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post #91 of 1243 Old 06-20-2007, 09:47 PM
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Very detailed review. You should move it to the new review section.

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post #92 of 1243 Old 06-20-2007, 10:03 PM
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I didn't know I could move things! I'll just repost it there too.
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post #93 of 1243 Old 06-20-2007, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KossmanAudio View Post


Conclusion:
The W500 is an excellent value. The picture quality is better than the Optoma HD70 with better black levels and contrast, very good color accuracy, and excellent detail. The DLP projectors have a foot up in terms of sharpness, but the HQV scaler in the W500 is a HUGE asset for anyone who watches a lot of SD material on DVD or cable/satellite TV.

Oh snap! Thanks for the review. Better than the HD70 huh? I watch a lot of Speed tv (F1, Motogp, Touring car) that could come in handy.

How is the side lens shifting? Would I be able to place the projector 2 feet off center at 12 feet for a 92" image?

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post #94 of 1243 Old 06-20-2007, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KossmanAudio View Post

I didn't know I could move things! I'll just repost it there too.

I would think so. I don't see why not. There isn't any PJ reviews there at the moment.

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post #95 of 1243 Old 06-20-2007, 10:51 PM
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the lens shift diagram in the manual literally makes no sence to me. It say you can go up and down +/- 110%. Which i take to mean that you can have 100% of the image above the centerline + 10% of black wall. That seems to be true to life from what I have tried. You deffinitly can't move it 110% of the screen height above the initial position. So on a 45" tall screen (92" diag) the highest you can go is having the bottom edge of the screen 4.5" above the centerline of the lens. Add a 5" ceiling mount and a couple inches for the projector itself and I'm guessing you could start about a foot from the ceiling. I haven't actually ceiling mounted it, just had it sitting on a chair in the front row of our demo room.

the W10000 claims to have +/- 100% lens shift, which should be less than the W500, but I haven't had any problems setting up a W10000 or PE8720.

as for side to side, it says +/- 48.8%. This is the part I can't understand. The diagram shows more like +/-25%. So a 92" screen is 80" wide. I'm going to go with half of the 48.8 = 24.4% which gives 19.5" to either side. That's not quite 2 ft, but its only my guess. Next time i turn it on, i'll give it a try.

keep in mind that the lens shift joystick moves in a circle. So you can't go all the way to the side and all the way to the top at the same time.
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post #96 of 1243 Old 06-20-2007, 10:54 PM
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Just wondering, how many hours on the bulb? Any difference as it broke in? I am wondering how you managed to get better black levels than the HD70....I have both here and I found the HD70 to be better in the dark scenes. It makes me want to break out the W500 again just to see if I am crazy, LOL.
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post #97 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 06:49 AM
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The bulb is brand new. I don't have an HD70 open now, but I've installed several of them. Try setting the black level setting to 7.5 IRE which is what NTSC uses. I don't know why they call come preset to 0 IRE.
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post #98 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 08:26 AM
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Well I'm very dissapointed to hear the lens shift does not work very well for a coffee table mount. I currently have DLP I was going to return that is setup on the lower shelf of a coffee table. I wanted the added flexibility of lens shift because I tend to move my projector from my living room - bedroom. If this can't work on a low table..... I think this W500 is off my shortlist. It's a shame, I was so excited when I heard about this model.
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post #99 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 08:46 AM
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Keep in mind my coffee table mount is extremely low....it's only about 2 inches from the ground. Up on top might be manageable. Or you could try mounting it behind and above your position, it's flexible in that case.
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post #100 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdvideo View Post

Keep in mind my coffee table mount is extremely low....it's only about 2 inches from the ground. Up on top might be manageable. Or you could try mounting it behind and above your position, it's flexible in that case.


Do you think it would work 8''-12'' off the ground?? I could possibly get it to that height.
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post #101 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 09:52 AM
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Even with a 12" coffee table I think you would have to use some keystone. Its really not the end of the world, most of your video is going to be scalled anyways. Especially if you are using anything except 0% overscan, you are scaling the video regardless of keystone. We also have an Optoma DV10 demo (great for taking to clients homes, with the built-in dvd player) which has way too much offset for a coffee table. You bascially have to put it on the floor.

I just measured the horizontal shift. with an approx 82" wide picture, I could move it a total of about 45" from one extream to the other, which is basically 22" either way from the center position. So their 48.8% rating is the maximum from one side to the other, divide that by two to see how far it will go from the center. This max lens shift only works if you aren't using any vertical lens shift. With full vertical lens shift, there is very little horizontal adjustment.
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post #102 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey View Post

Large offset like cheaper DLP PJ's (HD70/HD1000u) benefits floor mount. Small offset benefits inverted ceiling or inverted shelf-mount (LCD's)

Large offsets get installed as ceiling mount most of the time. Rarely does anyone setup their HD1000 or HD70 low enough to use upright.

The smaller offsets are good for shelf mounting.

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post #103 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 02:43 PM
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Well now I'm even more excited, particularly with the PQ review. I'm a bit disappointed in the limited lens shift, but I recently came across a platform on telescopic legs that would like work quite well behind my seat (max. ht. of 56 inches from the ground--would that work with the shift as described?).

The HQV processing is as advertised? (i.e.--it's not marketing mumbo-jumbo?). If so (and it appears that way from the review--thanks, BTW, KossmanAudio), does it work with the component inputs (my DVD player is reasonably well rated as an interlaced player, but only fair as a prog scan player)? I understand it would not be nearly as good as a 480i signal via HDMI, but I would like it to work via component.

At the available street prices, I can't see how BenQ cannot take a sizable chunk of market share in Canada for entry level 720p projectors.
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post #104 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 03:09 PM
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I purchased a Toshiba HD-A2 not only to play HD-DVD, but also because it's supposed to be one of the best upconverting DVD players on the market. Any idea if it or the HQV processor would do a better job?
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post #105 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 03:17 PM
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You almost always get superior results upconverting on the optical device. The Tosh A1 that I own is a fantastic upconverting DVD player, I can't imaging it could get better without using a HTPC and introducing artificial sharpening.

HQV to me sounds very much like marketing speak designed to make Cable and Satellite signals "watchable" on a big, big screen.

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post #106 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 04:27 PM
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I suppose it is good to have both (a good dvd player and HQV on the PJ) since you can use the PJ to convert SD signals from your cable box.
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post #107 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

HQV to me sounds very much like marketing speak designed to make Cable and Satellite signals "watchable" on a big, big screen.

I think there are a lot of people in the >$3K forum that would disagree with you. The HQV is pretty much the best scalar/deinterlacer on the market right now... topping anything from Faroudja or Pixelworks. Pretty much all the highest rated standalone video processors and upconverting DVD players use it including the >$1,000+ Denon DVD players and the Toshiba HD-AX2 HD-DVD player (highest score ever on the secrets reviews).

Having this built directly into the projector is a huge advantage in my opinion as all your sources will get the benefit. And its advantages aren't just on SD and DVD. It also does a great job processing HD sources as well. The only thing you have to do is make sure you get the sources to the projector using the highest quality connection (HDMI or component) and using the least amount of processing in the device (480i for DVD). Not many players output 480i over HDMI but there are a few, including the Oppo 970.

Benq should be applauded for including the HQV. Most other projectors that use it are not sold in this forum, let alone list for $1000.
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post #108 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 04:39 PM
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Should the BenQ HQV processing be available via its component inputs? If so, then the need to get an unconverting SD DVD player is greatly reduced, is it not?
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post #109 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 06:07 PM
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If properly implemented, HQV should process all inputs including component. So yes, assuming you have a good quality DVD player that can output a decent 480i image, you shouldn't need an upconverting DVD player.
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post #110 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 07:00 PM
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Really nice review, but a few odd statements. I hope you don't think Im being too nitpicky.

"One of the features I was most looking forward to on the W500 was the manual lens shift. This is a feature normally reserved for $3000+ projectors."

Just about every single LCD for the last 3 years has had lens shift starting with the Sanyo z2 and a pansonic ae500. All of these were sub- $3k Canadian. I think you meant "optical" and not "manual".

"One great feature of the W500 is that it will accept 480i on HDMI. "

This really isnt a unique feature. It's one of the reasons people buy the Oppo 970 because it is one of the few DVD players that can pass along 480i over HDMI.

"The W10000 for example will only take 480p (or higher) on HDMI so the DVD player has to deinterlace the video, which adds another layer of processing."

Thats not really true. it just means the DVD player is doing the deinterlacing in place of the projector. So it doesnt really add anything. It replaces. Now the DVD player may not do as good a job as the projector, but that is different from add more processing.


Please update us when you calibrate and tell us if that made the image better. Thanks again for the review!
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post #111 of 1243 Old 06-21-2007, 08:32 PM
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Does BenQ impement some sort of Panny-like "smooth screen tech"? This is the third time I have read about the minimal SDE (screen door effect for the newbs) and I was wondering if BenQ was using something secial on their LCD debut.?.

Also, what are we looking at for bulb replacement costs? I have yet to see anybody comment on this.
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post #112 of 1243 Old 06-22-2007, 02:06 PM
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There are lots of projectors that don't accept 480i over HDMI, the BenQ PE7700, PE8720, and W10000 at the very least. A lot of DVD players have rather bad video processers, including deinterlacing and the so-called "chroma-bug". So if you have a good scaler, either in your projector or seperatly, its best to run the DVD output in its native format, 480i. If your dvd player makes a mistake doing the deinterlacing, you are now sending a bad input signal to a good scaler, which won't be able to fix the jagged edges or messed up color. Some top end scalers will re-interlace the image, so they can deinterlace it properly and then scale it, but thats not common.

True gwlaw99, I saw looking forward to trying the lens shift. The fact that is was manual wan't an advantage. We mainly sell DLP projectors, they generally have much better picture quality, but rarely have lens shift. The 8-bit video processor on the HD70 really holds back the picture quality though.

The best thing you can do is try out the scaler in your dvd player and see what setting look best to you. The scaler in the Scientific Atlanta HD PVR we have is horrible. If you zoom in on many SD letterbox channles, the deinterlacing can be horrible. But this is getting off topic.

I don't know how much bulbs are, probably the same price as all the other BenQ bubls. They tend to be all in the same price range.
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post #113 of 1243 Old 06-22-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KossmanAudio View Post

The 8-bit video processor on the HD70 really holds back the picture quality though.

Please link some data on this. Since DVDs and HDTV are 8 bit sources, "really holds back" really means what in real world results?

I ask because this has already been discussed ad nauseum for some time now but by all means better information is always good.

If remember correctly, the really visible differences come into play when you have 14 to 16 bit processing.

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post #114 of 1243 Old 06-22-2007, 03:27 PM
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"A lot of DVD players have rather bad video processers, including deinterlacing and the so-called "chroma-bug".

As far as I know the chroma bug has all but dissapeared and DVD players with faroudja DCDi motion adaptive deinterlacers are fairly cheap (although the macroblocking bug may crop up on certain displays).

The Benq has the same Epson made LCD panels than any other modern LCD so, video processing aside, if you liked the Benq you should be happy with the picture quality of the Sanyo z5, Panasonic Ax100, or Epson 400 all of which have lens shift. The Benq is clearly the better value, however, with it's price and HQV processing.

As far as the HD70 is concerned, how high do you have brilliant color turned up. Most people have found that any any tonal gradation issues were not with the 8 bit processing but with brilliant color turned above 2.
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post #115 of 1243 Old 06-22-2007, 04:36 PM
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I have found the Faroudja to not scale very smoothly.

I have read reviews as recently as last year about dvd players still having chroma problems. You can google "dvd player benchmark" to find some good reviews.

Saying that all projectors have the same LCD panel and therefore look the same totaly disregards the rest of the optical path. Better optics look beter. Also bulb type, video processor and software, auto iris, etc. I'm not saying the W500 is the best projector in the world but it does have a really good scaler. I don't personally like Auto-iris in general, I'd much rather have a good DLP projector with higher true contrast, but they cost more.

I haven't sold an HD70 recently, most customers opted to spend a bit more and get a much better PE7700, so I can't recall what setting my customers were using. When someone is getting a budget projector, they aren't exactly lining up to pay 30% more for calibration. You shouldn't even do a color balance for a couple hundred hours anyway as the lamp output changes.
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post #116 of 1243 Old 06-23-2007, 10:28 AM
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pls calibrate setings benq w500 ?? britghes atd..
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post #117 of 1243 Old 06-23-2007, 10:57 AM
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"I have found the Faroudja to not scale very smoothly."

Hmm, well most people regard it very highly except in the odd case of macroblocking. I agree that the Silicon Optix HQV is probably better though

"I have read reviews as recently as last year about dvd players still having chroma problems. You can google "dvd player benchmark" to find some good reviews."

All the 2007 DVD players tested by Secrets do not have the chroma bug . Some have it with the 4:2:2 cadence but that is rarely used.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...h&articles=133

I'm surprised anyone is buying the PE7700 after the bulb failure fiasco. It also doesn't have close to the black levels as the Mitsubishi HC3000.

You don't have to pay hundreds of dollars for an AVIA disk to do basic calibration.

"Saying that all projectors have the same LCD panel and therefore look the same totaly disregards the rest of the optical path. Better optics look beter. Also bulb type, video processor and software, auto iris, etc. I'm not saying the W500 is the best projector in the world but it does have a really good scaler. I don't personally like Auto-iris in general, I'd much rather have a good DLP projector with higher true contrast, but they cost more."

I would be the Sanyo Panasonic and Epson projectors all have equal quality lenses as the Bwnq. Clearly the HQV is far better processing that any of them have and together with the price make the Benq the best deal. I like DLP better as well, but if you like the image of the Benq, there is no reason you shouldn't like the image on any of the other LCDs I mentioned.
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post #118 of 1243 Old 06-23-2007, 12:45 PM
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Just received a reply from Art @ projectorreviews.com and he said he spoke to BenQ at infocomm the other day and they were backordered. Looks like late July to early August until his review.
Should be interesting to see how he regards it to the Z5 and the Epson 500. They can all be had 1K, give or take 100 bucks.
Personally, I am hoping for a slightly brighter pic than the Z and slightly less SDE. Highly unlikely though if they do indeed use the same 3LCD panels as the Epson and Z5.
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post #119 of 1243 Old 06-23-2007, 01:03 PM
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Don't forget the new Sony VPL-AW15 too. It is also in the same price range. I expect the Sony might vary a little more from the Sanyo/BenQ/Epsons as they are the only 720p LCD which doesn't use Epson panels... the question is it will vary for the better or worse! Mine arrives Tuesday so I'll do my best to provide impressions.
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post #120 of 1243 Old 06-27-2007, 09:42 AM
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I'd a Sony HS 51 and then the Panny ae900; this pj looks almost like the panny, including the lens cap and the H/V lens shift mechanism. The Sony was not bright but had a very natural picture while my panny had some vb but much brighter; the panny was a tad quieter in low mode.

I would consider the benq (also had a Benq pb6200 DLP at one time), though vb seemed more of a qc issue with Epson panels while Sony use its own. The Aw15 looked about just as bright (or dark) as the other Sony models, from Art's review.

Overall, I still find DLP gives a more 3-D look, but I'm still susceptible to some RBE. My current pj is an Infoucs IN72. Would love to have a Beqn H80 except for the pricepoint...

So many choices.

Cheers.
panny ae100 --> benq pb6200 --> sony hs51 --> Infocus In72 --> panny ae900 --> ???
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