Update on the cheap WVGA LCD with $30 lamps. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 225 Old 10-17-2006, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_galathon View Post

I brought three in from China and the quality is really really low, they are noisy and quite bulky.

The colors are washed and the cripsness is well, not very crisp. Also you need to have a real dark room if you're going to be watching a movie shot elsewhere than say, Alaska in daytime. (lots of snow)

I've managed to sell them at cost, not making a single penny on them.

One went to a restaurant to replace the faulty one on their "giant screen sports" room.

Two went to some conference halls where they will be used in conferences.

The upside is the cost of the lamp but the quality doesn't even come close to my entry level BenQ 6110 DLP.

And when I say they are noisy, OMG the damn thing sounds like a server!!!

It is my understanding that Lumenlab has some things changed on their PJ so the one you purchased is not the same.

The owner said there will probably be some screenshots posted tonight. It will interesting to see.

"220. 221. Whatever it takes."
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post #92 of 225 Old 10-17-2006, 11:14 PM
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Brainchild(lumenlab owner) has stated the lumenlab version is tweaked more than just the regular chinese model. Its not just the same projector with a lumenlab sticker on it. Lets just wait for the official release of his version before we "review it". Its the only right thing to do.
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post #93 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 07:29 AM
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An update on the projectors:

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainchild View Post

A few screen shots this evening. The projector is not yet fully calibrated and I'm using an old piece of blackout cloth. Still, the results for 110" are impressive. The projector is very bright and must be turned down a LOT. A very thorough calibration should be performed; taking the time yields excellent results. I only had a couple of hours tonight so not perfect yet...








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post #94 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainchild View Post


A shot of the NTSC test screen and room:







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post #95 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 07:45 AM
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More screenies:

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Originally Posted by brainchild View Post

More Pirates!




Another shot showing the room and screen brightness...





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post #96 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 09:55 AM
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Ugh.....lets wait for a real calibrated review before we talk about screenshots. FWIW, those look terrible.

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post #97 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 10:10 AM
 
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Where'd the quote come from? There's no "brainchild" on AVS.

Also, looks like somebody likes Photoshop. Compare the reflected/ambient light in pic #7 to that in pic #14.*

*(That is, if you can stand to look at those awful images long enough to do so.)
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post #98 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Where'd the quote come from? There's no "brainchild" on AVS.

Also, looks like somebody likes Photoshop. Compare the reflected/ambient light in pic #7 to that in pic #14.*

*(That is, if you can stand to look at those awful images long enough to do so.)

brainchild is the owner of Lumenlab. Those shots where posted on their forum.

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post #99 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Ugh.....lets wait for a real calibrated review before we talk about screenshots. FWIW, those look terrible.

When you say they are terrible. What exactly makes them terrible? What do you guys look for? I have a hard time telling from screenshots.

Brian

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post #100 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 10:23 AM
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Little rough on the screenshots. They look good enough for a 500 projector.
Ambient light difference, possible photoshopping noted....

The thread is about those insanely cheap PJ,s not some hacked together POS you
can't buy at Walmart.
I'm with the crowd who believes the insanely cheap COMMERCIAL model is also a POS, but it's a POS backed up by a real company, not some guy in him Mom's basement, sitting around in his underwear soldering wires together between his online gaming and porn sessions.

Enjoy.

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post #101 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 10:30 AM
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I'm wondering about how the picture looks darker at the edges then in the center.

I think its hard to tell about screenshots because of all the variables. For example was the digital camera on a tripod? What quality camera was used to take the picture? What setting were used on the camera? Was there light was in the room?

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post #102 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 11:06 AM
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spyder696969, HeadRusch,

I think that you're distaste for this projector has become pretty well documented in this thread. Honestly, your incessant condemnation of this projector have started to sound trite and unconducive to any rational discussion about this projector. Is there anything to be gained by consistently denouncing this projector? And yes, we get the point, it's not comparable to other projectors out there!!!! You've done a pretty good job in disseminating the projector's shortcomings and should've left it at that. Anyone who wishes to know if this projector is right for them can read the first 3 pages of this thread to make their decision. In all likelihood, the people who are reading this thread are probably those who are still interested in this projector. Simply put, there is no need to post disparaging remarks everytime something new is posted in this thread.

Furthermore, unfounded accusations about photoshopping pictures are just that: unfounded. You might want to consider the fact that maybe, just maybe, the brightness of the projector was toned down since picture number 7 was taken? In fact, go to post number number 879 of the Lumenlab thread (posted on the 20th), and you'll see a very similar picture of the NTSC test screen. Compare this:



to this:



and it's quite probable that the pictures were taken on the same day, prior to any calibration that might have been performed.

I've tried to be civil in my arguments (and have apologized when I thought I've sounded like an ass), but comments like "That is, if you can stand to look at those awful images long enough to do so" and "FWIW, those look terrible" truly irk me.
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post #103 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 12:28 PM
 
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Here's image #14 "untouched" (at least by me) from the original post:




Now here's image #7, brightness scaled down to -39, and contrast bumped to +16 via PictureIt:



Anything look familiar? Look carefully at the walls and whatever that cylindrical thing is on the floor. They now look the exact same with a simple "Shopping" job of image #7, as opposed to the original image.

The simple fact of the matter is that anyone that has white walls can attest to the fact that you're going to have ambient light reflecting off them, with possibly the lone exception of a completely darkened scene, such as one from The Descent. The scene from Pirates of the Carribbean shown in image #14 is clearly not a dark scene. Had ONLY the brightness of the PJ been adjusted, as is suggested, the sky surrounding the image would have been very dark, and the whites of their coats would have likely appeared grey.

As it stands, the contrast on that image looks insanely high in an attempt to bump the perceived white/black levels. Also, where did the inadvertent light spillage go? Does that just magically vanish with a change in brightness? I think not.

Calling something exactly what it is based upon what is available for study could hardly be construed as "incessant condemnation" or "irrational". On the other hand, incessantly pimping the projector and posting image upon image of/from it makes one appear to have more than just a passing interest in it as a consumer and more that of someone with a much more vested interest in its future.

Honestly, I hope it turns out to be a decent PJ. If it succeeds, it has the potential to perhaps push bulb prices down a notch across the board. I've never hidden my enthusiasm for the pioneering spirit of the LL guys, so more power to them. That said, I will not; remain silent about what I feel to be an untruth, deceive others, deceive myself, or convince anyone into believing something other than what's right before our eyes.
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post #104 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 12:38 PM
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Here are two photos of a projector i made out of wood, and overhead projector parts a year ago.


Screenshots and projectors really dont mix. Ive seen worse photos of G90's. The digital camera adds alot to the image.
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post #105 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 01:42 PM
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Quote:


Here's image #14 "untouched" (at least by me) from the original post:




Now here's image #7, brightness scaled down to -39, and contrast bumped to +16 via PictureIt:



Anything look familiar? Look carefully at the walls and whatever that cylindrical thing is on the floor. They now look the exact same with a simple "Shopping" job of image #7, as opposed to the original image.

The simple fact of the matter is that anyone that has white walls can attest to the fact that you're going to have ambient light reflecting off them, with possibly the lone exception of a completely darkened scene, such as one from The Descent. The scene from Pirates of the Carribbean shown in image #14 is clearly not a dark scene. Had ONLY the brightness of the PJ been adjusted, as is suggested, the sky surrounding the image would have been very dark, and the whites of their coats would have likely appeared grey.

As it stands, the contrast on that image looks insanely high in an attempt to bump the perceived white/black levels. Also, where did the inadvertent light spillage go? Does that just magically vanish with a change in brightness? I think not.

It seems that I owe you an apology for calling this as "unfounded". I don't have any experience in photoshopping and didn't realize that this could be done. That being said, is it still possible that this could be an honest-to-goodness trick of the camera?

Quote:


Calling something exactly what it is based upon what is available for study could hardly be construed as "incessant condemnation" or "irrational". On the other hand, incessantly pimping the projector and posting image upon image of/from it makes one appear to have more than just a passing interest in it as a consumer and more that of someone with a much more vested interest in its future.

I can assure you that I have absolutely no personal nor any sort of business connection with Lumenlab. The reason I constantly update this thread because, well, no one else does, and I'm sure that there are people who are genuinely interested in it's progress. If it seems I'm overly enthused about the projector, it's because I think that this is probably the projector that will introduce most people to the world of FP (a niche market in a world full of flat panels).

Quote:


Honestly, I hope it turns out to be a decent PJ. If it succeeds, it has the potential to perhaps push bulb prices down a notch across the board. I've never hidden my enthusiasm for the pioneering spirit of the LL guys, so more power to them. That said, I will not; remain silent about what I feel to be an untruth, deceive others, deceive myself, or convince anyone into believing something other than what's right before our eyes.

As you probably know, I certainly hope that this projector turns out to be as good as it is claimed to be. It wasn't my intention to ask you to censor yourself; it just felt like there is too much negativity about a product which doesn't claim to be the world's best PJ. That being said, we shall find out in a few weeks time just how good it will be. As I've stated before, it'd be nice to see an independant third party review.
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post #106 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomerBrian View Post

When you say they are terrible. What exactly makes them terrible? What do you guys look for? I have a hard time telling from screenshots.

Brian

A couple of things Brian, and I *am* capable of keeping an objective eye open because I did say lets not judge by screenshots, lets wait for an honest to god review.

The darkening at the corners is called Vignetting, and is a result of poor optics.

Look at the shot of Johnny Depp's face talking to one of the British guards. Look at his flesh, look at the flesh of the guard....why do they both look like they have the skin quality of Edward James Oslmos That color mottling....is that a DVD or is that a DIVX blown up waaaay too large??? I can't tell, so I blame the projector.

Next, look at the last shot in the series with the pirate. All those dark patches should have detail in them, they dont. This PJ isn't shjowing any shadow detail whatsoever (in the screen shots), again its the contrast ratio. Everything is fading to black...all the screenshots go from light to dark with almost no gradiation. I'm guessing he probably dropped the brightness big-time so the colors didn't look too washed out for his screenshots, but thats not an acceptable solution.

All the shots appear to dump right to solid grey. And I'm guessing its VERY grey, its just that unless you use a $10,000 digital camera to take screencaps, a camera will always crush blacks down. No way it looks black like that in the real world.

Again.....I'll wait until someone credible does a review and takes some measurements.

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post #107 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 05:56 PM
 
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I should also add that I do have a reasonable interest in the LL unit. My friend owns a bar and the PJ there is left on from open to close, 18+ hours per day, 360 days per year. I actually wanted to get the LL for her, since it seemed to be a nice, cheap solution, what with the $30 lamps. Hell, drunks don't care how technically perfect the image is, just that it's BIG, BIG, BIG.

I'd have to say that I'm a bit more than irritated that LL keeps bumping back the release/shipment dates on the unit though. My intention was to get her this unit and do a personal review for a week or so in my home before intalling it in the bar. Looks like that's not going to happen now, since she got the IN24 during the CC "closeout" sale. At least she got the lamp warantee, so it's not a huge deal either way, other than no personal first-hand viewing of this particular unit by me.

I fully agree that this unit can be a good thing, in the fact that those who are new to PJs and/or don't expect more could become enamoured with the technology. I've even said that if the unit were <$300 that I'd buy one for my 8 year-old son for his room. I also did a poll thread asking what AVS members would pay for this PJ as well, just to test the waters and see if others thought along the same lines. I like the idea of the unit and I respect the guys that are making it, it's just the cost factor that I can't overcome, considering I only paid $30 more for my 4805 last year and that the H31 is only $100 more right now.
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post #108 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 06:41 PM
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$500? Not bad at all...I'd buy one.
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post #109 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 07:39 PM
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CC has IN24 (800X600) DLP with 1700 lumens and 2000:1 CR for less than $500 after rebate (even less if you use 10% >$199 coupon).

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post #110 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 08:41 PM
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This is one hot thread. It's almost burning my skin .

I like DIY a lot. I built myself a projector (first an LCD+OHP) and later a "coffin" which never made it from the basement (due to it's size and not that good quality to be worth keeping it in the living room). Anyway, now that my DIY pride was satisfied (and the taste for a pj opened) I'm looking to buy a commercial one.

The reality is that I want to get something that is good enough "it's hard to define that" so I try to explore all the options from a LL PJ to an Panasonic PT-AX100U (I know this is quite a range but I want to hit the place where I'm happy with what I get visually) . I've seen already some models in action: a Sharp DT100, the Panasonic PT-AE900U, etc.. I'm lookin' at Optoma HD70 too.

So,I wanted to see if there are some references to the LL commercial projector here and I found them in this thread. Unfortunately it is not helping to much (perfectly normal considering that nobody had the chance to test it).

And just to contribute to the heat, I think the DIY LL Pjs can provide decent results. Here is one of the pictures from an LCD thrown on an OHP (image was around 100" on my light green wall :-); I hope the picture gets uploaded because I cannot see it in the preview of this message ). By far, I don't consider it high quality, but I can bet that most of the people would be Ok with it if they had to pay only $200-$300 for a Projector.

Anyway, I'll see what happens. Now I'm really curious what is going to be the LL PJ considering the reactions I see in AVS and what I read on the LL site.
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post #111 of 225 Old 10-24-2006, 08:57 PM
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If the cost was in the 300 range, I would get one of these in a second for my kids room. I have a 4805 in there now, but would love to let them use it when ever they want, because the lamp is so cheap.


"it is the mac-daddy of all centers".
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post #112 of 225 Old 10-25-2006, 05:14 AM
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I dont even know if I'd get one for my kids tho.....that lamp in there is the kind that burns, melts casings, and bursts into spontanious flames!

IF YOU DONT WANT TO BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN, DONT BUY THIS PROJECTOR!!!

Just kidding...

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post #113 of 225 Old 10-25-2006, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

I dont even know if I'd get one for my kids tho.....that lamp in there is the kind that burns, melts casings, and bursts into spontanious flames!

IF YOU DONT WANT TO BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN, DONT BUY THIS PROJECTOR!!!

Just kidding...







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post #114 of 225 Old 10-25-2006, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

I dont even know if I'd get one for my kids tho.....that lamp in there is the kind that burns, melts casings, and bursts into spontanious flames!

IF YOU DONT WANT TO BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN, DONT BUY THIS PROJECTOR!!!

Just kidding...


I wouldn't go that far, as stated in my previous post, the model I had sucked for HT but was adequate for commercial viewing, conferencing etc.

As a matter of fact I regret not keeping one to watch sports on TV and save my DLP's 400$ lamp for DVDs.

They were bad but not THAT bad.
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post #115 of 225 Old 10-30-2006, 10:37 AM
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Just as a quick mention, the difference in darkness in the above pics could well be related to the camera...

My camera adjusts it's exposer and ISO drastically depending on different lighting to the point I can take pictures at twighlight that look like overcast midday shots.

During this the light sources tend to experience the greatest change while secodnary light sources seem to get less effect, which would produce results very much like the difference attributed to photoshopping.

In other words just because my camera adjusts to make a dimmer central light source more "properly" lit, does not mean the reflections on walls get the same treatment... as wrong as it may sound it just happens that way.

Also notice that the brighter picture has a huge solid white bar as well as other solid bright bars, while the dimmer room picture features what appears to be a pretty white picture, but might well be blue and somewhat dim, just adjusted for by the camera. And again, no the adjustment wouldn't necessarily increase the visibility reflected light from the walls.

Those pics could be photoshopped but I don't think so due to their source and the fact that indeed they look like what I would expect if I did the same thing with my camera.

Maybe someone with more experience could check the exif data and see if any sort of tampering is evident there.

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post #116 of 225 Old 10-30-2006, 01:42 PM
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Look ... it is just a projector made with some simpler techniques than other projectors and have both a low cost and a lower total cost of ownership. I personally built my own, and I love the image. I am sure this one is at least comparable.

I love to crawl the HT outlets and AV stores. I have seen great setups for tens of thousands, and decent setups for a few thousands. Bottom-line is it's a great image you get with one of these, and your total HT experience might actually be grander after you take the money saved and put it into a good quality screen, lighting control, A/V equipment to drive it and some good content. Things one might not afford with a $3k projector.

But if you feel threatened so badly by less expensive equipment creeping up on what you spent so much on, please ... vent away...call it a photoshop lie, point to the corners, try to make sure no one buys one from your hysterics, etc. I personally will be too busy enjoying another of the AFI 100.
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post #117 of 225 Old 10-30-2006, 01:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weldonjb View Post

But if you feel threatened so badly by less expensive equipment creeping up on what you spent so much on, please ... vent away...call it a photoshop lie, point to the corners, try to make sure no one buys one from your hysterics, etc. I personally will be too busy enjoying another of the AFI 100.

Hmmmm. Lets see. Last year, I got my SP4805 (you know, the beloved, most popular and talked-about PJ ever on AVS with over 1.4 MILLION views of the threads?) for a grand total of $532 shipped. I just picked up another one for $425 with <400 hours usage for $400 shipped a few weeks ago. I hardly see myself as feeling threatened by a $500 unit that is inferior in every way, even by its own admission.

As far as thie camera images are concerned, the shot of PotC should actually be brighter than the test pattern, not darker.
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post #118 of 225 Old 10-30-2006, 02:04 PM
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does anyone else notice how uneven the brightness is....seems much brighter in the middle and very dim on the left and right ends...besides that it a decient image (besides the fact a screen shot is a terrible representation of what an image may actually look like in real life.)
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post #119 of 225 Old 10-30-2006, 04:29 PM
 
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I should also mention that I'm not an elitist in any way. We're not discussing 1080p versus "lowly" 480p here, nor are we comparing a Ruby that costs thousands of dollars to a PJ that costs hundreds. I'm making the comparison of VALUE AT $500. I simply don't want to see someone new to HT getting an inferior setup when they could have something phenomenal like the sp4805 or H31, which are the absolute cream of the crop at the $500 mark.
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post #120 of 225 Old 10-30-2006, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey View Post

CC has IN24 (800X600) DLP with 1700 lumens and 2000:1 CR for less than $500 after rebate (even less if you use 10% >$199 coupon).

It is $599 now. Dang, I missed the sale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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