Reviews of Marantz VP4001? - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 06:44 AM
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gbrnole, thank you, this is the kind of input I've been hoping for all along.

tradewinds, I'm afraid you still don't get what my objections are about. I welcome different opinions, but then they should be well-founded (i.e. backed by good evidence). I am not debating the difference between the two projectors (I can't as I haven't seen both in action). I have simply been objecting against the use of inadequate material to demonstrate differences and to reach conclusions. No responsible reviewer would do that. Reserving judgment until enough evidence is available (or until enough well-considered arguments and opinions ave been heard) is precisely the opposite of being "opinionated".
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post #272 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chexi1 View Post

Well good news... sort of. I tested the color bar patterns from Avia through component running 4:3 (true) aspect at 480i. The color bleeding was not present (or at least 99%) not present. That leads me to the conclusion that what I saw was a scaling artifact. Avia is a standard DVD, and apparently when upscaled to 720p, certain scaling errors are innevitably introduced. These errors are most evident at borders with radical changes in color. Note, even at 480i I can see the effect slightly on the color bars, so I think that it is partially the fault of the DVD itself.

I also believe that these same scaling errors are what I see at the top and bottom horizontal lines of a projected movie image. And this is why I say "sort of" good news. Because the only native 720p source out there is certain broadcasts, every DVD and every HD-DVD and Blu-ray will involve scaling, and such scaling will introduce scaling artifacts. Now, in the grand scheme of things, they are pretty small, and nothing that masking won't hide 99% of, but still visible to the extremely discriminating viewer, if looked for.

With the above in mind, this is at least 1 reason to hold out for a 1080p projector. At least with HD-DVD and Blu-ray you should (in theory) not get this particular type of scaling error/artifact. That's not to say that you won't have other issues (especially with lower costs 1080p pj's) like chromatic aberration, etc., and ultimately you are bound by the quality of the source, which varies greatly in HD content.

I think this weekend I will go ahead and Avia calibrate the Marantz (which should yield at least slightly better black levels as I noticed the default brightness is set a little too high) and watch at least part of a movie and re-test my general impressions.

By the end of the weekend, I will either have a Mits HC3000 with about 900 hours on the bulb for sale, or the Marantz with about 3 hours on the bulb for sale. I hope that I am not violating any forum rules by saying so. If so, moderators please edit this post.

I believe you can borrow DVE HD from blockbuster. It may be worth trying to calibrate it with that instead.

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post #273 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox View Post

tradewinds, I'm afraid you still don't get what my objections are about. I welcome different opinions, but then they should be well-founded (i.e. backed by good evidence). I am not debating the difference between the two projectors (I can't as I haven't seen both in action). I have simply been objecting against the use of inadequate material to demonstrate differences and to reach conclusions. No responsible reviewer would do that. Reserving judgment until enough evidence is available (or until enough well-considered arguments and opinions ave been heard) is precisely the opposite of being "opinionated".

The video as suggested by a thread contributer is, as we all know, not the best to do any real comparison. There is no reason to belabor that point. We all know it and we are just pointing out some differences we see in it. So too are any photos. All you will get are opinions from people here, and that is my point of it will be opinionated. You should not dismiss those opinions if you don't agree with it. Unless you are able to demo or shootout the PJs your are interested in, you will be subjected to the reviews and posts here and elsewhere which are opinionated and subjective, not that they are not being consider neutrally with the best of intent by the reviewer. We have bought PJs in the past and continue to buy PJs from reading these reviews and opinions since it is the best source of information for most of us.

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post #274 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 07:21 AM
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I'm reconsidering keeping this unit. How much performance improvement will this $1200 unit be over an $800 720p unit? I assume it is not as much as the price increase (50%)?

This is my first projector, but perhaps I will be better served by saving $400 and waiting for the 1080p prices to drop. Opinions?
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post #275 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrnole View Post

it's just probably not worth spending 50% more money to get a 20% better picture.

My situation is somewhat different from that of the majority here. I live in South Africa, where projectors typically cost twice as much as in the US. For that reason, I imported my HD1000U from the States. With about 350 hours on the bulb, I should easily be able to sell it locally for as much as I paid for it. Which means, if I then order the Marantz from the US, the cost of the upgrade should be pretty small -- more like 20% rather than 50%. So the idea of upgrading is still very tempting.

On the other hand, in the few years that I have been into home theater, I have only ever owned entry-level projectors: X1, then H31, and now HD1000U. I have reached the point where I feel I should move on to something higher than "entry-level" -- and I am not yet convinced that the Marantz represents enough of a leap forward. Having said that, the relativelly poor black levels of the Mits keep bugging me, so maybe the upgrade would be worth it if it's not going to cost me very much . . .

Damn, I wish I could see the Marantz in action! Looking forward to chexi1's impressions this weekend . . .
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post #276 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post

I'm reconsidering keeping this unit. How much performance improvement will this $1200 unit be over an $800 720p unit? I assume it is not as much as the price increase (50%)?

This is my first projector, but perhaps I will be better served by saving $400 and waiting for the 1080p prices to drop. Opinions?

This really comes down to a personal decision based on what you are comfortable with from a financial standpoint and a PQ standpoint. It is a decision many of us have battled with for many months. I also wanted to save the $400 and get a HD1000U, the Samsung or now even the Acer. The issue I had with the HD1000U was the grey blacks. The issue with the Samsung was also reported grey blacks and reliability issues. I have not venture to look at the Acer since momentum of that one came up only after I purchased the Marantz.

For my requirement I needed a short throw PJ with great PQ and inky blacks.

Also, I think a 1080p (non LCD and non Optoma) for around a $1500 budget will not be here untiil at least a year to a year and a half. In the meantime, the Marantz will give me what I need and also will still be under warranty should I choose to keep it and put it in another room. I looked at all these factors and decided the PQ alone was worth the $400 for me. YMMV.

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post #277 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 07:56 AM
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my only advice is that if you don't want to spend $1200 on a vp4001 then find the middle ground and pick up a dt-500 on the bay for 999 new.

the mitsu is a great pj for the money but it was always a $1000 pj - these pj's were 4k or thereabouts.

as a side note - if you need more than just a PJ ie. screen, a/v receivers, speakers etc. too - then rosco just put up an interesting new addition...
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post #278 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrnole View Post

as a side note - if you need more than just a PJ ie. screen, a/v receivers, speakers etc. too - then rosco just put up an interesting new addition...

That looks good for someone new coming to the game. But may be somewhat overpriced. I think $1800 would be a deal.

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post #279 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 08:04 AM
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I was also going to suggest the DT-500.

On a side note, has there been any further confirmation that the VP4001 really is more than a rebadged Sharp?
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post #280 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox View Post

On a side note, has there been any further confirmation that the VP4001 really is more than a rebadged Sharp?

Apart from verbally and some old post from Marantz here a while back, I don't believe there has been more.

See here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...89&postcount=4

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post #281 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

I have not venture to look at the Acer since momentum of that one came up only after I purchased the Marantz.

The Acer makes my decision even tougher. It's 1/2 the price of the Marantz.
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post #282 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post

The Acer makes my decision even tougher. It's 1/2 the price of the Marantz.

and half the pj.
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post #283 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrnole View Post

and half the pj.

Do you really believe that it is half the pj in terms of performance? The reviews on the Acer thread seem very positive.
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post #284 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:01 AM
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Wow, comparison of pq based on a low res screen capture of low res youtube videos of projected images??? I am surprised to find very little technical tweaking, measurement information in this thread. Are there no calibrator-owner?
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post #285 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:03 AM
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On eBay there's also the BENQ PE7700 for $999.95. Maybe a bit long in the tooth by now, but it got good reviews when it was first launched with a MSRP of Around $3000. And it does offer the advantage of a 1.37:1 zoom range, in case you need that placement flexibility.

It would probably be a good idea if we could have some kind of round-up of all these high-value 720p projectors.
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post #286 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickster904 View Post

Wow, comparison of pq based on a low res screen capture of low res youtube videos of projected images??? I am surprised to find very little technical tweaking, measurement information in this thread. Are there no calibrator-owner?

Thanks for the support! I was beginning to feel very alone here . . .
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post #287 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by redfox View Post

On eBay there's also the BENQ PE7700 for $999.95. Maybe a bit long in the tooth by now, but it got good reviews when it was first launched with a MSRP of Around $3000. And it does offer the advantage of a 1.37:1 zoom range, in case you need that placement flexibility.

It would probably be a good idea if we could have some kind of round-up of all these high-value 720p projectors.

Was this the one that had bulb issues? Was that ever fixed?

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post #288 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rickster904 View Post

Wow, comparison of pq based on a low res screen capture of low res youtube videos of projected images???

Comparison was actually first hand. Videos and photos just thrown in there in an attempt to identify some differences, unfortunately some got hung up on that fact alone and forgot about the first hand experience.

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post #289 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

Was this the one that had bulb issues? Was that ever fixed?

Don't know. Anybody?
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post #290 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrnole View Post

red, i stated a few times already in this thread that you should look at a video on youtube that compares the sharp xv-z3000 to a mitsu hd1000. the color differences are very aparent. just do a search on youtube for xv z3000.

This was the response when I initially asked for informed opinions on whether it would be a worthwhile upgrade. The implication being that the video alone would provide an adequate answer.
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post #291 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:48 AM
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The PE7700 bulb issue was fixed long long time ago. The bad bulbs died quickly and were all replaced free of charge of course.

I have no doubt that vp4001 is an excellent pj and exceptional value at the ubid price point, but after seeing the youtube screen capture, I have to wept coffee off my monitor ...

I am thinking about getting one to compare to my HD80, just don't know how to get that pass my wife. (This would be my 4th pj in four years.) I am sitting at 1.3 screen width. Can someone comment on 720p pixelation from this distance?
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post #292 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickster904 View Post

I am sitting at 1.3 screen width. Can someone comment on 720p pixelation from this distance?

I sit at approximately 1.5x screen width. At that distance, I see no pixelation with the HD1000U.
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post #293 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 10:25 AM
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I'm a new owner of a 4001 via ubid... waiting for irt to show up... Unfortunately, the only thing I can compare it to is a 4805. I wanted either the Mits 1500, 3100, or 3000 and decided this would be a logical choice with the bonus of more lumens over the 3100 and 3000.

I'd like to get a "universal' mount for this PJ... Was thinking about the RPA-U. I love Chief stuff, but it is a little expensive and I do like the way the NPL mout (mount direct) and a nice ceiling faceplate... But... i'n not even sure this mount is universal enough... One of the desired feature of the mount I end up with is the ability to route/hide the cables in the central tube going up into the ceiling.

Anyone have any suggestions/comments about a mount for this PJ?
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post #294 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson73 View Post

Do you really believe that it is half the pj in terms of performance? The reviews on the Acer thread seem very positive.

they are going to be positive because it fits their budget (most anyones budget actually) and it's not exactly being compared to world beaters. also it goes beyond specs you have to consider color wheel, lens etc. it's an incredible deal for an entry level PJ but those are the key words.

if being at $900 or under without having to mess around with rebates and the like i think there really are only 2 very worthwhile choices - the mitsu hc1500 and the benq w500 however neither of these will be in the realm of the vp4001 for sharpness, shadow detail or blacks so the only question that remains is will you be a casual or a critical viewer?

if critical i would pony up the extra 300 bucks and work my way into a vp4001 if casual i would be very happy with either of the other two.
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post #295 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 12:08 PM
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Don't forget the DT-500, which you also mentioned here before. Looks like a good "in-between" if it can be had for $1000. In fact, if it is true that most users never use the second iris of the vp4001/Z3000, the DT-500 should provide very similar results.
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post #296 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 12:24 PM
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absolutely though i can only ever find it on ebay now and i don't want to get too far off topic since this is a vp4001 thread though i think the dt-500 and z3000 draw some fair and probably near identical comparisons.
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post #297 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 03:14 PM
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Looks like the VP4001 is now available at Costco but it is bundled with a whole bunch of stuff making the price more. Too bad they aren't selling just the pj.

Moe
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post #298 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 05:11 PM
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Never thought I would hear Marantz and Costco in the same sentence.
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post #299 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 05:30 PM
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Aloha All,

So I received the Marantz yesterday afternoon--gotta hand it to the U. and to Fedex. The PJ was even double boxed, however, the PJ box inside was upside down, and there was just packing material on the sides, not on the top or bottom of the inside box. Still, better then most.

First I have to say that the color, pop and black level are fantastic. It looks pretty much exactly like I remember the XV-Z3K to look, with a slightly better color mix out of the box. I know I will get flamed for this, but it looks just as good, if not a bit better then the XV-Z12K--although the 12K is built like a tank, did not get as hot, and had that lovely thing called lens shift. Of course it was also almost twice the price and at least twice the weight!

Chexi1--I tried it using the Panny XR700 as a switcher. It worked perfectly, so I think it must be the monoprice switch that is giving you troubles.

Again, the pic is amazing, however, I am having one problem that I also had with the XV-Z3K as well. This could also be a problem with the user.

I have it squared on a table--don't have my mount yet--and I also have it leveled with a level. However, the picture looks key stoned, with the bottom of the image skinnier then the top. I had to tilt the PJ down about a 1/4 inch to get the pic to look square!

I never noticed this with either my Panny AAE900U or the XV-Z12K.

Now just to be clear, my wall is not perfectly flat either--it seems to have been put together by someone that had a few too many by the time they got to that wall. However, it is not "that" far off.

Has anyone else noticed this with their Marantz?

It is not a deal breaker as the pic is otherwise phenomenal and I can always just tip the mount down a bit. Just curious if I am the only one or if I am doing something wrong.

Cheers,

bdbaba
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post #300 of 2843 Old 09-07-2007, 05:52 PM
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Bdaba,

Be sure that the adjustable leg is all the way down in the front of the pj. Even so, I think it adds a little height at the front that prevents it from really sitting flat. Ceiling mounted, it should not be a problem, especially since you should be able to adjust the screws to tilt if necessary to achieve perfect geometry.

BTW, I have hooked up all my source components that were giving me trouble with component (and confirmed that everything works) and will audition/test/review the Marantz again tomorrow.

Also BTW, preliminary, but it looks like Monoprice is going to come through like champs on my issue.

Now, I'm going to go host a movie night for some friends (still with the Mits).
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