High end 720p versus low end 1080p projectors - what's better? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 02:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
emo17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
For example, 720p projectors by the likes of Runco and SIM2 are available for less than 3k or 5k, and those companies are supposedly the "best in the business."

On the other end of the spectrum, there are 1080p projectors available by the likes of Sony, Panasonic, Optoma, and a million other companies for the same price.

I'm just woondering what gives a better picture - The best 720p projectors, or the medium-priced (2-4k) 1080p projectors by the likes of Optoma, Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, and so on.

an example - would you rather buy a Runco or Sim2 720p projector for 2-5k, or would you rather get a Sony VPL-VW60 or a Panasonic PT-AE2000 for about the same price?
emo17 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 05:47 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
No generalizations can be drawn.

Each projector has to be evaluated on it's own merrits and PQ.

You will get opinions both ways. I went for a Panny 1080p and I am happy with it.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #3 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 06:51 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
HC4900 for under $1500 with rebate makes this call easy if you aren't rich!
OBSSSD is offline  
post #4 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 07:20 AM
Member
 
davegrey99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
unless you sit less than 1.2 screen widths away,
I would generally say a quality 720p projector is better than a lesser brand 1080p.
davegrey99 is offline  
post #5 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 07:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Steve Dodds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: San Francisco, now Australia
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I agree. Unless your screen is big enough or you sit close enough you'd be better off with a good 720P.
Steve Dodds is offline  
post #6 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 07:45 AM
Member
 
goud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by emo17 View Post

For example, 720p projectors by the likes of Runco and SIM2 are available for less than 3k or 5k, and those companies are supposedly the "best in the business."

On the other end of the spectrum, there are 1080p projectors available by the likes of Sony, Panasonic, Optoma, and a million other companies for the same price.

I'm just woondering what gives a better picture - The best 720p projectors, or the medium-priced (2-4k) 1080p projectors by the likes of Optoma, Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, and so on.

an example - would you rather buy a Runco or Sim2 720p projector for 2-5k, or would you rather get a Sony VPL-VW60 or a Panasonic PT-AE2000 for about the same price?


as a new Ae2000 owner all I can tell you is it rocks and I couldn't be happier. Bright enough for ambient light, great picture, black levels, multiple inputs, etc etc etc
goud is offline  
post #7 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 07:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gwlaw99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"For example, 720p projectors by the likes of Runco and SIM2 "

Runco is not in the league of SIM2. Way overpriced for what you get. Not bad, just way overpriced.

"The best 720p projectors, or the medium-priced (2-4k) 1080p projectors by the likes of Optoma, Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, and so on."

When you get to 4k, you are getting into the range of the Sony VW-60 and JVC RS1. At that point I would go with those.
gwlaw99 is offline  
post #8 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 07:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Land of Cardinals
Posts: 5,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Spending $4k... find yourself a newly designed 1080p or even the cheapo Mits.
I own 720p but wouldn't spend anything over $1k for a 720p no matter how good it is.

It is all about quality...that is the picture
JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen
CaspianM is offline  
post #9 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 07:54 AM
Member
 
myerss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chicago 'burbs
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
[quote=JOHNnDENVER;12552884]No generalizations can be drawn.

Each projector has to be evaluated on it's own merrits and PQ.

QUOTE]

I would have to agree with this. Depending on your setup and personnal preferences there is usually a projector that fits the bill and is right for you. I've seen wealthy people choose a high quality 3 chip 720 over the highly rated JVC 1080. It all depends on what works for you. Personally I chose the Sharp 12000 MK2 when the price dropped into the gutter. I was looking at 720 projectors anyhow, but the quality of the Sharp sold me on it.

The extra benefit that the rich crowd get is that vendors will bring the high end projectors out to demo in your home and you get to really see the differences. Those of us with limits on our resources have to do research and most of the time make a blind decision based upon opinions of others on this forum. Luckliy there is an AVS Forum to help us make that final decision.
myerss is offline  
post #10 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 10:02 AM
Member
 
blaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK...What if the only source is upscaled to 720p SD DVDs? Which projector native resolution would you chose?
blaser is offline  
post #11 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 10:04 AM
Member
 
avr435user's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspianM View Post

Spending $4k... find yourself a newly designed 1080p or even the cheapo Mits.
I own 720p but wouldn't spend anything over $1k for a 720p no matter how good it is.

absolutely agree. It is amazing people want to spend that kind of money on a 3 year old technology. Their decision is based of 3 year old reviews and 3 year old MSRPs. They are reading too much of avsforum as well. Use common sense besides "scientific" forums :-)
avr435user is offline  
post #12 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 10:09 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Source resolution and screen resolution has very little to do with each other. So I don't think I understand this question:

"OK...What if the only source is upscaled to 720p SD DVDs? Which projector native resolution would you chose?"
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #13 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 10:24 AM
Member
 
blaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The question is very direct, I mean what if the input source is only upconverted to 720p SD DVD. Is a 720p projector going to have a better image than a 1080 p projector? Or would there be practically no difference.

So what don't you understand?
blaser is offline  
post #14 of 108 Old 12-21-2007, 11:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gwlaw99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The only difference would be the amount of "screen door effect" if you sat closer than 1.2-1.5 screen widths away.
gwlaw99 is offline  
post #15 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 02:59 AM
Member
 
jem454's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If yor going to watch sd dvd theres not much sense to go 720 or 1080.
jem454 is offline  
post #16 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 03:42 AM
Member
 
TheNew007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I actually had the same question a while back and asked Art Feierman from projectorreview.com. His response was:

The Marantz[v12s4] definitely has better build quality, and is probably a bit brighter in best mode, but the Marantz did not have exceptional black levels, at least not by today's standards. Of course it is lower resolution than the 1080p projectors. Personally, I'd definitely pick a new Panasonic - or maybe the forthcoming Epson 1080UB, over a refurb Marantz. Remember, the 12S4 was one of the very first Darkchip 3 projectors. I'd also expect the Optoma HD81 (which is more money) to also be a competitor. Lastly BenQ's W10000, someone emailed me, is now available under $3K, or at least I seem to remember someone telling me that - unverified.


Also worth considering, in terms of the Marantz - would it come with a new lamp, or are you going to find out, perhaps that the lamp has half its hours gone (some company's will set standards for refurbs, of no more than 500 hours on a lamp, others don't pay attention. I certainly don't remember, but I'd just about lay down a bet, that while the Panasonic's replacement lamp, like most "mass" products is around $400 retail. I suspect that Marantz will get $500 - $700.


Anyway, that's my two cents. Happy Holidays! -art
TheNew007 is offline  
post #17 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 05:44 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaser View Post

The question is very direct, I mean what if the input source is only upconverted to 720p SD DVD. Is a 720p projector going to have a better image than a 1080 p projector? Or would there be practically no difference.

So what don't you understand?

Since my position was that source resolution and screen resolution don't have very much to do with each other, I guess I already answered the question.

SD-DVD's look darn impressive on HD displays, the better the display the better they will look. Be it a 720p or a 1080p display. I have not seen any 480p displays match the better models of 720p or 1080p displays even when playing an SD-DVD.

To HDTV is to scale, a 720p source is going to look best in the projector that looks best, 720p or 1080p on the screen resolution is not really going to be the difference.

With video like most things in life, human preferences come into play more than any of the specs. No generalizations can be drawn.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #18 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 06:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
union1411's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i just don't understand the 1080p craze. i just can't tell a difference between the two resolutions, or even if i was able to, it would not be a $1000-$15000 difference.

here, two screenshots from Projector Reviews. which is 1080p and which is 720p? would you pay $1,500 more for the difference, if any, that you see?




union1411 is offline  
post #19 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 08:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rickster904's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What is the source resolution?
What is the actual resolution of the pictures you posted?
What are we comparing, exactly?
rickster904 is offline  
post #20 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 08:27 AM
Member
 
brbrbr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickster904 View Post

What is the actual resolution of the pictures you posted?

Thats the right question. And the answer is 1000x424, so its kinda funny to make a comparison between 1080p and 720p based on that material.
brbrbr1 is offline  
post #21 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 04:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tim Glover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Monroe, LA
Posts: 1,435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 13
from that pic the blacks are better on the top one but also has the whites kind of blown out too...
Tim Glover is offline  
post #22 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 07:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 181
First is 1080p.....look the top of the space station and compare the shadow detail and contrast with the second picture.

Bye

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

My Multimedia Room Gallery

enricoclaudio is offline  
post #23 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 07:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Land of Cardinals
Posts: 5,845
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 15
These two shots are not identical but very similar.
Shadow deatil is not a function of resolution.
Screenshots can also be misleading.

It is all about quality...that is the picture
JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen
CaspianM is offline  
post #24 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 07:40 PM
Member
 
Rich Kraus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Trinity FL.
Posts: 21
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ok, how about a more dirrect question:

panny AX200u (720p) or sanyo Z5 (720p) at 1300 bucks
vs.
mits 4900 (1080p) currently at 1400 bucks after rebate.

for use in a dedicated room with complete light control.

ive been leaning ax200u, but just found out about the 4900.....

'Till next time
Rich
(the kite guy)

My HT Page!

Use your ashtray please, dont throw um on the street. thanks :)
Rich Kraus is offline  
post #25 of 108 Old 12-22-2007, 07:42 PM
Member
 
jterrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'd rather have a sim2 720p myself, but this is all subjective.

The projector has to fit your room and sources.
Very few can build around a projector.

sp-7210, 110" DIY BO screen, 60 GB PS3, Dish HD Receiver, yamaha 6060-htr, htpc, polk r50's, polk csr, polk r150x4, cerwin vega 12" sub. I try and do my part for the economy.
jterrell is offline  
post #26 of 108 Old 12-23-2007, 01:20 AM
Member
 
Nibrok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bothell, Washington
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Where can you find the Sim2?

Thanks!
Nibrok is offline  
post #27 of 108 Old 12-23-2007, 06:48 PM
Senior Member
 
mijoeldotor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just came from a friend's house and did a comparison between my SP7210 720p and his Panasonic Ae2000 1080p. I can tell the better resolution is noticeable, specially in screen door effect, 3D effect and the letters. So overall picture is better, but I would not spend $1.7k more for it. That´s my personal point of view.
mijoeldotor is offline  
post #28 of 108 Old 12-23-2007, 07:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Steve Dodds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: San Francisco, now Australia
Posts: 2,886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Kraus View Post

ok, how about a more dirrect question:

panny AX200u (720p) or sanyo Z5 (720p) at 1300 bucks
vs.
mits 4900 (1080p) currently at 1400 bucks after rebate.

for use in a dedicated room with complete light control.

ive been leaning ax200u, but just found out about the 4900.....

I wouldn't get any of them. They all have much weaker black levels and contrast than the better 720P projectors like a Sharp XV-12000 or Marantz VP4001 which are now available for the same price
Steve Dodds is offline  
post #29 of 108 Old 12-23-2007, 11:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tradewinds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by union1411 View Post

i just don't understand the 1080p craze. i just can't tell a difference between the two resolutions, or even if i was able to, it would not be a $1000-$15000 difference.

here, two screenshots from Projector Reviews. which is 1080p and which is 720p? would you pay $1,500 more for the difference, if any, that you see?

Good point. I wouldn't even pay $300 more. It is mostly hype. Sure, the resolution is there on paper and on certain viewing distances, but the bottom line is that resolution is NOT everything. Take a quality 720p over 1080p any day and you will have no regrets. If the 1080p had the same quality components as the 720p, then yes, I'll pay the $300 or more for the extra resolution because of my viewing distance.

===================================
My Riser | My LED Star Ceiling | My HTPC Build
tradewinds is offline  
post #30 of 108 Old 12-24-2007, 09:05 AM
Member
 
prime21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HC1500 for the win.

The only thing i REALLY know about PJ's is that my wife hates the fact that she was wrong about them.
prime21 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off