Sharp 12k MII vs. Panasonic AX100 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 100 Old 05-16-2007, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been reluctant to post my observations about how the Sharp stacks up to the Panny because I have owned the 500, the 900 and most recently the AX100, I really like Panasonics in general and have a deep appreciation that Panasonic has been at the forefront in bringing outstanding price/performance to the masses. But I have to admit that the Sharp 12K MII is at a different level, its just that simple.

Last year, I would freqently visit my friend who at the time had the 12k MII, needless to say it was an impressive state of the art picture that I felt I would probably never have in my theater due to the cost. In the fall of last year my friend replaced the 12K with Sharp's 1080p model (the 20k). Naturally I asked my buddy what he thought, to paraphrase what he said "the 20k was better but not by much and of the noticeble improvements 1080p resolution was probably the least significant". I never forgot those words. During this time when I would visit my friend I remember I use to come back home fire up my Panny and mentally adjust to what I felt was very good PQ but not state of the art like I would see over my his house.

Fast forward to April 07, I learn on this forum that the 12k MII is available for about the same money that I paid for the AX100. I asked myself if I would rather have a 2007 Honda Accord or Toyota Camy vs a 2006 Benz, Lexus, BMW etc. to me it was a no brainer so I order the 12k. The same day that I am setting up 12k another friend who planned to purchase my 100 comes by to pick it up. He stays for a while looks the 12k showing some Comcast cable material and leaves to go home and play with his new toy (the AX100). About 9 o'clock that same evening to my suprise my friend shows up again, sits down with me to watch some HD DVD's. All the while I am wondering why he isn't home watching his new 100. Ten to fifteen minutes later my friend says he just couldn't get over what he had seen earlier that day and he just had to come back. Then he says to me "I have to get me one of these and would I be willing to take back the 100"

Easter Sunday my wife who can care less about our toys comes down to the basement and literally stops in her tracks says wow about 3 times and says to me "this television is so much better than your other television". Need I say more.

Later that afternoon friends and family are over for Easter and to make a long story short they all are impressed with the picture. My son in law who was very familiar with my Panny set up says "I got to get me one of these", I still think his wife (my daughter) is still a little PO'ed at both of us. My son in law now has the 12k as his 1st PJ (unbelievable) .

Brightness

The biggest suprise with the 12k compared to the 100 is that the 12k seems to muster up a brighter picture with fewer lumens. I would say that they are roughly equivalent in brightness when the Panny is in Vivid Cinema (approx. 1000 lumens) and the 12 K putting out about five to six hundred lumens in high brightness mode with the lamp on economy. The 12k clearly has a wider dynamic range and there is no mode you can put the Panny in that will give you the top end white detail of the 12k. This is not a knock on the Panny I know this to be true with other LCD's like the Z5.

Contrast

The 12k makes it feel like I actually painted my room a darker color, even though the contrast specs are similar the 12k has much deeper and richer blacks. Shadow detail no contest.

Sharpness

Although I never felt that the 100 was lacking, the 12k has a precison and image specificity that is startling. IMO there is a difference between clarity and sharpness and generally speaking I don't think a lot of folks have had an opportunity to see what state of the art optics contributes to the clarity of the overall presentation. I know I didn't before getting the 12k

Color

Again this was another area that suprised the hell out of me simply because I never thought the Panny was doing anything wrong. The 12K seems to extend the color spectrum and gives you shadings and nuance I didn't expect especially with greens. I see much clearer distinctive shading in flesh tones etc. but what blew me away was the rendering and differences i see when looking at different baseball fields or outdoor scenes in movies that have have shots of natural landscapes with grass, trees, and other green stuff.

3D Effect

I have saved the best for last. This is an area where the 100 and I suspect most of the other < $5000 PJ's are simply outclassed. Again this is something that most can't appreciate because they have no frame of reference but once you've seen it you will know. I believe that superior optics, excellant video processing and contrast ratio contribute to a vivid 3 dimensionallity that is uncanny. You see background details and levels that with lesser PJ's your brain tells you to ignore because it has to work too hard to resolve. Again for those of you who have been fortunate enough to see this class of projector understand what I mean.

Noise Level

The 12k is not a quiet projector. I have the Toshiba XA 1 and I always felt that the AX 100 was actually quieter than the DVD player. The 12K is noticeably louder than both.
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post #2 of 100 Old 05-16-2007, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erniec View Post

I have been reluctant to post my observations about how the Sharp stacks up to the Panny because I have owned the 500, the 900 and most recently the AX100, I really like Panasonics in general and have a deep appreciation that Panasonic has been at the forefront in bringing outstanding price/performance to the masses. But I have to admit that the Sharp 12K MII is at a different level, its just that simple.

Last year, I would freqently visit my friend who at the time had the 12k MII, needless to say it was an impressive state of the art picture that I felt I would probably never have in my theater due to the cost. In the fall of last year my friend replaced the 12K with Sharp's 1080p model (the 20k). Naturally I asked my buddy what he thought, to paraphrase he said "the 20k was better but not by much and of the noticeble improvements 1080p resolution was probably the least significant". I never forgot those words. During this time when I would visit my friend I remember I use to come back home fire up my Panny and mentally adjust to what I felt was very good PQ but not state of the art like I would see over my his house.

Fast forward to April 07, I learn on this forum that the 12k MII is available for about the same money that I paid for the AX100. I asked myself if I would rather have a 2007 Honda Accord or Toyota Camy vs a 2006 Benz, Lexus etc. to me it was a no brainer and I order the 12k. The same day the I am setting up 12k another friend who planned to purchase my 100 come by to pick it up. He stays for a while looks the 12k showing some Comcast cable material and leaves to go home and play with his new toy (the 100). About 9 o'clock the same evening to my suprise my friend shows up again, sits down with me to watch some HD DVD's. All the while I am wondering why he isn't home watching his new 100. Ten to fifteen minutes later my friend says he just couldn't get over what he had seen earlier that day so he just had to come back. Then he says to me "I have to get me one of these and would I be willing to take back the 100"

Easter Sunday my wife who can care less about our toys comes down to the basement and literally stops in her tracks says wow about 3 times and says to me "this television is so much better than your other television". Need I say more.

Later that afternoon friends and family are over for Easter and to make a long story short they all are impressed with the picture. My son in law who was very familiar with my Panny set up says "I got to get me one of these", I still think his wife (my daughter) is still a little PO'ed at both of us. My son in law now has the 12k as his 1st PJ (unbelievable) .

Brightness

The biggest suprise with the 12k compared to the 100 is that the 12k seems to muster up a brighter picture with fewer lumens. I would say that they are roughly equivalent in brightness when the Panny is in Vivid Cinema (approx. 1000 lumens) and the 12 K putting out about five to six hundred lumens in high brightness mode with the lamp on economy. The 12k clearly has a wider dynamic range and there is no mode you can put the Panny in that will give you top end white detail of the 12k. This is not a knock on the Panny I know this to be true with other LCD's like the Z5.

Contrast

The 12k makes it feel like I actually painted my room a darker color, even though the contast specs are similar the 12k has much deeper and richer blacks. Shadow detail no contest.

Sharpness

Although I never felt that the 100 was lacking, the 12k has a precison and image specificity that is startling. IMO there is a difference between clarity and sharpness and generally speaking I don't think a lot of folks have had an opportunity to see what state of the art optics contributes to the clarity overall presentation. I know i didn't before getting the 12k

3D Effect

I have saved the best for last. This is an area where the 100 and I suspect most of the other < $5000 PJ's are simply outclassed. Again this is something that most can't appreciate because they have no frame of reference but once you've seen it you will know. I believe that superior optics, excellant video processing and contrast ratio contribute to a vivid 3 dimensionallity that is uncanny. You see background details and levels that with lesser PJ's your brain tells you to ignore because it has to work too hard to resolve. Again for those of you who have been fortunate enough to see this class of projector understand what I mean.

Noise Level

The 12k is not a quiet projector. I have the Toshiba XA 1 and I always felt that the AX 100 was actually quieter than the DVD player. The 12K is noticeably louder than both.

Excellent review. I am currently building a dedicated HT room around this PJ. Could you share more about your setup. What type of screen? Distance and size. Light controlled? Distance for viewing, etc. I have only watched it on wall so far, in less than ideal conditions and I agree with you %100. It looked like I had another room in my house on the wall. It was actually kind of freaky.

Thanks for the great review!
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post #3 of 100 Old 05-16-2007, 04:36 PM
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Noise Level

The 12k is not a quiet projector. I have the Toshiba XA 1 and I always felt that the AX 100 was actually quieter than the DVD player. The 12K is noticeably louder than both.

The 12k seems to be a killer projector, but 33dB is a deal killer for many many people. The RS1 is quieter and still too noisy for many.

I wish there was something on the 12k level and price, which was quieter.

I wonder how it compares to the Mitsubish HC3100, which will also kill the AE100 for contrast and 3D effect, and much much quieter than the 12k.
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post #4 of 100 Old 05-16-2007, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

The 12k seems to be a killer projector, but 33dB is a deal killer for many many people. The RS1 is quieter and still too noisy for many.

I wish there was something on the 12k level and price, which was quieter.

I wonder how it compares to the Mitsubish HC3100, which will also kill the AE100 for contrast and 3D effect, and much much quieter than the 12k.

I guess the white noise bother me less than the constant yapping that goes on in the the theaters now.
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post #5 of 100 Old 05-16-2007, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by politicalpunk View Post

Excellent review. I am currently building a dedicated HT room around this PJ. Could you share more about your setup. What type of screen? Distance and size. Light controlled? Distance for viewing, etc. I have only watched it on wall so far, in less than ideal conditions and I agree with you %100. It looked like I had another room in my house on the wall. It was actually kind of freaky.

Thanks for the great review!

I have a 96" Carada Brilliant White, the Shap is ceiling mounted about 15 feet from the screen and I sit about 13 feet from the screen. Previous to the brilliant white material I had the Carada high contrast gray material. The 12k handled this very dark gray screen easily but it had to be in high brightness mode. With the BW material I found that I could step the iris back to high contrast mode but most of the time I prefer mid-contrast mode for that extra little pop, with only barely noticeable increase in black level. My room is a dark gray color with mid to dark gray carpet totally light controlled
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post #6 of 100 Old 05-17-2007, 08:36 AM
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As a former happy LCD owner who now owns the 12k, I agree with everything that you are saying.

LCD PJs do a nice job but even the best of them don't offer the black levels or three dimensionality of the 12k.

Like you, I was perfectly happy with my LCD projector until I saw what the 12k can do. It really opened my eyes.

Some people just can't accomodate the 12k either because they see rainbows or because of throw distance or because of noise issues. If the 12k works in your setup it throws an amazing picture that really holds its own with the current cream of the crop.

Enjoy your 12k.

Affable Nitwit
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post #7 of 100 Old 05-17-2007, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

Some people just can't accomodate the 12k either because they see rainbows or because of throw distance or because of noise issues. If the 12k works in your setup it throws an amazing picture that really holds its own with the current cream of the crop.

Enjoy your 12k.

Good points. The 12K optics help set it apart.
Alternatively, if you can employ a 'short' throw PJ in your setup, no one should overlook the z-3000/dt-500 option. They are brighter, less noisey, and support HDMI-HDCP. All three do Sharp proud, the 500 being the best value.
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post #8 of 100 Old 05-17-2007, 09:55 AM
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We already know DLP throws a better picture than LCD, the question is if the 12k is any better than other DLPs, but this question hasn't been answered by anyone in this thread.
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post #9 of 100 Old 05-17-2007, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

We already know DLP throws a better picture than LCD, the question is if the 12k is any better than other DLPs, but this question hasn't been answered by anyone in this thread.


I think it has been well established over time where Sharp's position is in the DLP heiarchy. Wasn't that long ago that this model was challenging the $20,000 Marantz for king of the DLP hill. As for other technologies following are comments from Bob Sorel who owns the RS-1 and Ruby and hangs out in the >$3000 forum.

Quote from Bob Sorel

[I know that this is off topic, but from just a couple of hours that I had to set it up and eyeball it (my instruments won't be back for about a week), I was EXTREMELY impressed! Even though I can tell that the 12k will need proper calibration, even right out of the box the colors were far more accurate than what I see from the RS-1 (and better than the Ruby, too!). It was just so nice to have ACCURATE colors again, something I have missed since my InFocus 7210.

And again, I haven't had a chance to play with it, but this thing has a FULL CMS!!! The user has what looks like complete control of saturation, hue, and luminance of all 6 colors (primaries and secondaries), as well as the ability to create custom gamma curves. Being a 1 chip DLP it is sharp as can be and the black level is very competitive to the RS-1. It appears to have much higher ANSI CR than the RS-1, so the intrascene contrast is terrific!

The only problems I could see at first viewing were the 720p resolution and physical noise of the projector. Blown up on a 139" wide screen I can see pixel structure at 1.1X screen width, and the projector is considerably louder than the RS-1, though with its low pitched sound it is not as irritating as the high pitched whine of some color wheels.

My initial impressions are that this has got to be the steal of the century for people who are not susceptible to rainbows (I only see them occasionally, and am never bothered by them), who can use a long throw, and are looking to light up a moderately sized screen. It has great blacks, excellent on/off and ANSI contrast, superb optics, extremely sharp picture, excellent, accurate color rendition, and most pertinent to this thread, a fully functional CMS...

I plan on talking about this projector more once I perform a full calibration on it.]

Quote:
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post #10 of 100 Old 05-18-2007, 12:21 AM
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Well, I just wish there was something that could be done in order to silence the 12k... Bob say it is *considerably* louder than the RS-1, that's crazy !!!
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post #11 of 100 Old 05-18-2007, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

Well, I just wish there was something that could be done in order to silence the 12k... Bob say it is *considerably* louder than the RS-1, that's crazy !!!

The fact that reports on RS-1's relative loudness is all over the place with some users commenting that theirs are whisper quiet while others complain suggests that maybe the RS-1 is not a good baseline to start with.

I don't think one can argue that, Sharp's are the quietest PJ's you can use epecially if you are going to ceiling mount. I have noticed that if you shelf mount Sharp's they are significantly quieter. My two friends (one has the 20k the other 12k mII) have theirs on shelves on the back wall of the room almost but not quite directly above their viewing positions. As I said the difference in their set-ups and mine as far as loudness is concerned is very noticeable.
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post #12 of 100 Old 05-18-2007, 10:56 AM
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Don't lose the perspective that this is a high end DLP machine that sold for well over $5k not too long ago. Thanks to Sharp (and/or the warehouse store who shall remain nameless) for whatever reason to bring the price to this level. I consider this deal pretty close to a miracle. I am sure it affected a lot of other mid/high end 720p DLP sales as well. The real question is, how is the Sharp compared to the Mit 3000, IN76, Benq 8720 or other DLPs?
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post #13 of 100 Old 05-18-2007, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by erniec View Post

But I have to admit that the Sharp 12K MII is at a different level, its just that simple.

That should not be surprising. We should remember that before the Ruby hit the market in Nov '05 the 12K II, along with the Yamaha 1300 and the Marantz S4 were considered as having arguably the best pq on the planet. The all had MSRPs > $11K!

Like Bob, I also own a Ruby along with the 12K II. I agree that the 12k II at the "warehouse" price is an outstanding value, however IMO the Ruby is clearly better.
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post #14 of 100 Old 05-18-2007, 11:31 AM
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Can someone record the fan noise so we have some idea of what it sounds like? I once bought PC cooling supplies from a website, sidewindercomputers.com I think, they have recordings of all the fans so you could hear how loud they are. Pretty cool.
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post #15 of 100 Old 05-18-2007, 12:36 PM
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The only neg I read about the sharp is it wasn't really suited for larger screens.

I have a dedicated room, 100% light control. Front wall is black. Side walls and ceiling are a dark dark brown. Room is 14x29. Seating is at 18 & 25'. Projector would be mounted about 15 feet back.

But - I'm projecting on a 119" screen. Granted, my screen is a high power. And I do have 100% light control.

But is the sharp bright enough for this?

I could possibly be convinced to return my ax100.

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The only neg I read about the sharp is it wasn't really suited for larger screens.

I have a dedicated room, 100% light control. Front wall is black. Side walls and ceiling are a dark dark brown. Room is 14x29. Seating is at 18 & 25'. Projector would be mounted about 15 feet back.

But - I'm projecting on a 119" screen. Granted, my screen is a high power. And I do have 100% light control.

But is the sharp bright enough for this?

I could possibly be convinced to return my ax100.


My friend had the 12K MII and now has the 20K uses a 123 inch Stewart Ultramat 150 which is 1.5 gain screen and his picture is very bright in econo-bulb on, high brightness mode. With your Highpower I would have to think that you will have a very bright picture, probably brighter than his. In fact I have another friend who thinks the Sharp on the 123 inch Ultramat is too bright but I don't agee.

As I said in my review I found the Sharp produced about the same or brighter brightness levels as my AX100 did with about half the lumens. On the Panny Vivid cinema puts out about 1000 lumens the Sharp in high brightness econ-bulb on puts out about 5 to 600 lumens but the Sharp looks brighter, especially the top end whites.
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post #17 of 100 Old 05-18-2007, 09:51 PM
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I'm very tempted. Very tempted.

I might make the switch after the sopranos season is over. I figure the entire swap will take up to 3 weeks, so I gotta be prepared to be without for that time period.

Just need to look at the manual and see if the offset and shift from the sharp will fit my room. I doubt I'll have a problem though.

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post #18 of 100 Old 05-18-2007, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erniec View Post

As I said in my review I found the Sharp produced about the same or brighter brightness levels as my AX100 did with about half the lumens. On the Panny Vivid cinema puts out about 1000 lumens the Sharp in high brightness econ-bulb on puts out about 5 to 600 lumens but the Sharp looks brighter, especially the top end whites.

The DI on the AX100 is probably ramping down the brightness for a better contrast ratio... unless you're talking about full-field white. The odd thing about the eye is that whites always look 100% white until you put a brighter white up next to it. The same is true for black level, however, since there is rarely a bright white source in a HT, and there is plenty of black, the black level is much more important.

With my AX100, I definitely notice the foggy look and sometimes see off-colors, so I've ordered a Sharp. This should be a fun comparison. I work in the AV industry (new to it, though), so I'll invite a few of the the guys I work with over to hear their thoughts between the two, as well. They've been in the industry for a while now, so I value their opinions.
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post #19 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 07:23 AM
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Regarding the new price of the 12k, Cedia 2007 is just 14 weeks away, it is possible that Sharp knows something that we don't.

Let's say that if soon more stores will come out with this new price for the 12k, it will be a strong evidence that something is cooking for Cedia 2007.
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post #20 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by erniec View Post

I have been reluctant to post my observations about how the Sharp stacks up to the Panny because I have owned the 500, the 900 and most recently the AX100, I really like Panasonics in general and have a deep appreciation that Panasonic has been at the forefront in bringing outstanding price/performance to the masses. But I have to admit that the Sharp 12K MII is at a different level, its just that simple.

Last year, I would freqently visit my friend who at the time had the 12k MII, needless to say it was an impressive state of the art picture that I felt I would probably never have in my theater due to the cost. In the fall of last year my friend replaced the 12K with Sharp's 1080p model (the 20k). Naturally I asked my buddy what he thought, to paraphrase what he said "the 20k was better but not by much and of the noticeble improvements 1080p resolution was probably the least significant". I never forgot those words. During this time when I would visit my friend I remember I use to come back home fire up my Panny and mentally adjust to what I felt was very good PQ but not state of the art like I would see over my his house.

Fast forward to April 07, I learn on this forum that the 12k MII is available for about the same money that I paid for the AX100. I asked myself if I would rather have a 2007 Honda Accord or Toyota Camy vs a 2006 Benz, Lexus, BMW etc. to me it was a no brainer so I order the 12k. The same day that I am setting up 12k another friend who planned to purchase my 100 comes by to pick it up. He stays for a while looks the 12k showing some Comcast cable material and leaves to go home and play with his new toy (the AX100). About 9 o'clock that same evening to my suprise my friend shows up again, sits down with me to watch some HD DVD's. All the while I am wondering why he isn't home watching his new 100. Ten to fifteen minutes later my friend says he just couldn't get over what he had seen earlier that day and he just had to come back. Then he says to me "I have to get me one of these and would I be willing to take back the 100"

Easter Sunday my wife who can care less about our toys comes down to the basement and literally stops in her tracks says wow about 3 times and says to me "this television is so much better than your other television". Need I say more.

Later that afternoon friends and family are over for Easter and to make a long story short they all are impressed with the picture. My son in law who was very familiar with my Panny set up says "I got to get me one of these", I still think his wife (my daughter) is still a little PO'ed at both of us. My son in law now has the 12k as his 1st PJ (unbelievable) .

Brightness

The biggest suprise with the 12k compared to the 100 is that the 12k seems to muster up a brighter picture with fewer lumens. I would say that they are roughly equivalent in brightness when the Panny is in Vivid Cinema (approx. 1000 lumens) and the 12 K putting out about five to six hundred lumens in high brightness mode with the lamp on economy. The 12k clearly has a wider dynamic range and there is no mode you can put the Panny in that will give you the top end white detail of the 12k. This is not a knock on the Panny I know this to be true with other LCD's like the Z5.

Contrast

The 12k makes it feel like I actually painted my room a darker color, even though the contrast specs are similar the 12k has much deeper and richer blacks. Shadow detail no contest.

Sharpness

Although I never felt that the 100 was lacking, the 12k has a precison and image specificity that is startling. IMO there is a difference between clarity and sharpness and generally speaking I don't think a lot of folks have had an opportunity to see what state of the art optics contributes to the clarity of the overall presentation. I know I didn't before getting the 12k

Color

Again this was another area that suprised the hell out of me simply because I never thought the Panny was doing anything wrong. The 12K seems to extend the color spectrum and gives you shadings and nuance I didn't expect especially with greens. I see much clearer distinctive shading in flesh tones etc. but what blew me away was the rendering and differences i see when looking at different baseball fields or outdoor scenes in movies that have have shots of natural landscapes with grass, trees, and other green stuff.

3D Effect

I have saved the best for last. This is an area where the 100 and I suspect most of the other < $5000 PJ's are simply outclassed. Again this is something that most can't appreciate because they have no frame of reference but once you've seen it you will know. I believe that superior optics, excellant video processing and contrast ratio contribute to a vivid 3 dimensionallity that is uncanny. You see background details and levels that with lesser PJ's your brain tells you to ignore because it has to work too hard to resolve. Again for those of you who have been fortunate enough to see this class of projector understand what I mean.

Noise Level

The 12k is not a quiet projector. I have the Toshiba XA 1 and I always felt that the AX 100 was actually quieter than the DVD player. The 12K is noticeably louder than both.

Interesting post. Still, I'm not completely sure what PJ you're talking about. Is this the one: Sharp XV-Z12000 MARK II? If so, at $5000, it is hardly within the AX-100's price-range. I mean, I'd love to try out the Sharp (since I'm currently considering the AX-100) but I can get the Panny for 1200 dollars/euro, and I highly doubt the Sharp will approach this pricetag anytime soon. What's the best deal you can get it for at this moment?

Also, had you not seen the Sharp, do you think you still would've been impressed by the AX-100? Or would you have shopped around for something else, regardless?
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post #21 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_R View Post

Interesting post. Still, I'm not completely sure what PJ you're talking about. Is this the one: Sharp XV-Z12000 MARK II? If so, at $5000, it is hardly within the AX-100's price-range. I mean, I'd love to try out the Sharp (since I'm currently considering the AX-100) but I can get the Panny for 1200 dollars/euro, and I highly doubt the Sharp will approach this pricetag anytime soon. What's the best deal you can get it for at this moment?

Also, had you not seen the Sharp, do you think you still would've been impressed by the AX-100? Or would you have shopped around for something else, regardless?

Yes, the 12K MK2- it is available for 3K LESS than your stated figure.(in the US)

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post #22 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 12:19 PM
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If you go to a big warehouse store's website (not Sam's Club, not BJ's, but XXXXXX) the Sharp is listed at $1999.99, There's also Sharp's other projector the DT-500 that is putting an assault on the low end at around $1200. Both are outstanding projectors in terms of contrast ratio. The Sharp 12k is an unreal opportunity if you're looking to spend around $2000. This was the flagship model well into the $10000 range. You've got to love advancement. And then of course is the performance/value champ the Mitsubishi HD1000 at $850 or less.

What Sharp's move signals to me is 1080P is coming to $2000 sooner than expected and are worried they are going to be left with a projector in a price void. This will create a new debate over whether 1080P resolution in a mediocre projector can trumph 720P in a outstanding projector. On the 720P side it seems hard to find a better competitor than the Sharp 12K.
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Originally Posted by Nathan Troutman View Post

If you go to a big warehouse store's website (not Sam's Club, not BJ's, but XXXXXX) the Sharp is listed at $1999.99, There's also Sharp's other projector the DT-500 that is putting an assault on the low end at around $1200. Both are outstanding projectors in terms of contrast ratio. The Sharp 12k is an unreal opportunity if you're looking to spend around $2000. This was the flagship model well into the $10000 range. You've got to love advancement. And then of course is the performance/value champ the Mitsubishi HD1000 at $850 or less.

What Sharp's move signals to me is 1080P is coming to $2000 sooner than expected and are worried they are going to be left with a projector in a price void. This will create a new debate over whether 1080P resolution in a mediocre projector can trumph 720P in a outstanding projector. On the 720P side it seems hard to find a better competitor than the Sharp 12K.

I found it . Looks good, indeed. If only they would ship overseas... (and I had about 500 dollars more to spend ). Hmm, maybe I should take a look at that DT-500 then. Perhaps I can find a(n internet) place around here that has these on offer. How does that one (DT-500) stack up to the Panny AX100?

Anyway, thanks for your reply, Nathan.
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post #24 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 12:58 PM
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Go to projectorreviews.com and look up Art's review of Sharp's Z3000. The Z3000 and the DT-500 are almost identical (the Z3000 has a second Iris for further improving contrast which Art didn't prefer for his testing.) I can't offer any advice since I haven't seen either projector in action. But the DT-500 is certainly worth looking at. The best price I've found so far is $1,299.88 from a very reputable seller. There's also a great DT-500 thread here at AVS. TONS of info. That's where I first found out about it.
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post #25 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 01:23 PM
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If the DT500 will fit your room without hassle, it produces a very nice picture.
I liked mine better than the AX100 I have now, so if the 12K MK2 is better than the 500, I don't really see much of a comparison.
JMO

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post #26 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_R View Post

Interesting post. Still, I'm not completely sure what PJ you're talking about. Is this the one: Sharp XV-Z12000 MARK II? If so, at $5000, it is hardly within the AX-100's price-range. I mean, I'd love to try out the Sharp (since I'm currently considering the AX-100) but I can get the Panny for 1200 dollars/euro, and I highly doubt the Sharp will approach this pricetag anytime soon. What's the best deal you can get it for at this moment?

Also, had you not seen the Sharp, do you think you still would've been impressed by the AX-100? Or would you have shopped around for something else, regardless?

If the Sharp didn't show up at the Unbelivable price, I would still own the AX 100 and be content since it is a great PJ, the Sharp is just better by a wide margin
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post #27 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 05:50 PM
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It just highlights what an amazing deal this is. The fact that you compared the Sharp to the Panny is a moot point and is unfortunate for the Panny. I am sure you can compare the Sharp to any pj in the $2k range and the Sharp will have significantly better PQ.
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Potential buyers need to know that the Sharp has significant issues, that may or may not negate it's great PQ. After researching this PJ I found that the majority of users found it loud, as in from "very" loud to "bloody" loud! If you are not the type who is bothered by a loud PJ, or your mounting situation let's you sit far away, then this might not matter. Also, it's a very large PJ, which can be a problem if mounted overhead, especially since it needs to be at screen level. The lens shift is one screen height, so it needs to be at the top, bottom, or in between the screen borders. This means that table or shelf mounting is cool, but it will hang down quite a bit from the ceiling. Finally, it's on the dim side in "best" mode, iris closed and eco-mode. If you have a large screen and/or unity gain (or less) you might not be happy, so think twice before jumping on this bargain.

Edit: The "Forbidden" warehouse offers a 90 day return, so you might want to try it and see what the story is firsthand.
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post #29 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 07:36 PM
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Can you get a 100"screen from 10 feet?

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post #30 of 100 Old 05-19-2007, 07:40 PM
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Aloha All,

I just returned from a trip and ordered another one of these beasts. I hope I do not have the bulb flicker I had in the last one.

I was thinking of getting a long run of component this time so I can run my oppo at 480i and let the sharp do all the scaling.

Will I miss anything by ditching my HDMI to DVI cable? So far I have found HDMI cables to be very finicky.

I think it was CMRA that said using a VGA breakout cable with his Sharp DT-500 is even better. Is this the general consensus? Anyone else tried it with the MKII?

Thanks,

bdbaba
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