Sanyo PLV-Z2000: 1080p for under $3K - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2158 Old 09-05-2007, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Check the link: Sanyo announced the PLV-Z2000, 1080p, 1200 lumens, 15,000:1 contrast ratio, super quiet fan and a $2995 msrp.

Takers, anyone?
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post #2 of 2158 Old 09-05-2007, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopianemo View Post

Check the link: Sanyo announced the PLV-Z200, 1080p, 1200 lumens, 15,000:1 contrast ratio, super quiet fan and a $2995 msrp.

Takers, anyone?

I'll take two. And BTW, it's a PLV-Z2000 (extra 0 there at the end). I'm hoping they'll have it on live display here in Denver but it's always tough to get things dark enough for FP at a trade show.

Thanks for the link.

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post #3 of 2158 Old 09-05-2007, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the typo correction; I only wish I could change the title.
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post #4 of 2158 Old 09-05-2007, 02:52 PM
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This sounds promising, IF once calibrated it produces the lumens needed for real life viewing. I feel that was the achiles heel of the Z5.
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post #5 of 2158 Old 09-05-2007, 03:19 PM
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Guess we'll have to see it in action vs. the Panny AE2000...which is supposed to be 1500 lumens and 16,000:1. Price not yet known, although my guess is it will street for low 2k.
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post #6 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 08:27 AM
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Nice the same MSRP than the Z4, and i paid 1500$CAD 10 months later..

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #7 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 08:59 AM
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Man, that's a big PJ. I switched to DLP with my current PJ, but would switch back to LCD if this thing has good contrast & deep blacks. The Optoma HD80 DLP is another sub-$3K choice.

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post #8 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 09:24 AM
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My very first projector was a Z4 and I loved it. If the Z2000 has good black levels then I wouldn't hesitate one second to get it. Right now I got the VW60, UB1080, and Z2000 on my list. It'll be interesting to see who pulls ahead once they're all put to the test. Right now there are just too many variables. The VW60 has to be sharper than the VW50, the UB1080 has to be cheap, and the Z2000 has to have good contrast. Oh and they all have to have vertical stretch and 1080/24p support.

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post #9 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 10:53 AM
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Glad to see that Sanyo is finally in the 1080P game.

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post #10 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Man, that's a big PJ. I switched to DLP with my current PJ, but would switch back to LCD if this thing has good contrast & deep blacks. The Optoma HD80 DLP is another sub-$3K choice.

The Optoma HD-80 is nice, but no lens shift as it's a single-chip design. The Z2000 shifts +/-100% vertically, +/-50% horizontally.

On-site demo at CEDIA of the Z2000 was not ideal due to loads of ambient light. We'll be getting a review sample in, but probably not until October or so... It does have a dynamic iris so dynamic contrast should be pretty good but there are some trade-offs with this.

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post #11 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tlreddragon View Post

My very first projector was a Z4 and I loved it. If the Z2000 has good black levels then I wouldn't hesitate one second to get it. Right now I got the VW60, UB1080, and Z2000 on my list. It'll be interesting to see who pulls ahead once they're all put to the test. Right now there are just too many variables. The VW60 has to be sharper than the VW50, the UB1080 has to be cheap, and the Z2000 has to have good contrast. Oh and they all have to have vertical stretch and 1080/24p support.

Add the Panasonic PT-AE2000 to that list. $5999 list but it will street for much less and I'm pretty sure it has vertical stretch (but I admit the last few days have been a blur).

The Epson 1080UB looked impressive with the Panamorph lens and a 2.35:1 screen in their demo. That's expected to be available in November, according to the Epson guys (seems like Sanyo and Panasonic will both beat Epson to the punch with actual implementation of the D7 3LCD chips). The Sanyo is shipping later this month and the Panasonic in October.

Sony was demoing the VW60 with a standard Stewart Studiotek screen, apparently they're not offering the "optimized" screen that they had for the VW-50 any more. Another nice-looking projector, though, with rich colors and excellent detail. I try not to make too many value judgements at shows though... not ideal viewing conditions.

-CB

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post #12 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 08:56 PM
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kakaku says the LP-Z5 lists for 280,000 yen and the LP-Z2000 lists for 360,000 yen. In Japan the Z5 is advertised for 41% of this list price. Of course there are all manner of problems with actually buying one in Japan, but its just a benchmark. There is probably some percent number one could use to estimate selling price in Europe. As a rough ballpark, we could say that the Z2000 will settle down and cost 30% more than the Z5, whatever you happen to be paying for it in pounds, euros, dollars, or yen. At that rate, I think you can imagine what will happen to the 720p market. I agree with the OP, this will could really blow this sector wide open. Once they get enough supply and prices settle down. Most if not all of the half a dozen new 1080p projectors use the same Epson D7 panels so lets hope those are in abundance.

I would also speculate that the slew of cheap, competing 1080p projectors will have a knock-on effect on the 720p market, hurrying it on its way to inevitably becoming like the 480p market. This is why, foreseeing this, manufacturers of panels and boxes alike did not put much effort into 720p this season (e.g. no Z6, though the AX200 is one bright light), and it will only decline further. I think it might take until early 2008 for the panel supply to ramp up, and the Christmas demand to die down, but that is my roadmap for the future.
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post #13 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe Tag View Post

kakaku says the LP-Z5 lists for 280,000 yen and the LP-Z2000 lists for 360,000 yen. In Japan the Z5 is advertised for 41% of this list price. Of course there are all kinds of problems with actually buying one in Japan, but its just a benchmark. There is probably some percent number one could use to estimate selling price in Europe. As a rough ballpark, we could say that the Z2000 will settle down and cost 30% more than the Z5, whatever you happen to be paying for it in pounds, euros, dollars, or yen. I agree with the OP, this will could really blow this sector wide open. Once they get enough supply and prices settle down. Most if not all of the half a dozen new 1080p projectors use the same Epson D7 panels so lets hope those are in abundance.

According to the Epson reps at the 3LCD event here in Denver, only the upcoming Epson 1080UB (for "Ultimate Black" by the way), the Sanyo PLV-Z2000, and the Panasonic PTA-AE2000 are based on the D7 3LCD panel. The Mitsubishi (and others?) are still using the prior generation of panel.

What other 3LCD 1080p projectors are out there now? I've seen new 1080p DLP (mostly single chip), D-ILA and SXRD models in Denver, but who else is making 3LCD 1080p FPs?

-CB

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post #14 of 2158 Old 09-07-2007, 11:42 PM
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JVC announced 2 new 1080p projectors at CEDIA, the DLA-RS2 and the DLA-HD100, though they are expensive and don't use the D7 panels.

SIM2 is a smaller manufacturer of very high end projectors and it introduced its most affordable 3-chip DLP 1080p projector: the C3X1080. How affordable can a SIM2 get? $30,000 in this case.

Runco RS-900 is a single-chip DLP 1080p projector, shipping now, with an $8995 MSRP.

Sony Bravia VPL-VW60 projects a 1920 x 1080 image, the VW200 hits in October for $15k while the VW60 will cost just $5000.

What about Optoma and Benq? Some projectors were announced not at CEDIA but at that other show around the same time in Germany.

Announced way over in Berlin, the new Samsung SP-A8008 1080p DLP projector is a sight to behold. The projector sports a 24fps film mode and a 2,000 hour, 300W lamp that's capable of outputting about 1,000 lumens at a 10,000:1 contrast ratio. The device also sports some hefty ports: two HDMI, RGB for the PC, two component, S-Video and RS-232.

I can't figure out the panels in these yet but I stand corrected by your Epson rep. If you see him again ask him if the panels are in plentiful supply.
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post #15 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe Tag View Post

JVC announced 2 new 1080p projectors at CEDIA, the DLA-RS2 and the DLA-HD100, though they are expensive and don't use the D7 panels.

SIM2 is a smaller manufacturer of very high end projectors and it introduced its most affordable 3-chip DLP 1080p projector: the C3X1080. How affordable can a SIM2 get? $30,000 in this case.

Runco RS-900 is a single-chip DLP 1080p projector, shipping now, with an $8995 MSRP.

Sony Bravia VPL-VW60 projects a 1920 x 1080 image, the VW200 hits in October for $15k while the VW60 will cost just $5000.

What about Optoma and Benq? Some projectors were announced not at CEDIA but at that other show around the same time in Germany.

I can't figure out the panels in these yet but I stand corrected by your Epson rep. If you see him again ask him if the panels are in plentiful supply.

JVC's light engine is D-ILA, not LCD (D/ILA is their version of LCOS). Sony does LCOS too (though they call theirs SXRD). They do have a couple of LCD projectors, but nothing in 1080p (no LCD projectors in 1080p that is). I think Optoma is doing DLP only these days, and they do have fairly new 1080p single chip models. I went to a preview in the spring but I'm not sure if they came out with anything since then. But again, they're DLP, not LCD. I somehow missed their booth today. I'll look around for them tomorrow (oops, today). Runco, SIM2 and DPI are all DLP. Haven't heard anything out of BenQ lately.

I'll also try to stop by the Epson booth again and see what production looks like on the new chips. Epson said their own projector based on the D7 won't be available until November, but that isn't necessarily chip-related. They're concentrating a lot of efffort on the integrated "Ensemble" system which features a front projector, integrated receiver/DVD player, Motorized screen with built in front speakers, ceiling projector mount with integrated rear spekers *and* all the necessary cables and wire management.

The system is pretty damn cool and sells for $4999 in a 720p version and $6999 in a 1080p version. You can read more about it here:

Epson Ensemble Home Theater System

They're demoing the Ensemble 1080 and the 1080 UB at the show.

Later,

-Chris

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post #16 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 06:18 AM
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Chris, I added the Samsung to my post above. I'll just grab whatever 2007 projector can be had in Tokyo on October 7th. ATM it looks like that means the Sanyo PLV-Z2000. I was considering the Panasonic AX200 720p but they say October 29 on their press release (ditto AE2000). I'm willing to go through a little shopping/language adventure and take my chances on the warranty for the remarkable local prices.
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post #17 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopianemo View Post

Check the link: Sanyo announced the PLV-Z2000, 1080p, 1200 lumens, 15,000:1 contrast ratio, super quiet fan and a $2995 msrp.

Takers, anyone?


Not at that price point. We could/should see 1080p FP street at <$2000 after CES in January. The HD80 has been reported close to that now.
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post #18 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 06:35 AM
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According to the Epson reps at the 3LCD event here in Denver, only the upcoming Epson 1080UB (for "Ultimate Black" by the way), the Sanyo PLV-Z2000, and the Panasonic PTA-AE2000 are based on the D7 3LCD panel. The Mitsubishi (and others?) are still using the prior generation of panel.

Another important note is that only Epson's UB model, will boast 4500:1 native contrast, while all the other D7 projectors will only have the regular 1000:1.
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post #19 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

I'll also try to stop by the Epson booth again and see what production looks like on the new chips. Epson said their own projector based on the D7 won't be available until November, but that isn't necessarily chip-related. They're concentrating a lot of efffort on the integrated "Ensemble" system which features a front projector, integrated receiver/DVD player, Motorized screen with built in front speakers, ceiling projector mount with integrated rear spekers *and* all the necessary cables and wire management.

Good to know that it may not be chip related. The reason I asked about production was that the press release for the AE2000 says production will be 500 a month. That seems kinda low. http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/off...n070907-1.html

Referring to that Panasonic TH-AE2000 press release (or its babelfish translation), it says 1500 lumens and 16,000:1 contrast. I didn't notice "native contrast" in there. Sanyo PLV-Z2000 1200 lumens and a 15,000:1 contrast ratio. What about the Epson 1080UB.

Jones: Wouldn't "native contrast" mean, the contract at the panel level. Does your statement imply then that Epson is reserving special different D7 panels for their own use?

edit: is this disinformation... http://techbloggin.com/category/lp-z2000/ says it uses 10 bit panels like the Mitsubishi’s LVP-HC6000 and comes out on November 1. I'm hoping they're wrong on both counts.

See also...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=89896
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896128
http://www.sanyo.de/press/download/P...ENG(final).pdf (this is from Sanyo's german site, so possibly different release dates in Japan and in Germany)
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...ldpremiere.htm says 1600 lumens 50,000:1 dynamic contrast for an Epson EMP-TW2000... what is that and what is the cost...

Maybe ask the Epson rep why panasonic says in their press release they're only making 500 of them a month, what is the Epson EMP-TW2000 versus the 1080UB, and what is the story with their 4500:1 native panels for Epson only?
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post #20 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 07:17 AM
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Jones: Wouldn't "native contrast" mean, the contract at the panel level. Does your statement imply then that Epson is reserving special different D7 panels for their own use?

Exactly.

Epson has made a breakthrough in LCD native contrast, and were unwilling to share it with other companies, at least this year.
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post #21 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 09:35 AM
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Interesting. Also, this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=11544108 says the Epson 1080UB has... 4500:1 native Contrast Ratio (50,000:1 with DI), spec'ed conservatively at 1600 lumens, an update on Gizmodo where Epson confirms the $2700 MSRP.

Here is the Epson 1080UB press release: http://epson.mediaroom.com/index.php...eases&item=146
"DENVER, Sept. 7. The Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 UB will be available in December through authorized CEDIA dealers; pricing will be announced at that time... Three-year limited warranty."

I wonder what the difference is between Epson's "PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 UB" and "PowerLite Home Cinema 1080"... In what regions do they call them "Dreamio".
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post #22 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 12:53 PM
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I wonder what the difference is between Epson's "PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 UB" and "PowerLite Home Cinema 1080"

We'll have to wait and see, but the difference should be big.
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post #23 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe Tag View Post

Interesting. Also, this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=11544108 says the Epson 1080UB has... 4500:1 native Contrast Ratio (50,000:1 with DI), spec'ed conservatively at 1600 lumens, an update on Gizmodo where Epson confirms the $2700 MSRP.

Here is the Epson 1080UB press release: http://epson.mediaroom.com/index.php...eases&item=146
"DENVER, Sept. 7. The Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 UB will be available in December through authorized CEDIA dealers; pricing will be announced at that time... Three-year limited warranty."

I wonder what the difference is between Epson's "PowerLite Pro Cinema 1080 UB" and "PowerLite Home Cinema 1080"... In what regions do they call them "Dreamio".

I spoke with some of the Espon executives. They're not ready to give public MSRP yet (not officially) on the 1080 UB. Only "under $4K." They do not expect any problems keeping up the supply for the chips.

There are *NOT* two sets of specs for the D7 chips, nor two sets of chips. The Epson folks told me the 1080UB (with D7 chip set) can do 4,500:1 native contrast conservatively and yes, up to 50,000:1 with dynamic iris.

When the *final* specs are in on the PLV-Z2000 and PT-AE2000U I think we'll be seeing similar specs for native contrast ratio (same ballpark), although this will depend on the lamps used, lens characteristics and video processing.

Press releases are frequently based on best guess advance estimates and can be wrong. The PT-AE2000U for example has a dynamic contrast of 10,000:1 listed on the press sheet, and 16,000:1 on the plaquard that accompanied the projector on display at the CEDIA Expo.

Don't make up your mind based on advance specs only. Let's see what the production units can really do first.

BTW, I couldn't find Optoma out on the show floor and didn't see them listed as an exhibitor.

Now back to writing up the rest of the show coverage...

Later,

-Chris

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post #24 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 09:22 PM
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Chris, at this preliminary date things are confusing enough, so I'm really glad you were able to talk to the reps and sort out those mysteries.

I guess the only remaining question is what exactly is the white-colored "PowerLite Home Cinema 1080"... does it use the old panels? Anyway, I'm going to see if any of these (probably the Sanyo) are available cheap in Tokyo early next month. If that doesn't work out it would be more sensible to wait for the reviews and final specs to come in. I'll look forward to reading your write-up.

-TT
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post #25 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe Tag View Post

Chris, at this preliminary date things are confusing enough, so I'm really glad you were able to talk to the reps and sort out those mysteries.

I guess the only remaining question is what exactly is the white-colored "PowerLite Home Cinema 1080"... does it use the old panels? Anyway, I'm going to see if any of these (probably the Sanyo) are available cheap in Tokyo early next month. If that doesn't work out it would be more sensible to wait for the reviews and final specs to come in. I'll look forward to reading your write-up.

-TT

the Powerlite 1080 is an existing projector for Epson. I think it's the one they use in the Ensemble 1080 system. Absolutely nothing wrong with that one. But it does not use the new D7 chips as they're not generally available yet.

Any of these would be a great choice. The Sanyo may have a list price of $3K but based on history, I'd expect a street price of around $2K after it has been out for a little while.

-CB

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post #26 of 2158 Old 09-08-2007, 11:29 PM
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Is it on Sanyo's website yet? I saw a model called the PLV-HD2000, buts a 2048 x 1080?? projector.....

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #27 of 2158 Old 09-09-2007, 01:08 AM
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One question has to be asked though. MSRP: Panasonic $6000, Epson $4000, Sanyo $3000. These all have identical panels. Why does Panasonic think they're so special?
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post #28 of 2158 Old 09-10-2007, 01:38 PM
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What is the latest on the date of release for the Sanyo Z2000?
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post #29 of 2158 Old 09-10-2007, 01:50 PM
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What is the latest on the date of release for the Sanyo Z2000?

Nov for Australia
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post #30 of 2158 Old 09-10-2007, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cpc View Post

What is the latest on the date of release for the Sanyo Z2000?

Supposed to be October for the U.S.
TrevorS is offline  
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

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