HD70 Tweakers Thread. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2474 Old 09-28-2006, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Please respect this thread. Owners only. No talking about pricing, 8bit vs 10bit, HD70 vs A.N.Other PJ etc...

Just talk on getting the best settings for this little beaut.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 2474 Old 09-29-2006, 04:42 PM
 
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Heres my settings.

Just a note, HD70 is table mounted and using a 92" Graywolf II screen.

Under IMAGE:

Mode = Cinema
Contrast = 8
Brightness = 16
Color = 10
Tint = -2
Sharpness = 15

Under Advanced:

Degamma = Film
BrilliantColor = 0
TrueVivid = 0
Color Temp = 1
Image AI = Off
Color Space = YCbCr

Under RGB/Gain/Bias:

Red Gain = 13
Green Gain = 2
Blue Gain = 12
Red Bias = -18
Green Bias = -20
Blue Bias = -15

Under Display:

Native

Calibrated using Avia on the PC running 1280x720 with 1:1 pixel mapping.
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post #3 of 2474 Old 09-30-2006, 11:09 AM
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Hey HD70 owners, what's happening.

If you could have those TPS reports^H^H^H^H^H^H^H post those "best settings" in this thread, that would be super.

Mmmmkay?
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post #4 of 2474 Old 09-30-2006, 05:23 PM
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Blitz, setting BrilliantColor to its lowest setting kinda cripples the color output no?
I thought it was best to leave that slider somewhere in the middle of the range.....

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post #5 of 2474 Old 09-30-2006, 05:39 PM
 
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I find anything other then 0 to be very unpleasing to the eye. BTW, i updated with some more calibration that i did.
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post #6 of 2474 Old 09-30-2006, 05:44 PM
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Just got mine ceiling mounted today, so far I am very impressed. Screen is 106" Da-Lite 1.3 gain and on low cinema setting its plenty bright and contrast is excellent. This is my first digital pj and its replacing a 9" CRT. Tonight I'm going to play around with some settings. Amazing what a thousand bucks will get, I'm in shock right now.
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post #7 of 2474 Old 09-30-2006, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post

Just got mine ceiling mounted today, so far I am very impressed. Screen is 106" Da-Lite 1.3 gain and on low cinema setting its plenty bright and contrast is excellent. This is my first digital pj and its replacing a 9" CRT. Tonight I'm going to play around with some settings. Amazing what a thousand bucks will get, I'm in shock right now.

Now, c'mon...it's not THAT good. But, the price, the price...what can I say?
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post #8 of 2474 Old 09-30-2006, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Blitz, setting BrilliantColor to its lowest setting kinda cripples the color output no?
I thought it was best to leave that slider somewhere in the middle of the range.....

Mine looks great with the stock advanced settings. Film has brilliant color at 3 and Vivid at 1. I just left it there. I turned off Ai and put the PJ in econo mode. From there Avia for the basics. A tip about Avia's brightness pattern. Get close to the screen so that you can barely see the left bar. Get it down to zero dither.

Take a look at a graysteps pattern and tune the Advanced RGB's from there. You want the steps of gray to be steely gray with no color tints. If you see red in the light grays pull red contrast back till gray looks gray. lets say it took 6 clicks, stop and make it just 3 click and inturn increase blue and green by 3 clicks.

Same proceedure for the darker grays. let say you see green, start lowering the green brightness until the grays look gray. lets say it took 4 clicks, stop make it 2 click and inturn increase blue and red by 2 clicks. Go back and re-do the basic brightness and contrast settings. look over the graysteps pattern again. Make more changes with the RGB's if you see color tint. Lastly go back to the basic brightness and contrast and re-check.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd70graysteps.jpg

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post #9 of 2474 Old 09-30-2006, 10:15 PM
 
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OK, here are my now updated calibration settings for HDMI. With these settings, brightness is off the chart and colors POP off the screen. Rocky 4 in HD looks GLORIOUS. Here are the settings:

Cinema

Contrast - 19
Brightness - -5
Color - 15
Tint - -2
Sharpness - 15

Advanced -

Degamma - Film
Brilliant Color - 4
True Vivid - 0
Color Temp - 1
Image AI - Off

RGB -

Red Gain - 15
Green Gain - 13
Blue Grain - 12
Red Bias - -18
Green Bias - -20
Blue Bias - -15


Now, these settings look amazing, colors pop and dark scenes look GREAT. However... Yellow looks mustardy vs pure yellow. No matter HOW MUCH fine tuning im doing, i cant get the yellows to look calmer. Shockingly, every other color looks amazing. Otherwise im VERY happy with the settings.
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post #10 of 2474 Old 10-01-2006, 07:08 AM
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Anyone have the HD70 settings (in Cinema mode?) for an SA8300 HD box from Cablevison?

Also, am I losing sharpness with a 130" diagonal screen? My HD72 with a 95" diagonal screen is much, much sharper, but I don't know if the HD70's lack of sharpness is because of screen size or the Cablevision box or both. But I'm disapponited.
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post #11 of 2474 Old 10-01-2006, 07:14 AM
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Yes, going from 95" to 130" you're going to lose what you perceive to be "sharpness". Still the same number of pixels on the screen, but now you're blowing them all up to a much larger size.

My 106" image is razor sharp....but I would also wager that the optics in a $999 projector aren't going to be the same as the optics on one that costs nearly twice as much, we can't ignore that fact either.

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post #12 of 2474 Old 10-01-2006, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

My 106" image is razor sharp....but I would also wager that the optics in a $999 projector aren't going to be the same as the optics on one that costs nearly twice as much, we can't ignore that fact either.

Agree on the optics, but if your 106" is 'razor' sharp, my 130 shouldn't be soft. Maybe not razor sharp, but sharp. Maybe it's the Cablevision box, which is outputting 1080i; I think there is some advanced setup feature to force it to output 720p. Also i am using component out because the HDMI output of the box was dark.
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post #13 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 12:09 PM
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Im really looking for some calibration numbers on the D-Sub VGA input... would one of you be interested in tackling that?
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post #14 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you. These settings work great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed View Post

OK, here are my now updated calibration settings for HDMI. With these settings, brightness is off the chart and colors POP off the screen. Rocky 4 in HD looks GLORIOUS. Here are the settings:

Cinema

Contrast - 19
Brightness - -5
Color - 15
Tint - -2
Sharpness - 15

Advanced -

Degamma - Film
Brilliant Color - 4
True Vivid - 0
Color Temp - 1
Image AI - Off

RGB -

Red Gain - 15
Green Gain - 13
Blue Grain - 12
Red Bias - -18
Green Bias - -20
Blue Bias - -15


Now, these settings look amazing, colors pop and dark scenes look GREAT. However... Yellow looks mustardy vs pure yellow. No matter HOW MUCH fine tuning im doing, i cant get the yellows to look calmer. Shockingly, every other color looks amazing. Otherwise im VERY happy with the settings.

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post #15 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 04:32 PM
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are you using the HDMI input?


Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed View Post

Heres my settings.

Just a note, HD70 is table mounted and using a 92" Graywolf II screen.

Under IMAGE:

Mode = Cinema
Contrast = 8
Brightness = 16
Color = 10
Tint = -2
Sharpness = 15

Under Advanced:

Degamma = Film
BrilliantColor = 0
TrueVivid = 0
Color Temp = 1
Image AI = Off
Color Space = YCbCr

Under RGB/Gain/Bias:

Red Gain = 13
Green Gain = 2
Blue Gain = 12
Red Bias = -18
Green Bias = -20
Blue Bias = -15

Under Display:

Native

Calibrated using Avia on the PC running 1280x720 with 1:1 pixel mapping.

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post #16 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 04:55 PM
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I dont think those are VGA settings, as they dont give you access to "Color" & "Tint" controls on the VGA input.

I could be wrong.....
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post #17 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 05:19 PM
 
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Thats HDMI. Ill post my Xbox 360 component calibrations up next. I might use the VGA Cord for the 360 to see if thats any better, but i really doubt it will be.
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post #18 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 07:16 PM
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Heres the best I could get to bring this thing to d65k. I've tried so hard to get this thing to calibrate right. I come up with number close to this every time. And its still not right. At this point I'm very unhappy. I feel stuck with the unit as I will probably lose over $200 if I return it. I realy hope optoma releases a new firmware and fixes the problems with the color decoder.

gamma= pc
BC=2
color temp = 1
Red Gain = 13
Green Gain = -3
Blue Gain = -8
Red Bias = -20
Green Bias = -15
Blue Bias = -13

This is on a white screen
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post #19 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 07:29 PM
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Red Dog

Do you know that those are greyscale controls for adjusting color temp - very few projectors (even very spendy ones) have actual color decoder controls that work properly.

For adjusting color temp you use grey patterns with a sensor, for adjusting color decoder you use the RGB pattern with the % markers and the RGB filters. Gain and Bias (sometimes called Drives/Contrast and Cuts/Offsets/Brightness) are subcontrols for brightness and contrast. The color decoder is the subcontrols for color(sat) and hue(tint) - there is generally not a naming consistentcy for these subcontrols

The former is for adjusting the panel - the latters is for adjusting the video. Think of video as watercolors on a canvas (the panel) - it is essentially colorized B&W afterall!

Many people make the mistake of seeing the RGB% in the patterns and finding RGB controls and make the connection - there is no connection at all! They are entirely the wrong controls for adjusting the color decoder.

Both guitarman and I do mail-in calibrations for cheaper than a restock fee - you might try that before calling it quits. I am offering the first HD70er calibration for no cost other than time to do a full review and you will only be out the shipping&insurance.

I don't know if you have calibration gear or not - but saying the color decoder is broken when you are posting greyscale controls.....either you mispoke or you are confused about the calibration process.
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post #20 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 07:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [H]RedDog View Post

Heres the best I could get to bring this thing to d65k. I've tried so hard to get this thing to calibrate right. I come up with number close to this every time. And its still not right. At this point I'm very unhappy. I feel stuck with the unit as I will probably lose over $200 if I return it. I realy hope optoma releases a new firmware and fixes the problems with the color decoder.

gamma= pc
BC=2
color temp = 1
Red Gain = 13
Green Gain = -3
Blue Gain = -8
Red Bias = -20
Green Bias = -15
Blue Bias = -13

This is on a white screen

Have to say, i REALLY like these settings. Yellow really looks yellow again! Im gonna try it out on a few more flicks... Whats your contrast/brightness settings and the rest like color/tint? Pulp Fiction and Anchormans fleshtones look much nicer and theres a lot less blooming in the whites. Great work!

Edit - Putting brilliant color to 4 really helps the colors pop. Bigtime. I had to change it to 4 LOL.
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post #21 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 08:27 PM
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krasmuzik I do have the gear to do a proper d65k calibration. I shouldnt have said decoder error. There is something wrong with how the color settings work. No matter what setting I use there is always a spike in red between 80 and 90 ire. I can tune red gain down but it will bring 70 60 50 and 40 ire down too far and there will be too much green.Red always seems to tune in a u shape across the ire's. Spikes at the lower and higher ires and dipped in the middle. I can somewhat even out the lower ires but at 80 and 90 there is too much red then it dips back to normal at 100 ire. There is no was to use the gains and bias to evenly raise the red or the green. Only the blue controls can be used to raise the blue channel evenly. If you have any ideas on how to get rid of the spikes without lowering the rest of the red channel I'd like to hear them. So far to me it seems there is something thats causeing a spike that the user controls can not get rid of. The settings I have listed are as flat at d65 as I can get them.
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post #22 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 08:49 PM
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for anyone who might be interested, here is a screenshot using blitz's most recent HDMI calibration numbers...

Im not very good at taking photos with my camera in the dark.... but I am pleased with the image.





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post #23 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 08:55 PM
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OK Red Dog - just making sure - common thing I see is people think they are tuning their projectors with the RGB% pattern and RGB controls!

I don't doubt for a minute that Optoma has gamed the RGB gamma curves - I have never been able to get one with perfectly flat RGB from H30-H79 - without turning contrast control down to make 80% your 100%! They usually go +Red about there - then above that they go -Red to pump up contrast spec with extra Cyan raw lamp - . OK do that in the brightest marketed mode - but why in HT mode play gamma games for specs?

I will usually take that contrast hit to get rid of it because I find high IRE greyscale variances most annoying. With the service menu I would optimize master contrast rather than user contrast as it would usually be off anyways - but sounds like it does not have on HD70. Anyways seems you already did that if it is not dipping down in Red at higher IRE after going up.

If you turned Red up though - you are likely clipping high IRE red (different problem) and making bright Reds very cartoony looking. You need to likely cut blue/green instead of gain red.

anyways free offer still stands - but obviously not worth the time for someone with DIY calibration gear!
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post #24 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 09:16 PM
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blitz6speed, what screen you have? White or gray(lite)? Gain?
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post #25 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 09:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krasmuzik View Post

OK Red Dog - just making sure - common thing I see is people think they are tuning their projectors with the RGB% pattern and RGB controls!

I don't doubt for a minute that Optoma has gamed the RGB gamma curves - I have never been able to get one with perfectly flat RGB from H30-H79 - without turning contrast control down to make 80% your 100%! They usually go +Red about there - then above that they go -Red to pump up contrast spec with extra Cyan raw lamp - . OK do that in the brightest marketed mode - but why in HT mode play gamma games for specs?

I will usually take that contrast hit to get rid of it because I find high IRE greyscale variances most annoying. With the service menu I would optimize master contrast rather than user contrast as it would usually be off anyways - but sounds like it does not have on HD70. Anyways seems you already did that if it is not dipping down in Red at higher IRE after going up.

If you turned Red up though - you are likely clipping high IRE red (different problem) and making bright Reds very cartoony looking. You need to likely cut blue/green instead of gain red.

anyways free offer still stands - but obviously not worth the time for someone with DIY calibration gear!

Id take you up on your offer if you were local!
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post #26 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 09:20 PM
 
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Graywolf II, 1.8 gain, table mounted.
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post #27 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz6speed View Post

Graywolf II, 1.8 gain, table mounted.

Gain 1.8 and not see huge white spot? Isnt pretty bright-white?

I got DIY gray screen, gain about 0.8-1.0. I think i must then try to calibrate pretty different settings that you use.

Still waiting those pj:s here in Finland, maybe this week.
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post #28 of 2474 Old 10-02-2006, 09:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiikeri View Post

Gain 1.8 and not see huge white spot? Isnt pretty bright-white?

I got DIY gray screen, gain about 0.8-1.0. I think i must then try to calibrate pretty different settings that you use.

Still waiting those pj:s here in Finland, maybe this week.

My cousin who has the identical projector is using a flat white board and same settings, it looks great on his too. But my blacks are much blacker. Also much better shadow detail on my setup then his. Im not 100% in the "cone" area of the graywolf, so i probably only get 1.2-1.4 from where i sit. No white spots at all, looks wonderful!
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post #29 of 2474 Old 10-03-2006, 03:51 PM
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Heres some color settings that are a little better than the last set I posted. You guys can give them a try. This is what I came up with yesterday after another 3 hours on my meter.



Gamma= pc
bc= off
colortemp= 1
Red Gain = 3
Green Gain = -23
Blue Gain = -23
Red Bias = -1
Green Bias = 2
Blue Bias = 2
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post #30 of 2474 Old 10-03-2006, 04:49 PM
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I'd take Kraz up on his offer except he's in WA...thats like....another world away from me in New England

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