HD70 Tweakers Thread. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #451 of 2474 Old 10-23-2006, 11:33 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
krasmuzik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NewPort, VA
Posts: 11,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
fair enough and accepted

Understand that there is nothing a calibrator has more valuable than his reputation - that is way more valuable than any of his gear.

This is not a gamerz forum where such behavior is tolerated and encouraged. At least not if you want professionals in here that know what they are doing helping you to see what you are missing in uncalibrated images - and all it cost is some marketed brightness/contrast.

if your personal reference is brightness/contrast - then what is there to tweak? The projector is designed with presets to maximize those.
krasmuzik is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #452 of 2474 Old 10-23-2006, 11:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tattootearz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey Kraz, I have a thread I'd like some feedback from you on... It's actually on the topic of tweaking the HD70.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=740295

I'd really appreciate it man. Thanks a ton.
tattootearz is offline  
post #453 of 2474 Old 10-23-2006, 01:05 PM
Member
 
WyattERP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post


Wyatt,

Screen recommendations really need more information. You room, lighting conditions, size, viewing habits, etc. all play a role in choosing the right screen. Also, budget is a factor. For a general guide I prefer white type screens if you have dark walls, ceiling, etc and total light control. Gray screens with some gain for white walls, ceiling, etc. and will be viewing with ambient light. If you mention some of the factors I'll give you some more specific suggestions.

Bob

Basement setup, plenty of light control, it's unfinished, so I have cement walls, ceiling studs, except I hung lots of black curtains around the front of the screen. I would say 40% movies, 40% X360 gaming; 20% HDTV viewing. Right now I have a matte white screen with 1.0 (maybe 1.1) gain...homemade!

I would say a white-type screen probably works, but I wonder if I should get matte again, or go for high-contrast white (1.5-1.6 gain)?

Also, to keep on target for this tweakers thread. I am gaining "peace" with my new HD70, starting to really enjoy this picture without gunning for color accuracy - I doubt I've seen D65 on any TV screen in my life, so it's not like my past experiences are driving me to that stringent tolerance.

I pretty much have it set close to default, bumped down BC to 2 for most inputs, and backed off the green gain a little bit (and bias a notch). I also prefer video or graphics degamma as film (or is it called cinema?) is way too dark for most viewing. I set the user preset to what I liked and left Cinema at the default, and the tuned setting is drastically better, with great contrast and vibrant color (indoubtedly innaccurate I am sure). The PJ is growing on me big time. When it comes to true HD viewing, this thing blows my 4805 out of the water on resolution alone. I think we all have come to an agreement that this PJ was built to perform a certain way, and I am enjoying it for what it is.

A few notes:

Component Input is difficult to nail down. Colors are hard to get right (as in not blown out), although I think I am close with my choices.

HDMI has a much better color response, and was easier to get looking natural and sharp. I spent a couple hours watching several DVDs and flipping back and forth between HDMI and Component inputs (my Oppo was connected both ways to the PJ) and thought that HDMI looked much better overall. Occasionally I felt like the component was more colorful in the dark scenes, but then realized it was somewhat overstaturated in the bright scenes.

VGA connection...this connection appears to be the easiest to get right. I simply turned BC to 2 or 3 and bumped green back a few clicks, picked the right degamma (I believe I picked graphics). DVDs looked pretty impressive over VGA, making me giddy about potentially picking up the X360 HD-DVD player if the reviews are positive!

A note of degamma: Video mode can be almost too much in some movies, allowing that grainy noisy look to shine through, but works well for TV (especially darker TV shows). Just adjust your brightness and contrast appropriately. I did notice, however, that there is a big difference in Video/PC and Graphic modes with regards to color. I found Video/PC made skin tones too yellow at times, while Graphic modes appeared much better. So my choice for degamma is generally Graphic mode.

Anyways, that was a very non-technical tweak guide. Bottom line is that I think it is easy to back off greens, get great skin tones and good performance from this thing. I still have my gripes with some crushed blacks here and there, but generally things are looking really good for me.
WyattERP is offline  
post #454 of 2474 Old 10-23-2006, 07:41 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
guitarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Bay Area San Francisco.
Posts: 12,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
"I pretty much have it set close to default, bumped down BC to 2 for most inputs"

Interesting, for green I bumped up the tint towards green by 2 numbers. On my machine this makes flesh tones look excellent, less red. I'm watching MNF right now and the little cute girl that Joe Namath wanted to put a smooch on looks excellent.

Tom/guitarman
VideoDementia

Are you twisted also?
http://www.videodementia.com/sales/TomWithWires.jpg
guitarman is offline  
post #455 of 2474 Old 10-23-2006, 08:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HeadRusch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 41
I was watching a bit of MNF tonight as well..which is odd, since I think football sucks
But man in HD.....I was watching that, and I was watching some MTV HD, and I was watching some tigers in India that eat..well..Indians. Betcha they dont care about no D65 Greyscale tracking

Anyhow, my story on Component is not the same as HDMI...

A couple of tips: Do not, do NOT use the GRAPHICS gamma setting. While watching that India show I was playing with the gamma....setting it to GRAPHICS caused an entire treeline to disappear into white sky. Granted this is the component input from my Motorola box, and I haven't taken the time to connect the DVD player to the components first to do color/tint/contrast and the like, but graphics was definately bad, totally eliminating a ton of detail. (and last week I thought it was all cool).

CSI however had crazy insane colors....David Carouso's hair was like..blonde-orange or something....I need to AVIA that input even just to get the colors a bit more neutral, I know changing source will change the settings (DVD to Motorola box) but it does need a bit of help.

For me its either FILM or VIDEO.....depending on the show.....PC makes everything look washed out and graphics, well, its blowing out whites big-time.

With MNF, the cowboys jerseys were always electric white....I was definately losing detail, even with Film gamma....electric whites. I switched to some movies on UHD and HBO.....whites continued to be electric. On stained glass windows all I saw was white. On a backlit white sign, almost all of the black lettering disappeared, only white in its place. I was like "ok thats not right"....
The blown out white syndrome which has been discussed.

I was watching some INHD and a Sarah McLaughlan (whatever) concert...lousy footage, BTW....lots of out of focus shots and soft shots (not HD cameras all around?), but mostly I hated that whenever the screen was black...it was grey, not black..at least not dark black, and not dark black looks like LCD to me....it makes me think I'm watching a low contrast PJ. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

I can't seem to help myself....I need to turn this thing into RGBRGB again....gotta get rid of that white segment...its messing with my head. Tomorrow, we paint.

I previously only had 65" of HD to watch...and while it was good, it was still a TV. On the 106" HD is like...bigger than life size. Reflections in peoples EYES are so detailed you can see the cameras and crew in them on a tight shot.

Thats F'ed up

Xbox Live / PS3 / Steam: HeadRusch1
Keeping the world safe from the evil antics of Bernie Tanaka and Mel Fujitsu since 1986

HeadRusch is offline  
post #456 of 2474 Old 10-23-2006, 08:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
guitarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Bay Area San Francisco.
Posts: 12,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Don't mess with the white, you'll lose the plasma effect. Which sets this projector apart. Man I love this freaking thing.

Tom/guitarman
VideoDementia

Are you twisted also?
http://www.videodementia.com/sales/TomWithWires.jpg
guitarman is offline  
post #457 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 04:20 AM
Adi
Senior Member
 
Adi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Don't mess with the white, you'll lose the plasma effect. Which sets this projector apart. Man I love this freaking thing.

LMAO.
Adi is offline  
post #458 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 04:44 AM
 
blitz6speed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I had a friend over today and thats exactly what he said about my HD70. That it was basically like having a 92" plasma on my wall. LOVE IT!
blitz6speed is offline  
post #459 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 05:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HeadRusch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Sorry chums, tonight we turn out the light on the white.

I'll try to paint tonight, let it dry, reassemble and test tomorrow for the weekend.

Tom: Worst Case Scenario is the thing turns into a smoldering pile of junk.
Then, we'll talk about those DC3 Optomas coming down the line

Xbox Live / PS3 / Steam: HeadRusch1
Keeping the world safe from the evil antics of Bernie Tanaka and Mel Fujitsu since 1986

HeadRusch is offline  
post #460 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 06:11 AM
Newbie
 
pipp33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Sorry chums, tonight we turn out the light on the white.

I'll try to paint tonight, let it dry, reassemble and test tomorrow for the weekend.

Tom: Worst Case Scenario is the thing turns into a smoldering pile of junk.
Then, we'll talk about those DC3 Optomas coming down the line


Look forward to hearing your results! I'm still on the fence about it. Everyone says no prob on reversing it, but after reading that Cyber (I believe it was Cyber) pressed a little too hard and broke the color wheel while trying to get the paint off I started having reservations. When you post your findings do you mind throwing something in about what it did or did not do for flesh tones?

-D
pipp33 is offline  
post #461 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 06:35 AM
Member
 
WyattERP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HeadRush...

How bout adjusting Brightness/Contrast a little then? If you have blown out whites, then maybe your contrast is too high? I find that I have to adjust both every time I change degamma settings. I disagree with u saying "do NOT use the GRAPHICS gamma setting". It's not like it hurts anything to try! It also seems like there is a quality control issue with the HD70, it seems that the consistency from unit to unit is lacking. With all the wacky results and many different settings posted, I'm thinking this might be the case. It shouldn't happen, but oh well. I will pop in DVE tonight and check out the contrast bars (the ones you use for DLP displays and ensure that I can see seperation between the white end of the spectrum.
WyattERP is offline  
post #462 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 09:03 AM
 
BobL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 52
I did the compponent input in with degamma 'film'. Haven't done the video yet. Here are the settings.

Mode - User
Contrast - (4)
Brightness - (-2)
Color - (-9)
Tint - 0
Sharpness - 0
Degamma -Film
Brilliant Color - 0
True Vivid - 0
Color Temp - 0
AI -Off
Color Space - YCbCr

Red Gain - (-2)
Green Gain - (-2)
Blue Gain - (1)
Red Bias - (-2)
Green Bias - 0
Blue Bias - (2)

Wyatt,

I'd use a white type screen with a little gain 1.3 or 1.4 for your environment unless going with <92" screen then I'd look at something like a Stewart grayhawk RS. If you are going larger than 110" then I'd consider a bigger gain like a silverstar. The Da-lite high power isn't the best choice for this PJ with its offset.

Hope this helps.

Bob
BobL is offline  
post #463 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 09:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HeadRusch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyattERP View Post

HeadRush...

Well its HeadRusCh but I think you mean me, right?

Quote:


How bout adjusting Brightness/Contrast a little then? If you have blown out whites, then maybe your contrast is too high?

Thats a bit of it, yes, but adjusting Contrast back down to zero I still saw the whites frying out a bit...and I don't really want to turn off BC, even tho I run it at 1 or 2, tops.

Tonight I'm going to hook a DVD Player up to the component inputs and run Avia to at least get a baseline and see how much it changes when I plug back in my Comcast DVR box.

Quote:


I find that I have to adjust both every time I change degamma settings. I disagree with u saying "do NOT use the GRAPHICS gamma setting". It's not like it hurts anything to try!

True, I'm only passing along my experience with it...it killed an entire ridgeline of trees....ie: it totally changed the image I was looking at. Having said that, I don't really dig running with that setting.

Quote:


happen, but oh well. I will pop in DVE tonight and check out the contrast bars (the ones you use for DLP displays and ensure that I can see seperation between the white end of the spectrum.

I'll be doing some tweaking if I have some time.....but I'm still having an issue with the contrast. A couple of times last night I saw black crush watching SKULLS 3. Dark details disappeared and too many people were wearing nothing but flat-black clothes with no detail. Hence, a component calibration is definately in order, but black is still awfully bright.

Goodbye white segment. I'll take CH's experience seriously, and be very careful with my tinkering.

Xbox Live / PS3 / Steam: HeadRusch1
Keeping the world safe from the evil antics of Bernie Tanaka and Mel Fujitsu since 1986

HeadRusch is offline  
post #464 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 10:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
genro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

I did the compponent input in with degamma 'film'. Haven't done the video yet. Here are the settings.

Mode - User
Contrast - (4)
Brightness - (-)
Color - (-9)
Tint - 0
Sharpness - 0
Degamma -Film
Brilliant Color - 0
True Vivid - 0
Color Temp - 0
AI -Off
Color Space - YCbCr

Red Gain - (-2)
Green Gain - (-2)
Blue Gain - (1)
Red Bias - (-2)
Green Bias - 0
Blue Bias - (2)

Wyatt,

I'd use a white type screen with a little gain 1.3 or 1.4 for your environment unless going with <92" screen then I'd look at something like a Stewart grayhawk RS. If you are going larger than 110" then I'd consider a bigger gain like a silverstar. The Da-lite high power isn't the best choice for this PJ with its offset.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Bob- thanks for all your work. One question, for Brightness you have "(-)" as the value...I'm guessing you forgot a number somewhere?

Also obviously the settings vary for each environment and projector, but I tried your settings then bumped up Color Temp to 1 (whites were pinkish at 0 with your settings) and Brilliant Color to 2 or 3 (just produced a brighter more pleasing image to me). I am very happy so far after those adjustments just by going by eyesight.

Thanks again,
Rob
genro is offline  
post #465 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 10:59 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
krasmuzik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NewPort, VA
Posts: 11,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Bright whites are actually cyan when you turn on the BC - so a calibrated image will look pinkish in comparison. This is why you need to look at secondary colors - your eyes are white adaptable - the brightest white you see will set the color of white - and anything else is an optical illusion that it is off. However the colors will not adapt- bananas are yellow - not green (at least at my market).
krasmuzik is offline  
post #466 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 11:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
genro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

Bright whites are actually cyan when you turn on the BC - so a calibrated image will look pinkish in comparison. This is why you need to look at secondary colors - your eyes are white adaptable - the colors will not adapt. Bananas are yellow - not green (at least at my market).

You learn something every day

But the whites were pinkish with BC at 0 for me. Then I adjusted Color Temp to 1 to "fix" that. Then after that is when I adjusted BC. Again I realize ymmv, and I probably have never seen a properly calibrated projector but with my precious few minutes during lunch I like these settings so far.
genro is offline  
post #467 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 11:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
krasmuzik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NewPort, VA
Posts: 11,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Which is why I am saying stop looking at whites. Look at the secondary colors on the colorbars. If whites are pinkish - then magenta will be too red. If whites are actually cyanish - then yellow will be too green. That is something your eye easily picks up.
krasmuzik is offline  
post #468 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 11:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
genro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

Which is why I am saying stop looking at whites. Look at the secondary colors on the colorbars. If whites are pinkish - then magenta will be too red. If whites are actually cyanish - then yellow will be too green. That is something your eye easily picks up.

Fair enough, I'll have to check it out again tonight when I get home.

It would be nice to see some screenshots (yes I do realize you can't really make any judgments based off of screenshots) just to show the difference between a calibrated and non-calibrated device (say the same exact HD70). I'm just curious to see the difference visually for us laymen
genro is offline  
post #469 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 11:24 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
krasmuzik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NewPort, VA
Posts: 11,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Calibration charts will have to do from me. Problem is you cannot see the absolute difference without looking on a calibrated monitor.

Here is best way to see the optical illusion.

Throw up your white screen. Stare at it for a long time. Then switch to the other color temps and quickly check them out.

Then do the same thing all over again staring at one of the other color temps - quickly switching to the others.

Your brain will swear that the first one you looked at was white - the others will be wrong. Despite the fact that you just did the opposite experiment proving others are white!

Do this with BC0 and contrast down a bit to avoid the clear segment interfering.

Repeat the experiment using colorbars instead of white screen - and see if you get fooled or not.

I do this with screen samples all the time. DaLite CinemaVision pushes yellowish - DaLite HighContrast CinemaVision pushes cyanish. I can convince anyone at anytime - one or the other is white and the other is wrong.
krasmuzik is offline  
post #470 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 04:24 PM
 
BobL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 52
I just edited the post. Brightness is -2.
BobL is offline  
post #471 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 08:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
guitarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Bay Area San Francisco.
Posts: 12,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

Calibration charts will have to do from me. Problem is you cannot see the absolute difference without looking on a calibrated monitor.

Here is best way to see the optical illusion.

Throw up your white screen. Stare at it for a long time. Then switch to the other color temps and quickly check them out.

Then do the same thing all over again staring at one of the other color temps - quickly switching to the others.

Your brain will swear that the first one you looked at was white - the others will be wrong. Despite the fact that you just did the opposite experiment proving others are white!

Do this with BC0 and contrast down a bit to avoid the clear segment interfering.

Repeat the experiment using colorbars instead of white screen - and see if you get fooled or not.

I do this with screen samples all the time. DaLite CinemaVision pushes yellowish - DaLite HighContrast CinemaVision pushes cyanish. I can convince anyone at anytime - one or the other is white and the other is wrong.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd70crd65k.jpg

Tom/guitarman
VideoDementia

Are you twisted also?
http://www.videodementia.com/sales/TomWithWires.jpg
guitarman is offline  
post #472 of 2474 Old 10-24-2006, 10:07 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
krasmuzik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NewPort, VA
Posts: 11,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Tom

Try taking contrast measures within the sensors range - like a 2' wide image. Your sensor is useless for black measures below 0.1ftL. You can verify if it is in range by seeing if you measure marketed contrast ratio. I have and I know that is not a calibrated number for a flat greyscale - what it appears to be is one with possibly BC3 level white segment with cyan whites. Which as I was saying to genro - that bright white will make every lesser white look pink because it is cyan - and it will make your brite yellows green and magentas purple.

Also try taking the charts off the 20% grid which makes it look flat and hides the red curve - which despite you not saving the chart as a .jpg itself and doing a lousy monitor photo rather than screen capture- I can still see the cyan push in the whites - and I cannot see anything below 30IRE because your chart is cutoff. The eye can see a 3% difference in tracking - so a 20% grid is unreasonable. Use the mousewheel to zoom in so you can see what you are doing when you calibrate.

Anyways what is the point of your chart in response to my saying whites are an optical illusion and you need to look at colors?. Because for some reason you are hiding the color gamut chart that would show what I am trying to get people to see - that the secondary colors shift with the white point shifting - with larger error that is much easier to see than optical white illusions.
krasmuzik is offline  
post #473 of 2474 Old 10-25-2006, 05:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HeadRusch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 9,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Are we still fighting over a projector that wont calibrate to D65 effectively without tradeoffs?
I thought we were past that.

What I'm surprised at is this: Where are the Mits 1000 guys?? I figured by now this thread would be dead and everyone would be talking about their 1000's with the free bulb. Anyone do a shootout, how do the two compare? Does it suffer from the same issues as the HD70 as it also has the clear segment on the color wheel, etc. ????

Does it suffer the same fate when calibrated to D65?

Xbox Live / PS3 / Steam: HeadRusch1
Keeping the world safe from the evil antics of Bernie Tanaka and Mel Fujitsu since 1986

HeadRusch is offline  
post #474 of 2474 Old 10-25-2006, 07:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SirDrexl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Are we still fighting over a projector that wont calibrate to D65 effectively without tradeoffs?
I thought we were past that.

What I'm surprised at is this: Where are the Mits 1000 guys?? I figured by now this thread would be dead and everyone would be talking about their 1000's with the free bulb. Anyone do a shootout, how do the two compare? Does it suffer from the same issues as the HD70 as it also has the clear segment on the color wheel, etc. ????

Does it suffer the same fate when calibrated to D65?

I don't know. It seems that nobody cares about the free lamp. They're all just getting the HD70 for less money while they wait for 1080p projectors to come down in price (in which case they won't need the free lamp). Or, if they decide to spend more, they're getting the HC3000u for not much more than the HD1000u. Again, they won't need the free lamp because they'll replace the projector when the lamp goes out anyway.
SirDrexl is offline  
post #475 of 2474 Old 10-25-2006, 08:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
guitarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Bay Area San Francisco.
Posts: 12,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
"Are we still fighting over a projector that wont calibrate to D65 effectively without tradeoffs?
I thought we were past that."

That is an accurate measurment, he's fighting for his life. Me thinks a couple of guys need to re-visit how to set black level with the Accupel Pluge. Last post, I'm not going to get into it.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd70cr.jpg
black/white tuning only also accurate.

Tom/guitarman
VideoDementia

Are you twisted also?
http://www.videodementia.com/sales/TomWithWires.jpg
guitarman is offline  
post #476 of 2474 Old 10-25-2006, 08:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gottahavapj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Uh-Ohhhh
gottahavapj is offline  
post #477 of 2474 Old 10-25-2006, 09:25 AM
Senior Member
 
beagle five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

"Are we still fighting over a projector that wont calibrate to D65 effectively without tradeoffs?
I thought we were past that."

That is an accurate measurment, he's fighting for his life. Me thinks a couple of guys need to re-visit how to set black level with the Accupel Pluge. Last post, I'm not going to get into it.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd70cr.jpg
black/white tuning only also accurate.

it says the blacks are 0,071 and that is pretty bad isnt it?
would like to see the same test with the wheel mod.
beagle five is offline  
post #478 of 2474 Old 10-25-2006, 09:34 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
guitarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Bay Area San Francisco.
Posts: 12,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
That's because the meter is a few feet away. On the tuning side I don't like using the meter too close to the lens, the reading levels jump around too much.

Tom/guitarman
VideoDementia

Are you twisted also?
http://www.videodementia.com/sales/TomWithWires.jpg
guitarman is offline  
post #479 of 2474 Old 10-25-2006, 11:47 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
krasmuzik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NewPort, VA
Posts: 11,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Tom

Where are your RGBCMY plots? You pose as a calibrator with your charts - but using the same software I know what you are leaving out and trying to hide. I have nothing to hide in educating people what white segments do to bright images as far as calibration goes - it is a tradeoff for obtaining marketed specs which are more desirable in a bright room than D65.


I have said the exact same things about the X1/SP4800 white segment - and the SP4805 white peaking - for years - that if people want a calibrated image they need to turn off the white. I have said the exact same things about every biz projector in this forum. I have posted for years reviews that said Infocus does not achieve marketed contrast without white peaking - turn it off it harms the image. It has nothing to do with anything but being a professional calibrator. If BrilliantColor harms brite images in the same manner - I will show people how it does - and how to turn it off.

I assure you I know how to measure marketed contrast - here is my latest track record

box spec measure
Z4 7000:1 7805:1 (auto lamp.iris)
HD70 3000:1 2960:1 (no image AI)
IN72 2000:1 1999:1 (2718:1 white peaking - it measures better than IN76 something marketing does not want you to know since IN76 rates 3000:1 using white peaking and no zoom on lens.)


Considering that years ago when you were posting for calibration help when you tried to learn how to use your ColorFacts- I was the one that answered and helped you learn since I had more experience (being an ColorFacts user since the product first existed) - you don't need to post such inflammatory statements about how I don't know how to measure contrast. I think I know how - and I taught you how to do it years ago on the forum.


Again if you want to be so open about how well it calibrates - then be honest. Show your RGBCMY gamut. Show the 0-100% RGB histogram on a 10% grid. Use the save as jpg feature of your software. Post your settings used to obtain those results. Post a flat line greyscale vs. a popped white greyscale so people know what contrast/brightness vs. D65 tradeoffs are to be made.

To do otherwise is to mislead intentionally for purposes other than showing what you get with a tweaked image. I leave you to your review threads for discussing the marketed advantages of a plasma like pic with a white segment in a brite room. But if in a tweaking/mod thread people I think people deserve to be educated about how to avoid it so they can learn to see how it harms their image.

The fact is the HD70 calibrates perfectly with great HD color if you learn how to manage the white segment by turning down contrast or doing the mod. But for some reason you are bent on preventing people from seeing what a perfect image looks like.
krasmuzik is offline  
post #480 of 2474 Old 10-25-2006, 12:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Brajesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Metro Atlanta
Posts: 5,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Kras, I always read your posts w/interest because you seem to play fair & call it as it is. I have to ask, what would you pick if you had a fully light-controlled room...HD70 (with its limitations), HC3000U, HD1000U (also has white segment), or something else at $1,500 (or less) street price? I'd consider shipping the PJ to you for D65 calibration, but wouldn't want to sacrifice a more pleasing-to-the-eyes image to be slightly off D65. But, the right flesh tones & color palette are most important. I'm looking to upgrade to DLP from my current Panny AE700U LCD, although the reviews & placement flexibility of the PLV-Z5 & AX100U have me reconsidering LCD.

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
Brajesh is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off