APC does not recommend to connect AV equipment to back -ups...read - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I sent a question to APC about some problems I was having with my projector...this is what they wrote:

Thank you for contacting APC's email support on 02/11/2008 10:45 PM. I would be happy to assist you.

I understand your concern. As per inquiry, APC does not recommend to connect Audio-Video Equipment to a Back-UPS. For such equipment APC provides a different range of Products called as Audio-Video Solutions. The reason being that Back-UPS is designed specifically for IT equipments, and the Power generated by Back-UPS can in turn harm the sensitive equipments like projector. More over if an Audio-Video equipment gets damaged while being connected to a Back-UPS, then APC will not be liable for the damages caused.
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post #2 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 10:24 AM
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sound like APC Back-UPS for computers is junk according to APC that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkman1 View Post

I sent a question to APC about some problems I was having with my projector...this is what they wrote:

Thank you for contacting APC's email support on 02/11/2008 10:45 PM. I would be happy to assist you.

I understand your concern. As per inquiry, APC does not recommend to connect Audio-Video Equipment to a Back-UPS. For such equipment APC provides a different range of Products called as Audio-Video Solutions. The reason being that Back-UPS is designed specifically for IT equipments, and the Power generated by Back-UPS can in turn harm the sensitive equipments like projector. More over if an Audio-Video equipment gets damaged while being connected to a Back-UPS, then APC will not be liable for the damages caused.

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post #3 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 12:22 PM
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It sounds like bull-$hit to me...

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post #4 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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What would you guys recommend as an inexpensive back up to save the bulb in case of an outage. I've had a APC BR650R backing up my projector w/o any problems, then last week I start having issues with it. When I turn on the projector, the green light comes on, but no lamp, then a minute later, the red light comes back on. Once, I got the 3 flashing lights that maeant the bulb has expired.Mu bulb has 300 hours on it. When I plug directly into another standard outlet w/o the back up., it is fine....What do you think??
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post #5 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkman1 View Post

I...The reason being that Back-UPS is designed specifically for IT equipments,...

The unit you are using, BE650R actually only outputs 390watts. You need a UPS that outputs 2 to 3 times the total wattage from your PJ.

The email you received from APC support sounds like CYA.

I had an APC RS1000 I was using for my PJ and it developed a bad cell. I chatted with APC and told them what was going on and how I was using the UPS. They told me it was a bad UPS and replaced it with an RS1200. I have not had any trouble from the new unit. They did not tell me not to use it on a video projector.

You definitely want to avoide any UPS that uses a standard square wave, but those that use a modified square wave also described as "stepped approximation to a sine wave" should be ok.
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post #6 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reconlabtech View Post

The unit you are using, BE650R actually only outputs 390watts. You need a UPS that outputs 2 to 3 times the total wattage from your PJ.

The email you received from APC support sounds like CYA.

I had an APC RS1000 I was using for my PJ and it developed a bad cell. I chatted with APC and told them what was going on and how I was using the UPS. They told me it was a bad UPS and replaced it with an RS1200. I have not had any trouble from the new unit. They did not tell me not to use it on a video projector.

You definitely want to avoide any UPS that uses a standard square wave, but those that use a modified square wave also described as "stepped approximation to a sine wave" should be ok.


Modified square wave still provides a horrible amount of harmonic content to your equipment. Slightly different, but similar harmonic content.

My Home Theater Site:


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post #7 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I have an APC XS900 on my computer that I could swap it with the other one...I don't understand about the square waves etc...but do you think the XS900 would be ok for the projector??

Thanks!
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post #8 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 01:56 PM
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Audiophiles and high-end audio equipment owners will benefit from true sinewave products. Here are some further notes on the subject:

In general, any device that senses either voltage peaks or zero crossings could have problems when running from MSW. Devices such as these should be run from TSW inverters. Ham radio and CB radio operators may notice RF noise from MSW inverters; in that case do not run the radio and the inverter at the same time. Electronics that modulate RF (radio frequency) signals on the AC line will not work and may be damaged. You may notice hum or buzz in the audio of TV’s, radios and satellite systems used with MSW inverters. Audiophiles or professionals using sophisticated audio, remote measurement, surveillance or telemetry equipment should use TSW.

Examples of problem devices are motor speed controllers employing triacs, and some small battery rechargers that do not incorporate a transformer between the utility power and the load. To help you visualize this, if there isn’t a ‘wall wart’ between the battery charger (or the battery in the device) and the AC plug, don’t use MSW.

Please note two other common problem loads, electric shavers and emergency flashlights. Both of these items have batteries in them but connect directly into the wall to charge, without an external transformer. Don’t use items like these with an MSW inverter. If you do use an MSW inverter with a transformer-less charger, your product will likely be damaged. Garage door openers, laser printers and large strobes used in photography have all been reported as trouble loads for MSW inverters; they either don’t work at all or stop working entirely, so don’t take a chance – use TSW.

As a general rule, products operating through an AC adapter will work fine from an MSW inverter. These include laptops and cell phone chargers, video games, camcorder and digital camera chargers. Televisions generally work well; some VCR’s with inexpensive power supplies run poorly.
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post #9 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkman1 View Post

I have an APC XS900 on my computer that I could swap it with the other one...I don't understand about the square waves etc...but do you think the XS900 would be ok for the projector??

Thanks!

The XS900 puts out 540 watts so if your PJ uses a total of 275 watts, you are just short of 2X PJ power consumption. You could try it just to see if the 650 was simply no longer able to keep up with your PJ.
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post #10 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 02:27 PM
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Quote:


Modified square wave still provides a horrible amount of harmonic content to your equipment. Slightly different, but similar harmonic content.

That's good info... but.. what do you recommend then?

The Truth IS out there!
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post #11 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-bo View Post

That's good info... but.. what do you recommend then?

Here's a true sinewave ups from APC:

http://www.apcc.com/resource/include...ase_sku=S10BLK
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post #12 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 03:05 PM
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This one is more reasonable on price but not as many watts either:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...productID=3071

Edit: Upon further review, it appears to not be TSW. Explains the price break.
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post #13 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 03:07 PM
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I run my HC1500 off a Tripp-lite Smart 1000LCD. It works fine for me.
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post #14 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-bo View Post

That's good info... but.. what do you recommend then?


Unless you have a large number of power outages... I would not use anything. Chances are, the UPS will never have to be used and all you are doing is replacing it every three to five years anyway.

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post #15 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there an affordable APC product that I could use for my projector or should I get one of those Tripplites, or nothing.......My projector is the only unit that will be plugged into the outlet?? Thanks again for all the advice.
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post #16 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 04:05 PM
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There are plenty that will tell you do nothing but bad residential power has taught me to protect things in order to get more life from them. I think your current ups is probably just underpowered. Get one that is 2 to 3 times the watts, not volt-amps. You will be fine. Our power goes out 2 to 3 times a year, right in the middle of the evening typically because everyone is coming home and turning on all their power hungry devices and then a transformer blows somewhere.
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post #17 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm guessing this one would do..APC1500

I have some Best Buy gift cards that are burning a hole in my pocket.

Product Features
8 outlets (6 battery backup plus surge, 2 surge only) with phone, fax, modem, DSL and coax protection
1500VA (865W) capacity with up to 154-minute battery back-up time for safe shutdown when the power is lost
Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) technology corrects undervoltage
LCD with more than 20 status indicators
564-joule rating
PowerChute shutdown software included
APC $150,000 lifetime equipment protection policy
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post #18 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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What was funny today.....The online tech guy at APC said that my 650R would be fine....The offline tech said that they don't recommend using APC's for av equipment and if the unit was damaged, it would not be covered under their warranty....talk about getting two different answers..Yikes!
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post #19 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Please check out the Tripplite Home Theatre 1500 AV UPS...I'd rather use this than a bulky APC since I'm only using it for my projector...Would this work with a power consumption of 275W..I couldn't find it in the specs.

Maximum Input Amps: 12A / 1440 watts


Input Connection Type: NEMA 5-15P


Cord Length: 6' 16 guage


Recommended Electrical Service: 15A 120V


Volt Amps: 750 VA


Output Nominal Voltage: 120 V


Output Frequency Regulation: Line Mode: Passes line frequency of 60Hz +/-10%


Output Voltage Regulation: LINE MODE: Passes sine wave line voltage from 98-141V to connected equipment unchanged


Full Load Run Time: 3-6 years


Dimensions: 4 x 12 x 7


Weight: 15.3


Outlets: 8
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post #20 of 34 Old 02-12-2008, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahhhh...It's only 450 watts
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post #21 of 34 Old 02-13-2008, 08:26 AM
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When the power goes down you most likely will turn the pj off in less then 1 minute, and the fun that cools the bulb takes only what 20 watts?
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post #22 of 34 Old 02-13-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubmar View Post

When the power goes down you most likely will turn the pj off in less then 1 minute, and the fun that cools the bulb takes only what 20 watts?


Power-down is not the problem, power-up is. A PJ pulls more wattage starting up than when running or shutting down. Typically, you are supposed to use a UPS that equals twice the wattage you are averaging for the total of your equipment. If you put a UPS on your system that only equals the same wattage, you will most likely not only not get one minute of time to shutdown but the UPS will not even try to cutover but shutoff instead. I have enough wattage to keep watching even if the power stays off for awhile. My dvr is setup with another UPS that will run it for up to 2 hours if the power fails. I'm not going to miss something just because the power failed at the least opportune time.
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post #23 of 34 Old 02-13-2008, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Reconlabtech...I know you said about getting 2X -3X the power....I mentioned a Tripplite ( see above post) it only has 450W but I believe it is made for Home Theater and has the sine wave you mentioned..Is this still not worth getting? Should I try my APC ES 900 which is good for 540 and see what happens...What do you think? Thanks!
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post #24 of 34 Old 02-13-2008, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, Why would my other APC which only was good for 390W work for 7 months then I started having problems...Wouldn't the APC have constant current going to the projector at all times??
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post #25 of 34 Old 02-13-2008, 09:03 AM
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This is a good discussion that pops up about every six months around here. Most often you end up with the "get a better unit that's not square wave" being the general consensus.

I do recall one time a poster including an email he received from Optoma Tech Support indicating that it didn't matter what type of UPS you used because it is basically a PC-type power supply in the projector that converts the power to DC for internal use...

Who knows what to believe?? Cheers!
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post #26 of 34 Old 02-13-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottahavapj View Post

I do recall one time a poster including an email he received from Optoma Tech Support indicating that it didn't matter what type of UPS you used because it is basically a PC-type power supply in the projector that converts the power to DC for internal use...

All power supplies used in home A/V convert the power to DC for internal use so that's not the issue. The question is how the conversion is done and how immune from external purturbations the internal DC is. Optoma and others may use switching supplies which are more immune than traditional linear power supplies. The fact remains that there is no disadvantage to better sine-wave AC except the cost.

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"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

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post #27 of 34 Old 02-14-2008, 08:16 AM
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Quote:


purturbations

Had to look that one up.

Hmm.. 1200LCD $160 or APC for $800... easy choice.

Too bad BB only carries the 1000LCD at above list price.. bastages..be perfect for gift card usage. Dang it.

The Truth IS out there!
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post #28 of 34 Old 02-14-2008, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkman1 View Post

Also, Why would my other APC which only was good for 390W work for 7 months then I started having problems...Wouldn't the APC have constant current going to the projector at all times??

When the UPS is new, the battery cells are fresh and hold a complete charge. After use for awhile they don't hold as good a charge and therfore start to have performance limits. Another reason to get one that is 2 to 3 times the total watts of your PJ.
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post #29 of 34 Old 02-14-2008, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you think I should try my APC ES900 for a while..or go for the extra wattage.....
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-14-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkman1 View Post

Do you think I should try my APC ES900 for a while..or go for the extra wattage.....

Have you tried the ES900 yet?
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