*Official* Optoma HD80 thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 09:34 AM
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Yeah, at that size the bottom of your screen is gonna be very close, if not practically at the floor.

Don't use gloss white! Flat/matte/satin. You should ask over in the screen forum what brand to use.

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post #632 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

sRGB was only for component 1080i if you use it for others signals it's totally different. For HDMI 1080i I tuned the advanced numbers, you could use video gamma to lighten it up. When I get my hot little hands on my own machine I'll have more time to try all the signals. Optoma just gave me two weeks with the demo.

Hey Projector Central just went more bonkers over the HD80, Editors pick now.

Do you have still have the HDMI settings for comparison?

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post #633 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOj View Post

Also, as for ceiling mounting this projector... I too have 7.5 foot celings from the drop ceiling tile. Does this mean that the projector will have to come down around 19.44" for my screen to start near the very top of my celing?

Honestly, with a 7.5 foot ceiling you may have trouble with this projector. Ceiling mounted, the top of the image will be 36% of the screen height below the lens center. So for a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen (image height = 49"), you're talking nearly 18" below lens center, plus about 6" from ceiling to lens. So you're talking about the bottom of the screen being just over 6 feet down from the ceiling - with 7.5 foot ceiling that is pretty low. With a bigger screen, it's just going to be lower of course. My ceiling is 8.5 feet so I'm looking at the bottom of the image being about 30" up, which is about right, and I decided to back down from thinking of a 106" screen.

You might want to look into the Benq W9000, which not only has no offset (projects more straight ahead than down, from a ceiling mount), but lens shift that lets you place the projector anywhere within the height of the image.
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post #634 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

Do you have still have the HDMI settings for comparison?

"Some tuning tips, If you use component for 1080i. OTB sRGB is very close to D65k and 2.2gamma.

Here's numbers from tuning component 1080i in the film mode user colorfacts and the Accupel. I had to lower user contrast about 10 numbers to get away from blowing out the reds in the high end of the grayscale.

User / User color temp
Contrast 37
Brightness 50
Color 50

Advanced
Degamma film
Gamma 0

Red gain 127
100
94
Red bias 125
127
126

HDMI 1080i D65k settings. Cinnema Film modes
Contrast 32
Brightness 49
Color 52
Tini 50
gamma -2

Color temp User
Red gain 126
100
93
Red bias 127
127
128
"

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post #635 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 12:17 PM
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Quote:


You might want to look into the Benq W9000, which not only has no offset (projects more straight ahead than down, from a ceiling mount), but lens shift that lets you place the projector anywhere within the height of the image.

Well, I hope I can make it work since I have already ordered it. I'll let you guys know... if I have to then I will just have to settle for a smaller screen. I'm currently using a 96" screen, so we will see. Thanks for the info.
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post #636 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOj View Post

Well, I hope I can make it work since I have already ordered it. I'll let you guys know... if I have to then I will just have to settle for a smaller screen. I'm currently using a 96" screen, so we will see. Thanks for the info.

As you have already ordered the projector I might suggest that you consider "tilting" the projector vertically when you get it mounted to bring the top of the image up closer to the ceiling where you want it.

I do not know about the HD80, but some projectors seem to not have a "big" problem with tilting. After you tilt the projector vertically you will probably have an image that is slightly trapezoidal... larger at the top than at the bottom. Quite often this out of square condition can be hidden quite easily by the black velvet border around the screen. I would at least try that before using keystone to square the image.

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post #637 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOj View Post

Well, I hope I can make it work since I have already ordered it. I'll let you guys know... if I have to then I will just have to settle for a smaller screen. I'm currently using a 96" screen, so we will see. Thanks for the info.

If you use a 106" diag with 7.5' ceilings the bottom of the screen will be up 15" from the floor, that's using a flush mount that will put the lens 6" down from the ceiling. You could tilt the PJ up a bit if you want the screen higher and use the black border to soak up the side angle rather than use keystone. I had to do that with the NEC HT1000, didn't bother me too much.

Edit: Just saw Steve and I think along the same lines, you'll be able to make it work with a 106".

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post #638 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 01:44 PM
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Steve and Guitarman - your posts make me feel better about my purchase. I think I could live with a little tilt if I have to. I'll let everyone know how it turns out, the projector should be here sometime next week.

-Joey
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post #639 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 02:47 PM
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Don't forget you can also tilt the screen if you have to tilt the pj. This works very well with up to 15 degrees of tilt.
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post #640 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOj View Post

Thanks for the reply Fleaman... I'm looking to project a 110"-120" screen. Yeah, the 19.44" measurement came from a another forum members post and was in reference to a 120" screen. As for the color, since I'm using a painted screen what type of white paint would you reccomend? I would assume a satin or matte finish as gloss would probably have too many brightspots...

-Joey

ask the guys in the DIY screen for the best advice..
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post #641 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lonely Surfer View Post

Those frames look close enough to me to draw conclusions. 99% of the time if two frames are within several frames of each other, conditions are virtually identical.

I've evaluated a lot of images over the years. Here the top picture (JVC) walks away in picture quality. The difference between a midrange and high end display. Both are excellent values in their price range.
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post #642 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

I've evaluated a lot of images over the years. Here the top picture (JVC) walks away in picture quality. The difference between a midrange and high end display. Both are excellent values in their price range.

Since you are so good are at it what do you see that makes the JVC so superior? I'll be curious to see if I saw the same thing in the actual images.
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post #643 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

They're both a .95" large chip and I couldn't really see a difference in black or white level, resolution was the same. You do get the scaler with the HD81.

So the HD80 is the new h78DC3 (renamed H79). Although the HD80 supposedly has a DC2 chip...but who knows....
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post #644 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

I've evaluated a lot of images over the years. Here the top picture (JVC) walks away in picture quality. The difference between a midrange and high end display. Both are excellent values in their price range.

The top picture actually came from a Sony, how do you feel about it now?
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post #645 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 06:03 PM
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Tom (Gman),

Any idea if they have any intention of producing a model with a shorter throw? This is the perfect PJ for an application I have, but the throw isn't even close to working for me...
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post #646 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 07:17 PM
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They told me there will be cheaper models with shorter throws and lens shift. A 1080 chip but a different one, in the future.

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post #647 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

They told me there will be cheaper models with shorter throws and lens shift. A 1080 chip but a different one, in the future.

Will the future model have *gulp* horizontal len shift?
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post #648 of 3542 Old 08-06-2007, 10:23 PM
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Well the two screen shots certainly look different. I might be able to arrive at the conclusion that one is slightly better than the other, but no where close to saying that one walks away with better PQ. I guess some people are better at judging projector PQ by looking at screen shots.
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post #649 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOj View Post

I...as for ceiling mounting this projector... I too have 7.5 foot celings from the drop ceiling tile. Does this mean that the projector will have to come down around 19.44" for my screen to start near the very top of my celing?

thanks,

Joey


We just finished the install - 96-inch screen - 7.5' drop ceiling. No problem at our place. Your results might be different but here's a link to the video we made of the install process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGhf0JMSXZo
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post #650 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Since you are so good are at it what do you see that makes the JVC so superior? I'll be curious to see if I saw the same thing in the actual images.

The JVC tonal range graduation is very smooth, natural and pleasing. The bottom picture is more contrast(y) with the highlights washed out. As others have said the top photos shows more low level detail too. The colors look pretty similar.
Notice the hair on the side of his head the bottom photo. Is his hair white? A classic case of overemphasized false detail fooling the public

The real question is what type of DLP device is TI using in the HD80? They did find ways to cut this DLP chip manufacturing cost. No one who knows is saying. Guitarman says he can't see a difference as compared to the DarkChip III DLP. Remember the HD81 had disappointing contrast and black level and it used the superior DCIII. So I would not trust his objectivity here. Better to wait for Ultimate AV review for a more critical perspective.

Another strategy is to check out the return policy at your local mass market retailer. If their is no restocking fee then what is their to lose? Time? Do you trust your own judgment enough? But remember purchasing any front projector is a gamble.
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post #651 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

The JVC tonal range graduation is very smooth, natural and pleasing.

Actually that's the image being less sharp. You can obtain the same look with the HD80 by defocusing.

Quote:


The bottom picture is more contrast(y) with the highlights washed out.

Yes the camera had a harder time capturing the dynamic range of the HD80. If you wanted to you could simply raise Brightness and reduce Contrast to make the HD80 look like the JVC.

Quote:


As others have said the top photos shows more low level detail too. The colors look pretty similar.

What detail is that?

Quote:


Notice the hair on the side of his head the bottom photo. Is his hair white? A classic case of overemphasized false detail fooling the public

Actually the hair isn't white it simply is sharper and has more contrast.

Overall you seem to favor an image with less detail and contrast. That being the case I can see where you would favor the JVC image.

Come to think of it you would probably prefer the Pearl. It had more of what you are looking for...


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Quote:
Originally Posted by btokars View Post

We just finished the install - 96-inch screen - 7.5' drop ceiling. No problem at our place. Your results might be different but here's a link to the video we made of the install process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGhf0JMSXZo

Thats AWESOME!!! Talk about inspiration!!! I am sooooooo going to get one of these!!!
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post #653 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by btokars View Post

We just finished the install - 96-inch screen - 7.5' drop ceiling. No problem at our place. Your results might be different but here's a link to the video we made of the install process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGhf0JMSXZo

LOL. I just watched this. Nice video.

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post #654 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckong View Post

Will the future model have *gulp* horizontal len shift?

Vertical only.

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post #655 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

....The bottom picture is more contrast(y) with the highlights washed out...

I don't know how more contrast(y) could be a bad thing

As for the highlights being washed out...you mean the whites? Just a classic case of calibration....turn the brightness down a little.

From the get go Charles said neither of the PJ's were calibrated...so of course they will look different, one being a little washed out on the very bright white parts.

I don't know, doesn't seem like you've mentioned anything big here...or even anything beyond calibration issues that's much of a performance difference (at least from these screen shots). The low level detail differences (shadow detail?) are very hard to see on my monitor....I can Barely see that the JVC might have a so very slight advantage...but these frames aren't even identical, so who knows.

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post #656 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 10:09 AM
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Guys the HD80 sounds like a great projector for it's price.
The screenshots look very impressive.

In previous DLP generations I've always found DLP superior to LCD in every aspect of PQ ranging from better intrascene ansi to that 3D image with one exception. Dithering. Never liked the crawling ants effect on dark to black scenes.

This might have changed or improved with the latest gen DLPs.
How well in your opinion does the new HD80 handle dithering ?

Joe
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post #657 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 10:44 AM
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The HD80 has a ND(G?) segment in the color wheel, so it should have significantly less dithering than projectors without this segment. Not quite as good as the H79 which has two, but it should be better than the HD7100, which has none, and the HD70, HD72, HD73, and HD81 which have white segments, instead. It should be on par, or better, than other manufacturer's projectors.
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post #658 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Black View Post

Guys the HD80 sounds like a great projector for it's price.
The screenshots look very impressive.

In previous DLP generations I've always found DLP superior to LCD in every aspect of PQ ranging from better intrascene ansi to that 3D image with one exception. Dithering. Never liked the crawling ants effect on dark to black scenes.

This might have changed or improved with the latest gen DLPs.
How well in your opinion does the new HD80 handle dithering ?

Joe

I'd like to know too. I hate dithering...even if I have to walk up to the screen to see it (stupid, I know).

Kris Deering from Secrets of HT said that none of the new 1080p projectors have any dithering http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post11210617

....but he hasn't seen the HD80 yet.

There is MUCH more to dithering possibilities than the number and types of segments on the color wheel---CW speed, processor power, etc. There are plenty of DLP PJ's that have less dithering with less segments than other PJ's.

Fleaman
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post #659 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

I'd like to know too. I hate dithering...even if I have to walk up to the screen to see it (stupid, I know).

Kris Deering from Secrets of HT said that none of the new 1080p projectors have any dithering http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post11210617

....but he hasn't seen the HD80 yet.

There is MUCH more to dithering possibilities than the number and types of segments on the color wheel---CW speed, processor power, etc. There are plenty of DLP PJ's that have less dithering with less segments than other PJ's.

Fleaman

I agree although the CW segment setup will help some, it's the entire combination of the CW, processor, lens and general design that will dictate the outcome.

I'm curious to hear about how well the HD80 handles dithering from guys who have a pretty good handle on this like Charles and gman or anyone else that has one they can check out using very dark scenes.

Joe
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post #660 of 3542 Old 08-07-2007, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Actually the hair isn't white it simply is sharper and has more contrast.

The natural detail is there in a optimized high quality 1920*1080 display system given a high quality source. There is no need to boost the high frequencies.

Try using a PC set to 1920*1080 with single line text (file explorer works great) to see if the display processing is adding false outlining and sharping. Some sharpness controls need to be set to zero or even negative values.
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