Now what? Shot 18g Nail Through My HDMI Cable - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 11-13-2007, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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So I recently ran HDMI cables to my 58" Panny Plasma and Panny Front PJ after getting a PS3 and an HD-DVD player. Tested and retested everything before closing up walls and ceiling (no crawl space BTW).... both displays looked beautiful. Tested again after closing up with drywall, before tape/mud; everything perfect. When ahead and taped/muddeed, painted walls and ceiling.

Mounted crown molding... next day Dish Network HD gets installed. Test run to to Plasma = GOLD!!! Test run to PJ = F@#%!!!!!! No signal. Remove section of crown directly above my components, where the HDMI Cable enters the ceiling behind the crown and sure enough, nice pin hole in the cable from one of the 18g nails I used to nail the crown to the wall.

The good news is I have a working component run to my PJ. I am not about to open up all my walls to run another HDMI cable; no conduit so can't just fish/pull new one. So the only option I can think of is to splice the cable right where the hole is. I can access that point easily and have enough slack to cut the cable and splice.

SO.... my question is it possible to splice the HDMI? Have no idea since I have never cut one open. Can you think of another option?

I feel really stupid right now. Appreciate any help you guys can give this Cuban Homer Simpson.

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post #2 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 04:45 AM
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It does seem you could buy the correct connectors and couple it right there without issue. I don't think I'd ever feel good about an actual splice.
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post #3 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 05:20 AM
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I feel your pain!!!!! I did the same thing recently. Nightmare too.

Have you ever seen the innerds of an HDMI cable? Lots & lots of little tiny wires. I've never seen connectors for sale and i wouldn't try to splice but give it a shot if you must.

I'd say screw it, just use component. You won't see a difference. Don't even look back. Unless you absolutely have to use more inputs the component is every bit as good.

By the way... running more then one type of cable is a must, yes? Good thinking and pre-planning.
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post #4 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 05:24 AM
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It is not possible to splice the HDMI cable. Each cable has 19 thin wires in it and it would be nearly impossible to do it. Is there any way to snake a new cable in the wall?
That is really the only answer.
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post #5 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 05:39 AM
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Go to one end of the cable and tie/tape a new one on. Pull the old cable out from the other end which will effectively remove the old cable and also run your new one at the same time. Just a thought. That's what i do for ethernet/coax runs in my house. Dunno how well it will work with hdmi. I also tie actual fishing line to new cable runs so if i ever need to run another cable in the same place in the future i can tie the new cable to the fishing line and pull it through with another fishing line....etc etc... That way you always have an easy way to run future wiring.
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post #6 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 05:52 AM
 
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Use component. you can't fix the HDMI cable.
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post #7 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 06:00 AM
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As was said above, chances of success on a literal 'splice' are low with an HDMI cable. But if by 'splice' you mean 'one male-male cable and one male-female cable'... well, that just might work out fine! I think Monoprice has M-F cables up to 25 ft long.
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post #8 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 06:01 AM
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Not possible? I have seen installations where the HDMI runs have been termnated to a wall jack. Surely those runs did not come terminated to that connector did they?
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post #9 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 07:58 AM
 
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Yes they did! HDMI has too tight of tolerance to terminate by hand. If the length of one on those wires is off my more than 1mm it won't work. soldering on connectors isn't practical and there aren't any available that I am aware of. The wall jacks are nothing more than a double female connector mounted onto a wall jack. That is one of many reasons why installers hate HDMI is it can't be field terminated and you have to try to pull that connector throught all your holes. HDMI certainly didn't consult anybody that works in installation before they designed it. Here is an example of a wall plate, click on the third picture.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

There are some other solutions for installers that use Cat 5, proprietary cables, fiber optic, etc but they all require an adapter or balan to work. None terminate an HDMI cable itself.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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post #10 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 08:12 AM
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Dang. Thanks for the info... This fact makes a great case for conduit.
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post #11 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouscuban View Post

no conduit so can't just fish/pull new one.

Why can't you? Just because you have conduit doesn't mean you can't fish. You have the existing HDMI line as a fish, and the connector is likely small enough to come through. Secure one end of a new cable to the good end of the old one and get pulling (gently). I'd wrap the connector in masking tape (low tack) and cover that with high-tack duct tape that anchors onto the cable. That way, you're not cleaning goo off your connector, just the cable. If you get stuck, you know where the cable is run in your wall--measure what you've pulled so far and go punch a small hole in your drywall. It's risky if you went a little happy with a nail gun, but when HDCP comes you may not be able to use any of those sources on your component run. Good luck!

I need a new hobby.
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post #12 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouscuban View Post

So I recently ran HDMI cables to my 58" Panny Plasma and Panny Front PJ after getting a PS3 and an HD-DVD player. Tested and retested everything before closing up walls and ceiling (no crawl space BTW).... both displays looked beautiful. Tested again after closing up with drywall, before tape/mud; everything perfect. When ahead and taped/muddeed, painted walls and ceiling.

Mounted crown molding... next day Dish Network HD gets installed. Test run to to Plasma = GOLD!!! Test run to PJ = F@#%!!!!!! No signal. Remove section of crown directly above my components, where the HDMI Cable enters the ceiling behind the crown and sure enough, nice pin hole in the cable from one of the 18g nails I used to nail the crown to the wall.

The good news is I have a working component run to my PJ. I am not about to open up all my walls to run another HDMI cable; no conduit so can't just fish/pull new one. So the only option I can think of is to splice the cable right where the hole is. I can access that point easily and have enough slack to cut the cable and splice.

SO.... my question is it possible to splice the HDMI? Have no idea since I have never cut one open. Can you think of another option?

I feel really stupid right now. Appreciate any help you guys can give this Cuban Homer Simpson.

You might try installing a junction box at the location of the nail and pull enough slack into the j-box and splice there.
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post #13 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I am highly doubtful that fishing a new cable by attaching it to the old will work. There are approximately 17 ceiling joists that the cable passes through and the holes are not much bigger than the connector on the HDMI cable. I guess as a last resort, I can pull the new cable in stages by cutting the old one and attaching the new one to it at each stage or section of the pull. The old cable is worthless at this point so it won't hurt to cut it.

First step though, will be to splice the cable and see if I can find the wire that the nail hit and fix it. Worse case, it doesn't work and I am back where I started.

The only problem I have with using my component cable run is that my Yamaha receiver only has two component inputs and I have 4 devices that I would potentially watch on the PJ. I am planning on upgrading my AV receiver to one with both component and HDMI so this will be a non-issue was I do so. I may just have to live with manually connecting the source when I am going to watch until then. I will probably get it around Christmas, maybe black Friday if I find a deal.

Which brings me to another question... What AV receiver do you guys recommend. I currently own a Yahama RX-V1500 and have been very happy with it. I am looking for the following in a new receiver:

7.1 Surround
Min 3 HDMI 1.3 Inputs
Min 4 Component Inputs
Codecs for the new DTS signals that HD-DVD and BluRay support
Min 100W per Channel

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post #14 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 10:41 AM
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One more thing to keep in mind. No upconverting with the HD-DVD player over component.

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If the Theater is a Rockin, don't come a Knocking!

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post #15 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


One more thing to keep in mind. No upconverting with the HD-DVD player over component.

What if I have the HD-DVD player connected to an AV Receiver, via HDMI, and then the Output from the AV Receiver to the PJ via component. Will it upconvert STD DVD then?

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post #16 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouscuban View Post

There are approximately 17 ceiling joists that the cable passes through and the holes are not much bigger than the connector on the HDMI cable.

Hmm. OK, how about fishing something you CAN splice and terminate?

http://www.amazon.com/Gefen-EXT-HDMI.../dp/B000HS3PY8

It's pricey, but think of the cost of a new HDMI cable, tearing up your walls, and (of course) your labor. Cut the good end terminator off your broken HDMI cable, buy some shielded Cat-5 and tie it on. No plug to get stuck. Run more than one for futureproofing.

I need a new hobby.
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post #17 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 03:15 PM
 
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The Cat 5 would be easier but for the HDMI extenders you need to run TWO cat 5 cables. Still it would be easier than trying to pull another HDMI cable.

Bob
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post #18 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 04:28 PM
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Have you looked into Rapid Run. Might be small enough to pull using damaged cable as fish.
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post #19 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 05:10 PM
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I assume you tried it after removing the nail and it didn't work, right? If it doesn't work, it seems like you have nothing to lose by carefully cutting it open around the nail hole to reveal the internal wires. If they are color coded and you can see an obvious short or open, fix it, and try to maintain the proper twisted pairs. Worth while to at least look.
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post #20 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I assume you tried it after removing the nail and it didn't work, right?

Yup... removed the nail hoping that none of the wires were cut and the nail was simply shorting the signal but no dice. I can see exactly where the hole in the cable jacket is, where the nail penetrated. Next step, I will carefully cut open the cable jacket and expose the internal wires. Hopefully I can see exactly the wire or two, or ten that was cut by the nail and be able to splice them together again. That's the plan at least. If that doesn't work, I can then move to plan B which is trying to use the old cable to fish the new one.

So does anyone have any suggestions for an AV Receiver???

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post #21 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouscuban View Post

What if I have the HD-DVD player connected to an AV Receiver, via HDMI, and then the Output from the AV Receiver to the PJ via component. Will it upconvert STD DVD then?

Won't work with any consumer level AVR. They won't convert HDMI (w/ HDCP) to component. There are grey market boxes that will take HDMI to VGA (and probably component) that are made for CRT projectors that don't have HDMI. Basically if you want anything other than HDTV above 480p you need HDMI.

As for pulling, use a pull string and get yourself some cable lubricant. If you got one cable through you can get another one through. Hardest thing will be if you made any hard corners.
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post #22 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouscuban View Post

I am highly doubtful that fishing a new cable by attaching it to the old will work. There are approximately 17 ceiling joists that the cable passes through and the holes are not much bigger than the connector on the HDMI cable. I guess as a last resort, I can pull the new cable in stages by cutting the old one and attaching the new one to it at each stage or section of the pull. The old cable is worthless at this point so it won't hurt to cut it.

First step though, will be to splice the cable and see if I can find the wire that the nail hit and fix it. Worse case, it doesn't work and I am back where I started.

The only problem I have with using my component cable run is that my Yamaha receiver only has two component inputs and I have 4 devices that I would potentially watch on the PJ. I am planning on upgrading my AV receiver to one with both component and HDMI so this will be a non-issue was I do so. I may just have to live with manually connecting the source when I am going to watch until then. I will probably get it around Christmas, maybe black Friday if I find a deal.

Which brings me to another question... What AV receiver do you guys recommend. I currently own a Yahama RX-V1500 and have been very happy with it. I am looking for the following in a new receiver:

7.1 Surround
Min 3 HDMI 1.3 Inputs
Min 4 Component Inputs
Codecs for the new DTS signals that HD-DVD and BluRay support
Min 100W per Channel

That 4th component input is what is making the receiver difficult to find. There is no yamaha, denon or onkyo that have 4 component inputs below the denon 5805 (which lists at over 7K)

Now, there is the Sony 5300ES (look at sonystyle.com for pricing) which appears to have 4 component input as well as 6, count em', 6 hdmi inputs. However, if it were me, I would figure out a way to just use 3 comp. and 3 hdmi inputs so that I could get an Onkyo, Denon or Yamaha at a cheaper price than the 5300ES. YMMV

denon 5805
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post #23 of 38 Old 11-14-2007, 10:44 PM
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Now, there is the Sony 5300ES

Sony ES eyuck ,the poor guy has enough problems.
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post #24 of 38 Old 11-15-2007, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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That 4th component input is what is making the receiver difficult to find. There is no yamaha, denon or onkyo that have 4 component inputs below the denon 5805 (which lists at over 7K)

Well, now that you guys have informed me that my components will not pass anything higher than 480P to component, the only option left is to either fix the shorted HDMI cable or run another one. I will be operating on the HDMI cable tonight, so hopefully I will be able to report back a success on the surgery. If not, time to pull. I will up date you guys tonight or tomorrow on my success or lack there of.

With that said, what AV receiver do you guys recommend considering I will no longer need the 4th component input? I definitely want the AVR to be able to decode Dobly HD and HD-DTS. I can probably get "WAF" budget of about $1K. With that said, if I can pay less for a decent unit, then that is preferred.

As I said, I like Yamaha but I am not opposed to other brands, let's say Denon or Onkyo, if I can get a better unit for the money.

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post #25 of 38 Old 11-15-2007, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouscuban View Post

Well, now that you guys have informed me that my components will not pass anything higher than 480P to component, the only option left is to either fix the shorted HDMI cable or run another one. I will be operating on the HDMI cable tonight, so hopefully I will be able to report back a success on the surgery. If not, time to pull. I will up date you guys tonight or tomorrow on my success or lack there of.

With that said, what AV receiver do you guys recommend considering I will no longer need the 4th component input? I definitely want the AVR to be able to decode Dobly HD and HD-DTS. I can probably get "WAF" budget of about $1K. With that said, if I can pay less for a decent unit, then that is preferred.

As I said, I like Yamaha but I am not opposed to other brands, let's say Denon or Onkyo, if I can get a better unit for the money.

Get the Onkyo 875 with the HQV from AVS, worth the price! Great upscaling, 1.3 HDMI and decodes the fun stuff. Has 4 hdmi inputs and 140/ch I believe.
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post #26 of 38 Old 11-15-2007, 03:55 PM
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It is just drywall after all.... Pro installers, electricians, plumbers and us crazy DIY'ers open up drywall all the time. It is really easy to cut and really easy to patch. Just saying.

Joe
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post #27 of 38 Old 11-15-2007, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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It is just drywall after all.... Pro installers, electricians, plumbers and us crazy DIY'ers open up drywall all the time. It is really easy to cut and really easy to patch. Just saying.

I know first hand how easy it is to rip down drywall/plaster and reinstall. I have remodeled every room in my 40 year, 3000 sqft house over the last 4 years, with little to no help from anyone buy my 106 lb wife. Which is the very reason I want to avoid opening up the walls, yet again. Beside the fact that my wife won't be too happy to see me doing it again.

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post #28 of 38 Old 11-15-2007, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Great news my ninjas!!! So when I got home tonight, I pulled out my ladder, grabbed a razor blade and made a small slice in the outer cable jacket just to see what I was getting myself into. I carefully clipped away some of the tinsel inside and quickly exposed two of the small wires inside. No visible damage to the jackets to those two wires. So I went to get a few tools and decided to turn my PJ and HD-DVD player on so that I can see if and when the HDMI signal hits the PJ once I find and splice the damage wire(s). So I go in the garage to grab my tools and when I came back in, Transformers is playing on my PJ in all it's HD glory!!! So I must have tweaked the cable while messing with it enough to "fix" the short in it. I wrapped the slice I made in the cable with some electrical tape with no drop in the HDMI signal.

In short, my issue is resolved... at least until I have my crown back up and all caulked and painted; my wife said it will be my luck that everything will be fine until I think I am all finished and then BAM... the thing is screwed up again.

I sure hope not. As always, thanks for all your help. Now to start conditioning the wife to the idea of getting the Onkyo 805!!!

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post #29 of 38 Old 11-16-2007, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louthewiz View Post

Sony ES eyuck ,the poor guy has enough problems.

So you've used that receiver, then? If not, go away.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

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post #30 of 38 Old 11-16-2007, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouscuban View Post


Which brings me to another question... What AV receiver do you guys recommend. I currently own a Yahama RX-V1500 and have been very happy with it. I am looking for the following in a new receiver:

7.1 Surround
Min 3 HDMI 1.3 Inputs
Min 4 Component Inputs
Codecs for the new DTS signals that HD-DVD and BluRay support
Min 100W per Channel

So stay Yamaha, an RX-V1800 or step up to the RX-V3800. The 3800 has 4 in 1 out HDMI but 3 to 1 on component. Not sure if you can find a current state of the art model with 4 component... except the Z11. If you have the budget, that is the receiver to have. I heard it, it incredible!
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