Official Panasonic AE2000 thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Falejczyk View Post

Huh? Are you telling me my PB12 Plus/2 is going to shake any projector I use?? I just installed my component rack next to it, and every time King Kong roared, the 1/4" ply back panel resonated like an air horn! That I can fix, but not a projector.

I've yet to buy my projector. It's either the Panny 200, 2000, or the new 1080p Sanyo.

oh snap not to take this thread OT but SVS is nuts

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post #182 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 02:33 PM
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More Pics yet again:


Pic1: Normal mode (my favorite so far)
Pic2: Dynamic mode (brighter but colors off for now)
Pic3: Color1 mode

These are straight out-of-the-box pics w/no tweaking done. Pics were taken w/ a "cheap" Canon compact digital camera.....
LL
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post #183 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repdetect2 View Post

PSB,

How does it perform with some slight ambient light? Can you take a screenshot of that?

I am soooo jealous


Some ambient light is fine.....this thing is close to a "light cannon" as you can get.....of course total light control is recommended to get the best black levels, color fidelity, etc. but I can see this being in a "family" room. (I have mine in a dedicated theater room).
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post #184 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 02:38 PM
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There's some pincoushining going on in your pics..is that with a 2.35 lense - or is that on a 1.78 screen?

All interesting questions because casino royale is a 2.35 movie and the black bars seem non existent would indicate excellent black levels?

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post #185 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmalloc View Post

There's some pincoushining going on in your pics..is that with a 2.35 lense - or is that on a 1.78 screen?

All interesting questions because casino royale is a 2.35 movie and the black bars seem non existent would indicate excellent black levels?

ELmO



I have the usual 16 X 9 screen........I think that's a 1.78? I'll check on the pin-cushioning.........but I believe that's most likely due to my Cannon digital camera being in the "wide" setting (28mm) when I snapped the pic. (I also had to crouch down to take the pic as to not block the image with my head)
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post #186 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 02:46 PM
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Yup.....I checked......all the pics I posted were taken with my camera in "wide" lens mode (28mm).........which explains the "pin-cushioning."...........BTW, black levels are excellent!
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post #187 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 02:49 PM
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Quote:


More Pics yet again:


Pic1: Normal mode (my favorite so far)
Pic2: Dynamic mode (brighter but colors off for now)
Pic3: Color1 mode

These are straight out-of-the-box pics w/no tweaking done. Pics were taken w/ a "cheap" Canon compact digital camera.....

PSB, at least according to the pics you've posted, color1, by far, looks the most natural. Normal mode looks cartoonish.
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post #188 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Why normal? Even on your cheap compact digicam you can see the ringing on the normal compared to the Color1. Look at the blade on the plane, it has this white ring around it, it's not in the second picture. It's not being added by the camera either, it's on the first set of pics too. Look at her cheeks, you'll notice normal is smoothed out and you can't see the imperfections on her face, but can with Color1.

Pics aren't 100% "useless", it'll show to some extent what kind of image processing is done to the picture. Also it clearly shows how violently more red is in the normal mode compared to Color1. I can personally tell you that's about the same amount or more as when I saw it in the two modes.

Color1 is too dark for me......maybe after some tweaking, it'll get better? We'll see...........as for the posted pics, yeah you can get some idea of what the pj is capable of but once again, don't put too much into it. There's simply way too many variables that you can't control. It's like judging how good a speaker sounds merely by listening to a posted MP3 file.
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post #189 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:08 PM
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I think this whole issue of image preference is very much like the issue of sound/music preference. So far, I like the "normal" picture setting on my Panny........which to some may seem like a "blasphemy." Maybe with some tweaking, I can get colors just right......but if I can't, so what?.....that's how I like it. The dynamic setting is too bright for me and the colors oversaturated......some may like this and it's their choice.....there's no right or wrong about it. Some people find Klipsch speakers too harsh and "bright"........others find it "detailed" and "exact"......once again, no right or wrong about it. So far, from what I've seen in my short time with it today, I'm quite impressed with the AE2000.
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post #190 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:09 PM
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Left is "Normal".
Right is "Color1".

How could you prefer the left according to this comparison ???
LL
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post #191 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

Left is "Normal", right is "Color1". How could you prefer left according to this comparison ???



It isn't that obvious in reality.......once again, don't put everything into those pics! (also, color1 is much darker than you see in the posted pic.....my camera boosted the ISO to 800 to get an adequate image).
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post #192 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:16 PM
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Quote:


I'd like to see pictures displaying the projector's blaclk level. For example, the black bars of a 2.35:1 image next to black velvet (from screen, etc.). Any chance you have the Dark City DVD?

I’ll find something similar for the task, I don’t have the dark city.
Quote:


How do games look on the new projector? Just curious as my setup would be a PS3/360/Wii...

Thanks, and love the pics...

I own zero game tittle. , sorry. But I will have my first ps3 game when my wound heals completely.
Quote:


Did you notice if the problem varies with zoom and lens-shift settings? It may be the lens the one to blame and not the panels.

Zoom about 1.4x and Pj seats within 10% of axis, almost center. So it should be fall within minimum mechanical defect if any.
Quote:


Would you say that there's a sharpness issue with the AE2000? Could you compare it with other 1080 PJs, like eg Optoma HD80 or Benq W9000 or Sony VW60 (if you have seen any them, of course)?

No, I prefer to have an option able to turn ss on/off than a fixed variable. That doesn’t imply that it’s soft. As you can see, PSB says it’s very sharp compare to his aw50. This smart sharpnening/Detail Clarity Processor + smooth screen thingie would be very beneficial to users with less than 1.5x screen distance. I think the reviewer would be using term like film-like with a touch of clarity.
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post #193 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

PSB, at least according to the pics you've posted, color1, by far, looks the most natural. Normal mode looks cartoonish.


I agree color 1 looks very good.In normal his face is orange
On my ax100 I do like the normal mode.But the colors had to be
tone down some what.Thanks PSB for taking the time to show us.
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post #194 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

Left is "Normal".
Right is "Color1".

How could you prefer the left according to this comparison ???

Wow...


I would like to see the comparison of color 1 and cinema 1.
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post #195 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:25 PM
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I think the Best suggestion here for anybody who's seriously interested in the AE2000 and for those with a thousand questions is to simply audition the machine at your local retailer or at a friend's who has the machine.....or better yet buy the machine from a reputable dealer, try it out at home in your favorite room in ideal settings, and if you don't like it, return it.......simple as that. Owners can post a thousand pictures here and if it wasn't dsclosed where it came from, it could be from a thousand different projectors. Audition it and see it for yourself.
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post #196 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:36 PM
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PSB,
Your comment that Color1 seem too dark on your screen concerns me, because that's the mode I'll want to use with this projector.

Can you specify the exact values you used for the following options ?:
1. You used 110" 16:9 screen, right ?
2. Lamp on eco or normal ?
3. The zoom range on the AE2000 goes from 1 (smallest screen) to 2 (biggest screen), at which point between 1 and 2 are you using it ? ? (zoom point dramatically changes brightness).

For example, the AX200 projector is an amazing light canon, but when you use it on Cinema1 (which I think is the equivalent to color1 of the AE2000, in terms of brightness), with lamp on eco and zoom on 1, you only get ~250 lumens, which is not enough to drive a 110" screen (You only get 6.9 foot lamberts, where the minimum recommended is about 12).
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post #197 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSB View Post

I think this whole issue of image preference is very much like the issue of sound/music preference. So far, I like the "normal" picture setting on my Panny........which to some may seem like a "blasphemy." Maybe with some tweaking, I can get colors just right......but if I can't, so what?.....that's how I like it. The dynamic setting is too bright for me and the colors oversaturated......some may like this and it's their choice.....there's no right or wrong about it. Some people find Klipsch speakers too harsh and "bright"........others find it "detailed" and "exact"......once again, no right or wrong about it. So far, from what I've seen in my short time with it today, I'm quite impressed with the AE2000.


PSB, I just want to thank you for taking the time to post pics & respond to some of the posts on here thus far. Ultimately, the color you like is what matters most.
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post #198 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSB View Post

I think this whole issue of image preference is very much like the issue of sound/music preference. So far, I like the "normal" picture setting on my Panny........which to some may seem like a "blasphemy."

I've had my AE1000 for 8 months and I've finally realised that I prefer 'Cinema 1' to the much lauded 'Colour 1' and I tweak the 'Low Gamma' to +2 or +3 to bring up dark shadow detail...I like it so much better, I've deceided to wait until next year at least before replacing it. With the 'offical' settings I was dissatisfied with dark films/scenes and thinking I'd wasted my money or was over picky. It what you like that matters..just like adding a bit of bass or treble on your amp. Thanks for taking the time to show us the screenshots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantMeThePower View Post

Wow...


I would like to see the comparison of color 1 and cinema 1.

I'd be interested, but maybe the difference might not be picked up by the camera as it seems quite subtle in the flesh with the AE1000, more todo with shadow detail it seemed to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSB View Post

Audition it and see it for yourself.

Amen...only your eyes matter in the end.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #199 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

Left is "Normal".
Right is "Color1".

How could you prefer the left according to this comparison ???

I agree. But I'm sure PSB isn't blind and the pics don't accurately reflect what he's really seeing.

Let's not beg for pictures then berate people about them
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post #200 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

Let's not beg for pictures then berate people about them

Exactly, he took the time to do something for us since there is not too mant pictures so far in this thread....
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post #201 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:00 PM
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Quote:


I agree. But I'm sure PSB isn't blind and the pics don't accurately reflect what he's really seeing.

Let's not beg for pictures then berate people about them

I just thought that maybe PSB liked the colors of color1 better, but this mode simply did not provide enough lumens for his 110" screen, so as a compromise he went with "Normal", which even though gives less accurate colors, can still drive his 110" screen...
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post #202 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:00 PM
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What exactly does cinema 1 do to the image?

I've read the manual and its not very specific about the settings other than color 1 and color 2.
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post #203 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:03 PM
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That's the "danger" of posting pics.........some "expert" will use that as "biblical" fact to point out the apparent flaw/inferiority in the projector. Some of the projectors I've had in the past include the Sanyo PLV-70, Sharp Z12000, Optoma H79, and Sony VW-50.........and I'll tell you, the Panny has a brighter, sharper and more dynamic picture that any of those. But don't rely everything on what I or anybody here say............audition, audition, audition.
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post #204 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:04 PM
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and audition some more!

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post #205 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Cinema1 uses the Dcinema color space, which is absolutely 100% useless unless you film your own movies using the Dcinema standard. Color1 uses ITU-R BT 709 for HDTV. Color2 uses an eye candy J6P version of Color1 for more "pop" and "vivid" images, which also turns on many "image enhancement" features too.

Interesting, because the manual says that color 2 is SMTPE431-2 DCDM (whatever that means! lol).

It says the same as you said for color1

Cinema 1 just says "Hollywood colors"
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post #206 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

I just thought that maybe PSB liked the colors of color1 better, but this mode simply did not provide enough lumens for his 110" screen, so as a compromise he went with "Normal", which even though gives less accurate colors, can still drive his 110" screen...


.....Yes, that's right. The colors on Color1 maybe more accurate than "normal" mode, but it's so dim on my 110" screen, it's almost unwatchable. Maybe some vigorous tweaking may change that later but for right now, I'm happy with "normal" mode. But as I mentioned before, I prefer a more bright and livelier image than anything else.......nothing wrong with that. (It's one of the primary reasons why I bought the Panny). If some "guru" tells me otherwise, they can go take a flying leap off of some very tall structure.
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post #207 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:18 PM
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How is the projector for watching football? Any problems with white stripes having color fringing? Is the motion smooth? I read a few posts that the RS1 had a weird color effect on the black/white strips of an official's uniform. I'm also concerned with sharpness when the players/ball is moving quickly across the screen.
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post #208 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:23 PM
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it ok if you watchinga bad team like the bengals the ball wont move fast

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post #209 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reio-ta View Post

Oh, Cinema1 is simulating Dcinema within the REC 709 color space (so my stance still stands, stupid). Color2 is the actual BRAND NEW Dcinema color space which hasn't even been finalized yet which is based off of REC 709 but with an extended gamut. So if Blu-ray or HD-DVD ever use D-Cinema colors, you'll be set! Otherwise the other modes are pretty much marketing mumbo jumbo.

RP 431-2-2007 D-Cinema Quality - Reference Projector and Environment

What would be the advantage to cinema1?
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post #210 of 3926 Old 11-01-2007, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones_Rush View Post

I just thought that maybe PSB liked the colors of color1 better, but this mode simply did not provide enough lumens for his 110" screen, so as a compromise he went with "Normal", which even though gives less accurate colors, can still drive his 110" screen...

I believe you are 100% correct! According to my friend who is evaluating the Panny 2000 for post production work, the unit outputs ~400 lumens in Color1 and ~1,000 lumens in Normal! Normal, however is very inaccurate.

The reason I asked PSB to look at Color1 is that for a lot of people brighter is better, period. If they are looking at two settings, they will choose the brighter one. If they compare two projectors, they will choose the brighter one. Unfortunately, thats the HVS for you.
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