Samsung SP-H710AE Great Deal! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkeung View Post

I took a chance with this PJ because:

1. Price is relative low and is the only dlp PJ with lens shift in this price range.
2. I've shopping for a PJ to replace the PB6200.
3. It's been around for a couple of years and most of the QC problems, except those generic ones, should have been fixed, hopefully.
4. All PJ have problems. In general, you'll find more complaint posts than praise ones.
5. I use a Toshiba A2 with DVI to HDMI adapter to a 4 year old Mits RPTV with no problem.
6. All professional reviews praised the great coloraccuracy and 'film like' quality.
7. I have a imperfect room - light controlled but with light color wall and white ceiling (basement), and I don't think I would get good black levels with a bright PJ. The PB6200 is very bright but the black level, not great to begin with, suffers more with reflected lights.
8. By the time the bulb is dim enough, I would be shopping for a new PJ anyway, probably a 1080p < $1000. I have > 1000 hr in the PB6200 and I don't think it has lost lumens.
9. I believe this is the best under $1000 PJ in the market.
10. I have seen a Z5 and a H70 and not impressed.
11. I don't see rainbows even with my PB6200.
12. I don't have perfect vision and color perception and don't need a perfect PJ.
13. I am limited by ceiling height and throw distance, and this PJ fits like a glove.
14. I'd rather gamble with a established good $1000 PJ with know weakesses than a new good $4000 PJ with unknowns. I can throw away a $1000 PJ after 2 years, but not a $4000 one.
15. I've two Samsung HDTV tuners, 46" LCD and they actually stand behind their products, in my experience. I'm sure others may disagree.
16. I just love to gamble when I believe the odds are on my side.

YMMV.

Well I hope it turns out to be a great deal for you.I agree if it last a year or 2 you got a great deal.The price is unreal,I feel sorry for those who paid the full price a year ago.But we all know how the FP buisness works.I bought the ax100 when it first came out and paid for it,But it has been a great FP for me even though alot of ax100 have had problems.But I use a FP for movies and sports and love the added lumes.Let us know how it does so we can all kick are self in the ass for not hoping on a great deal. BOB
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post #92 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 03:15 PM
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I just got mine today.

Problems already

very disapointed.

Have to send back.

Daniel

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post #93 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 03:24 PM
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I should subscribe to this thread so I can watch most of you curse your projectors in the coming weeks and months.
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post #94 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 03:56 PM
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csedaniel, if you are not feeling too sickened to elaborate, we'd appreciate your doing so...
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post #95 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 04:00 PM
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Looks like i'll be buying something locally then!
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post #96 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 04:59 PM
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well, so much for the theory that they may now have been fixed after the Sept '06. However, please do elaborate since some others have no problems so far.

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post #97 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 09:15 PM
 
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KCK7,

With the exception of the start up problem a lot of people have experienced it is a great PJ. When it first came out it was $12K. The easiest way to describe this PJ is it does almost everything right. It might not be the best in all specifications but doesn't have any real glaring errors. Here is what is does well.

Practically calibrated out of the box. No display is perfect out of the box but this one is closer than most.

Its lumens are pretty accurate. Take your average PJ put it in low lamp mode, close the iris for the best contrast, calibrate it to broadcast standards and it probably puts out less than half of its rated spec. This PJ is brighter than most 1000 lumen PJs.

The shadow details on this are excellent.

The Ansi contrast is also excellent for this price. Most manufacturers measure only on/off contrast. On/off is achieved by sending a black signal to projector and measuring the black level then diplay a full intensity white screen and measure white. The disadvantage to this method is displays will often use varous trick techniques to make the whites brighter and the blacks darker. But, unfortunately they can't make brighter whites and darker blacks at the same time. ANSI contrast is a checkerboard of black and white squares and each square is measured and the results averaged. This gives a better idea of what the PJ is capable of for a given scene where on/off gives a better idea of the dynamic range of projector. The ANSI contrast is often much lower than on/off and not often published by manufacturers. In reality many manufacturers don't measure their projectors when calibrated so they can get inflated spes. In a nutshell don't trust manufacturers specs! Ps. I simplified the explanation but I can elaborate later if desired.

Very good lens.

Good build quality - wieghs about 20 pounds compared to 4-10 for most PJs in the less expensive price range.

To sum it up, if you don't get a lemon with the start up problem you won't find a PJ with better PQ for anywhere near 3x this price including the 1080P LCDs. The Sharp 12K could give this a run for the money if you can still get it for $2k but I think it is no longer available. For a G note nothing touches it if it will fit your sitution.

Bob
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post #98 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 10:08 PM
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Too bad they didn't fix it and it therefore becomes the luck of the draw. BTW, if one were to return a lemon, it should not be sold to someone else as new correct?

Also, does this PJ have sealed optics and light path?

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post #99 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 10:28 PM
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Well I just received my second samsung and it has a build date of 10/06. i am still in awe of this projector. I put on my panasonic ae-900 the other night and couldnt beleive how bad the picture was in comparison to the samsung. Ive read several posts that refer to the low 700 ansi brightbess rating.. trust me this projector is plenty bright. you really cant judge a projector just by looking at its stats but have to see it in action. Do some research and read the reviews and they all state that samsung was very conservative in its 700 rating and other manufacturers overstate the brightness rating. I have 38 hours on 1 projector and 4 hours on the second one. i paid 1300 for my ae-900 and paid 1800 for two samsungs. I feel like i was ripped off on the panny. I LOVe the samsung. I know about the reliabilty problems posted but if you look closely at a lot of different threads on different projectors you will hear a lot of complaints. Ive read a lot of complaints about the ax-100 yet ppl dont hesitate to buy that one. Trust me at $900 the samsung is a steal. BTW i have the panasonic ae-900, optoma dv-10 and infocus 4805 and the samsung is in a different class.
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post #100 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csedaniel View Post

I just got mine today.

Problems already

very disapointed.

Have to send back.

Could you elaborate on what the problem is and the build date on your projector. Where there problems from the start or did they develop over time? I hope mine dont develop a problem. Thanks.
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post #101 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 10:34 PM
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Aside from the QC issues (csedaniel can you please provide DETAILS), the thing I am most concerned about is this quote from the PR review:
Quote:


I might also say, that while movie watching is extremely enjoyable, this wouldn't be my first choice for sports and most HDTV. The Samsung tends to reveal flaws in source, so compression artifacts from your cable or satellite, might be more noticeable. That, combined with the fact that there are signficantly brighter home theater projectors out there, will have many, like me choose a different projector.

Can anybody elaborate as to what the first highlighted section even means??? Reveals flaws how? Also, how is the quality of the scaler?

I don't doubt the fidelity of the display for doing post-production in a dedicated theater from an HD source, but I am wondering about this PJ in the real world.
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post #102 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I should subscribe to this thread so I can watch most of you curse your projectors in the coming weeks and months.

Trust me if that happens you will hear from me...Good or bad I will post my experience with this projector. (fingers crossed)
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post #103 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 10:41 PM
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yes, that quote is what got to me also since I trust Art's reviews. Looking at some of the pics Jason posted, I was not impress, however there could be several reasons why they look a bit blurred and grainy...IMO.

Mr2Spyder has seen two of them for real and provided some other PJs as reference therefore to understand the capabilities of this PJ, one may need to see it for themselves.

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post #104 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clueless1 View Post

Aside from the QC issues (csedaniel can you please provide DETAILS), the thing I am most concerned about is this quote from the PR review:

Can anybody elaborate as to what the first highlighted section even means??? Reveals flaws how? Also, how is the quality of the scaler?

You know I really dont get what this reviewer was getting at with this quote. I watch all of my projectors in total darkness like a movie theater and am not so concerned about brightness rating. Actually a very bright projector in total darkness gives me a headache. Revealing flaws or not my eyes say the samsung picture is really nice.
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post #105 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr2Spyder View Post

You know I really dont get what this reviewer was getting at with this quote. I watch all of my projectors in total darkness like a movie theater and am not so concerned about brightness rating. Actually a very bright projector in total darkness gives me a headache. Revealing flaws or not my eyes say the samsung picture is really nice.

Too much brightness is a good thing, since it can be controlled with a filter. However, not much you can do with a dim image other than raising screen gain.

Anyway, how does this PJ look with 5% ambient light? Also when watching in a dark room, how grey are the bars in LB? Is masking really necessary? and do you have a grey or white screen? Thanks.

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post #106 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCK7 View Post

Please, can someone describe, in a nutshell, what makes this PJ's PQ so great?.

In my few hours of viewing so far (as compared to my 4805):

-Wife and I both immediately noticed sharpness.

-480p material upscaled by the projector's processor looks extremely good. My only HD source as of now is OTA Broadcast HD Voom Box. The picture quality is much closer than I thought it would be between feeding it 480p DVD and the 1080i CSI TV show. THe HD is obviously wonderful but I am rethinking my plan for a HD-DVD player because I like what I'm seeing so much out of my Denon DVD-1600.

-3d effect. I'm not sure why the 3d effect is so convincing on a PJ with moderate absolute black levels. My thinking is that it is the sharpness helping to really reproduce the depth of field effect invisioned in the cinematography. This projector excells with maintaining details in areas where light is dim. Some projectors with better contrast sort of crush them into black I think. I'm projecting onto a 92' Dalite HCCV. My wife and I both agreed that there is much more depth to the image than we've been able to see before.

-Like everyone else says, it does colors extremely well. I just set contrast and brightness and the flesh tones are great. All faces seem to have distinct flesh tones but they are all unique to themselves and natural. There is a certain depth to the colors.

-Nice menu system with some neat little install patterns.


Negatives:
- There really is somthing to what has been written about absolute black levels being too light in the black bars on super widescreen images. I don't think I noticed that as much on my 4805. It's not a huge deal, but I am now considering options to screen the borders for super widescreen material.
- It's not as quiet as my friends Mits 1000U. High lamp mode is actually kind of loud.
- It has lens shift, but you still can't get near as much offset as the typical Mits, Optoma, or Infocus. I will have to mount the projector physically closer to our seating position, but it is still going to be much quieter then my 4805. It seemed to get quieter the longer it ran. For me, a lens shift should allow you to mount the projector much higher than the top edge of the screen - especially on a medium throw projector where your seating distance is likely to match your mounting distance.

Heres to hoping my Oct 06 unit runs like a champ. Remember to use your credit card if it comes with a warranty extension feature. That feature is for real and many people overlook it. I don't expect Samsung to cover it more than a year even though I called Samsung and they told me two years. Its what's on your warranty card that comes in the box that counts as far as I know.

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post #107 of 660 Old 07-26-2007, 11:25 PM
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Switchmonkey, what is the offset and can the shift, er, offset some of that?

I have an 8 ft 8 inch ceiling (104"). I will be mounting with an Atdec, which is pretty much flush to ceiling, maybe 4 inch drop. My screen is 104" diagonal (51 tall), and I would like to have it between 28-36 inches off the floor at the bottom. Now you've got me worried that I may have to mount the screen too high...? I hope not.

BTW I just ordered this from TD, after much agonization. The laudatory comments finally got to me and prevailed over the complaints.

Though what's that junk at TD about providing your last 4 of SSN? Never seen that anywhere else and like a lot of folks here I shop online quite a bit. I went ahead with it but didn't like it one bit. But it looks like they really verify, as they then asked me some questions relating to my previous address.
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post #108 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 12:36 AM
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Anybody thinking about ordering this PJ really should use the search button up above. Here's an interesting AVS thread for starters: avs-vb/showthread[dot]php?t=669765

sorry, had to break it up to get past (silly) 5 posting rule. I particularly noted the dates of the most recent disaster postings, the probs with samsung customer service, and the repeated stories of disaster after 100s hours of use.

Caveat emptor.
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post #109 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 02:50 AM
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I wouldn't have risked buying this if I didn't have a spare PJ.

Apply directly to the forehead!
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post #110 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 07:51 AM
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Turned the Samsung on couple of hours yesterday connected to a PC using the VGA port. Everythings is fine so far. I will test the DVI port this weekend with my A2. If everything looks OK then I'll put it on a shelf next week after the new cables arrive. I will not take the Benq down, gonna use it as a spare just in case.

As far as brightness, I think it's bright enough comparing to the Benq. Note that the Benq is a 2000 lumen PJ in its brightest mode and it has over a thousand hours. Loosing brightness gradually is OK, I think the eyes will adapt. As far as percentage ambient light or how grey is grey. I think most people do not have equipment to measure accurately so on has to see with his own eyes. I have the spyder2Pro but the measurement is a little suspect. Yes, the 'black' bar is not black in LB films, but not everything DVD is reference quality anyway, PJs can't help with bad transfers. BTW, I've rarely seen good 'black' level in a theater, most 'blacks' are grey.

This PJ is definitely not for those who expect perfection is a sub $1000 pj. If this were a $4000 pj, which some people has actually paid, I would be very upset if it develops consistent problems. Considering the price, and for Samsung to be clearing these out at these prices, I am not suprise that there are still problems with these PJs. BTW, mine is a Oct 06 built.
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post #111 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 08:05 AM
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Munkeung, I just noticed your location... Naperville. Also TD's main warehouse location! So did you go over and pick it up?
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post #112 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCK7 View Post

Munkeung, I just noticed your location... Naperville. Also TD's main warehouse location! So did you go over and pick it up?

No. That's why I had buyer's remorse - not the PJ but the price. After tax and S/H, I paid around 960. B*y.com has the PJ for <890 with free shipping. I did not know their main warehouse location but I received the PJ the next day I ordered it, so it must be very close. It's been a long time I paid that much tax on an internet purchase and that's why I don't usually buy from TD.
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post #113 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 08:20 AM
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[quote=Switch Monkey]In my few hours of viewing so far (as compared to my 4805):

-Wife and I both immediately noticed sharpness.

-480p material upscaled by the projector's processor looks extremely good. My only HD source as of now is OTA Broadcast HD Voom Box. The picture quality is much closer than I thought it would be between feeding it 480p DVD and the 1080i CSI TV show. THe HD is obviously wonderful but I am rethinking my plan for a HD-DVD player because I like what I'm seeing so much out of my Denon DVD-1600.

-3d effect. I'm not sure why the 3d effect is so convincing on a PJ with moderate absolute black levels. My thinking is that it is the sharpness helping to really reproduce the depth of field effect invisioned in the cinematography. This projector excells with maintaining details in areas where light is dim. Some projectors with better contrast sort of crush them into black I think. I'm projecting onto a 92' Dalite HCCV. My wife and I both agreed that there is much more depth to the image than we've been able to see before.

-Like everyone else says, it does colors extremely well. I just set contrast and brightness and the flesh tones are great. All faces seem to have distinct flesh tones but they are all unique to themselves and natural. There is a certain depth to the colors.








I have to agree with switch monkey that the three things that stand out are the colors, sharpness and yes indeed the 3d effect. The blacks are blacker than my ae-900 which has a dynamic iris so Im happy with the black levels on the samsung. Ive been throwing in a lot of different movies and concerts (DVD and Blu Ray) using my Oppo and PS3 and have to say this projector handles everything well.
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post #114 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 09:03 AM
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Spyder....what's your screen ?
White or gray ?

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post #115 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasma George View Post

Spyder....what's your screen ?
White or gray ?

I don't have a screen. I've using a white wall for 3 years. I don't believe I need a 'real' screen for the benq which is a data grade projector with known inaccurate color and high black level. For the Samsung, which is a 'real' PJ and I'm thinking of a light grey screen, which I hope can help with the 'black' bar issue and reflections. The Elite EZ frame is in the radar right now but I'm waiting for the samples to come in. Will not make a decision until I can mount it correctly with size of image I am comfortable with. I'm shooting from about 10.5' and should get a 92" image. If that's not bright enough with the theater mode, then I'll get a 84" screen. Currently, I am watching a 80" image with my Benq.

As far as the Spyder. The xyY data I took are just inconsistent. Since all of the displays I've had before the Samsung do not user level bias/gain controls, I didn't really try too hard. Since the Samsung is suppose to be accurate, I will try again and see what I can get out of it. For me, it's more like a toy than a real tool. The Samsung looks good to me even on a light blue wall during my burn-in so I'm sure only DVE type of calibration would be sufficient with a white or light grey target. I don't have very good eyes and ears, and I'm not very damanding in terms of knowing everything on the screen has to be D65, I simply enjoy the fact have a >80" HD image at my disposal.
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post #116 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 09:28 AM
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My neighbor just got his Samsung in today. I reccomended it to him due to everyone being so gung-ho about it.

Well here goes:

1. First turn on - problems already! We unplugged and then turned it back on, but this time it worked.

2. The Picture looked pretty damn swell. Very natural. Very sharp. Very accuracte colors. I don't know if it was mentioned in here though, but this thing has some ridiculous SDE which had me headscratching.

3. I brought my HD1000u over. We did a side by side and we both preffered the HD1000u not for the basis of picture, but alas we are flexible people and to put it in real world terms:

We felt as if the difference in picture didn't compensate enough for the versatility for the HD1000u. The HD1000u had ZERO SDE. The HD1000u was also plenty accurate, and had some nice overall smoothness. In contrast, the Samsung was sharper, not quite as bright, but shot a pretty damn dark black.

This is just two guys, YMMV, but if you own an HD1000u or HD70 or any of the recent sub 1k projectors, the difference in picture is not really "there" unless you have them side by side. I guess what I'm trying to say is, this is a great projector for a particular audience, and if you are in that target group (PURE HT purists with High Gain screens) - then you found yourself something to audition. As for me and my neighbor, we like to play videogames, watch movies, and occasionally watch the football game (and will be watching WWE in HD this january) - so the projector is a No-No for us.


So in conclusion-

HD1000u - Wins out in Brightness, relatively no SDE, smoothness, portability (the samsung is a behemoth!), and functionality

Samsung - Wins out in sharpness, SLIGHTLY more natural color accuracy, and a better black

Oh and my HD1000u has 600 hours on it for reference.
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post #117 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 09:36 AM
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I believe TheHDMan had stated he saw SDE and needed to be about 3 screen widths away which I think is just too much for a requirement. I had to pass up on the Sharp 2KMII because being long throw was going to knock my screen size down. From what I read here, I think no one can find fault with this Sammy's color accuracy, however as you have just did a side by side comparison, some of the new kids on the block will most likely stand up to this PJ.

BTW - I was thinking about getting one for a family member and doing a side by side with my VP4001, however I think they would kick me since SDE is a big no, no. and reliability problems have already started. Are all the reliability issues with the Sept '06 build date and not the Oct '06?

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post #118 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 09:50 AM
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Well in all honesty tradewinds I would end up reccomending the HD1000u. Most sane people won't see the differences we are pointing out. Also my HD1000u has aged 600 hours, so this projector is going to be fairly dim during its half-life cycle. Once you consider all those factors, it becomes a pickle.

Are you going after the utter most perfect picture at the cost of reliability, brightness, and marginally better attributes?

We know some people here are adamant on getting every last bit of performance for there HT- and this is for those guys. As much as I sound like I'm hardhitting the Samsung, its a testament it stands up well against the HD1000u, but the latest projectors under the 1k mark have some amazing picture and bells and whistles which make them amazing all around performers.
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post #119 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasma George View Post

Spyder....what's your screen ?
White or gray ?


I have a 92 inch graywolf 2 screen which I believe has 1.8 gain. I believe it matches well with the projector. My next upgrade will be a better fixed frame screen. I would recommend a high gain gray screen to help with the brightness and black levels. I also have an 80 inch portable Intsta-Theater Da-lite white screen but have yet to test the samsung on it.

I sit about 12 feet away from the screen and have not noticed any screen door effect some people have mentioned. When I get home Ill get closer to the screen and see if I notice the SDE. I can also say that I did not notice any SDE on my Panny (which has smoothscreen technology) even when I got close to the screen. I definately can see sde on my Infocus and optoma 480p projectors even at about 2x distance from the screen.
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post #120 of 660 Old 07-27-2007, 10:00 AM
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yep, I am leaning towards recommending to them the HD1000U also but they want quality like my VP4001 but not have to pay double the 1000U price so this PJ seemed to may have worked, however I cannot have them take the risks especially since I know the SDE will be one issue immediately.

Oh well, maybe something else will get cleared out soon. the 12KMII, VP4001, now this Sammy...what's next?

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