Sharp XV-Z12000MK2 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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A certain store that shall remain nameless is advertising this PJ for short money. Question is, is it any good? I tried researching it but there's little out there. I do know that its a DC3 PJ with vertical lens shift, and real good contrast numbers. Anyone know anything? I was looking at the Mits HC3000, but this might be better, what with the DC3 and lens shift. It's priced around where the Optoma H73 is, would that be a better deal? Help!
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post #2 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 12:34 PM
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Floridapoolboy

I also saw that price and I am seriously interested. It's a monster in size but with it's long throw and mechanical lens shift, it works well for my room. This was Sharp's best pj before the 1080p XV-Z20000. It was pricey at $1ok a year ago and even at $5k recently but it's very tempting now.

Here's a couple of comercial reviews:

HomeTheater Review
UltimateAV Review

Also do a search for Z12000 here on AVS. There is not a lot but it is generally positive.

I'd like to hear more though!
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post #3 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 12:43 PM
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I pulled the trigger this morning and ordered one.
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post #4 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 01:42 PM
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I've been waiting for a DLP with lens shift at this price point for a long time. I did see the original Z12000 without the DC3 chip. It threw a beautiful picture bright enough for a room with total light control. I expect it to look great on a high gain screen. Sharp has an excellent if expensive reputation. At my distance and screen size it didnt' make sense for me to spend alot more for 1080. I will wait until 1080 is cheaper and brighter possibly with an LED or Laser light source. This should serve very nicely for the next 3-4 years. With 90 days to return, it was a no brainer. I orderd one and expect it by this Wednesday. The only issue is whether Sharp will honor the warranty from this retailer.
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post #5 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 01:46 PM
 
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For that price it is a steal, well below dealer cost. It isn't the brightest PJ in high contrast mode/ low lamp mode but if you don't go too big for a screen the picture is great! Good calibration controls as well.
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post #6 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think I'm gonna go for it, sounds like a good deal. The "store" extends the warranty for 2 years, shouldn't be a problem getting service!
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post #7 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 03:49 PM
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could someone PM me the store you guys are referring to? Not sure if I found the same one. Also, seems to be a bit on the loud side - 32dB in eco mode?
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post #8 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 04:54 PM
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I'd like to know the "store" as well if someone doesn't mind. Thanks!
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post #9 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 05:05 PM
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I own this projector. I think the z20000 is only incrementally better having seen both. To stay that this is a steal is understating it.

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post #10 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 05:28 PM
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Just to add a few points for those who might be interested. I think that this is one of the best home theater projectors available at any price. For $2k it is a no brainer. The picture quality still amazes me. On/Off and ANSI contrast are some of the best out there and it is obvious from the picture it presents. To be honest, the much hgher priced Z20000 is only just a little bit better. You have to look very hard to see any differences. Its not 1080p. That it why it is cheap now. Do some investigating and see why 1080p is really no different than 720p.

Some things to note. This is a long throw projector. To get a 106" image you need at least about 14 feet. There is vertical lens shift but no horizontal lens shift. That means the projector has to be horizontally centered on the screen but it can be table, shelf or ceiling mounted. It is huge. It is built like a tank. The lens is all glass and built by minolta. It is a bit on the noisy side. I don't hear it during movies.

I would be happy to answer any questions that anyone may have. It will be nice to get up a discussion on this projector again.

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post #11 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1270 View Post

I'd like to know the "store" as well if someone doesn't mind. Thanks!

We are not allowed to say because of this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805880

Best Regards,
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post #12 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 05:53 PM
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Is the lens shift up and down or just up? In other words if sitting on a shelf, can the picture be shifted down so that the bottom of the screen would be below the lens?
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post #13 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJK View Post

We are not allowed to say because of this.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=805880

Smooth!
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post #14 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post

Is the lens shift up and down or just up? In other words if sitting on a shelf, can the picture be shifted down so that the bottom of the screen would be below the lens?

I just read the manual. If projecting from a table, you can only shift the image up (e.g. distance from lens center to the lower edge of screen is 0 to -52" for a 52" high 16:9 screen). This means that if you are placing the projector on a high shelf, you'll have to put it upside down like with a ceiling mount.
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post #15 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreev View Post

I just read the manual. If projecting from a table, you can only shift the image up (e.g. distance from lens center to the lower edge of screen is 0 to -52" for a 52" high 16:9 screen). This means that if you are placing the projector on a high shelf, you'll have to put it upside down like with a ceiling mount.

Thats too bad. I have my Pany mounted on a high shelf, and was hoping i could do the same with this on.

Also, 33db in eco. sounds a bit loud. One problem I had with the XVZ3K was the fan noise, and that was 30db in eco. Does anyone have one of these that can comment on the fan noise?
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post #16 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 07:59 PM
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Wow, outstanding price, I had to order one! Big thanks for posting this. Hopefully they're not into April Fools jokes...now I have 2 projectors to get rid of!
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post #17 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 08:37 PM
 
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Some info on the PJ since we install this model. First the price is great and WELL below any dealer cost. I don't know of a better deal at the moment.

It is a little noisy. If placed in the back of the room and no one is sitting directly under it it won't bother most people. If you sit directly below it might be bothersome. Compared to any Panny it is louder.

Picture quality is outstanding. The PJ is very flexible in set up but needs to be inverted with a ceiling/wall mount for best results. Certainly not as flexible as the Panny mentioned above but the Panny's trade quality for flexibility. The lens in this alone probably costs more than the panny to make.

If critical viewing is your number one concern do not got over 100" screen. 92" recommended for up to 1.4 gain screens. In high contrast/ low power/ iris closed this PJ is not bright. In my professional opinion 92" is the ideal size for this PJ and also accounting for aging of the lamp. At 92" you get a phenomenal pciture if your watching with no ambient light. Want to watch with lights on? Open the iris to medium or high and switch the lamp high power. This makes this PJ very versatile.

Can you go with a bigger screen and just keep the PJ in its brighter modes? Certainly! It will still will give better PQ than just about anything in the under 2K range currently. For the videophile I'd recommend 92" but for others not as critical 106" would be OK. Definitely, less than 120" unless you have a 2.0 or higher gain screen. This will work with a HP screen if you aligh it with the top of the screen. Its longer throw helps make this possible to keep you in the viewing cone and get the benefit of the screen.

Lastly, this unit is big compared to anything in the under 2K range. So keep that in mind.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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post #18 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 08:41 PM
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Thanks Bob! Have you seen the XVZ3K? How do they compare? Is this one that much better? I assume it has better parts all around, but that may be a bad assumption.
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post #19 of 2537 Old 04-01-2007, 09:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbaba View Post

Thanks Bob! Have you seen the XVZ3K? How do they compare? Is this one that much better? I assume it has better parts all around, but that may be a bad assumption.

Yes, we have installed both models. The 3k is nice but the 12K is much nicer. No contest.

Bob
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post #20 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 04:30 AM
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I use my 12k with a 106" Dalite High Power screen. The projector is set up about 18" over viewing distance when seated so I am getting a lot of gain. I get a picture that is plenty bright in High Contrast/economy lamp mode (the iris closed as far as it can be and the lamp on economy setting). I would guess that if I did not have a high power screen that the picture would be too dim to view in High Contrast mode. BobL is probably right about his screen size recomendations if your screen does not have a lot of gain. The alternative is to open the iris or use the brighter lamp setting.

My projector is set up about a foot behind the seating area and 18 inches above. It is not the quietest projector out there. Fan volume is probably this projector's weakest link but it does not bother me under normal viewing conditions, even when in the seating location closest to the screen. Others will probably not agree.

One thing to note is that the projector ships with colors at the 8500k setting. Don't keep this setting. Changing them to 6500k is as easy as pressing a few buttons on the remote. I don't think that the 6500k setting is perfect but it is very close and not at all objectionable. There are no lime greens or anything like that. I also use the dynamic contrast setting, which emphasizes black detail.

If I had to sum up the character of the image that the 12k projects, I would have to call it film like, although that term is used too often. The high ANSi contrast ensures that images leap off the screen. Mixed light and dark scenes are particularly breathtaking because blacks are inky while whites are bright enough to cause you to blink a few times to allow your eyes to adjust.

I have now seen quite a few 1080p projectors (not the JVC yet) and still feel that the 12k is better than most. The only one that I have seen that is better is the Sharp 20k. Even then, although the 20k is spec'd to have much higher contrast, in practice, the difference is small and hard to notice and not worth an over $5k difference in price.

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post #21 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 04:52 AM
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Thank you Lawguy for your review. It makes me feel good about my order which I thought was a steal. I can't wait to receive it now. What is the gain of the screen you are using?

I am planning a 120" x 51" 2.35:1 setup with SmX AT screen (1.16 gain) and plan to use high contrast low lamp mode in a light controlled room. From what I read so far, it sounds like I will need an anamorphic lens to get that size so that I can limit the projector's 16:9 output to 51" x 92".
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post #22 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreev View Post

Thank you Lawguy for your review. It makes me feel good about my order which I thought was a steal. I can't wait to receive it now. What is the gain of the screen you are using?

I am planning a 120" x 51" 2.35:1 setup with SmX AT screen (1.16 gain) and plan to use high contrast low lamp mode in a light controlled room. From what I read so far, it sounds like I will need an anamorphic lens to get that size so that I can limit the projector's 16:9 output to 51" x 92".

The gain on the High Power is 2.8. I am not getting all of that based on how it is setup. Probably closer to 2.

I think that in order to set up for a 2.35:1 screen you will need both an anamorphic lens and a video processor. This is true with most projectors. This can get expensive very fast.

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post #23 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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O.K., now that it's daytime and I can rethink this let me say, WOW, this is one big honking PJ! I made a cardboard mockup and Holy Cow, it makes my H31 seem tiny by comparison! After reading the reviews I need to ask: is the PQ sufficiently superior to warrant the huge size and relatively noisy operation? This thing would stick out like a sore thumb, and 33db in eco-mode does seem too noisy for the somewhat limited light output in high contrast mode. Righty now I'm also considering the Mits HC3000, which has been reviewed very favorably. Has anyone seen both of these PJs in action? Would the Mits have a comparable image without the size and noise? Help!
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post #24 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 07:34 AM
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I haven't seen either, but I have my finger on the trigger to import a Mitsu HC3100 - which I believe would be the better comparison as it also has the DC3 chipset. The 3100 seems to have quite a bit more light output (see cine4home review) and in eco mode is rated at a much more tolerable 25dB. The z12000mkII will still get better contrast #'s and is built like a tank with superior calibration capabilities and I love the lens shift feature, but I think I'm still going to go with the 3100.
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post #25 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 07:45 AM
 
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PQ the 12K is better than the Mits 3100. The 3100 is a bit brighter and might work better for some depending on screen and room conditions.

Bob
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post #26 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 08:12 AM
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Thanks Bob and Lawguy!

I had a Dwin crt for 8 years so neither the size nor lack of super brightness concern me. I replaced the Dwin a year ago with a Z4 and have been unhappy ever since. Most of the other dlp's in this range have offsets that are difficult for my room.

I ordered the z12k morning.

Ron
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post #27 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 08:34 AM
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I have seen the 3100. To me it would be no contest. I would get the 12k. The only advantage that the 3100 has is size. It is smaller. The advantages of the 12k are: better PQ, better lens, lens shift, better onboard scaler, iris settings, and easily configurable.

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post #28 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbywon View Post

Thanks Bob and Lawguy!

I had a Dwin crt for 8 years so neither the size nor lack of super brightness concern me. I replaced the Dwin a year ago with a Z4 and have been unhappy ever since. Most of the other dlp's in this range have offsets that are difficult for my room.

I ordered the z12k morning.

Ron

I know what you mean. I had a Hitachi HDPJ52, which is a nice LCD projector, but it does not hold a candle to the 12k. I am not a CRT expert and haven't really had the chance to see any. Thus I don't know how it compares to one.

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post #29 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 09:28 AM
 
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Ron,
Congratulation! I just replaced the CRT in my home. The 12K is the closest you will get to that level of quality for the price.


I find a lot of this discussion funny. Not long ago before all the 1080P PJs started appearing we would have people debating is it worth the extra $ to get the Marantz (VP12S4) over the Sharp 12K. On the lower priced pieces the same discussion exists, is the Infocus worth the extra $ over an Optoma/Benq/Mits etc.

I can't remember hearing is the Sharp 12K worth the extra $ over a Mits3100. These are in different leagues. It is like considering getting an Accord/ Camry over a Lexus/ Mercedes/ BMW for the same price.

The 12K is not perfect and has its shortcomings which have been discussed - Physical size, fan noise, and not very bright. But, if these aren't an issue for you then it is a no brainer at this price. None of the other PJs near this price point touch this for PQ.

Hope this helps.

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post #30 of 2537 Old 04-02-2007, 09:51 AM
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Anyone have comments on the Z12000MK2 in comparison with the Samsung H710? I currently have the H710 and am very happy with picture quality, but long-term reliability is a concern. I am considering the Z12000MK2 as a backup/alternate. I've read the pro reviews, and the projectors sound comparable in terms of picture quality -- but I'm not aware of any direct side-by-side comparison. Any personal experiences on how the two compare?

Randy
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