Plug directly into wall, or surge protector? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 07-27-2007, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm probably overthinking this, but the manual for my newly received Mitsu HD1000u says to plug directly into the wall. I'm think that a surge protector should be used. Feedback please. Thanks.

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post #2 of 43 Old 07-27-2007, 10:52 PM
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Use a surge protector.
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post #3 of 43 Old 07-27-2007, 11:19 PM
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I second that.
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post #4 of 43 Old 07-27-2007, 11:27 PM
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what about a power backup/surge protector. my power goes out during the weakest t-storm here in florida.
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post #5 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt.britt View Post

Use a surge protector.

Yep. That's what I did. Thanks!

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post #6 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 01:31 AM
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I will when the warranty expires..

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post #7 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieloneil01 View Post

I will when the warranty expires..

I don't quite understand. A power surge during a storm could destroy your projector and would not be covered by warranty.
I had a tv destroyed in this way. The extended warranty specifically excluded power surge damage.
Needless to say I now have every thing protected by surge suppressors.

PS. The tv was covered by the house insurance.
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post #8 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko05 View Post

I don't quite understand. A power surge during a storm could destroy your projector and would not be covered by warranty.
I had a tv destroyed in this way. The extended warranty specifically excluded power surge damage.
Needless to say I now have every thing protected by surge suppressors.

PS. The tv was covered by the house insurance.

Quite. I don't even use surge suppressors so much for a high level of protection as I do for the equipment damage warranty most of them carry. There's no good reason I can think of not to use a surge suppressor (my own HD1000U is plugged into one, incidentally).
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post #9 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbigdrawz View Post

what about a power backup/surge protector. my power goes out during the weakest t-storm here in florida.

Not a terrible idea. You want a UPS that can switch over to battery fast enough to keep the lamp arc from going out, otherwise the purpose is pretty much defeated.
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post #10 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevorino View Post

I'm probably overthinking this, but the manual for my newly received Mitsu HD1000u says to plug directly into the wall. I'm think that a surge protector should be used. Feedback please. Thanks.

Most certainly plug it into a UPS battery backup surge protector, you need to have battery back up in case you lose power when it's on, to allow cool down of the projector.

I have a Pure AV AP30800-10, with up to 40 minutes back up and I believe 5700 joule rating. It's a MUST have part of my system.

Is you unit ceiling mounted?

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #11 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVlover45 View Post

Most certainly plug it into a UPS battery backup surge protector, you need to have battery back up in case you lose power when it's on, to allow cool down of the projector.

I have a Pure AV AP30800-10, with up to 40 minutes back up and I believe 5700 joule rating. It's a MUST have part of my system.

Is you unit ceiling mounted?

No, I've got it on a low table for now. I'm moving in a few days and will be putting it on a coffee table. Maybe I'll ceiling mount it in the future, but no plans for that now. Hmmm, I need battery backup? I guess I'll start looking into that. Do you know what the going rate is for a sufficient device? Thanks in advance.

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post #12 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVlover45 View Post

Most certainly plug it into a UPS battery backup surge protector, you need to have battery back up in case you lose power when it's on, to allow cool down of the projector.

I have a Pure AV AP30800-10, with up to 40 minutes back up and I believe 5700 joule rating. It's a MUST have part of my system.

Is you unit ceiling mounted?

Do you know what joule rating is sufficient? I'm looking at the Belkin website. The joule rating sor <$100 are imder 1000 joules. The amount of backup batery time seems to be the major difference between them.

5700 Joule rating? Is that much really needed? I'll get what is needed, but don't desire to go overboard if I can help it. Thanks again.

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post #13 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 01:55 PM
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Joule rating doesn't matter - one you take a hit, the unit must be replaced. The underlying technology for most surge suppression has a total absorption limit. Once that limit is reached, the next hit can result in a fire. brickwall.com makes surge suppressors that don't use MOV surge suppression if you are interested in a technology that doesn't have to be replaced and doesn't dump the surge into the common ground wire.
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post #14 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevorino View Post

Do you know what joule rating is sufficient? I'm looking at the Belkin website. The joule rating sor <$100 are imder 1000 joules. The amount of backup batery time seems to be the major difference between them.

5700 Joule rating? Is that much really needed? I'll get what is needed, but don't desire to go overboard if I can help it. Thanks again.

Ok, I was wrong, it's 5500 joule rating.. I've been advised a minimum of 3500 joules is the best protection, now I don't have anything to back that up as any fact, but I have a buddy who is an electrician and this stuff is coming from him, so I trust it, he's been doing this for 30 years.

Ok, here's what I know regarding joule rating in laymans terms.

The higher the joule rating the faster and more damage absorbtion the protector has. Bottom line, a cheapo from the hardware store protector does not have any protection from high voltage/amperage surge, and those are usually around 300-800 joule rating and why those only cost $20.00

Go here to look at what unit I have, this was the best price I found anywhere for a really good protector/ conditioner / UPS . http://www.hdtvconnectionstore.com/c...g?categoryId=4

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #15 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 07:29 PM
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My TV repairman told me that using two cheapo's in line will do just as good of a job as an expensive one. the first one will slow it down and the second will stop it.
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post #16 of 43 Old 07-28-2007, 07:55 PM
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Yes, I 'm curious... I have an HD1000 with a outlet drop in my attic that I plug into...
Using a UPS seems problematic with the potental for a fire but a good surge supressor seems the way to go...

I doubt a quick power outage where the lamp gets turned off is too big a deal...

Can anyone recommend a good surge supressor?
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post #17 of 43 Old 07-29-2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thor20003 View Post

My TV repairman told me that using two cheapo's in line will do just as good of a job as an expensive one. the first one will slow it down and the second will stop it.


I have to laugh at that one.. Sorry not laughing at you thor20003, but that is rediculous. If that 1st surge energy blows through on cheapo, then it didn't stop or slow it down, it's just going to keep going to your expensive equipment. The theory sound reasoanble but it is NOT.

Let me put it this way... If you own a really nice sports car, say a brand new Corvette.. ok, so now you have choices as to putting in the "cheaper" lower octane gas and save maybe $3.00 per tank full and risk damaging your engine..
OR, you need new tires, and instead of springing for the specific quality performance tires, you go to Walmart instead and have the "cheapo" tires put on and the car suffers handling and you end up damaging the suspension..

ok, maybe you guy's are getting the idea..

If you have a $99.00 TV and DVD player, sure the $20 SP will be fine..

Do you have a $3000.00 projector TV and other expensive a/v equipment connected to it? well they all are connected and if they are not each protected with QUALITY SP's then you'll pay the price at sometime if even one of the components gets "smacked" then it relays it to the next connected device.

It's not worth buying a "cheapo" SP for expensive A/V equipment!!

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #18 of 43 Old 07-29-2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavemanhead View Post

Yes, I 'm curious... I have an HD1000 with a outlet drop in my attic that I plug into...
Using a UPS seems problematic with the potental for a fire but a good surge supressor seems the way to go...

I doubt a quick power outage where the lamp gets turned off is too big a deal...

Can anyone recommend a good surge supressor?

You guy's with expensive projectors are the ones that are most susceptible for damage to your display devise than anyone.

You're all kidding yourselves if you don't think a brown out or loss of power even for a minute or 2 could not do damage to the bulb or circuitry. IT CAN and WILL, whether at that time or over time, HEAT will damage your projector and if not cooled down properly, it will cause you problems and the warranty will do you no good.

A projector gets damn hot as you know, and if that cooling fan can't run, it WILL cause damage to the unit, plain and simple. You all need UPS and decent joule rating of at least 3500.

I did recomemnd the perfect SP/conditioner/UPS in my message above.

Why would you all go off and spend a fortune on a projector /screen and high end cables and then want to skimp on what is a very important component to the whole system together?

I just don't get it? buying a $20-50.00 SP for a $3000 system is so funny to me. if you have a $99 TV DVD player then great buy the $20 SP

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #19 of 43 Old 07-29-2007, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi. I was hoping that you could let me know if you think that this APC UPS model would sufficiently protect and power the Mitsu HD1000u. The light-source lamp for this model is 200W. I only want enough time to properly power down.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include...ase_sku=BE750BB

The joules look low, but I wasn't sure if that mattered if there was backup power. Please advise if you can. Thanks in advance.

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post #20 of 43 Old 07-29-2007, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVlover45 View Post

Ok, I was wrong, it's 5500 joule rating.. I've been advised a minimum of 3500 joules is the best protection, now I don't have anything to back that up as any fact, but I have a buddy who is an electrician and this stuff is coming from him, so I trust it, he's been doing this for 30 years.

Ok, here's what I know regarding joule rating in laymans terms.

The higher the joule rating the faster and more damage absorbtion the protector has. Bottom line, a cheapo from the hardware store protector does not have any protection from high voltage/amperage surge, and those are usually around 300-800 joule rating and why those only cost $20.00

Go here to look at what unit I have, this was the best price I found anywhere for a really good protector/ conditioner / UPS . http://www.hdtvconnectionstore.com/c...g?categoryId=4

CHEAPER HERE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101227

The UPS supports up to 640w which is plenty enough for your projector. I might consider this unit since it an "all-in-one" unit.
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post #21 of 43 Old 07-29-2007, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echow87 View Post

CHEAPER HERE: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842101227

The UPS supports up to 640w which is plenty enough for your projector. I might consider this unit since it an "all-in-one" unit.

I'm assuming that you are referring to my projector. mitsu HD1000u? When the thread starts to get long, I don't like to assume that it's about my specs anymore. Thanks for the suggestion. I know that I want to protect my equipment, but I'm a little put off that I need to spend nearly the equivalent to 20% of the projectors cost to protect it, not to mention that it's with a unit that's probably larger and heavier than the projector itself.

If that's the way it's gotta be, then that's the way it's gotta be. Is that the way it's gotta be?

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post #22 of 43 Old 07-30-2007, 03:07 AM
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It seems to me that this kind of thinking should be based on an insurance needs mentality - the same you go through when you want insurance of any kind. Even the very good UPS systems and surge protectors are no real guarantee that your equipment will be truly protected, especially if the strike is close by. They do a good job in most cases but not all. And the ones that are decent will cost anywhere between $150 and $200 and even more.

Now, lets say you buy one and have to replace the battery in it every three years or so. In some cases, the battery will no longer be produced in that time as older models are phased out. Now you have to buy a whole new unit. Even if the replacement battery is available, have you priced them? You will be surprised at how much they cost. If the UPS fails due to battery issues, faulty parts or whatever you will never really know until it is too late. And even with their $500,000 equipment warranty I would be willing to bet a whole lot of money that trying to get them to pay off would be such a hassle and so time consuming that you would get old by the time you got your money to make the replacement.

Now, consider the alternative "insurance plan". Let's say you purchase your HD1000u from CircuitCity. Why not spend the same amount of money as you would for a power protector for their four year "Advantage Protection Plan" (cost is around $170 if I remember right). This plan specifically protects you from ALL the things your UPS supports, including power surges. The warranty is good for four years, about the life of a UPS battery, and, in most cases can be renewed and (I think) is transferable to new owners.

Now, this warranty covers you in more ways than power surge protection. It covers you for four years no matter what. If anything goes wrong with the projector (short of abuse or improper implementation and hookup) just bring it to the nearest store and they'll fix it - not just power issues but any issue. If they can't solve the problem they will give you a new projector. If after three attempts you still have a problem, they'll give you a new one under the "lemon" policy. I had this happen to me on another piece of equipment and they don't fool around - if they can't repair it they give you a new one, no matter what the problem. UPS only protects you for power outage and spikes, nothing more, and then that is iffy. And here is the deal breaker that should make this a no brainer: this four year warranty also includes a bulb replacement for your projector. Now, go price one of those suckers! Other places besides CC also have these kinds of extended warranties but this "Advantage" policy is one of the best.

So, the bottom line is, based on my "insurance needs" for this piece of equipment (I'm not talking about hooking up a bunch of other stuff to protect, ONLY this projector), I can not see spending $150-$200 to "possibly" protect the HD1000u ONLY for power failure related issues. I can spend the same amount and get TOTAL protection, not to mention one bulb replacement during the period if needed. I don't know what the rules are for others, but for me that makes a lot more sense.

shortspark
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post #23 of 43 Old 07-30-2007, 08:54 AM
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Any ideas for those of us with ceiling mounted projectors? I plug my projector into an existing plug on the ceiling. We didn't build the house, so the plug is not protected in any way. Also impossible to reach from the attic.

Any ceiling mounted UPCs available? Something very small would hardly be noticeable on the ceiling. something that replaced the outlet itself would be even better.
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post #24 of 43 Old 07-30-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorton View Post

Any ideas for those of us with ceiling mounted projectors? I plug my projector into an existing plug on the ceiling. We didn't build the house, so the plug is not protected in any way. Also impossible to reach from the attic.

Any ceiling mounted UPCs available? Something very small would hardly be noticeable on the ceiling. something that replaced the outlet itself would be even better.

Not that I'm aware of, no UPS unit that can be ceiling mounted. There are wall/ceiling mounted surge protectors available but they don't have any UPS.

However, if you can run a new ROMEX from the projector area to your main equipment then you can buy a Powerbridge solution that will allow a direct connection of electricity from a UPS to your projector. I use one for my LCD wall mounted TV.

go here to look at it www.powerbridgesolution.com

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #25 of 43 Old 07-30-2007, 01:16 PM
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consider backing up the circuit (or whole panel) at the breaker panel. You'd have to see the electrical plans for your house, though, to know what else is on that circuit, if anything. consult the NEC/local codes to see what you can and can't do yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorton View Post

Any ideas for those of us with ceiling mounted projectors? I plug my projector into an existing plug on the ceiling. We didn't build the house, so the plug is not protected in any way. Also impossible to reach from the attic.

Any ceiling mounted UPCs available? Something very small would hardly be noticeable on the ceiling. something that replaced the outlet itself would be even better.

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post #26 of 43 Old 07-30-2007, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevorino View Post

I'm probably overthinking this, but the manual for my newly received Mitsu HD1000u says to plug directly into the wall. I'm think that a surge protector should be used. Feedback please. Thanks.

My HD1000 is ceiling mounted. I had the electrician put an electrical plug right next to it but since it is not a dedicated circuit I wanted surge protection.

I found at either Home Depot or Lowes a single outlet surge protector. It looks like a big AC adaptor. I plugged it into the ceiling plug then my proj. into it and that little red light lit up gives me a feeling of security (well, at least a little bit).

The rest of my Home Theater equipment is on a strip surge protector.
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post #27 of 43 Old 07-30-2007, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notlad View Post

My HD1000 is ceiling mounted. I had the electrician put an electrical plug right next to it but since it is not a dedicated circuit I wanted surge protection.

I found at either Home Depot or Lowes a single outlet surge protector. It looks like a big AC adaptor. I plugged it into the ceiling plug then my proj. into it and that little red light lit up gives me a feeling of security (well, at least a little bit).

The rest of my Home Theater equipment is on a strip surge protector.

Ok I gotta ask... So you have a nice expensive projector... and, let's assume fairly nice HT equipment... and you have these plugged into a surge strip...???
The projector, I can understand somewhat as to limited space, but what joule rating and real protection are you getting from either of those. Little red comfort lights are nice but what exactly did you buy at HDepot/Lowes? I'm curious.. I've not found anything that you can put on the wall that really is a good protection unit.

There are real surge protection solutions out there, and yes they do cost a little more than the good old surge strip we used to plug our old IBM's into, but even though I don't have a projetor unit I do have an expensive LCD on my wall and I have it connected to my surge protect/conditioner/UPS.

Not dissing anyone, just curious as to what others have found regarding how to protect expensive TV/projectors...

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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post #28 of 43 Old 07-30-2007, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Does this look safe to use?

http://www.apc.com/resource/include...ase_sku=BE750BB

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post #29 of 43 Old 07-30-2007, 10:36 PM
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HDTVLover45: I'd LOVE to have an expensive UPS... The problem is that I'm worried about fire and the fact that a UPS has to be accessible -- I can't have it in the attic nex to the plug above the PJ because I'm worried about a fire...

I could string a 20 ft extension cord down the wall where my stereo equipment is and plug in a UPS there... But then I may disrupt by cable signals with AC power... A plain old (good) surge protector in the attic seems like the way to go.
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post #30 of 43 Old 07-31-2007, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevorino View Post

Does this look safe to use?

http://www.apc.com/resource/include...ase_sku=BE750BB

That link doesn't work, but I figured it out.

Well that looks like a good old UPC unit I have on my old computer as pwr backup i bought a few years ago from Office Max. Has only 360 joules of protection, not much.. I'm really not sure that unit is designed for a projector, more for a computer or phone system really.

And so it is.... Do it right, or go home...
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