Update on the cheap WVGA LCD with $30 lamps. - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 225 Old 02-11-2007, 05:25 AM
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Well I hope this picks up, maybe the next gen will have better optics/lcd with the same lighting system. I learned quickly that gaming rules on120" HD screen, but sucks when your bulb dies 3 months later. Then its back to the little tv. With the price of the DLP's dropping I wouldn't have a problem giving this a spin if it drops in price bit. It could be a good backup for normal tv/games and the cool winamp visuals. It is worth mentioning that a friend got one of the chepo low res PJ's and it really wasn't that bad. His kid still uses it for movies, and cheesy vid games. It doesn't compare to today's stuff, but to a 5 year old it is amazing. I'm sure this lumalab will be much better then those things.

As for the quality comments, of course this is this thing is going to be rough. Hell half the time the big boys get it wrong. Remeber the Z2 problems, and their great warrenty support. I think if this makes the $299 range then people will start to open up to it. Heck I would give a try, since its just the price of bulb, BTW I've replaced 2 already on my Z3 so It is under lock and key and babied.
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post #212 of 225 Old 02-11-2007, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBeelzebub View Post

BTW I've replaced 2 already on my Z3 so It is under lock and key and babied.

I just went over 850 hours on my Benq 6200 (it's a little over two years old). No problems. Never really 'babied'. Sits on my coffee table in a smoke filled environment. We'll see.

Bulb failure is the number one worry for anybody that owns a decent projector, but it's a chance I took and I'm glad I did it....so far... The lamp is supposed to be good for two thousand hours at economy. I should have a couple more years before I hit that wall. By then I might be ready to get something different anyway.

Bottom line for me.... I've already 'made my money back' on the projector. At the time I purchased, it was between a forty inch plasma for three grand or the projector at a little more than a THIRD of that. In the meantime, you can now get a forty inch plasma for $1500. So I could now go out and buy that forty inch plasma and still wouldn't have spent the three grand it would have cost me just to buy the plasma back then.

Something else changed in the last two years as well. I wouldn't think of owning anythng as small as a 40" now that I know what a decent 100" DLP image looks like.

Enjoy.

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post #213 of 225 Old 05-01-2007, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

If you're using the PJ like an AVERAGE projector owner does, getting 3-4 hours per day out of it, the purchase of this unit would be incredibly ridiculous and an outright travesty. At 3.5 hours per day, a typical bulb on a quality unit at the same initial cost (like the IN72) will last you 3 years. If you consider the IF replacement bulb costs $350, and the LL bulb costs $30, then you save exactly $330 over 3 years, or $110 per year. This total comes out to a whopping $9 per month, or just about 3 CENTS per day.

Personally, it boggles my mind to think that someone would bitch up a storm if they had spent $8 for a movie ticket and gotten terrible PQ once, yet would accept that same gawd-awful PQ in thier home on a daily basis for only a few pennies that they wouldn't bother to bend over and pick up on the street.

Well for me it's not really about the cost, it's more about the principle. I'd just assume not get screwed, and that's just what these projector manufacturers are doing. For those of us who have grown up with real movie projectors, slide projectors, film strip projectors and have replaced a bulb or two in these things, we damn well know there nothing in the bulbs themselves that make them cost that much! It's just pure monopolistic profit that's setting the price for these things. I like that LL is trying to bust the trend and come out with something the average consumer can afford, and take us back to when a bulb was just a bulb. The bottom line is that we want to like the LL product because we're tired of being screwed. Now all they need to do is mate the $30 bulb to a DLP or LCOS setup so that we can really have something to talk about.
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post #214 of 225 Old 05-02-2007, 12:59 PM
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I'm no pro but that PJ looks awful, at least from the pics I"m seeing. I was considering going that route because of the bulb, but now it looks like that bulb is probably the reason for the poor uniformity.

This screenshot alone is what tells me this PJ is no good http://idfn.net/new/IMG_3387.JPG

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post #215 of 225 Old 05-02-2007, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kimgkimg View Post

Well for me it's not really about the cost, it's more about the principle. I'd just assume not get screwed, and that's just what these projector manufacturers are doing.

Thats a pretty Whack-Tacular arguement you've aligned yourself with.

You're choosing to have an absolute rubbish picture, and a big one at that, because you think there is a big bulb conspiracy going on that you don't want to be a part of. So instead you buy junk. The picture sucks, and when I say sucks I don't mean "it has a few flaws"....I mean it flat-out *sucks*.

After a while you'll get used to the size....it'll take about a week...then suddenly you'll start to notice how bad the picture is.....how much detail you can't see, how much brightness dropoff you get at the corners, how awful the hot-spotting is, the ultra low contrast level obscuring every hint of shadow detail. Your $500 PJ will look 10 times worse than the cheapest LCD flatpanel that WalMart sells...

But hey, at least the replacement bulb will be cheap...assuming of course, you don't throw the PJ in the trash by then and get yourself something that actually throws a pleasing image.

I'll say it again...the Yugo syndrome at work. I dont believe anyone who bought a Yugo was ever happy with it, but it sure was cheap huh!

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post #216 of 225 Old 05-02-2007, 03:14 PM
 
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Ah, Rusch, you slay me. Don't be too hard on LL. They'll be coming out with a 720p, 2000:1 CR, DLP unit for $3000 right about the time that Infocus makes a 5400p, 20,000:1 CR, LED projector for $500. But the LL lamps will be cheap.
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post #217 of 225 Old 05-03-2007, 02:47 PM
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The eVo v1.1 has an impressive list of specifications. The specification that IS NOT shown is the contrast ratio. Also note the lack of response time for the LCD panel. Those figures are pretty important in my experience.

Enjoy.

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post #218 of 225 Old 05-03-2007, 03:01 PM
 
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Yep. The marketing department showed supreme wisdom in NOT listing the eVo's 100:1 CR, which was phenomenal...

...back in 1984.
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post #219 of 225 Old 05-03-2007, 04:25 PM
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I think the EvO gives you everything you should expect from blasting light through a LCD panel from a portable dvd player.
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post #220 of 225 Old 05-07-2007, 12:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Yep. The marketing department showed supreme wisdom in NOT listing the eVo's 100:1 CR, which was phenomenal...

...back in 1984.

I would buy this projector, if it was $199, or less. I would get it for my kids room.
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post #221 of 225 Old 05-07-2007, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by dysfunction26 View Post

I would buy this projector, if it was $199, or less. I would get it for my kids room.

Isn't technology wonderful!! You've hit the nail squarely on the head with this one, although the price point you've set is probably a hundred bucks lower than it needs to be RIGHT NOW. Real projector prices have fallen so quickly over the last couple years that Lumenlabs PJ just isn't the bargain it would be since mainstream projectors of MUCH HIGHER PICTURE QUALITY have dropped so much in price.

Lumenlabs is stuck with a single unique selling position. Cost of bulb replacement. Focusing (no pun intended) so strongly on that single issue will probably not be enough to sustain their market. It's my opinion that there's more at play here than just the cost of the bulb. Other manufacturers would surely introduce such a projector if results were truly acceptable to a mass market. The lack of same (lumenlab and Hasbro excepted) says one of two things:

1. Cheaper bulbs don't produce adequate (mass marketable) results.

2. We're gonna copy the HP model of inkjet printers. Give away the product and stiff you on the 'consumables'. This fits in with conspiracy guy's view that the bulb manufacturers are to blame, but if this is the case then it must have started way back in the days of OHP and classroom projectors. I tend to believe that HP and other inkjet manufacturers are abusing us like the guy who thinks the bulb manufacturers are gaming us, but have no proof (although I bet such proof exists for the inkjet example). I hate to feed into bulb conspiracy guy's fantasies, but if you look at the inkjet example, can somebody/anybody(?) tell me why there's no 'hasbro' or 'lumenlab' equivalent in the inkjet market? Wouldn't a company willing to produce an inkjet printer that used a cheaper (perhaps even with slightly less quality) ink rocket to success? I'd gladly pay two to three times the cost of the current inkjet line (which wouldn't be much since they practically give away inkjet printers nowadays) if I knew I could get ink refills at a fair price. There's no technical reason this can't/isn't being done, so it makes me wonder why we don't have that option. Surely there's a startup somewhere that could ride such a wave to huge success yet it's nowhere to be found. Curious indeed.


Enjoy

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post #222 of 225 Old 05-09-2007, 07:50 PM
 
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I can buy an Infocus IN72 projector for about $400, I'd rather get that and pay an extra $100 for the Best Buy 4 year warranty. It's the same price as buying one of these cheapies with less than 10% of the PQ.
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post #223 of 225 Old 05-09-2007, 08:41 PM
 
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Saw an eVo at a shop yesterday for $200. Probably could have got it for $150 or even less.

After consideration about buying it for my 9 year-old son's room, I decided not to torture him with it. Better to just go the $3 Freshnel lens and a cardboard box around a 13" TV for better PQ. To hell with the cheap bulbs.
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post #224 of 225 Old 05-11-2007, 07:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder696969 View Post

Saw an eVo at a shop yesterday for $200. Probably could have got it for $150 or even less.

After consideration about buying it for my 9 year-old son's room, I decided not to torture him with it. Better to just go the $3 Freshnel lens and a cardboard box around a 13" TV for better PQ. To hell with the cheap bulbs.


LOL. I think $200 is a fair price, for a new one. As long as it comes with 1 free replacement bulb.
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post #225 of 225 Old 10-09-2007, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timtimes View Post

Lumenlabs is stuck with a single unique selling position. Cost of bulb replacement. Focusing (no pun intended) so strongly on that single issue will probably not be enough to sustain their market. It's my opinion that there's more at play here than just the cost of the bulb. Other manufacturers would surely introduce such a projector if results were truly acceptable to a mass market. The lack of same (lumenlab and Hasbro excepted) says one of two things:

1. Cheaper bulbs don't produce adequate (mass marketable) results.

2. We're gonna copy the HP model of inkjet printers. Give away the product and stiff you on the 'consumables'. This fits in with conspiracy guy's view that the bulb manufacturers are to blame, but if this is the case then it must have started way back in the days of OHP and classroom projectors. I tend to believe that HP and other inkjet manufacturers are abusing us like the guy who thinks the bulb manufacturers are gaming us, but have no proof (although I bet such proof exists for the inkjet example). I hate to feed into bulb conspiracy guy's fantasies, but if you look at the inkjet example, can somebody/anybody(?) tell me why there's no 'hasbro' or 'lumenlab' equivalent in the inkjet market? Wouldn't a company willing to produce an inkjet printer that used a cheaper (perhaps even with slightly less quality) ink rocket to success? I'd gladly pay two to three times the cost of the current inkjet line (which wouldn't be much since they practically give away inkjet printers nowadays) if I knew I could get ink refills at a fair price. There's no technical reason this can't/isn't being done, so it makes me wonder why we don't have that option. Surely there's a startup somewhere that could ride such a wave to huge success yet it's nowhere to be found. Curious indeed.

Hey there, it's conspiracy guy again (not sure how I earned that title, but whatever.) Well bulbs never cost that much before in projection equipment, why the sudden spike now? Has 'bulb technology' advanced to the point where cost of materials has made it that much more expensive to produce? How can DIY'ers replace/hack their existing multi-hundred $$$ lamps with off-the-shelf metal halide projection bulbs and get great results for $45 if technically it's not possible to produce the same image quality for less money?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=59091

I was never claiming that LL had a great product, but I was saying they were heading in the right direction. We just need one major PJ manufacturer to break ranks and use commonly available lamps, like Kodak is currently trying to do in the the inkjet market BTW. Kodak is selling a line of printers now that use inkjet cartridges which cost less than $10. The printers cost more because they are not being subsidized as much by the ink revenue stream, but this is better for the consumer in the longrun. Also, I'm using an Epson R260 with 3rd party refillable pigment-ink cartridges for about 1/10th the cost of genuine Epson ink with better results. So you can say it's a conspiracy 'theory', but plain evidence says otherwise.
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