Mitsubishi 1500 Black Levels? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 52 Old 02-17-2008, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got the Mitsubishi 1500 as my first projector and whoah i am blown away by the experience. But i am wondering did i make a mistake by getting it instead of the optoma 65? I like the mit, but the black levels are somewhat poor. The optoma 65 has a better contrast ratio so will that help the black level? Just wondering if any owners of either one especially optoma can help me

Electronics: DLP Projector on 7' wall, Xbox360, PS3
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post #2 of 52 Old 02-17-2008, 09:31 AM
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Try ging into the FEATURE menu and changing SETUP from auto to 7.5. This will increase black level, but you'll need to recalibrate your brightness, contrast and gamma. With SETUP at 7.5 my settings are:

brightness +17
contrast +4
gamma usermode2: high +5, mid +5, low +5

My theater has a black ceiling and burgundy walls and I calibrated with the Blu ray calibrator on the Rattaoullie BD and AVIA and I have excellent black levels at these setitngs. Your settings will be different based on your ceiling walls and lighting.

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post #3 of 52 Old 03-17-2008, 12:08 PM
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I just got my 1500 hung up. Wow I am lost on getting this thing optimized. I see where there was a thread on the value of having in professionally tuned. Not sure where I would find someone.
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post #4 of 52 Old 03-17-2008, 04:34 PM
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No offense to Legairre, and I don't have the 1500, but raising the IRE to 7.5 will most likely make the black level WORSE (as in brighter).

Also, chances are increasing the gamma level will also do the same.

To test the true "black leve" of your projector, turn the brightness ALL THE WAY DOWN on a black screen and see how much light is still on the screen. Is it a bright, dull grey? If so, the only thing you can do is use an ND filter in front of the lens. This will dim the entire image, but black level performance will significantly increase. Then you can increase the gamma to bring back shadow detail.

I did this on my Infocus 5700 and was very happy with the results (especially since it's a very bright projector to begin with).

When you first do this, you will be inclined to think your image is too dark... but live with it for a few days and get used to it first; if you're watching in a totally dark room, chances are you will be satisfied with the amount of light you're still getting and MUCH more satisfied with the picture quality!
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post #5 of 52 Old 03-17-2008, 06:01 PM
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I have the HC1500 and changing "setup" to 7.5 will just crush the blacks. FWIW, I use mine on a home-made N8 gray screen and calibrated it with my I1D2 colorimeter with the AVS HD cal disk (free!) and the GetGrey disk and my blacks are not bad at all.

Most people settle on "Brilliant Color" - off, "Gamma Mode" - cinema, "Color Temp" - warm, "Sharpness" - (-2) and then get a disk and set your black level with the "Brightness" control and your white level with the "Contrast" control.

(Labeling black level as "Brightness" just causes endless confusion and i really wish it would stop)

Anyway, that'll get you in the ballpark and like I said, use a gray screen, the HC1500 has plenty of output to light it up.
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post #6 of 52 Old 03-17-2008, 06:03 PM
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I have the HC1500 and changing "setup" to 7.5 will just crush the blacks. FWIW, I use mine on a home-made N8 gray screen and calibrated it with my I1D2 colorimeter with the AVS HD cal disk (free!) and the GetGrey disk and my blacks are not bad at all.

Most people settle on "Brilliant Color" - off, "Gamma Mode" - cinema, "Color Temp" - warm, "Sharpness" - (-2) and then get a disk and set your black level with the "Brightness" control and your white level with the "Contrast" control.

(Labeling black level as "Brightness" just causes endless confusion and I really wish it would stop. )

Anyway, that'll get you in the ballpark and like I said, use a gray screen, the HC1500 has plenty of output to light it up.

Damn!!! Double post and it didn't even increase my post count!
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post #7 of 52 Old 03-17-2008, 07:09 PM
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Pliny has a good point, grey screens also help a lot with blacks.

Still, you might want to try the ND filter first, it's a lot cheaper and easier than a new screen!
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post #8 of 52 Old 03-17-2008, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo_LA View Post

No offense to Legairre, and I don't have the 1500, but raising the IRE to 7.5 will most likely make the black level WORSE (as in brighter).

Also, chances are increasing the gamma level will also do the same.

To test the true "black leve" of your projector, turn the brightness ALL THE WAY DOWN on a black screen and see how much light is still on the screen. Is it a bright, dull grey? If so, the only thing you can do is use an ND filter in front of the lens. This will dim the entire image, but black level performance will significantly increase. Then you can increase the gamma to bring back shadow detail.

I did this on my Infocus 5700 and was very happy with the results (especially since it's a very bright projector to begin with).

When you first do this, you will be inclined to think your image is too dark... but live with it for a few days and get used to it first; if you're watching in a totally dark room, chances are you will be satisfied with the amount of light you're still getting and MUCH more satisfied with the picture quality!

Mojo_LA,
No offense taken. These are healthy discussions and I don't pretend to be the most knowledgable person so I appreciate youre response and help.

I notice when I change to 7.5 the screen get a lot darker and the blacks are crushed. but then if I increase the gamma the shadow detail returns and the picture no longer has black crush but has really good shadow detail.

I then calibrate with the BD calibrator on Ratatoullie and the SD version of AVIA. I have a grey screen and the picture looks incredible with deep blacks and good shadow detail compared to the "auto setting for IRE which leaves me with a bright and washed out picture.

Here's a pick. Granted my camera and photoghaphy stink you can still see the blacks are pretty good.Attachment 104975
LL

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post #9 of 52 Old 03-17-2008, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innocent Gimp View Post

Just got the Mitsubishi 1500 as my first projector and whoah i am blown away by the experience. But i am wondering did i make a mistake by getting it instead of the optoma 65? I like the mit, but the black levels are somewhat poor. The optoma 65 has a better contrast ratio so will that help the black level? Just wondering if any owners of either one especially optoma can help me

Just a comment on the CR ratings (you've already received some good advice on black levels) -- Generally speaking, CR ratings are not a good indicator of much. Some companies inflate their numbers, some are very conservative. It's like wattage on a receiver...companies work around the numbers to make their product look better. Point is, 2 projectors both using DarkChip2 will have pretty much the same CR unless an iris or some form of AI is engaged. Optoma uses AI.
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post #10 of 52 Old 03-18-2008, 02:59 AM
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Hey guys I have a question about the ND filter that is being discussed. I also have an HC1500 and I'm wondering where I can find a filter. I found some for cameras, will these work? Does it take a special one for the HC1500? Do you have to buy specific filters for each different projector?? Any help pointing me in the right direction would be appreciated. Thanks
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post #11 of 52 Old 03-18-2008, 05:09 AM
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Without trying to high-hack this thread but I would also like to know where I could find a ND filter for my HC1500 as well; any suggestions?
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post #12 of 52 Old 03-18-2008, 05:47 AM
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FWIW, black level is associated with your device inputs. If your DVD player can pass "blacker than black" then set the IRE to 0. The standard is 7.5 IRE. My understanding is an IRE of 7.5 with a standard setting on a DVD player will give you the exact same black as an IRE of 0 with a "blacker than black" setting. In other words, it just aligns the input signal and output response.

Since cable/dish boxes don't offer that setting, setting the IRE to 0 on your projector can throw off the black levels for "TV".

I am talking in general, not specific to the Mits.
Fwiw.
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post #13 of 52 Old 03-18-2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1GUNRUNNER View Post

I just got my 1500 hung up. Wow I am lost on getting this thing optimized. I see where there was a thread on the value of having in professionally tuned. Not sure where I would find someone.


Assuming the price is fair... ill take a cheaper projector calibrated over a higher end unit that isnt.

Calibration can help more than you think. Its more about accurate color reproduction but keep in mind you need to have a controlled enviroment when using a projector.

Mine is really just setup for night time viewing since my entire house is full of windows. I have no light control durring the day.

They also have self calibration kits if you find getting it done is too expencive.

Got iSCSI?
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post #14 of 52 Old 03-18-2008, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthlude View Post

Assuming the price is fair... ill take a cheaper projector calibrated over a higher end unit that isnt.

Calibration can help more than you think. Its more about accurate color reproduction but keep in mind you need to have a controlled enviroment when using a projector.

Mine is really just setup for night time viewing since my entire house is full of windows. I have no light control durring the day.

They also have self calibration kits if you find getting it done is too expencive.

When it comes to calibration I look at it like this -- when my friend comes over and sees my $800 projector with blackout cloth screen and says "wow, this looks way better than mine" and he has a $3K 50" LCD, I'm pleased that I went the calibration route.

Stealthlude is right on the money, a cheaper projector that's been properly calibrated will give you a much nicer image than an expensive projector that hasn't been.
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post #15 of 52 Old 07-31-2008, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdahlberg View Post

Without trying to high-hack this thread but I would also like to know where I could find a ND filter for my HC1500 as well; any suggestions?

Instead of starting a new topic, I will just repeat the same question.

Will this work?

http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/241661412msk.htm

How would it be attach to the projector? What size? thanks in advance!
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post #16 of 52 Old 08-11-2008, 04:53 PM
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Jumbo, let me know if you ended up giving this ND2 filter a shot.

I've always wanted to try one out, and for $10, I may just try it out. Is 37mm the correct size for the Mits? I have the HD1000u, but it's the same as the 1500.
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post #17 of 52 Old 08-11-2008, 05:14 PM
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Billbofet, I'm still currently researching this topic.

I was actually considering buying a grey screen but $10 is a lot better than a couple hundreds to achieve the same results.

I'm not sure if 37mm is the right spec. I know there's gotta be something that physically fits over the lens just like the lens cap does so there should be no mods involved.

Anyone has any info please let us know.
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post #18 of 52 Old 08-11-2008, 06:06 PM
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Looks like the HC1500 lens if 67mm in diameter.
A confirmation that a 67mm ND filter is needed (or a 67mm step down ring with a smaller filter), would be appreciated for those of us less knowledgeable in the field of optics.

EDIT: looks like 62mm is the size for HC1500

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...07#post9605507

Thanks folks, time to try this out!!!
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post #19 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 12:08 PM
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Hey Jumbo,
I tried to find that product code on the site and it was just next to impossible.

Is the filter discussed in your referenced thread SKU# SMC62UV?

If you could post a link, that would be great. I'd like to give this a shot.
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post #20 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 12:21 PM
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Billbofet, this is the link to that product in the referenced post:

http://thefilterconnection.com/shops...6&function=add

That is a color correction filter though but it is 62mm and since according to that post, it fits,so I'm assuming we safely purchase a 62mm ND filter:

http://www.2filter.com/prices/nd_filters.htm

such as:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00007L9U9
or (darker)
http://www.amazon.com/Hoya-HMC-NDX4-...ref=pd_sim_p_1
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post #21 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 12:58 PM
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Thanks for the quick response. I'm going to give the "lighter" one on amazon a try.

Can't wait to see the results.

Thanks again,
Bill
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post #22 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 01:00 PM
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Just ordered it up. Free shipping too!!!
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post #23 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 01:35 PM
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Billbofet, please let me know your results.

I'm ready to purchase the darker filter (4x), from a local RitzCamera so I might get mine before you get yours.
I need darker because the HC1500 literally lights up the white walls in my completely dark room
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post #24 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 01:55 PM
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While I've been nothing but unsuccessful, I will try to take some before/after shots for you. Wish me luck.
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post #25 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 04:37 PM
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can't wait!!!
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post #26 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 04:47 PM
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Yep, good luck Billbofet. Pictures will be great.
I'm really interested in your results because I want to know if ND2 will be enough for me or not.

N2 allows 50% of light
N4 allows 25% of light.
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post #27 of 52 Old 08-12-2008, 05:08 PM
 
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start a new thread when you get the results. That would be a great idea because I too am interested
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post #28 of 52 Old 08-13-2008, 07:08 AM
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Guys,

Let me know if you have any requests for before/after shots.

I have HD DVD and Blu Ray, so let me know if there are any particular scenes or shots you want to see. I'll try my best.

I also have a 360 and PS3 if anyone wants game pics.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billbofet View Post

Guys,

Let me know if you have any requests for before/after shots.

I have HD DVD and Blu Ray, so let me know if there are any particular scenes or shots you want to see. I'll try my best.

I also have a 360 and PS3 if anyone wants game pics.

whatever you can give us will be greatly appreciated. And like I said before, if you would just start a new thread about using a filter with hc 1500 so this doesn't slip through the cracks. At least with me!
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post #30 of 52 Old 08-13-2008, 12:44 PM
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Billbofet, I hate to bring the bad news but here it goes - I have measured the diameter of the lens + lip on the HC1500 and it looks to be 67mm and not 62mm like the linked post mentioned. I think I was right the first time.

- to be absolutely sure, take a ruler and measure the diameter of the inside of the lens cap on your HC1500.

I have, myself, decided to order a square filter to avoid any fitting issues:
https://www.adorama.com/CKP152.html?sid=12186619161906
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