Kworld ATSC 115 card on Myth - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 73 Old 05-06-2008, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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This thread is a fork of

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1025170

to focus on the Kworld ATSC 115 tuner card on Myth.

I installed Mythbuntu 8.04 from scratch on the same hardware posted at the top of that thread,

BioStar NF4 Ultra-A9A mobo (already had socket 939 x2 3800 cpu)
AMD X2 3800
Nvidia 7300GS PCIe 256MB
1 GB Crucial PC3200 DDR
Maxtor 120GB OS drive
Maxtor 200GB data drive for recordings
Pioneer DVD-RW
HP DVD-RW
Packard Bell Fast Media Remote with serial port receiver- works fine

downloaded the firmware script per

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/AVerTV_HD_A180

from

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/My...t_dvb_firmware

then used the commands

chmod +x get_dvb_firmware
./get_dvb_firmware nxt2004

to download the firmware. You need to install unzip from Synaptic or apt-get first in Mythbuntu 8.04.

I copied the *.fw file to /lib/firmware/$kernel_version

Then I ran MythTV Backend setup as usual, and the Kworld was detected fine for both analog and DVB (ATSC), using the stock MythBuntu 8.04 load- no v4l-dvb update necessary, it appears.

The channel scan ran fine, picking up most of my locals, except 2 of them came up with the error "no tables" (where "no signal" would be reported) even though they locked.

I set up the storage directories in a valid, user enabled path, and all the other settings.

I exited, ran mythfilldatabase, which appeared to complete fine, then ran the frontend.

Watch TV produces a blank screen then goes back to the front end menu, just like the Pinnacle 800i did. I don't think ths issue is related to the card type- some bug or config issue with MythBuntu 8.04...
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post #2 of 73 Old 05-06-2008, 08:00 PM
 
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Please post your /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log
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post #3 of 73 Old 05-07-2008, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythmaster View Post
Please post your /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log
Well, the Watch TV blank screen issue was simple- just needed to set the permissions on the recording (Default, LiveTv, etc) directories to Read/Write from Read Only- rookie mistake, or is that mythstake

Just write clicked on my /home/$user/dvr folder I had created in the Thunar GUI file manager ("Explorer" file manager in XP for Win refugees) and changed the Permissions in the Properties dialog tab.

I'll attach the mythbackend.log anyways for other's training purposes

In my defense, Myth should pop up an error message warning about the write permissions before going back to the frontend main menu for such a simple issue.

I am certain that's all that was needed to fix the Watch TV blank screen on the Pinnacle 800i card, too, just as waterhead suggested on the 800i thread.

 

mythbackendLog_08057_0712.txt 64.9921875k . file
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post #4 of 73 Old 05-07-2008, 04:52 AM
 
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Hehe. That one's bitten us all
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post #5 of 73 Old 05-07-2008, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Any hints on the "-no tables" issue re: channel scan? I suspect it has something to do with the channels.conf or the Schedules Direct chanel database, but I'm only guessing.

The picture looks great in Watch TV mode

However, the channel guide is *very* sluggish- using the arrows on the remote or keyboard has a serious lag when trying to move around the schedule grid.

Any hints to help alleviate this lag?
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post #6 of 73 Old 05-07-2008, 12:00 PM
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"No tables" usually means it was not able to get a good lock; there are several stages of locking for ATSC tuner/demods, and if you don't get them all, you get no data.
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post #7 of 73 Old 05-07-2008, 03:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

However, the channel guide is *very* sluggish- using the arrows on the remote or keyboard has a serious lag when trying to move around the schedule grid.

Any hints to help alleviate this lag?

Pretty sure it's a race condition (something to do with deinterlacing). Workaround is here --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023703
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post #8 of 73 Old 05-07-2008, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythmaster View Post

Hehe. That one's bitten us all

The stupid thing is, I created the /home/$user/dvr directory in Thunar (GUI file manager) within the $user account, so I just assumed the folder (dvr directory) would automatically have write permissions for the $user account, which Myth runs under.

I don't know if this is a Linux-ism, *buntu-ism or a bug in Thunar...

In any event, I'm buttoning up this box, which was built for a coworker, and plan to give it to him this weekend, assuming something doesn't get mucked up after doing some updates and adding the xubuntu-desktop and some other apps he needs (Oo, wine, audio and video tools, disc burning apps, etc).

It appears getting the "basics" (i.e. tuning, viewing TV, scheduling recordings like a PVR) up and running for OTA ATSC with the Kworld 115 card on Mythbuntu 8.04 is straightforward, and simpler than an XP load from scratch + video/audio drivers + tuner card drivers and recording apps on win.

For the Kworld 115, you don't need anyting more than what's been posted in this thread. Might want to avoid the Pinnacle 800i for a while, though
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post #9 of 73 Old 05-07-2008, 08:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

The stupid thing is, I created the /home/$user/dvr directory in Thunar (GUI file manager) within the $user account, so I just assumed the folder (dvr directory) would automatically have write permissions for the $user account, which Myth runs under.

I don't know if this is a Linux-ism, *buntu-ism or a bug in Thunar...

It's actually a myth-ism, as the backend requires that the recordings directory be write-accessible to the user "mythtv".
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post #10 of 73 Old 05-08-2008, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythmaster View Post

Pretty sure it's a race condition (something to do with deinterlacing). Workaround is here --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023703

I would think the simplest fix would be for Myth to disable any video processing (deinterlacing, etc) when it switches to the program guide mode, then re-enable video processing when it goes back to full screen mode...
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post #11 of 73 Old 05-08-2008, 05:13 PM
 
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Yeah, but that'll never happen as it's just a workaround. A good developer will try to track down and fix the real problem so it won't resurface.

You've got the source code, though, right?
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post #12 of 73 Old 05-09-2008, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythmaster View Post

Yeah, but that'll never happen as it's just a workaround. A good developer will try to track down and fix the real problem so it won't resurface.

That's the difference between software engineers and computer science/pure programmer types. I consider myself the former.

What point or purpose is there in doing video processing on the channel guide screen? There is no need on that screen, so doing the academic exercise of working through the race condition from a computer science programming perspective gains the user nothing.

Just my attitude from 10+ years writing and maintaining code in a production Unix client/server environment, nothing personal .
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post #13 of 73 Old 05-09-2008, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
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...and adding the xubuntu-desktop and some other apps he needs (Oo, wine, audio and video tools, disc burning apps, etc).

OK, I'll bite. What's "Oo"??? That one doesn't ring a bell for me.


BTW, thanks for the recommendation of SMPlayer. I had to wait until upgraded from fiesty to hardy to try it because fiesty didn't have new enough libraries.

But I'm really loving it now. It think it's going to replace Kaffeine as my "go-to" player.
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post #14 of 73 Old 05-09-2008, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

OK, I'll bite. What's "Oo"??? That one doesn't ring a bell for me.


BTW, thanks for the recommendation of SMPlayer. I had to wait until upgraded from fiesty to hardy to try it because fiesty didn't have new enough libraries.

But I'm really loving it now. It think it's going to replace Kaffeine as my "go-to" player.

Oo= Open Office

Yes, SMplayer is a godsend for XP converts who were used to Media Player Classic (MPC) with ffdshow.

http://smplayer.sourceforge.net/

Get the latest from the SMplayer forum, which has sticky threads with Ubuntu .deb packages for both SMplayer and mplayer- good to have since mplayer in the default repos is usually out of date-

http://smplayer.berlios.de/forums/viewforum.php?id=5
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post #15 of 73 Old 05-09-2008, 03:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

That's the difference between software engineers and computer science/pure programmer types. I consider myself the former.

What point or purpose is there in doing video processing on the channel guide screen? There is no need on that screen, so doing the academic exercise of working through the race condition from a computer science programming perspective gains the user nothing.

Just my attitude from 10+ years writing and maintaining code in a production Unix client/server environment, nothing personal .

I don't take anything personal.

To continue the argument because I enjoy butting heads with you:

(a) Removing features has a tendency to piss off users -- I'm talking about Mr. Projector Guy with 100+" video real estate who likes to watch the news while he's in the guide scheduling enough recordings to keep 4 of his tuners busy.

(b) You, of all people, must realize that nothing is trivial. Switching between deinterlaced and non-deinterlaced (lol, is that a word?) video every time you call up the epg and again when you close it would create both an unwelcome delay and places where something else could and probably would go wrong.

(c) Even though turning off deinterlacing stops the problem from occurring, it may very well have absolutely nothing to do with the *actual* problem (exactly like running the frontend with -v all stopped the problem). So we still don't know what the actual problem is and whether or not it will affect any future development. This is not good (unless you're Microsoft, of course ).

EDIT:

P.S. While we're bragging unnecessarily, I was writing code 15 years before you started your 10+ year career as a software engineer.
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post #16 of 73 Old 05-10-2008, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythmaster View Post

I don't take anything personal.

To continue the argument because I enjoy butting heads with you:


EDIT:

P.S. While we're bragging unnecessarily, I was writing code 15 years before you started your 10+ year career as a software engineer.

You're right- I hate it when people in discussion threads throw out their "experience" and "expert credentials" to justify their opinions or approaches as the "right way"- very bad forum etiquette, but my intent was to just hint where I was coming from.

I am by no means as smart as a lot of other forum members, especially lots of other Linux users on this forum and others like ubuntuforums. I actually strive to surround myself with people smarter than me- I *want* to be the dumbest guy in the room (witin reason ). I learn more and improve more that way. It can be a challenge, as people labeled "smart" are too often lacking in social skills and/or have overbearing egos to contend with.

re: a-c

Good points, and at one time in my altruistic, perfectionist past, I would have wholeheartedly agreed about chasing down the root cause and solving the computer-sciency issues at the lowest level. But age and wisdom has taught me to compromise and pick my battles.

But I do hope the guys that care (Myth developers) *do* find the root cause and fix it- my Scotty-esque bailing wire quick fixes *have* come back to bite me in those years of applied software engineering
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post #17 of 73 Old 05-10-2008, 10:06 AM
 
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You have a great attitude, rgb, and it certainly is a pleasure to make your acquaintance.
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post #18 of 73 Old 05-10-2008, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I've learned that humility pays far more dividends than hubris

Back on topic, I just want to reiterate how stupid-easy this build and Myth setup was.

The only extra step I did beyond the MythBuntu Install from it's liveCD menu was add EnvyNG from Synaptic to install the Nvidia driver, which went without issue.

Beyond the Kworld 115 firmware install and Nvidia driver install, all I did was add xbuntu-desktop in MythBuntu Control Center, and then various apps from Synaptic.

After adding Xubuntu-Desktop, Firefox was updated to automagically install Flash and Java plug ins when I hit sites that needed them.

IMO, Mythbuntu is worth the price of admission just for the Control Center applet, which allows easy install of DVD decryption and other restricted codecs from the MediBuntu repos.

I am serious when I say that the most inept, least tech saavy users could get a Myth media center PC up and running from the liveCD install, assuming you make good choices in hardware, like supported tuner cards, chipsets, video cards, etc.

As my new mission in life for the near term is to be Linus Linux-seed (nee Johnny Appleseed ), either building Linux boxen from scratch for others and/or wiping a Win load from others's PC's and replacing with Linux on OEM boxes, the stupid-simple ease of the late model distros is a joy to behold.
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post #19 of 73 Old 05-10-2008, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

But I do hope the guys that care (Myth developers) *do* find the root cause and fix it- my Scotty-esque bailing wire quick fixes *have* come back to bite me in those years of applied software engineering

IME, they almost ALWAYS do. Either the root cause gets you somewhere else, or the baling wire itself does, even if you eventually did fix the root cause.
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post #20 of 73 Old 05-10-2008, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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To further elaborate on this build, when I set up the box at the coworker's house, we connected the Rg6 from his roof antenna and did a re-scan of the channels in Myth Backend Setup, and voila- all the local digital channels were locked and added perfectly- no "no tables" error on any channel, which was due to my use of a 50 cent UHF loop antenna for the testing at my house- but still not bad for a piece of wire loop

I verified that all his video plugins for Firefox worked fine for Real/Flash/WMV video feeds from random sites- no issues with VLC plugin or the awesome gecko-mediaplayer plugin for Firefox:

sudo apt-get install gnome-mplayer gecko-mediaplayer

I found out about this at

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=766683

Appears to be an outstanding general purpose video player plugin- I tested with Windows Media and Real feeds at the PBS Frontline website, but haven't tried Quicktime yet.
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post #21 of 73 Old 05-11-2008, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

....

IMO, Mythbuntu is worth the price of admission just for the Control Center applet, which allows easy install of DVD decryption and other restricted codecs from the MediBuntu repos.

....

My solution to that issue was to just use a regular old http session to download copies of win32codecs, libdvdcss2, libdvdread3 (sp?) and libdvdnav and archiving them in a safe place. Then I just install them by double-clicking on them and using gdebi.

Those libs haven't changed in years, so why download each time? And this way I never have to worry about the current repository getting taken down (which has happened a couple of times in the last few years).
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post #22 of 73 Old 05-12-2008, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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The Kworld 115 is working so well in this build that I ordered another from newegg- it's on sale today for $60, free shipping. Great deal for an ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuner card with dual RF inputs and remote that can be made to work with lirc/Myth (though I didn't go through the exercise and just used the $3 Packard Bell FastMedia serial port IR receiver and matching remote).
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post #23 of 73 Old 05-13-2008, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

My solution to that issue was to just use a regular old http session to download copies of win32codecs, libdvdcss2, libdvdread3 (sp?) and libdvdnav and archiving them in a safe place. Then I just install them by double-clicking on them and using gdebi.

Those libs haven't changed in years, so why download each time? And this way I never have to worry about the current repository getting taken down (which has happened a couple of times in the last few years).

I assume you mean the .debs here

http://packages.medibuntu.org/pool/n...e/w/w32codecs/

Is there another location for the proprietary codecs, restricted extras, and lib* debs you mention?
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post #24 of 73 Old 05-13-2008, 12:16 PM
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Yeah, actually about a year ago when I was installing Fiesty, Medibuntu (or was it their predecessor???) got taken down and I had to go looking for those libraries in other locations (they had a new site up and running in about a week, so they did gt back up and running fairly quickly). I ending up finding a set in the VLC archives. So they do exist in other places, but they are a PITA to find which is why I decided to just save and install them by hand instead of doenloading them every time.
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post #25 of 73 Old 05-30-2008, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Heads Up!

The Kworld 115 is now $50 shipped at newegg with Free Shipping! Lowest it's ever been on the net-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815260005

I've paid $75 and $60 for this card with shipping, so this is a great deal.

Perfect time to stock up for Myth/Mythbuntu builds....
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post #26 of 73 Old 05-30-2008, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

The Kworld 115 is working so well in this build that I ordered another from newegg- it's on sale today for $60, free shipping. Great deal for an ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuner card

Have you ever used the Kworld in NTSC mode under Myth? I've added a HDHR, and now I'm thinking about using the Kworld to record NTSC to resolve conflicts on the analog channels. But all of the instruction for Myth that I've run across assumes the ATSC/QAM application...
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post #27 of 73 Old 05-30-2008, 12:54 PM
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RGB - do you have any specific tips on getting the remote to work? I have tried playing around with lirc, but I'm a linux noob and still trying to figure it out. I've got a 8.04 x64 system running nicely with 2 kworld 115 cards, and the only thing holding me back from "production" use is the remote. I can't figure out how to get a driver to load for the IR receiver.

Thanks in advance!
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post #28 of 73 Old 05-30-2008, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scram View Post

Have you ever used the Kworld in NTSC mode under Myth? I've added a HDHR, and now I'm thinking about using the Kworld to record NTSC to resolve conflicts on the analog channels. But all of the instruction for Myth that I've run across assumes the ATSC/QAM application...

I've used in NTSC mode, and in dual mode (able to tune QAM and NTSC, but not both at the same time). If you just want to use it for NTSC set it up as a V4L tuner. There are a couple of tricks to get audio working right (some people, including me, had problems, but I don't remember what I did to fix them, but I know there are answers on the ubuntuforums).
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post #29 of 73 Old 05-30-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bah1976 View Post

RGB - do you have any specific tips on getting the remote to work? I have tried playing around with lirc, but I'm a linux noob and still trying to figure it out. I've got a 8.04 x64 system running nicely with 2 kworld 115 cards, and the only thing holding me back from "production" use is the remote. I can't figure out how to get a driver to load for the IR receiver.

Thanks in advance!

Last I checked (and this would be a while ago) the kernel required patching for the IR receiver on the card to work. This may not be true for newer kernels... But if I were you, I'd just buy or make a 3rd party IR receiver and use the remote with that (or some other remote).
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post #30 of 73 Old 05-30-2008, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scram View Post

Have you ever used the Kworld in NTSC mode under Myth? I've added a HDHR, and now I'm thinking about using the Kworld to record NTSC to resolve conflicts on the analog channels. But all of the instruction for Myth that I've run across assumes the ATSC/QAM application...

I have not used it for NTSC analog yet. It is dedetected as a V4L tuner card in the Myth Backend setup, so in theory, it shouldn't be any more complicated than adding it twice, once as a DVB card, and then again as a V4L card.

Someone else will have to speak for how to add channels separately and how to switch "input Source" in the front end, as each tuner type (DVB for ATSC/QAM and V4L for analog) needs to be "connected" to an input source (tuner, Svideo, compisite, etc) according to Myth standards/terminology.

Also, I haven't addressed the analog mode audio issues.
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