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post #121 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post

Broadcom has never released a Linux driver. They have all been reverse engineered by dedicated Linux programmers.

It looks like I need to correct myself (eat my words). I just happened across some info regarding a new driver that Broadcom developed with the assistance of Dell.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/new_l...drivers_arrive
http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php
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post #122 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 03:50 AM
 
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Yes, but only under tremendous pressure from us...
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post #123 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I just updated to Ubuntu 8.10, and opened Nautalis but have the same problem - I see a blank pane when I open up the Vista PC. I tried the following procedure: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=238 but when I tried to make the link, got "Operation not permitted" error:
link /mnt/vista_public ./vista_public

You might want to continue the 8.10/Vista sharing issue in the "Official" 8.10 thread.


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post #124 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post


I'm just saying, from personal experience, that the transition from Windows to Linux is still, sadly, far from being "plug and play". But don't take this as an attack on Linux or anything. I would love for it to be polished, but my experience has been different, that's all.

Sorry if I came off as defensive or fanboyish, but I don't want noobs to get the wrong impression from generalizations.

The transition from one OS to any other OS is always a technical affair that takes time and effort to accomplish and acclimate to a different way of doing things, whether going from Win to OSX, OSX to Linux, or OSX to Windows.

Doing modprobe's in a terminal is easier than the umpteen dialogs, Device Manager clicking and Registry hunting in Windows, once one's initial fears are overcome. Using a few terminal commands for device driver probing/diagnostics gives control back to YOU, and is no more cryptic than registry hacking/editing, or interrogating the Device Manager Dialog drilldowns for *.dll conflicts or versions.

There are too many superficial Linux "reviews" that use faulty logic or demonstrate no experience or judgment in building up a PC with an OS load from scratch.

There's a lot of valid criticisms that can be levied against any OS, particularly Linux. But too often, mildly experienced or inexperienced OS installers miss the mark and criticize issues that aren't Linux-centric.

I'll dig up a good recent example of this kind of "review'.


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post #125 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a recent example that illustrates my point:

http://www.slate.com/id/2202664/

The reviewer complains about the Ubuntu install process, then somewhat backtracks saying "...an operating system installation is rarely a painless affair", which is true- no noob could install XP/Vista/OSX from scratch- any OS install takes a techie type. If he admits this, why did he elaborate on Ubuntu's install issues?

And then if you read the sidebar he links to,
http://www.slate.com/id/2202664/sidebar/2202980/

he admits that the problem was burning the install image to CD too fast- burning from his Windows OS (i.e he had to burn the Cd from Windows before installing it, obviously)! So, ALL the install issues he covered were either OS agnostic or due to bad burns in Windows!? The problem is, the whole negative paragraph on his Windows CD burning bad judgements imply a problem for Ubuntu! This adversely affects the impression imparted on casual readers and Linux noobs.

It's the same fallacy that occurs all over the net and I mentioned before- you can't compare Linux install-from-scratch to a Win/OSX preinstall. You have to compare an OSX hackintosh install or Windows install from a CD from scratch to a Linux install, *or* compare preloads of Linux (from Dell, Hp or other Linux-oriented smaller vendors, or a netbook) to an OEM Win/OSX preload, but YOU CAN'T MIX THE TWO! Well, you can, but you're commiting a basic error in logic and judgement.

re: app installation, he entirely ommitted any mention of *.deb installers for Ubuntu, which you download and doubleclick, just like Win exe's or msi's, but then admits the repository system is "easier" than Win/OSX!

And the "no icon in the menu after installing an app" issue is the app's fault (not communicating with the desktop environment properly), not the OS- same for Windows! I've installed hundreds of Windows apps in the past 15+ years that didn't add an icon to the Start menu...

Lots of other "reviews" like this all over the net.

Some of the *valid* criticisms he could/should have levied- the lack of many commercial apps from Adobe and the like (which most home users probably don't need/use), lack of an iLife-equivalent A/V authoring/editing suite designed for casual consumers (home users need/want this), or the gamerz complaints re: native Linux ports, though a lot of apps/games from these examples are covered in Wine, which improves *weekly*.

I'm more than content with the Gimp's of the world, and my trusty Paint Shop Pro v7 (the first and last paint/photo editing program I ever bought, having upgraded from v3, v4, v6) which works perfectly in Wine. Same goes for everything else I ever did in Win98SE/XP- I either found a native Linux alternative, or cover a gap/want with the same app I used in XP with Wine, currently only:

IMGburn- native K3B and NeroLinux 3.x are fine, though
DVD Shrink- K9copy is a good Linux functional equivalent
DVD Fab- Biggest gap, though it's officially supported as a Wine app by developer
Paint Shop Pro v7- just habit/nostalgia- Gimp is great
IrfanView - for a few unique image editing functions- just haven't looked hard enough at the Linux alternatives yet
TmpgEnc DVD Author 1.6.26.73- ManDVD appears to be a good Linux alternative, and DVD Styler and Q DVD Author are developing nicely


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post #126 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a constructive/informative review of Ubuntu 8.10 released today

http://bin-false.org/?p=45


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post #127 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Probably the best site for Linux constructive criticisms and rants:

http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/10/eof.html

Unfortunately, the blog author is calling it quits, but past posts are still a good read.


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post #128 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 11:45 AM
 
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Eh, I don't need no steenkin' opinions. I know what I think: Indispensable.
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post #129 of 273 Old 10-31-2008, 11:01 PM
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I can only give my experiences. I thought Linux was easy to install when I installed it about 8 years ago, or whenever Mandrake 8.0 came out. At the time I had never even seen a Linux box. I ran OS/2 at home but maintained Windows boxes at work. I kept seeing people complaining about how hard it was to install so I did a little test using my wife as the tester. A person that even today has can barely push the on button on the MythTV box she uses. I gave her a machine with a cleaned HDD in it, a Windows 98 CD, and a Mandrake CD set. She got Linux installed without any assistance (other than me telling her to read the screen and do what she thought best). She never got windows working, much less install any apps like office or all the other things that's standard in a linux distro.. Mind you she has absolutely no computer (or any electronics) expertise. This proved to my satisfaction that all the BS about Linux being hard to install is just BS. Of course using OS/2 I didn't have any hardware that was windows only either.
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post #130 of 273 Old 11-01-2008, 08:23 AM
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Having just installed Ubuntu 8.10 on both a desktop and a laptop, I'd have to say it was remarkably painless. The desktop machine has a Linksys USB 802.11g wifi adapter which has never worked with past Fedora installations, though this may have as much to do with the kernel version in 8.10 as with any Ubuntu/Fedora differences. My daughter's laptop was upgraded from Feisty on which we always had to start the Intel wifi device manually, but not anymore. Since wifi has been one of the biggest obstacles to ease of installation for Linux in the past, I'm quite happy to see how far we've come. I also didn't have to fiddle with the 915resolution utility to get her Intel graphics adapter to display in the proper widescreen mode. Pretty much it was insert CD, answer a few questions, starting enjoying Ubuntu. I've installed countless distributions over the past decade; this was the easiest one yet.
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post #131 of 273 Old 11-07-2008, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Reason #2893 to use Linux

How Linux Supports More Devices Than Any Other OS, Ever
http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2008/10...re-device.html

http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/11/04/236238.shtml


Excerpt from another discussion:
Microsoft Begs Hardware Makers To Take Support Seriously
http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/11/05/2315227.shtml

by QuantumG (50515) * on Wednesday November 05, @10:42PM

Maybe Microsoft should do what the Linux community does. Work with manufacturers to get the drivers written and then maintain the drivers for the manufacturers forever.

Ya, that's likely.

BTW - I own two webcams now. Neither work under Windows since I lost the driver disk (and those drivers were useless under XP64/Vista anyway), but they both work just fine under Linux. What's the world coming to?!



There are more examples of bluetooth devices, etc that are supported by Linux but not by Vista/Xp natively, from users who lost their driver disk.

I'm seeing this trend grow- with people making use of large amounts of hardware and devices that are orphaned/unsupported on Windows moving forward, but run fine on Linux.

I needed to buy a PCI wireless card for a PC build for a niece, using a nice TuSL2 board with Celeron 1.3Ghz- more than enough for all her needs. The tuSL2 mobo has on board Ethernet, audio and other standard ports, all supported automatically by recent vintage Linuxes, of course.

When selecting the PCI card, I just went to
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCateg...eless-Adapters

filtered for PCI b/g cards, sort by lowest price-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...nd&Order=PRICE

then started reading reviews for the first card in the list, filtered against "linux"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Keywords=linux

based on the reports, I skipped that card.

I continued the process until I hit this card, 3rd or 4th down-
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Keywords=linux

Based on the favorable Linux reviews and the external antenna design, I bought it.

I did the same procedure to buy a USB wireless b/g "thumb" adapter, and ended up with a nice Trendnet with cool integrated hotspot detector/analyzer
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833156161

I never understood all the bellyaching from people re: Linux hardware drivers, when there is a HUGE selection of easy to find parts that DO work. Just AVOID those that DON'T work!


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post #132 of 273 Old 11-07-2008, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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re: X-Fi driver for Linux-

Creative releases Linux X-Fi driver under the GPL

http://arstechnica.com/journals/linu...-under-the-gpl

...still wouldn't recommend a Creative card to anyone...


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post #133 of 273 Old 11-20-2008, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Reason #2894 to use Linux (and FOSS)-

Apple's New MacBooks Have Built-In Copy Protection

http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.p.../11/19/2218217

Great post:

"Looks like I won't be buying a Macbook (Score:5, Informative)
by aqui (472334) on Wednesday November 19, @07:30PM (#25826707)
For all those slashdoters that work at apple: Make sure you let your Marketing department know that this has cost them a long time customer.

I have a powerbook G4 and I recently bought a mac mini for my wife.

I was planning to get a new Macbook for Xmas.

However hearing about this has changed my mind. I will not let a company dictate what my fair use rights are. I'm disappointed, its so short sighted on Apples part. Technology companies should stick to technology and let our courts and elected members of government worry about our rights and rights of content producers (admittedly they haven't done a good job either).

I moved away from Windows because of this (that and stability issues). I know from the Windows media player 10 or higher behaviour that it won't let me play is my own content (I created it, I own the copyright) and home videos over a projector...

It's bad enough when I have to change software, in this case an open source player (VLC) solved the problem for me. If the "crippleware" is OS and hardware based the only thing at that point is to chose an uncrippled product.

It's too bad. Apple does do a good job with hardware etc.. I've been very satisfied with the Powerbook G4 I have.

I will now be looking at a nice small laptop with an AMD CPU running Linux (probably Ubuntu). If anyone has any suggestions let me know.

Thanks."


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post #134 of 273 Old 11-20-2008, 06:58 AM
 
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In case this is you asking this question, I am happy with my HP 8710w. Very solid, like the IBMs used to be, and runs Kubongo well. Not exactly small, but they have smaller ones. I would avoid HP's 'consumer-class' notebooks and stick with 'business-class'.
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post #135 of 273 Old 11-20-2008, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

In case this is you asking this question, I am happy with my HP 8710w. Very solid, like the IBMs used to be, and runs Kubongo well. Not exactly small, but they have smaller ones. I would avoid HP's 'consumer-class' notebooks and stick with 'business-class'.

No, I didn't post the anti-Apple commentary above, it's from another slashdotter "aqui".

The real point was that moving forward, both Win and OSX will only continue to tighten restrictions and mandatory DRM controls, both in software and hardware, which is why I only use PC's I build personally at home.

I only wish I could build my own notebook, but there's enough vendors doing Linux preloads now, plus used notebooks known to work well with Linux, that it's not an issue (yet)

The problem moving forward is that notebooks will start to have DRM-enabled hardware in them that you can't easily disable or remove.


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post #136 of 273 Old 11-20-2008, 11:24 AM
 
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I doubt Linux will cooperate with that...
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post #137 of 273 Old 11-20-2008, 11:40 AM
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Yeah, the DRM hardware in question is most likely only invoked on demand by the OS... which means Linux will never see it. Of course, to run it on Linux you'd have to either crack the protection scheme or otherwise strip off the encryption, but I've never seen a case where the hardware is forced on unless the OS calls it.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
Intel Corp., Technology Manufacturing Group
but I do work there.
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post #138 of 273 Old 11-26-2008, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow- the mainstream CE media is starting to sound like Linux "evangelicals"- a mainstream article peppered with such subversive FOSS-esque sentiments like "freedom", "control" and "anti-DRM"! What's the world coming to!?

http://www.cepro.com/article/why_dig...really_matter/



 

Quote:
"When it comes to what's really important with media, it's not about the distribution method, it's about the control."

"If you're anything like me, the first day you found out you could rip your music CDs, you went through your entire disc collection to start a digital library.

With the ability to store music digitally, you had the freedom to control where/when/how you listened to your tunes. That's where DRM reared its ugly head -- the studios wanted to control your listening experience."

"When it comes to watching video, consumers want to have the best quality and the most control.

They can't control if iTunes crashes or loses any record that they purchased the content and denies access. They can't control if Comcast is having an outage in their neighborhood.

Why shouldn't you be able to stream Blu-ray quality movies throughout your house? Why shouldn't you be able to pull up your library of content pre-loaded on a media server?"

"Even if the download services are flashy and are way more functional than cable on-demand ever will be, you have to ask yourself this: are you really in control of your content? "

 


...reasons to use Linux and FOSS media players and only Linux-compatible web streaming sites/services.



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post #139 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Reason #2895 to use Linux-

DRM-free gaming

(from slashdot.org)

 

Quote:


From '92 - '08. RIP PC gaming. (Score:3, Informative)
by LordOfYourPants (145342) on Friday November 28, @06:46PM (#25919953)

How things change in just over 15 years.

1992:

Buy Doom after getting to try 1/3 of the game first.

* Be able to play it via dialup modem or LAN for as long as you have the working equipment.
* Be able to sell the game after you're done with it and have that second user have the game be just as usable to them.
* Enjoy playing thousands of user-created maps and mods -- anything from a monster health editor to a graphic replacement mod.

2008:

Buy game X.

* Require internet permission to install it. Hopefully you haven't committed the mortal sin of installing it more than three times.
* Require internet permission every time you wish to run the game.
* Require CD checking despite the above.
* Unable to sell the game to people who want something more than a coaster.
* Multiplayer server for Game X goes down after year because Game X 2009 edition is now out. People who still want to play the original Game X via LAN/hosted internet games are SOL and anyone hacking together hosting capabilities likely receives notice from lawyers.
* Have some type of over-zealous security check built into the game mess with your computer, internet connection, or both.
* Deal with an over-moderated/sterile mod community.
 

 


Play these instead-


http://sathyasays.com/2008/01/12/25-top-3d-linux-games/

http://gamesuy.blogspot.com/2007/12/...-3d-games.html

...I mean, really, how many first person shooters does anyone need, assuming you can download new maps, weapons and other mods for a given 3D engine...



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post #140 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 04:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

Yeah, the DRM hardware in question is most likely only invoked on demand by the OS... which means Linux will never see it. Of course, to run it on Linux you'd have to either crack the protection scheme or otherwise strip off the encryption, but I've never seen a case where the hardware is forced on unless the OS calls it.

The bottom line is- why give money to those fighting against you? Buying a product that supports or includes DRM hardware or software is subsidizing the efforts of those fighting against you!?

The money given them will be used to pay lobbyists to buy legislation in their favor, making things even *harder* for all of us re: media use in the future!

Lay down your arms and stop the DRM cold war...


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post #141 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 09:01 AM
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Hey all. New poster here...

I want to start off by saying that I run XP and Ubuntu on my machines at home and use a Mac at work. I'm by no means a zealot of any camp.

For anyone who's not afraid to tinker and who can "go without" and boycott (for lack of a better term) DRM content, this is all well and good. But what about the family and possibly various guests you'll have over? My wife would hit me with a frying pan if I told her that we couldn't watch the premium services any more, assuming there were no alternative to access the same content. Or, if I told her that the BD in the new HTPC was pretty much useless, since Linux doesn't support DRM content (and I don't care to spend a $100+ just for an OS for my media center).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the Open Source movement was supposed to free people of paying for quality software, a support base, and updates/upgrades, all the while providing the same (or better) functionality and enjoyment. At what point does the Open Source community go from a freeing agent to a dictatorship imposing restrictions on using restricted content, albeit ridiculous by any measure? In my opinion, and this may not be the opinion of the community, open source should provide the same access to content, controlled or otherwise, as the rest of the world, unless a comparable alternative is available. Otherwise, you run the risk of creating yet another option that's different, and doesn't play nice with the rest of the non-techie world.

Just my opinion
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post #142 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawdawgUSMC View Post

For anyone who's not afraid to tinker and who can "go without" and boycott (for lack of a better term) DRM content, this is all well and good. But what about the family and possibly various guests you'll have over? My wife would hit me with a frying pan if I told her that we couldn't watch the premium services any more, assuming there were no alternative to access the same content.

Just my opinion

What specific premium services are you referring to?


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post #143 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

The bottom line is- why give money to those fighting against you? If anyone buys a device that supports or includes DRM hardware, you're subsidizing the efforts of those fighting against you!?

Lay down your arms and stop the DRM cold war...

I don't view it that way. I don't really have a problem with Hollywood trying to defend their material from piracy, digital or otherwise, even to the point of using so-called "draconian" measures to do so. Where I draw the line is giving these defenses the force of law (as the DMCA and attempts at "analog hole closure" have done)-- because doing so generally robs the legitimate consumer of the only recourses they have to get their legitimately acquired content working on their legitimately acquired equipment.

In other words, I think Hollywood should be allowed to litter their material with DRM to their heart's content-- I just think that there should be nothing illegal about smashing said DRM into jelly in order to get it to play on my equipment whether they like it or not.

I do not speak officially in any sense for
Intel Corp., Technology Manufacturing Group
but I do work there.
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post #144 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

What specific premium services are you referring to?

That was probably a little vague. I'm referring to the premium content as part of my FiOS TV subscription. Considering the CableCard fiasco, there's no good way to view encrypted channels without buying an HTPC from HP or Dell. There's nothing the open source community can do about that, or anyone else for that matter. That's between the various corporations and their many needless restrictions. Even if you do that, you lose the VOD option, which I planned to replace with Movielink or some other rental service, as I only use the VOD for new-ish stuff you have to pay for anyway. I can deal with no encrypted channels, but renting DRM content online has ruled out the use of Linux for me. Unless someone has a good solution that passes the WAF.
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post #145 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawdawgUSMC View Post

That was probably a little vague. I'm referring to the premium content as part of my FiOS TV subscription. Considering the CableCard fiasco, there's no good way to view encrypted channels without buying an HTPC from HP or Dell. There's nothing the open source community can do about that, or anyone else for that matter. That's between the various corporations and their many needless restrictions. Even if you do that, you lose the VOD option, which I planned to replace with Movielink or some other rental service, as I only use the VOD for new-ish stuff you have to pay for anyway. I can deal with no encrypted channels, but renting DRM content online has ruled out the use of Linux for me. Unless someone has a good solution that passes the WAF.

Can't you use Netflix or Blockbuster by mail DVD's for new releases?

The fact that you need to buy a commercial PC like HP/Dell just for Cablecard demonstrates that the days of DIY PC building for restricted media even on Windows is coming to an end. This alone ought to tell everyone something.

All the smart people I work with or know at other large companies (i.e. while collar professionals) have canceled most/all subscription broadcast and rely on OTA ATSC, DVD's (Netflix, borrow from friends, buy used or free from local library), web stream feeds from network (comedycentral, CNN.com, NBC.com,etc) or aggregate sites (hulu, etc), and of course darknet for some people.

Streaming HD on demand over the web is growing by leaps and bounds....

http://www.cbs.com/hd/

as well as movies on demand, all Linux compatible-

http://www.hulu.com/channels/Science-Fiction


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post #146 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 04:28 PM
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@RGB - I hadn't seen Hulu, so thanks! I beg to differ on your DIY statement. I think CableLabs had a good idea for a standard way of handling encrypted content. I just think it got out of hand. From what I've read, it seems Microsoft used it as another way to try and control the PC experience with the whole requirement of a second product key to "activate" the cablecard ability in Windows. Not to mention the mess with the new, required BIOS string. Now, I don't think MS is some giant evil corporation out to get everyone, and I can understand a lot of their moves from a business perspective. This CableCard issue really stands out, though. They're basically alienating the DIY'ers of the entire market they're going after. I would guess that most who want an HTPC fall into the DIY category, so it turns out to hurt a majority of consumers. Obviously, that's just a guess but I don't think I'm too far from the mark.

I don't mind DRM, or at least the principle reason behind it. I just think there should be easier, legitimate ways to access it. In fact, I think there probably IS an easier, and maybe smarter, way to implement it. But I digress...

Getting back to what I was initially discussing: There are a great many in the OS community who don't like DRM, or protected/closed-sourced, content of any kind and really shun it. I just don't think that stuff should be left out of an open source project simply because of it's restricted use. We still have to purchase all of the hardware for our computers, or pay someone to build it for us. I haven't seen any free, quality hardware operations. At least none that have been successful.
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post #147 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawdawgUSMC View Post


I don't mind DRM, or at least the principle reason behind it. I just think there should be easier, legitimate ways to access it. In fact, I think there probably IS an easier, and maybe smarter, way to implement it. But I digress...

I don't want this thread devolving into a DRM flame war, but...

...a LOT of us *do* mind DRM, and are vehemently against any product or service that uses it. Lots of us believe DRM is wrong in principle and practice.

I guess some of us have felt we can help "save" others from DRM through logic, reason and anecdotal examples of its failures, but we're growing weary of the "savior" role (which many interpret as being "fanatical" or "evangelical"). Moving forward, I don't plan to partake in DRM discussions any longer.

It is both amusing and sad watching coworkers and non-technical family members wrangle with Windows activation, encryption updates on their satellite/cable/gamesystem and BluRay set tops, losing their iTunes purchases due to a PC hardware and/or iTunes software failure, etc, etc.

We've tried to warn people for years, but I guess everyone has to feel the pain before they "get it".


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post #148 of 273 Old 11-29-2008, 08:51 PM
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I have no intention of flaming anyone regarding DRM. Just joining in the discussion and, perhaps, provoke thought.

I've seen people here and on other boards state that they won't reply to [INSERT FAVORITE TOPIC OF CONTENTION] any longer. What's that about?

The reason I agree with it in principle is due to Article I, Section 8 of the US Constitution. I'm certainly not abreast of international law, but I suspect most/all other countries have similar laws. As I said, there's probably better/smarter ways to implement the DRM idea. I don't think "they" have come anywhere close to the best way to implement that, electronically. And, so long as we have money in this world we all will be subject to restricted use of ideas/content/products.

Again, getting back to my original basic question -- Why would the open source community NOT provide software to allow people to use this? It's obviously not going away in the near or mid term.

Just my opinion.
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post #149 of 273 Old 11-30-2008, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawdawgUSMC View Post


The reason I agree with it in principle is due to Article I, Section 8 of the US Constitution.

...which states

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause

I'll leave it to readers to assess whether DRM promotes the *progress* of science and the arts, and whether copyright terms of

"life of the author plus 70 years and for works of corporate authorship to 120 years after creation or 95 years after publication, whichever endpoint is earlier..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_B..._Extension_Act

reflect "limited time" per the Constitution.

Please stick to "what Linux can do for media PC's" for the remainder of this thread.


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post #150 of 273 Old 11-30-2008, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawdawgUSMC View Post


I've seen people here and on other boards state that they won't reply to [INSERT FAVORITE TOPIC OF CONTENTION] any longer. What's that about?

...because some of us forum "long timers" have been "around the block" ad nauseum on wedge issues like DRM, copyright, the darknet as a response to abuse of Article I, Section 8 of the US Constitution, why choice and libre media are the only way going forward, etc, etc.

While some argue for the sake of argument (addressing no one in particular), others have felt we were helping people *avoid* things that were wrong on principle. Most people don't have the foresight or desire to abstract the "big picture" principles (for a lot of valid reasons- distractions/stress of everyday life, etc) on long range, big impact issues like DRM'd media.

We can argue, give examples, describe the basic priciples, and tell stories
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

but your Mom, niece's and J6P's have to get "burned" themselves before they "get it".


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