Panasonic PT-AX100U Tweak/Calibration Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 356 Old 10-08-2006, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I posted my initial impressions of the pj on the appropriate threads. Now I've had a little more time to fool with the pj. All by eye, so far.

The "eco-mode" low lamp power found under LAMP POWER in the OPTION menu is plenty bright for a 106" diagonal Da-Lite High Power screen. And changing that setting solved half the problem I saw with oversaturated colors on HD Football. A 120" diagonal High Power would be no problem for this projector. I can't speak to the unity gain issue except to look at the projectorcentral calculator and put in some hypothetical numbers.

Okay, I did, it says that on a unity gain screen and the calculator claims 18 ft.L. If we presume an eco-mode setting which gives or some dimming time on the bulb, that 18 might get to 12 pretty quickly, which won't cut it if you like bright images. I notice that the calculator indicates that at 23 ft.L the image becomes bright enough for rooms with ambient light, and a 1.3 gain screen will get you to that minimum, but remember about the dimming over time problem and the dimming caused by going to the longer throw ranges. My policy is always to have had a lot of headroom.

The calculator says that if you are in the "zone"/area of highest gain (2.8) for the High Power (120" diag) you will be watching 49 ft.L. Not bad. And you are still at 40 ft.L for a 133" diag High Power. (I sure wish by wall was big enough for that screen.) However, with a 1.3 gain screen, you are back down to 19 ft.L at 133: diag.

As an aside, you can't see waves on a pull down High Power, except on fast horizontal pans. I have both the 106" diag and the 120" diag High Power. Because the screen is retroreflective and made up of little roundish drops, no matter what angle the surface of the screen is at (within reason of course) the most light is still reflected back to the source (projector) which should be pretty close to where the viewers are.

Remember when you are using a throw calculator, they are usually based on peak lumens, which go away after about 100 hours or so and you may end up with only about 70 or 80% of what you started with, plus, if you use the longer throw, it will also be dimmer than you expect, and the use of the calibration presets will also knock now the lumens, not to mention if you want to use the eco-mode to extend bulb life. Shoot for about twice the ft.L you need, and you will probably be alright.

Hit the "Theater Room" button on the remote and "Cinema1" is your safe haven as most who have measured it say that this setting is essentially perfect according to the calibration disks commercially available, though on some material you will probably find the the colors are too strong for your tastes. "Natural" doesn't look bad either. "Cinema2" seems to make things more dramatic and contrasty, with an overall darker look.

In the "Living Room" rotation of options, "normal" is safest and "vivid" can also look good on some material. Dynamic is a little over the top.

While watching football (Chargers vs Steelers) on HD DTV, I had to make a "Favorite" setting which reduced the overall color level, as it was far too saturated for reality.

I find it very easy to find a setting that makes a source look fantastic. And I expect that, as with my other projector, I will eventually find a tweaked middle ground setting that makes everything look great. I'm just not quite there yet.

I was surprised when an unexpected night scene of the city on a game break was particularly beautiful, as it was deeper and darker than I am used to, but it was quite contrasty and punchy at the same time. So the setting that made the game looked right also may a night time city look right. So, I'm heading in the right direction.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #2 of 356 Old 10-08-2006, 10:33 PM
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Joe I am testing one out for the weekend and everything looks well, except some slight banding I see when changing to different scenes very quickly. But keep in mind I am very picky on artifacts and have been trained to see them. Coming from a Sami 710 it is almost there but not quite. I would have to say though is the best LCD I have used to date. Lots of things to play with. I have had Pano smooth screen before and also have seen the 900 and I would have to say the 100 has changed the way I feel about LCD and smooth screen, If the 1000 is using smooth screen with the extra resolution I think we will all be in for a treat. Hopefully they will be using a good internal processor in it.

The thing I like the most is, it is a true multi purpose room projector. But I would have to agree that eco mode, cinema 1 is the best. If a person has more light in the room go with normal.

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post #3 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 04:36 AM
 
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Thanks for your all's observations.Have you all found if having the light harmonizer on cause more noise.THANKS BUDDA
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post #4 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azjetski View Post

some slight banding I see when changing to different scenes very quickly.

I hadn't noticed that yet on this pj, but I'll check that out. I have had a running inquiry about the picture on my PLV-70 breaking up, like the entire processor is overloaded, like a loss of signal, when those super fast flash bulb type edits (like on the CSI shows) come on that are so popular now.

Budda, I hadn't noticed, though I have turned it off and on to try to see a difference. However I still have very little viewing time in and I won't have my "real" signal until after next weekend.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #5 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I added some content to my first post in paragraphs 2,3,4,5 and 6.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #6 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 08:15 AM
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Based on the strong reviews this projector has gotten, I ordered it this morning. I'll use it for a few years until there are more bright 1080 options. I have a .95 gain AT screen, so I need the extra light. Based on previous reviews that have "Normal" "non-econ" mode at 1400 Lumens, I calculate I'll get about 38FtL out of the gate with this projector, without going into dynamic mode.
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post #7 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I've ordered 6 digital projectors so far, all sight unseen base on reviews. It's just so much easier, especially since I've never seen one (NOT ONE) set up in a store that looked decent. Oops, went OT in my own thread. Sorry.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #8 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 10:53 AM
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Joe the quick flash screens shots is what I was seeing it on. I will say it is very rare I see it. I turned the Mpeg noise filter on and it was almost non-existing after that. I give the 100 a 9.5 overall. For the price you cannot go wrong with it.

Budda I have not noticed any noise with the light harmonizer on maybe a little when you get to a bright scene but I do not think it is a problem of the projector. Put the HD DVD U2 rattle and hum in and you will see what I mean. The bright fogged over scenes have a lot of noise in them on both the 100 and the 710. It also did on the Ruby when I checked out for the 3rd time. I brought my disc with me because of torture scenes like that gives me a better idea of overall pic quality.

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post #9 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 12:23 PM
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not having much money (Off Topic), should I upgrade from a Sony HS20 LCD (almost 3 years old) to the AX100U or should I save my pennies and go with the Mits 5000? I'm used to the extra res of the HS20 (1366x768) and was wondering on a 98" diag screen, would 720p do it with this new smoothscreen? How are shadow details? What are the negatives of this pj? Whats the rated bulb life? Thanks, Thanks, Thanks,
Terry

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post #10 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 01:46 PM
 
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Thanks guys.I myself have not seen noise either with the harmonizer on.Someone in the other thread mention it.But i just can't see it.So far I prefer the normal setting with my 110in Carada BW screen.It seems to give me a really excellent pic.But i also like the colors on cinema 1.I am going to try a 81c filter with the normal setting and see what that does.But i do not think it will be needed like it was on my old ae900.BUDDA
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post #11 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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My kid just made me watch some XBOX 360. To tell the truth, I can't tell what is game and what is projector, so that isn't much help to me. I though I saw the DI react several times on a racing game, but I never saw that on a movie or football.

He thinks it's unbelievably good, though he has a dimmer, lower contrast and lower resolution pj that he games on 24/7. He had just talked me into getting him a good sized LCD flat panel for XMAS (to take off to college), and now he said he can't see spending money on a big flat panel when this is available for the same price.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #12 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 02:12 PM
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Can someone care to experience it with ambient light and how it stands against?
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post #13 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 02:16 PM
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[quote=He thinks it's unbelievably good, though he has a dimmer, lower contrast and lower resolution pj that he games on 24/7. He had just talked me into getting him a good sized LCD flat panel for XMAS (to take off to college), and now he said he can't see spending money on a big flat panel when this is available for the same price.[/QUOTE]

With a nice front projection system for gaming etc. I bet he'll be a VERY popular guy in the dorms.
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post #14 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I'm a little afraid of the "etc." part.

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #15 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 04:53 PM
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The "Tweek" thread so-far has been anything but .

Hey guys, I'm Befuddled !

The gains and bias controls do nada unless the User Color Control is ON or at least -set to -31 (-32 is as low as it goes). In other words it looks like we can't adjust (calibrate )the primaries unless the color decoder is activated.

Normally at least for me I can do a run with Colorfacts and the AccuPel generator to flatten the gray scale very near D65 regardless where the user Color control is set, shouldn't make any difference if Color is on or off. Right ?

On this little darling if Color turned all the way off there is no way to adjust the primaries, they don't budge. It looks like (unlike other display devices I've ever worked on including the previous AE series Panosonic's) all the Bias and Gain control's are able to do is change the RGB color "overlay", Weird !! Thought I was a smart ass before I mistakenly found this was happening or I should say not happening on the AX100. Why would Panosonic do this or have I double dosed my med's, again ?

I asking for an explanation. Some of you calibrater's out there set me streight. I'm hoping there is another service menu on this projector, if not were stuck with a fixed temp with only an adjustable "water color" overlay .

I hope someone has an answer and makes me wish I didn't have my name on this post, I want to look really stupid about this one.
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post #16 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 05:08 PM
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I dunno....on my 120" diag. pull down Hi Power, Eco lamp and Normal with the harmonizer OFF is very good. I don't see any benefit for changing to Cinema 1. It turns green/grey. Maybe it's my unit. The honeymoon for me is still in Normal mode and making no color changes. Wife agrees. If this holds true, you can't beat this unit (for us) out of the box.

Randy


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post #17 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 05:24 PM
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I'm thinking of changing from my 4 year old NEC Ht1000 to the PANNY AX100U . I'm currently using a stewart firehawk screen@ 100'. Do you think the grey screen will affect brightness since it was recomended for DLP'S. I would hate to change screens
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post #18 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 05:33 PM
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Does anyone understand the title of Joe's (this) Thread ????
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post #19 of 356 Old 10-09-2006, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Jimmy, you're talking way over my head (or at least past my memory), but when I went in the advanced menu I don't remember having any trouble adjusting the drive on the three primaries, but I had to hit "favorite save" to make sure I could keep the changes. I'll read your thread closer and go fool with it, but the kid is gaming now, and I'm watching football and Pryor on the other PJ.

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The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #20 of 356 Old 10-13-2006, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Jimmy, Did you ever get your drive problem/question figured out?

Joe -----

The harder it is to tell the difference, the less difference it makes.

 

"I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude." -- Thomas Jefferson, translated from Latin

 

Also translated as "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery" 

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post #21 of 356 Old 10-13-2006, 10:56 PM
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Hi Joe, sorry, poor explaination on my part.
No haven't figured it out. What Panosonic did was out of character considering their past models and other digitals I have played with. I'm still trying to make sense why RGB controls are unless unless Color is turned on. I'm sure someone will straighten me out about this.

Anyway I played a little tonight

The pj I have has way over saturated colors at default user Color settings. After a few CF runs and lowering the Color Control each time I ended up at Color -15. All 6 colors were now placed on the CIE triangle and very close to where they should be.

Finally I adjusted gains and bias' while doing multiple 10 step Gray runs, everything fell easily to D65, our target White point. This may be hard to believe to some, I nailed 0.3127, 0.3290 on over six the 10 IRE's measured, bet I never do that again. (0.3127, 0.3290 is on the button D65 at any lumenence level) Bottom line all is really good as far as calibrating the AX100 goes. I have to say the one I have doesn't need much touch up at all. 4 G and B settings moved from their 0 default, only 1 +- 3, 1 +- 2 and the last two only moved +-1 from my factory default. That's pretty damn good especially for an dirt "inexpensive BRIGHT projector !!

Yeah, redundent ,
I found this projector was so very close to 6500k using Cinema 1 "out of box" and untouched. Very little changing or adjustments were needed to bring it to the D65 white target on mine except a major dropping of the User Color control and minor tinkering with the grey scale controls. For sure It is not an absolutely perfectly calibrated pj but boy the factory did a great job of setting it up for Cine 1 mode.
Hint, attempting gray-scale cal with the AI ON will smudge your readings.


I'd like to hear from other AX100 users on two points.
1. If your User Color is turned all the way off (-32) how does changing your 6 Advanced Menu RGB Bright (Bias) and Contrast (gain) controls effect the monochrome image you should be seeing. If they do nothing you have found my confusion.
For our "Millory" types, what does the Color encoder have to do with setting gray scale or, why does this projector need color encoder ON so you can adjust any of the contrast and cut's ?
This has got my goat...
Yes, with color ON it calibrates just fine.

2. All AX100 owners, does yourcolor seem way over saturated with the Color control set at it's default 0 ? HDMI in, any source.

Hope I made sense this time, no thanks to Mr. GlenLivet..
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post #22 of 356 Old 10-14-2006, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyR View Post


2. All AX100 owners, does yourcolor seem way over saturated with the Color control set at it's default 0 ? HDMI in, any source.

I have not had the time to take a closer look. It looked great out of the box, I only changed color saturation to -2 and contrast to -1 in cinema 1 mode in low lamp mode. This is using the vga input from a htpc running 720p.

peter
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post #23 of 356 Old 10-14-2006, 06:52 PM
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Daniel........

Does the AX100 have a dust filter that must be serviced periodically?

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post #24 of 356 Old 10-14-2006, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post


Does the AX100 have a dust filter that must be serviced periodically?

Yes. And just like the older pana's the manual states that you have to clean it every 100 hours.

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post #25 of 356 Old 10-15-2006, 12:01 AM
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bummer... so like every month...

If the projector is ceiling mounted do you have to unmount to clean the filter?

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post #26 of 356 Old 10-15-2006, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

bummer... so like every month...

If the projector is ceiling mounted do you have to unmount to clean the filter?

Depends if you mount it below 1.2 the projector height you could slide it out in place. If the projector is closer to the ceiling then that...then unfortunally yes.

I plan to clean it every 300 hours as I have done with my previous panny.

peter
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post #27 of 356 Old 10-15-2006, 04:27 AM
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I sold by Mitsu DLP and bought an AX100u. Got it up on the ceiling this evening and I am very impressed. Its 720p output does not show the screen door effect any more than my LCOS based Canon SX60. The unit is just as bright too. Am running it on my 9' wide Studiotek 130 screen in econo lamp mode. For sports the "normal" setting works great.

I ran a portion of Digital Essentials and found it took a brightness setting of -9 to get the blacker than black bar to vanish in normal mode. In Cinema1 the setting was -12. Have not fooled with any other default settings. If anyone does has the calibration equipment post what it took to get the unit to D65.

For its price this is the new price/performance leader projector. My only concern is the one year warranty and my prior experience with a commercial grade projector that had LCD panel and polarizer failures which seems common for LCD units under moderate to heavy use.

According to a tech support rep at Panny they will shortly be coming out with their own service contract extension plans for this and probably other units as well. I'd like to get one so when I flip it next year (or so) for the next best thing my buyer will still have a warranty. Won't go to 1080p till the lumens get up to the AX100's neighborhood.

Would love to see this unit side by side against a Pearl. This unt costs less than half the price, has twice the lumens and even its CR is decent enough to be a non-issue as it was with older LCD units. I doubt if the purists here will take this great, not so little 720p unit seriously but I think its image would challenge those of the Ruby and Pearl.

Post those D65 settings!

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post #28 of 356 Old 10-15-2006, 05:52 AM
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I am very interested in seeing if it is possible to calibrate the AX100 to D65 in normal mode, and if so, what the lumens are compared to Cinema 1 when calibrated to D65. These two modes would work great - use Cinema 1 for movie watching and Normal for TV/sports.
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post #29 of 356 Old 10-15-2006, 11:46 PM
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can someone who has done hardware calibration on this unit please post your best settings? i'm also using cinema 1 for movies and normal mode for hdtv/sports. the results are decent, but i of course would love to improve the projector's performance if i can.

also has anyone try attaching a filter to this projector yet? any improvement in contrast and color with the filter? please post the type of filter you are using, and also how much lumen/brightness you lose by losing the filter. on a side note, is anyone putting an uv filter on the lens just for protection against dust and scratch? i'm thinking about putting an uv filter on the lens so i don't need to put the lens cap back on all the time. whenever i put the lens cap on, it seems to turn the focus ring slightly so i would always have to re-focus again. would the uv filter decrease the brightness/lumen? technically it shouldn't right?
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post #30 of 356 Old 10-16-2006, 07:16 AM
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Is there any reason not to use a can of compresssed gas to clean the lens. I know that this gas is not recommended for camera mirrors and can damage them.
Thanks
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