Official Panasonic AE2000 thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W3bbY View Post

So the least zoom you use the best. So place it where there is enough lumens for you but not further back...as to get the most out of the CR, yes?

Well, on another topic... zoom Lens tends to has slightly more distortion at zoomed end (widest or tele end) and the problem is varies from one unit to another. For instance, sharpness & chromatic aberration (CA). Some would urgued it's best to set zoom distance range right in the middle for mininium distortion. Sharpness can be easier corrected with adjustment but CA is a biiitch for white texture vs high contrast background. I'm happy to say i see no such defect with ae2000u. Mine is somewhere around 1.4x zoom. I figured it's ok to get avearge lumens and CR while maintaining mininium lens distortion as well.
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post #722 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 02:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrumpff View Post

Thanks Budda.. Appretiate any free advice when I can get it ... But I too have been reading this whole thread from start to finish and am seeing many people worried about light output to a 110" screen certainly has me a little concerned about pulling the trigger for a 135" screen.. Especially when I'm importing the projector from the US to Australia... (Returning is not an option!)

You will pushing it with a 135in screen.To much in my opion.I would do 120in and use a shorter throw,This fp is bright.But 135in is to big for any 1080p fp unless you go the 3chip dlp that cost $10k and up.135in is to big for any 720p also not because of light but the pixel at that size makes for a crappy pic IMHO.Hope this helps.
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post #723 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 02:04 PM
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Buddy all you got to remember is that the closer the light source aka the projector is to the screen the brighter the image will be. you will lose a samll amount of contrast. Not 40 percent
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post #724 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 02:07 PM
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ps 3 question guys i bought one yesterday to play mostly blue ray disc,, does this unit play sd/ dvds well and does it upscale to 1080/p ? or whatever the best upscale avaiable ..man i am almost longing for the days when you just plugged the tv in and were good to go. trying to determine my throw distance too for a 114 think i will go 13 ft ? will my lamberts be ok carada 114 bw some ambient light... needs my football
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post #725 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 02:13 PM
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You would not actually lose any contrast because as you get closer the dark areas are getting "brighter" more slowly that the bright areas.

get closer and "bright spot" doubles from 50 to 100 "arbitrary units of brightness"
the "dark spot" doubles from 5 to 10 units of brightness -- same contrast.

The interesting thing is when calculating any sort of ambient light, even an infinitesimal reflected amount, you see that the brighter position actually results in BETTER contrast.
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post #726 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Thinking about it like that, your actual best spot for best "contrast", highest on/off and ANSI CR, would be the middle zoom point. The difference between one area and the area next to it would easier to see with the mid-point zoom.


nah, brightest is best for a given projector's contrast. So if ambient light is 5 and your bright spot is 100 and your dark spot is 10 you are much more contrasty than if you go for the bigger picture, and geta bright spot of 50 and a dark spot of 7.

Your ambient and reflected light are likely to remain the same since lumen output is the same.

Now, I have to admit, this does not take in to account any of the claims that brightness is severely reduced at the long throw with this projector, which, by the way, makes no sense unless you are in a smoky room or the they used poor optical glass -- light in = light out, any lost light is being "scattered" either by the glass or by the air in between.

P.S. Brightest is best for contrast for any given ambient light situation -- but me, I still like a GREAT BIG IMAGE -- after all, CRT's toast all these pj's for contrast, but who wants that?
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post #727 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 02:39 PM
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from projector ppl, called for stock status and I wound up ordering the damn thing.

Anyway, I also orderd this ghetto screen

If anyone has an opinion on this setup pls let me know, so I can cancel the screen order.

Can't wait for cod4 on 100in screen. Im probably gonna have a heart attack.
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post #728 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 02:46 PM
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Good point about the f/stop -- the distance the the lens is moving away from the pupil is probably the biggest factor in that "40%" drop-off. Thanks for the insight.
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post #729 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 03:18 PM
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post #730 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 03:19 PM
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ps 3 question guys i bought one yesterday to play mostly blue ray disc,, does this unit play sd/ dvds well and does it upscale to 1080/p ? or whatever the best upscale avaiable ..man i am almost longing for the days when you just plugged the tv in and were good to go. trying to determine my throw distance too for a 114 think i will go 13 ft ? will my lamberts be ok carada 114 bw some ambient light... needs my football
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post #731 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy n la View Post

ps 3 question guys i bought one yesterday to play mostly blue ray disc,, does this unit play sd/ dvds well and does it upscale to 1080/p ? or whatever the best upscale avaiable ..man i am almost longing for the days when you just plugged the tv in and were good to go. trying to determine my throw distance too for a 114 think i will go 13 ft ? will my lamberts be ok carada 114 bw some ambient light... needs my football

ps3 upscales as DVD beautifully. No issue there. I have a 100 inch carada be. I'll know later tonight whether its bright enough. From prior posts my guess is that normal will be plenty bright for football with some ambient light.
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post #732 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 03:33 PM
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thanks elicon i appreciate that
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post #733 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantMeThePower View Post

Hi all.

So I finally received my AE2000U yesterday and unpacked it and mounted it. I haven't even turned it on yet, though, so unfortunately impressions and comparisons will have to wait until tonight.

I know its been stated here, but I need to reiterate: This thing is BIG. I mean really BIG. Its not very heavy, but I couldn't believe the size. is this how large the AE1000u was?

I'm coming from a BenQ 8700+, which was heavier, but it was definetly much smaller than the panny. I had that unit ISF calibrated by AviCal and I really look forward to seeing how it compares, especially the black levels, to this unit.

I do have a couple questions about set up (and one about cleaning):

1. The PS3 and the Onkyo 805 both support xvYCC (as does the panny). Should I turn that to "on" for all of them? My other components are the SA 8300 cable box, A2 HDDVD, Xbox360 and an HTPC

2. On the PS3 there is an extended black range, that I know i should set to off (or normal, whatever their wording is because, if i understand it correctly, this projector uses the correct video levels and turning that on the ps3 would send the incorrect black of 0-255 rather than 16-255) That being said, there is also an enhanced white level or something. I'm not sure what this does. Do I want to turn that one?

3. Cleaning my screen- i have a DaLite Cinema Vision screen (1.3 gain) and it says to clean it with water and mild soap. Is dish soap ok, or is it too aggressive in dissolving the layers on the screen?

4. Any other set up tips knowing my components to get the best results?

Thanks!

Anyone? thanks again.
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post #734 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 04:08 PM
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Follow up questions:

For the HDMI inputs, is it better to send the Panasonic RGB or YCbCr? Are the HDMI inputs expecting 0-255 or 16-255?
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post #735 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantMeThePower View Post

Follow up questions:

For the HDMI inputs, is it better to send the Panasonic RGB or YCbCr? Are the HDMI inputs expecting 0-255 or 16-255?

My initial testing shows color decoding to be broken for 1080p/RGB, but working OK for 1080p/YCbCr when using Color 1. 480p seems OK either way. I'll know more in a few days, but stick with YCbCr for now.

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post #736 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

NO!

No zoom would mean max throw the farthest back for that particular size( aka wide zoom).

Zoom max would be closest to the screen, min throw for that particular size, ( aka telephoto)

Read my post here:

Gotcha!! So many people say opposite then orers say this.
It can be confusing out here!
I guess I need to trust my eyes as well.
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post #737 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

If you read back further, someone already answered that.

By default if the device sends YCbCr then the PJ should be set to Normal, 16-255 levels. RGB would be PC levels, 0-255 by default.

If you're using a different color space than REC709 or D-Cinema, then sending the projector RBG and Expanded setting would result in the least amount of overly green saturation, such as a DVD or cable box which sends out say REC601 but also sends RGB over HDMI.

Hi...i've been with this thread since the first post. I hadn't seen that addressed yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csundbom View Post

My initial testing shows color decoding to be broken for 1080p/RGB, but working OK for 1080p/YCbCr when using Color 1. 480p seems OK either way. I'll know more in a few days, but stick with YCbCr for now.

Thanks for the info. That helps a lot. Too bad that RGB isn't working. By "broken" does that mean that the RGB is expecting "full" inputs of 0-255, rather that sRGB levels?
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post #738 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 05:07 PM
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I think that YCBCr is the suggested way to go for PS3 Bluray output, but games are done at RGB. Setting the PS3 to automatic will output YCbCr for video and RGB for games, if it recognizes that the monitor can handle it. One of the beauties of HDMI is that it is supposed to allow the devices to communicate with each other. I think. Man, this is so confusing...

XBOX Live / PSN: Choocheroo
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post #739 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantMeThePower View Post

By "broken" does that mean that the RGB is expecting "full" inputs of 0-255, rather that sRGB levels?

No, the levels are correct.

The projector process data in YCbCr. It needs to convert RGB data to YCbCr, to implement color/tint, before converting data back to RGB for display.

My testing shows it uses BT.601 on the input side (RGB->YCbCr) and BT.709 on the output side (YCbCr->RGB) when fed HD signals, resulting in muted greens and some red errors. It's a pretty common video processing bug, and many consumer sets suffer from this. A firmware upgrade is required to fix. You could also use an external video processor to compensate, or just make sure you feed it YCbCr.

SD over RGB is processed with BT.601 on both input and output sides.

I need to do more testing to confirm this, but it will take a couple of days.

Carl Sundbom
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post #740 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliocon View Post

ps3 upscales as DVD beautifully. No issue there. I have a 100 inch carada be. I'll know later tonight whether its bright enough. From prior posts my guess is that normal will be plenty bright for football with some ambient light.

I'd like to second this, the PS3 does a great job with SD DVD. Much better than the XBOX 360 in my opinion.
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post #741 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

That really sucks! That means my Xbox 360 using HDMI will mess up colors, because the 360 only outputs RGB over HDMI!

Can you contact Panasonic and tell them the error so this can be fixed, so both RGB and YCbCr output the correct color space, or at least offer a setting to choose the correct color space of REC709? You'd know more how to explain this to Panasonic than any of us. Thanks for your testing!

I will. I first need to collect and double-check all data to make a bullet-proof case. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong about this and there is some other factor I didn't consider. I'll keep all of you posted.

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post #742 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Can you contact Panasonic and tell them the error so this can be fixed, so both RGB and YCbCr output the correct color space, or at least offer a setting to choose the correct color space of REC709? You'd know more how to explain this to Panasonic than any of us. Thanks for your testing!

This issue has been complained about ay least as far back as the 700.

ted
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post #743 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

That really sucks! That means my Xbox 360 using HDMI will mess up colors, because the 360 only outputs RGB over HDMI!

Can you contact Panasonic and tell them the error so this can be fixed, so both RGB and YCbCr output the correct color space, or at least offer a setting to choose the correct color space of REC709? You'd know more how to explain this to Panasonic than any of us. Thanks for your testing!

Oops. I am considering the AE2000 primarily for gaming on the 360. If it does indeed have issue with handling the 360 HDMI out then the AE2000 is out of the running for my upgrade this year. Has anyone reported a similar issue with AX200 which is marketed as "the" projector for gaming ?
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post #744 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 06:23 PM
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you wont notice much on games, I dont think. the concern is movies. Most games aren't so exact in the colors that it would make a huge difference, especially if the luminance is correct.

Also, the same will be seen on HTPC's and ps3 for games. They all output in RGB. The thing is, that they are not set for 601 or 709 as far as I know, and only concern themselves with sRGB color space....of course more knowledgable people can be more specific.

Bottom line is, for games, not a big deal. Just make sure the movie components are correct.
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post #745 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csundbom View Post

No, the levels are correct.

The projector process data in YCbCr. It needs to convert RGB data to YCbCr, to implement color/tint, before converting data back to RGB for display.

My testing shows it uses BT.601 on the input side (RGB->YCbCr) and BT.709 on the output side (YCbCr->RGB) when fed HD signals, resulting in muted greens and some red errors. It's a pretty common video processing bug, and many consumer sets suffer from this. A firmware upgrade is required to fix. You could also use an external video processor to compensate, or just make sure you feed it YCbCr.

SD over RGB is processed with BT.601 on both input and output sides.

I need to do more testing to confirm this, but it will take a couple of days.

Thanks for the clarification.

If I may, one more question which you may or may not be able to answer at this point in time:

Should the RGB levels be set at normal or expanded for input sources (sRGB or full RGB) for getting the correct levels in the panny.

thank you again.
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post #746 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 06:34 PM
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So Casey brought his AE over tonight to put up against the stack.

This projector is AWESOME. Love it.

Teaser shot:

BD 1080P PS3 10ft Wide SMX Screen.





Cliff
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post #747 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 06:38 PM
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post #748 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 06:41 PM
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Cliff, how do you like dark scenes or images, with the AE200u, compared to the stack?
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post #749 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 07:12 PM
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Just replaced an AE900 with the AE2000. I've got a 16ft throw to a 1.3 gain, 103in diag. screen. Color and contrast are outstanding, though I'm not nearly sophisticated enough to be doing any measurements they look great to me. Brightness is definitely a step up and just fine for my purposes as I can completely control the light. Though at some point I may either replace the screen or move the projector closer to get even better since I generally like having some ambient light in the room.

However, the first thing I put up was a basketball game on ESPN (DirecTV HD). It was really bad. The artifacts and motion blur are terrible. I THINK it's just the compressed 720P signal from DTV and the junk just shows up much more dramatically on my much better projector. Is that a good assumption? Sorry if this is a dumb question. I'll look at more stuff later but sports is a major draw and I sure hope this isn't something I'll be living with on Sunday....

dave

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post #750 of 3926 Old 11-07-2007, 07:20 PM
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Oh my... if Cliff really likes it, it might actually be time to upgrade. Heck, it's been what... a whole 2 months since I bought my last pj!

Hey Cliff, do you have (and are those screen shots from) an anamorphic set up?
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