Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 04:24 AM
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kej2u -- If you haven't calibrated it yet, that could be the reason for the "poor" black levels. I used the GetGray Caldisc with my cheapo HC3 PJ (CR challenged) and I got pretty good bleck levels (much better that I could get with either AVIA or DVE).

I know, I know, you're too busy enjoying your new toy .

I have to go to LA (my SO's grandson's birthday) but when I get back, I guess I'll have to go over to ChrisW6ATV's place and "calibrate" his new 1080 for him.

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post #182 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 04:33 AM
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Can anyone please take a look at the picture below, and tell me how to interpret the amount of lens shift that the Epson have ? (this is from the TW1000 manual)



http://img151.imagevenue.com/img.php..._122_596lo.jpg

From what I see, if for example your screen is 50" high (this is the height you get for a 100" digonal 16:9 screen), then by using the maximum setting of lens shift, you can put the top of the lens-shifted image, to be 48" above the top of the non-lens-shifted image (or you can put the bottom of the lens-shifted image, to be 48" below the bottom of the non-lens-shifted image). Am I getting this right ?
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post #183 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 04:45 AM
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Yup, you got it right. Epson has the most lens shift of any of the LCD PJs, Sanyo is second.

Remember, if you use up all of the vertical shift, you won't have any horizontal shift to play with. Also, the closer you get to the maximum shift (in any direection, the more distortion you will get - you're getting close to the lens edges). You should use no more than 85% of the total shift, to keep the best picture.

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post #184 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 04:55 AM
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Quote:


You should use no more than 85% of the total shift, to keep the best picture.

So you're saying whether I use 0% vertical lens shift, or 85% vertical lens shift, the distortion level should be the same ? (i.e non existent).
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post #185 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikethewxguy View Post

Anyone plan on upgrading from the Panny AX-100U?

I'm thinking hard about doing it...absolutely love the Panny though (have had no issues)...

Thanks for sharing all the pics...you may have sold me...

Yeah, I just upgraded from the Panny but I'm still waiting for the Epson to show up. I'll let you know when I can make a comparison. I absolutely loved the AX-100 since I have my projector in the family room where there isn't great light control, the AX-100 was unbelievably bright and looked fantastic. Unfortunately I went through two of them due to quality control problems (the second one started doing the "turns off after 5 minutes" thing) and so I decided that I couldn't risk another AX-100. I had just about decided on trying to import an Epson TW-700 when I saw the news about the 1080.

So, I guess my timing is just about perfect! Of course I've been without a projector for a week now...
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post #186 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 07:22 AM
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Yes, please do let me know once you get the epson...

I'm trying to figure out what I can do to convince the wife that it's time to upgrade...maybe if I take her shopping today and drop some hints along the way?

I believe I can still return my Panny (purchased from AAFES Military sales) and I just may have to do that...

Looks like I would need to pull the trigger today on the epson to get the great warranty deal that is out there though...so, I dunno
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post #187 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 07:22 AM
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Okay, after the initial giddyness wore off, I decided to compare and scrutinize my perceived difference between my Sanyo Z2 and the Epson by setting them both up and A-B'ing the same source material.

Comparison 1

Comparison 2

This morning, I am trying to decide if I will keep or return the Epson. I have only a few hours on it and can return it sans restocking fee. While the picture upgrade is substantial, I just don't know if I feel it warrants the $3k price I paid.

Thinking....thinking...


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post #188 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 07:25 AM
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Colors, contrast is better on the Epson (right out of the box)
-The Z2 has too much of a "greenish" hue. I'll need to explore my settings further.
-Image on the Epson is definitely sharper, smoother, and devoid of SDE.
-The Epson is more filmlike.

based on those pics, and your observations, the Epson blows it away..a no brainer IMHO.

Have u calibrated it the Epson?
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post #189 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 07:31 AM
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Is your other projector a 720p?

Base on those pics I would keep the Epson the color is so much better and I couldn't go back the the green tint.


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post #190 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 07:40 AM
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If anyone gets theirs would you mind posting ambient light pics?(One poster did but the more the better)

this week has changed my buying options significantly once again is all I can say.
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post #191 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 07:44 AM
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isn't the restocking fee like 15-20% ????

So, you would be willing to lose out on the $450-600 and go back?

I'm trying to figure out if I want to upgrade to the Epson (from a Panny AX100U) - which is gonna cost me around $1000 more out of pocket after all is said and done (Note: I still have about 45 days left that I can return the Panny with no restocking fee along with a $70.00, 3 year warranty that I can cancel).

I think I'm gonna pull the trigger
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post #192 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kej2u View Post

Okay, after the initial giddyness wore off, I decided to compare and scrutinize my perceived difference between my Sanyo Z2 and the Epson by setting them both up and A-B'ing the same source material.

Comparison 1

Comparison 2

This morning, I am trying to decide if I will keep or return the Epson. I have only a few hours on it and can return it sans restocking fee. While the picture upgrade is substantial, I just don't know if I feel it warrants the $3k price I paid.

Thinking....thinking...

Is this a trick question? The Epson looks waaaay better, and will look even better after calibration.

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post #193 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 08:02 AM
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CT_Wiebe posted the following:

Quote:


Yup, you got it right. Epson has the most lens shift of any of the LCD PJs, Sanyo is second.

Remember, if you use up all of the vertical shift, you won't have any horizontal shift to play with. Also, the closer you get to the maximum shift (in any direection, the more distortion you will get - you're getting close to the lens edges). You should use no more than 85% of the total shift, to keep the best picture.

Does the use of vertical or horizontal lens shift affect the light output from the projector? Does it reduce the brightness?

My understanding is that it affects brightness uniformity. Is this correct?
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post #194 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 10:07 AM
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I wouldn't have to pay a restocking fee. And yes, the Epson looks way better, I'm simply trying to figure out if I can get my Z2's colors to match, because if I could, then that closes the gap quite a bit, IMO.

I don't use the lens shift much. Just the vertical by maybe 10-15%. PJ is horizontally centered with my screen already.

Don't get me wrong, the Epson does look way better, but until you yourselves have actually ponied up the cash, you don't realize whether you feel the upgrade is "worth it" or not. That is all I was trying to say.


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post #195 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kej2u View Post

I'm using a first generation grey EluneVision screen (134" diagonal).
Since it is grey, it helps with the blacks but steals a bit of light. This screen doesn't have any real reflective properties (unlike a high power/gain).

The colors speak for themselves in the photos.
This unit still doesn't have the kind of blacks I truly pine for, but alas I can't even think of saving up for a G90. My wife would do bad things to me.

The blacks aren't terrible, it's just I was hoping to see even more deliniation in very dark scenes -- such as the ninja scene from Batman Begins.

That's a huge grey screen and the Epson looks plenty bright to me. My screen will be much smaller (44"x104" 2.35 or 2.40 ratio). I was initially thinking to go with the Carada Criterion Brilliant White in this size but after seeing your pics I am going to explore other options.

As far as the G90 I wouldn't sweat it too much. I had a Barco 1209 which is a similar 9" CRT. Personally I will never go back to CRT as there are many downsides (size,heat,noise,edge of screen focus). The blacks are better but that's about it. You will never see the incredible sharpness and perfect focus your getting with the Epson, even with the best of CRT's the G90.
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post #196 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kej2u View Post

Okay, after the initial giddyness wore off, I decided to compare and scrutinize my perceived difference between my Sanyo Z2 and the Epson by setting them both up and A-B'ing the same source material.

Comparison 1

Comparison 2

This morning, I am trying to decide if I will keep or return the Epson. I have only a few hours on it and can return it sans restocking fee. While the picture upgrade is substantial, I just don't know if I feel it warrants the $3k price I paid.

Thinking....thinking...

I can definitely relate. There are many factors that go into a decision of this magnitude. I would be curious to see some screen shots after you adjust the color of your Z2 to more closely match the Epson. At the moment the color differences are too obvious to determine how they really compare from a photo.
Thanks for posting these and I look forward to more as I think there are many members trying to decide if the upgrade is justified at this time.

JD


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post #197 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 12:34 PM
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Could someone who has the Epson please try and post a picture of it's underside, showing the mount positions for the ceiling mounts?

Trying to determine if my old mount will work with this thing...

thx
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post #198 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdskycaster View Post

I can definitely relate. There are many factors that go into a decision of this magnitude. I would be curious to see some screen shots after you adjust the color of your Z2 to more closely match the Epson. At the moment the color differences are too obvious to determine how they really compare from a photo.
Thanks for posting these and I look forward to more as I think there are many members trying to decide if the upgrade is justified at this time.

JD

I have decided to return the Epson for now. I won't have to pay a restocking fee because of the return policy where I bought it.

It is a better picture, however, I feel that it's not enough for me to feel like I got $3,000 worth of improvement. Perhaps $1,000 worth.

I color-corrected the Sanyo to the best of my ability and it now appears much closer to the Epson, however it still has a blue-green hue that I can't quite eliminate.

Here are the color correction A-B's. Better, still not perfect.



Z2

EPSON

Z2

EPSON

Z2

EPSON


I'll revisit this decision later after the 1080p's come down even more. Who knows? By that time, perhaps I'll pop for the JVC.

Still, I'm sure that those who purchase the Epson will enjoy it.


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post #199 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 01:20 PM
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More revised color A-B.

Z2

EPSON

Z2

EPSON


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post #200 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 01:32 PM
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Kej, f you ask me, I think you're making a mistake. If you're looking for a $3000 improvement, you're not gonna find it in any sub-$5k projector. Not to mention if and when the next wave of 1080p's come out in September, I highly doubt any of them will be substantially better than the Epson. IMO, this is the Z2 for the 1080p era.

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post #201 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlreddragon View Post

Kej, f you ask me, I think you're making a mistake. If you're looking for a $3000 improvement, you're not gonna find it in any sub-$5k projector. Not to mention if and when the next wave of 1080p's come out in September, I highly doubt any of them will be substantially better than the Epson. IMO, this is the Z2 for the 1080p era.


Although I agree that the Epson is a great buy at the moment I would have to agree with Kej on his decision to return it at this time. The Epson is the first in a wave of budget 1080p units. Panasonic, Mitsubishi and others have already lowered their prices to compete. I believe we will see more lumens at the same price point as well as CR and BL much closer to the current RS1.

Yes, the Epson is a fine PJ for the money but I will be holding out, with my 480p PJ, for the next wave. This is much more difficult than if I was already in the 720p camp but I am determined

I applaud Kej on his decision to wait. It really boils down to how many times you are willing to turn over your dollars to the upgrade bug versus realizing that enjoying the content is just as important as the race to perfect the way that we see and hear it! There are many times that I will watch movie after movie and say to myself, this crappy story would not be any better with more resolution, better BL, better CR and............

JD


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post #202 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 03:54 PM
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Not sure where it came from but if it came with a freeextended warranty/mount..then this was only a $25-26000 proj. if u think about it.
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post #203 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlreddragon View Post

Kej, f you ask me, I think you're making a mistake. If you're looking for a $3000 improvement, you're not gonna find it in any sub-$5k projector. Not to mention if and when the next wave of 1080p's come out in September, I highly doubt any of them will be substantially better than the Epson. IMO, this is the Z2 for the 1080p era.


I've been trying to determine if the Epson was the right upgrade for me as well from a Z1. I haven't personally seen a 1080p next to a 720p but from reading on this forum and the $3K+ one, I can wait 3-4 years to get a 1080p for $2K at that time.

Hopefully, a 2011 1080p will blow away the current Epson. I've decided to upgrade my Z1 to a Z5. The current price of a Z5 today + $2K a few years down the road is about the same as buying the Epson today. I know if I bought the Epson now, I'd be wanting to upgrade again in 3 years anyway. I hope we get RS1 picture for $2K on my next upgrade.
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post #204 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlreddragon View Post

The blacks are slightly better on the Epson than on the Z4. It's been a while since I've checked out the Z4, but I remember the Panny being similar to it and the Epson is just a tiny bit better than both. The picture still looks incredible though and I haven't seen this big of an improvement in picture quality since I bought my first HD DVD. The projector's incredibly sharp and the color blows both the Sanyo and the Panasonic out of the water. And all for under 3k!


Thanks for the information. I believe that I will be looking to get the Epson. I am running a Playstation 3 for Blu-Ray and the HD drive for the Xbox 360. I know that I won't be able to get the 1080p for the Xbox movies (due to component hook-up), but I am buying more Blu-ray discs anyway. The PS3 runs with the 1.3 HDMI connector.
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post #205 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 05:33 PM
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Just checked and VA has extended the 4 year extended warranty (6 yrs total) and 2 year lamp warranty deal to 04/23/07. The 1st two years is Epson warranty and then 4 year GE warranty. On top of this no sales tax and free shipping. That's a pretty good deal. The extended GE warranty purchased separately is $300. I'm no expert but what are the chances 6 years from now this thing will still be humming along. Imagine what $2999 will get you 6 years from now if they can't repair it.
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post #206 of 1271 Old 04-21-2007, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kej2u View Post

I color-corrected the Sanyo to the best of my ability and it now appears much closer to the Epson, however it still has a blue-green hue that I can't quite eliminate.

I didn't know LCDs also had a green tinge problem (assuming Z1 is LCD). DLP owners used to put in a magenta filter to get the correct balance. If you search for filter you should find the info.

But I'm surprised you don't think 1080 will not improve HiDef DVD PQ enough to warrant an upgrade (IIRC I saw the Babel HD DVD snapshot).
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post #207 of 1271 Old 04-22-2007, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

So you're saying whether I use 0% vertical lens shift, or 85% vertical lens shift, the distortion level should be the same ? (i.e non existent).

No. I'm saying that the distortion can get bad once you exceed 85% (this number is not cast in concrete, it depends on the lens used). You will get the least distortion with zero lens shift. How much you use depends on your setup and your eyes. Just be forewarned, don't plan on using all of the lens shift (you'll shoot yourself in the foot, if you do).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartok View Post

Does the use of vertical or horizontal lens shift affect the light output from the projector? Does it reduce the brightness?

My understanding is that it affects brightness uniformity. Is this correct?

It shouldn't effect light output (but the zoom does - the further away from the screen, the less brightness). However, the more lens shift used the larger the possible effect on brightness uniformity. Again, it all depends on the quality of the lens used.

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post #208 of 1271 Old 04-22-2007, 08:26 AM
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What CT_Wiebe is saying, is that the distortion will vary from 0% lens shift to 100% lens shift and over 85% lens shift up to 100% it will look quite poor. So with that advice, use as little as possible. So if you can set your projector up so you use 0% lens shift, or say only 10-20% lens shift, you'll be seeing very little distortion. If on the other hand, you have to use as much as 50% lens shift, it still won't look horrible, but it will look worse than 0-25%. Basically, try and use as little as possible, and stay as far below 80-85% lens shift as possible.
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post #209 of 1271 Old 04-22-2007, 10:18 AM
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Here's a little something for any of you wondering if the (blue hued) Z2 is just way off calibration or not.

I actually owned a Z2 before I decided to move to a Z4. I had read reviews that the SDE I could clearly see on the Z2 was almost nonexistent on the Z4. The review should still be up on ProjectorCentral.com. It also mentioned the great difference in contrast between the two machines. It was enough for me to jump at a great deal on a Z4 online.
After I purchased the Z4, I set both of the projectors to the same settings, and used the same screen, same mount, etc... to compare them. This is what I saw.


for the Z2 (above), and



for the Z4 (above).


It is very true that the Z2 has a "washed out" blueish hue to its images when put next to a newer machine. Both of the machines had done about the same with resolution of course, but the blacks seemed to be much better on the Z4. I hadn't owned the Z2 for too long, and the lamp didn't have a great deal of hours upon it. I was surprised at the way the colors jumped off of the screen much better on the Z4 compared to the Z2.

Now the only question that I am left with is - how much of a difference is there between the Z4 (or Z5) versus the new Epson.

(On a side note, I did not have an HD version of the calibration disc at the time these were taken AND both of these images are NOT pulled from an HD player. They are being played on a Sony upconverting player - as I didn't own any HD players when I bought the Z4. I just thought that you might like to see some of my older files for the comparison. I would give you a new comparison, but I sold the Z2 last year.)
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post #210 of 1271 Old 04-22-2007, 11:05 AM
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After some more thorough analysis, plus some conversations with my wife and your feedback, I have decided that I will indeed keep the Epson.

I was foolishly trying to get the Z2 to match the Epson in color and I simply couldn't do it. It's true. It has too much of a blue tinge.

The thing that made me so wishy-washy was the fact that the Z2 still throws an incredibly sharp image. However, I had saved up and waited for 1080p under $3k. And the Epson, with its superior picture, colors, absence of SDE, and the 5 year warranty I got, is clearly the better choice.

I will most likely keep my Z2 for other uses. Occasionally, downstairs we roll our 60" TV to the side and project on a 12 x 25 foot wall for the true movie screen experience. The Z2 will work for that. I'll also use it to show movies outside during summer nights.

Thanks to all for their opinions, advice, and encouragement.
You just can't beat the image that the Epson throws. (even when you try to justify the cost savings of returning it)


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Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 1080 Home Theater Projector , Panasonic Pt Ae1000u High Definition Home Theater Projector
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