

Tom has a "dog in the fight".

That may be true, but what incentive would he have to falsely talk-up the HD70? Clearly he'd get a bigger margin on the HD72 or any higher-end unit. I continue to feel he's impartial, and hell, he got the unit a week ahead of anyone else, we should be thanking him (THANKS TOM!) not calling his integrity and test results into question.

There is not competition to the HD70. Benq has a $1k 720p DLP in the works, but there is no other 'dog' fighting. This does help me understand why you've been so adamant to refuse his insistence that the 8-10bit differential isn't visible in his extensive observation.
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post #544 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nightfly13 View Post

That may be true, but what incentive would he have to falsely talk-up the HD70? Clearly he'd get a bigger margin on the HD72 or any higher-end unit.

Ahh....well, let's see....because he can move more of these.....

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Originally Posted by nightfly13 View Post

There is not competition to the HD70. Benq has a $1k 720p DLP in the works, but there is no other 'dog' fighting.

Exactly why he can move more of these now before it is too late and the true competitions sets in. Remove the wool from your eyes man.

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post #545 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

I was referrring to the "Optoma engineer" but, as you bring it up, Tom (guitarman) is not an independent, objective observer.

Tom has a "dog in the fight".

Although he hasn't bothered to mention it, guitarman is an Optoma reseller.


Well, there's nothing wrong with believing in a product you sell. It makes it much more fun trust me. Nobody is twisting any arms to buy from Tom, least of all Tom himself. If you consider his sharing of information and knowledge about this product to be a sales pitch then simply proceed as you would in any transaction, meaning do your own homework and then buy what you feel comfortable with FROM whomever you feel comfortable with. I'm as sceptical as most about things but Tom is a long standing forum member and has always been patient enough to answer questions and offer advice. I think you are taking your "dog in the fight" mantra to the extreme. Use your own judgement as always but don't discount someone just because they stand to make a buck. We are all trying to do that.
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post #546 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Stormspike View Post

I just sold my H31 for $700ish and was looking to upgrade to the H70.


LOL,

I hope the person you sold it to was not a close friend, because when he figures out he could have bought a new one for $599 ( $699 -100 rebate,directly from Optoma) he probably won't be your close friend much longer!!!!
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post #547 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

Remove the wool from your eyes man.

I've been reading Tom's posts for 6 months. Never knew he was a reseller until just now. Still don't know how I'd buy from him, even if I wanted to (and I won't because I'm in his same state and would pay sales tax).

The only eye impediment that I detect is 2 or 3 completely ignorant nay-sayers. Ignorant in the sense not a single one of you have ever laid eyes on a HD70 or seen the image it throws. You've never seen it, but you can only talk about theoretical deficiencies and seem to be espousing that Tom only gives it a good review because he sells them. And Projectorcentral's motivation for 'wholeheartedly recommending" it is? And everyone else who's seen it and only glow about it? Hate to say it, but remove the plank before you go after the speck..
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post #548 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly13 View Post

I've been reading Tom's posts for 6 months. Never knew he was a reseller until just now. Still don't know how I'd buy from him, even if I wanted to (and I won't because I'm in his same state and would pay sales tax).

You are missing the point again. You don't have to buy from him for Optoma to have large success. You are too literal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly13 View Post

The only eye impediment that I detect is 2 or 3 completely ignorant nay-sayers. Ignorant in the sense not a single one of you have ever laid eyes on a HD70 or seen the image it throws.

Why waste time then? We are all waiting for those who could only buy this or those that did buy one to give opinions. Then we build consensus. Not one person trying to con others in the face of technological fact! If it is good, the consensus will eventually tell, but right now we can do without someone trying to promote their own agenda.

Again, no one ever said this is a worthless piece of crap! But all here have different levels of expectations and will ask the questions they want to make a buying decision and hope the salesman can be gagged while they are thinking.

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post #549 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:02 PM
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Stop the Tom bashing ! I really feel that Tom has provided us with TONs of useful info. Based on his posts I was introduced to the wonderful H31 (my first front projector) and loved it. No I did not know Tom was a reseller but then again why would I as he never approached me or offered to sell me one. He provided me tons of useful info even after I had purchased the H31, like how to get rid of the red push through the advanced user menus. I am thankful for Tom's help and look forward to setting up and tweaking my HD70 when it arrives on Thursday.
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post #550 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

... hope the salesman can be gagged

I'm quite confident that you're in the (shockingly narrow-minded) minority if you think Tom should be gagged - no longer have a voice in this thread. He's our best source of information thus far, I dare say quite in a stark contrast to the sight-unseen scoffers on the other side.
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post #551 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:15 PM
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maybe the sight-unseen scoffers are working for competitors to optoma and trying to stop it from selling

anyways, my projector is due to arrive thursday afternoon, anyone want any closeup photos of anything? Projector, screenshots, the mount I am building?

if so, post here and I will photograph the hell out of the projector when it arrives.

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post #552 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:24 PM
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Quote:


Again, no one ever said this is a worthless piece of crap! But all here have different levels of expectations and will ask the questions they want to make a buying decision and hope the salesman can be gagged while they are thinking.

[/quote]

You are way out of line. I don't think Tom has solicited a sale of this projector to you or anyone else. He simply stated that it is available, a list price and his personal review of the unit. You must have really been burned in the past. If so then I'm sorry but don't rain on our parade and pretend to be some bringer of untold truths. I'm sure we could all pick apart this $999 projector if we wanted to but what purpose does it serve? You contradict yourself by saying in one sentence that "if it is good" and in the same breath saying "everyone has different expectations". Yeah, good to me might be s@!t to you but that doesn't make it "good" or "bad" either way. It's all about compromise as with anything in life and if your not willing to compromise some tech features in this unit in return for the great price point then leave the thread and look elsewhere.
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post #553 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post


You are way out of line. I don't think Tom has solicited a sale of this projector to you or anyone else. He simply stated that it is available, a list price and his personal review of the unit. You must have really been burned in the past. If so then I'm sorry but don't rain on our parade and pretend to be some bringer of untold truths. I'm sure we could all pick apart this $999 projector if we wanted to but what purpose does it serve? You contradict yourself by saying in one sentence that "if it is good" and in the same breath saying "everyone has different expectations". Yeah, good to me might be s@!t to you but that doesn't make it "good" or "bad" either way. It's all about compromise as with anything in life and if your not willing to compromise some tech features in this unit in return for the great price point then leave the thread and look elsewhere.


keep preaching to yourself until you convince yourself. Something you appear to be battling with.

BTW - no one is out of line here....except Tom who may have violated AVS rules by not representing himself properly

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post #554 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:30 PM
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where's an ignore button when you need one?

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post #555 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly13 View Post

I'm quite confident that you're in the (shockingly narrow-minded) minority if you think Tom should be gagged - no longer have a voice in this thread. He's our best source of information thus far, I dare say quite in a stark contrast to the sight-unseen scoffers on the other side.

The fact remain, no one should be shaddy...why did he not state who he was so we knew where he was coming from?

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post #556 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:37 PM
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HAve not been on here for a couple of years. My a10-x bulb finally went out and instead of replacing the lamp i purchased the hd70. Will post pics as soon as i can.
Will be viewing comcast HD and DVDs. Loved the A10-X hopefully I will love this one just as much

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Ain't nobody so good that they don't need Gods love
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post #557 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

The fact remain, no one should be shaddy...why did he not state who he was so we knew where he was coming from?

I knew it already and did not care! You seem to be the only one that does besides Cavu. I'm not saying Tom should be our sole source of information when evaluating Optoma but he is a good resource and many here would agree with me. I don't understand what you think is "shaddy". Nobody is trying to take your money that I know of.
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post #558 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post

Nobody is trying to take your money that I know of.

lets hope not

alright...this is going nowhere...Again, once you like what you have, that's what matters. I just take it personal when someone withholds information which could make them *seem* bias.

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post #559 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

lets hope not

alright...this is going nowhere...Again, once you like what you have, that's what matters. I just take it personal when someone withholds information which could make them *seem* bias.

Fair enough. I agree, I don't like to be told only part of the truth either when making a decision, especially a buying decision. The only thing I have to go on as far as Tom's reputation are his past postings on this site which seem to me to be honest and honorable. Maybe the reason he does not tout the fact he is a reseller is for the very same reason we have been having this conversation. He does not want to pressure people to buy something he represents. That does not mean that he can't do his best selling job. Last time I checked that was not illegal. As nightfly suggested, I have no idea how I or anyone else would go about buying from Tom so I'm not sure what he would have to gain by providing the few of us here with some information. If more units sell because of him then I would just consider that to be word of mouth advertisement, not a smooze job.

All that being said, Tradewinds, I want you with me when I go to buy my next car!
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post #560 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly13 View Post

Just browsing around projectorpeople's website and noted that the HD70 was their #3 seller. Impressive, for such a new, relatively untested unit.

Now it's #2.
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post #561 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post

I knew it already and did not care! You seem to be the only one that does besides Cavu.

It's more than common courtesy to provide full disclosure in a situation like this. In some jurisdictions it is the law.

Noone has suggested that guitarman is trying to make direct sales as a result of his postings and glowing reports. The free projectors he receives from Optoma more than make up for his efforts as a spokesperson for the company.

But, by hiding his affiliation with Optoma, guitarman fits the definition of a "shill":
Main Entry: shill
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps short for shillaber, of unknown origin
1 a : one who acts as a decoy (as for a pitchman or gambler) b : one who makes a sales pitch or serves as a promoter
The point is that an educated consumer must know the veracity of the source as well as the information they evaluate when making a purchase.

I note that nightfly13 is almost the exact same age as my son. Perhaps when you have enjoyed more life experience you will come to understand the larger perspective. But I will pass on one piece of advice that I gave my own son: "Recognize and avoid herd mentality! Form and act on your own judgment".

And I must point out, again, that I have made no negative comments whatsoever about the HD70. It is an exciting development but that does not mean it should not be scrutinized with questions asked and answered honestly and without bias.

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post #562 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

It's more than common courtesy to provide full disclosure in a situation like this. In some jurisdictions it is the law.

Noone has suggested that guitarman is trying to make direct sales as a result of his postings and glowing reports. The free projectors he receives from Optoma more than make up for his efforts as a spokesperson for the company.

But, by hiding his affiliation with Optoma, guitarman fits the definition of a "shill":
Main Entry: shill
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps short for shillaber, of unknown origin
1 a : one who acts as a decoy (as for a pitchman or gambler) b : one who makes a sales pitch or serves as a promoter
The point is that an educated consumer must know the veracity of the source as well as the information they evaluate when making a purchase.

I note that nightfly13 is almost the exact same age as my son. Perhaps when you have enjoyed more life experience you will come to understand the larger perspective. But I will pass on one piece of advice that I gave my own son: "Recognize and avoid herd mentality! Form and act on your own judgment".

And I must point out, again, that I have made no negative comments whatsoever about the HD70. It is an exciting development but that does not mean it should not be scrutinized with questions asked and answered honestly and without bias.

Everything you say makes sense. I don't think anyone here wants to walk blindly into a buying opportunity but the fact remains that some people do more research than others. If someone bought this projector based solely on Tom's review then I think that would be a mistake but I'm sure the screenshots and price will be plenty to generate some sales. I agree, if you truly value your dollar then you need to drill down deep into the specifications and the capabilities of the unit. Nothing wrong with that. However, I think that Tom is getting a bad rap here for no reason other than the fact that he is trying to present his product in a positive light.
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post #563 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly13 View Post

...and hell, he got the unit a week ahead of anyone else,

LOL! Why do you think that is.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #564 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post

I think that Tom is getting a bad rap here for no reason other than the fact that he is trying to present his product in a positive light.

Well, he wouldn't be getting a "bad rap" at all if people were made aware that he was "present[ing] his product in a positive light".

When Bob Williams of InFocus posts in these fora, his signature says:

__________________
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www.infocus.com and the reader has the opportunity to weigh Bob's comments in that light. guitarman has not provided that same opportunity.

BTW, I have now discovered that this is not a new discussion about guitarman - it has gone on at length in other threads on AVS for months - so its not like he hasn't been aware of these concerns already. He's has obviously chosen to ignore those concerns.

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post #565 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:25 PM
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If there is one good example of "the emperor has no clothes", this thread would be it. tradewinds and cavu are simply saying get all the facts before making your buying decisions. Caveat emptor, that's all.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #566 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

It is an exciting development

I agree with you CAVU, there simply is no other pj or company out right now that offers the bang for the buck of the HD70 @ $999 its outstanding and with out peers.
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post #567 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:33 PM
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Anyone found out if it bobs or weaves 1080i yet? Also, what refresh rates does it sync to?

Thanks!
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post #568 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavu View Post

Well, he wouldn't be getting a "bad rap" at all if people were made aware that he was "present[ing] his product in a positive light".


Krasmuzik installs/recommends/sells Infocus does this make his review non-relative on this machine? I know it's relative because he is ISF certified but he does have ties Infocus(Dealer) so I guess you could say he has a dog in the fight also as they are direct competitors. I just felt that should be disclosed here in this thread since disclosure is so important.
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post #569 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post


All that being said, Tradewinds, I want you with me when I go to buy my next car!

The only advice I'll give you is to do your research, print out all the specs and add-on features you want, walk in, ask the sales guys to take a seat and proceed to the manager office with your list and the price you want to pay. Preferably do it at the end of March.

This approach works at best buy and CC too.

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post #570 of 2476 Old 09-26-2006, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

LOL! Why do you think that is.

Your comment was in connection with GuitarMan getting an HD70 before anyone else. But I thought I had my HD70 before Guitarman. And I am not connected with Optoma, or ANY retail chain, etc. I am a programmer. And I did a normal order via ProjectorPeople and it shipped directly from Optoma way before ProjectorPeople.com knew it was shipping.

So I think any comments about Guitarman getting special treatment and faster access to the HD70 than a regular person like myself, if just nonsense.

Guitarman, correct me if I am wrong, but I got my HD70 on Tuesday Sept 19th. I think that was a day or 2 before you. Not trying to brag or anything, just want people to see that being connected with Optoma didn't help you get one faster than anyone else.
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