5400 rpm vs 7200 rpm hard drive. Which one and why? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 62 Old 11-30-2009, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Trying to decide between two hard drives.

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA

vs

SAMSUNG EcoGreen F2 HD103SI 1TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA

Same brand, about the same price (85 vs 80), same # of platters (2), same size (1TB). Only real difference is spindle speed.

I am weighing Performance vs Noise for my HTPC build.

Any thoughts?
northbear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 62 Old 11-30-2009, 11:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tux99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
It depends, what will be the use?
Sole disk, therefore for OS and media files or only media storage?
Any MythTV recording or just XBMC file playback?

Generally speaking I prefer 5400rpm, much more durable due to lower heat, apart from lower noise.
Performance won't normally be an issue with a HTPC.

My Linux news / reviews / tips+tricks / downloads web site: http://www.linuxtech.net/
tux99 is offline  
post #3 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tux99 View Post

It depends, what will be the use?
Sole disk, therefore for OS and media files or only media storage?
Any MythTV recording or just XBMC file playback?

Generally speaking I prefer 5400rpm, much more durable due to lower heat, apart from lower noise.
Performance won't normally be an issue with a HTPC.

It would be the only disk (both OS and storage).
It will be used to both record and playback MythTV at the same time.
Eventually I may setup XBMC but it may not be right away.

I agree with you about the benefits of the 5400rpm drives but have been leaning towards the 7200 because I am planning on using it as the OS drive as well as storage.

This gets to the core of the issue:

Is 5400rpm fast enough for a OS/Storage drive or will I notice a performance improvement going up to 7200rpm drive?
If there is a performance improvement is it significant enough to justify the potential noise increase?

I don't have any direct experience with this and can't find any appropriate reviews/comparisons online.
northbear is offline  
post #4 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 06:18 AM
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Physical bearings have a finite lifetime.

A 5400rpm drive spins 25% slower than a 7200rpm drive, increasing bearing life by at least that amount.

With the areal densities (data density, i.e. number of bits per linear inch on the platter) as high as they are with recent vintage drives, there is no real downside to going with 5400rpm drives, and several upsides.

Longer bearing life, lower heat, lower noise and lower power (depending on model).

I would go with 5400rpm drives for PC's that will be on most of the time.

Yes, there may be a measurable sustained throughput increase with a 7200rpm drive if comparing apples-apples (same capacity/aerial density drives), but if real world usage, the difference is minimal.

If you want fast boot time for your OS+drivers and apps, then get a ~20-30GB SSD just for your OS and swap, and 5400RPM drives for all other data.
Rgb is offline  
post #5 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 06:21 AM
 
quantumstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,694
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Anytime you have Myth and the database on the same drive, you will see severe performance bdegradation when it's flagging, 7200 or not. Recommend a 2.5" fast drive for OS and a 2TB for /home.
quantumstate is offline  
post #6 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 06:25 AM
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

Anytime you have Myth and the database on the same drive, you will see severe performance bdegradation when it's flagging, 7200 or not. Recommend a 2.5" fast drive for OS and a 2TB for /home.

By "Myth drive" I assume you are referring to the drive with the recordings storage, and / for the database, assuming only two partitions, / and /home?

Most 2.5" drives in the recent past have been 5400rpm or lower, though 7200rpm is becoming common for 2.5" drives. I would get a 5400rpm 2.5" drive for the OS, for the lowest power/heat/noise next to an SSD, for less cost and much higher capacity than an SSD.
Rgb is offline  
post #7 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

Yes, there may be a measurable sustained throughput increase with a 7200rpm drive if comparing apples-apples (same capacity/aerial density drives), but if real world usage, the difference is minimal..

Thanks for your feedback and completely agree on you assessment of the 5400 drive with regard to ware, noise and heat. Your conclusion is the response I was looking for. If in the real world I will not notice it is probably not worth it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

If you want fast boot time for your OS+drivers and apps, then get a ~20-30GB SSD just for your OS and swap, and 5400RPM drives for all other data.

I thought about two drives but a SSD are still too expensive for my budget. If there are inexpensive options out there I would love to know about them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumstate View Post

Anytime you have Myth and the database on the same drive, you will see severe performance bdegradation when it's flagging, 7200 or not. Recommend a 2.5" fast drive for OS and a 2TB for /home.

I assume you are talking about commercial flagging (is there other flagging?)? Can this be done overnight or at a time when the PC is not in active use? Are there other times that two drives have a great benefit? I looked into this a while back and thought that the benefit was not enough persuade me to buy two hard drives, but maybe I should revisit it.
northbear is offline  
post #8 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 11:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mac The Knife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by northbear View Post

Are there other times that two drives have a great benefit?

If you're planning on doing any video transcoding or video editing then two drives give a substantial performance increase if you read from one drive and write to the other drive. The spindle speed will also make a noticable difference in those cases.

BTW, if you're loading the new disk with a huge amount of data from an existing disk then you'll definitely notice the slower speed. But that's a one-time-only hit (even though it might be on the order of hours), so you might not care about that.
Mac The Knife is offline  
post #9 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 12:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Lost Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North of the Columbia River
Posts: 475
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by northbear View Post

I thought about two drives but a SSD are still too expensive for my budget. If there are inexpensive options out there I would love to know about them!

The second the Kingston 40Gb SSD hits $85 after rebate I'm snagging one. I totally missed the Newegg Shellshocker and now it's either out of stock or about $120 (and you can get the 60Gb at that price).
Lost Dog is online now  
post #10 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

If you're planning on doing any video transcoding or video editing then two drives give a substantial performance increase if you read from one drive and write to the other drive. The spindle speed will also make a noticable difference in those cases.

BTW, if you're loading the new disk with a huge amount of data from an existing disk then you'll definitely notice the slower speed. But that's a one-time-only hit (even though it might be on the order of hours), so you might not care about that.

Not planning on any transcoding or editing. Maybe someday eventually ripping DVD's and then transcoding, but it would not be a common occurance and I could live with slower speed in these cases.

This will be my first HTPC and so there isn't any data from an existing disk. Even if there was it would only be a one time hit and I could live with that.
northbear is offline  
post #11 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 01:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
wnewell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: DFW Texas
Posts: 566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I use 7200 drives for everything. I also use a single for the boot and file system, but for myth storage I use 2 7200 drives in raid 0. I sometimes record up to 6 programs at once with 1 or more doing flagging. I don't think that could all be done on a single drive with reliability. Let me put it this way, I'm not going to try it. I have not run into any problems with my setup. Ysing JFS on the raid drives and ext3 on the system drive. For ref:
[root@wes2 wes]# hdparm -tT /dev/sda

/dev/sda:
Timing cached reads: 6142 MB in 2.00 seconds = 3071.86 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 118 MB in 3.03 seconds = 38.96 MB/sec
[root@wes2 wes]# hdparm -tT /dev/md0

/dev/md0:
Timing cached reads: 5142 MB in 2.00 seconds = 2572.09 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 482 MB in 3.00 seconds = 160.42 MB/sec
wnewell is offline  
post #12 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 04:15 PM
Member
 
Jsquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Along similar lines to this thread, will there be a significant knock in performance using a small IDE drive for the OS and a large 5400RPM sata drive for media storage?

I have a few old IDE drives that I have been wondering if I could use for just this purpose.
Jsquid is offline  
post #13 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewell View Post

I use 7200 drives for everything. I also use a single for the boot and file system, but for myth storage I use 2 7200 drives in raid 0. I sometimes record up to 6 programs at once with 1 or more doing flagging. I don't think that could all be done on a single drive with reliability. Let me put it this way, I'm not going to try it. I have not run into any problems with my setup. Ysing JFS on the raid drives and ext3 on the system drive.

WOW, that is much more than my system will be. I am planning on only 1 tuner. I may go to two someday, but have no current plans.

Speeking of file systems, has anyone tried ext4?

Since I was planning on using ubuntu 9.10 and the standard file system is ext4 I was considering it. Yes I know about the large file corruption concern and have been following the bug tracking. From reading the bug report it doesn't seem like it is very repeatable/widespread. I think it will end up being nothing, but who am I to know.
northbear is offline  
post #14 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsquid View Post

Along similar lines to this thread, will there be a significant knock in performance using a small IDE drive for the OS and a large 5400RPM sata drive for media storage?

I have a few old IDE drives that I have been wondering if I could use for just this purpose.

Hmmmm I actually could use an old IDE drive also! I guess I never really considered it because I thought it would be to slow and to loud.

But I would be glad if someone corrected me!
northbear is offline  
post #15 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 08:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
k_ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Too slow? No. Too loud? Most likely, yes.
k_ross is offline  
post #16 of 62 Old 12-01-2009, 10:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
wnewell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: DFW Texas
Posts: 566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I used an old 8GB 5400 drive on a frontend for a while. Wife didn't complain but wanted to know what the clicking was. I removed it and replaced it with a 4GB usb flash drive.
wnewell is offline  
post #17 of 62 Old 12-02-2009, 02:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mac The Knife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsquid View Post

Along similar lines to this thread, will there be a significant knock in performance using a small IDE drive for the OS and a large 5400RPM sata drive for media storage?

I have a few old IDE drives that I have been wondering if I could use for just this purpose.

As long as that old IDE drive is reasonable fast then you could actually see a performance improvement. For an extreme example, a small old Raptor drive with a 10,000 RPM spindle speed that held just the OS, Apps and swap would give wonderfully fast performance when loading apps and when booting.
Mac The Knife is offline  
post #18 of 62 Old 12-02-2009, 04:17 PM
Member
 
Jsquid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

As long as that old IDE drive is reasonable fast then you could actually see a performance improvement. For an extreme example, a small old Raptor drive with a 10,000 RPM spindle speed that held just the OS, Apps and swap would give wonderfully fast performance when loading apps and when booting.

I might just give it a try then. If it gets too noisy, I can always go back to separate partitions on a single drive.
Jsquid is offline  
post #19 of 62 Old 12-03-2009, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, I think I have been convinced that the 5400 rpm drive is the way to go. Also since I have a 60 GB western digital 7200 rpm caviar drive from 2002 that is just being stored in my old computer currently, I will probably pull it out and see how loud it is isolated from the rest of my current (fairly noisy) computer.

Judging from the comments here adding this drive for the OS should give a performance improvement over a single 5400 rpm drive, correct?

My only concern with doing this is that it is an older drive and I would hate to get it all setup only to have the hard drive fail in two months! How hard is the OS on the hard drive?

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it!
northbear is offline  
post #20 of 62 Old 12-03-2009, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mac The Knife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Yeah, you should see slightly better boot times and slightly faster load times for really large apps with the higher spindle speed.
Mac The Knife is offline  
post #21 of 62 Old 12-03-2009, 12:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
k_ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by northbear View Post

How hard is the OS on the hard drive?

No where near as hard as MythTV is on your media hard drive. If you choose to put the MySQL database on your system hard drive, that will be the app that hits it the most.
k_ross is offline  
post #22 of 62 Old 12-03-2009, 02:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tux99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by northbear View Post

My only concern with doing this is that it is an older drive and I would hate to get it all setup only to have the hard drive fail in two months!

Do a
Code:
badblocks -svw /dev/sdX  (replace X with the device letter of the disk)
surface check on it before starting to use it, if it passes that test without errors then it will last quite a while still.
You have to do this test before installing anything on it as it wipes the disk completely.

My Linux news / reviews / tips+tricks / downloads web site: http://www.linuxtech.net/
tux99 is offline  
post #23 of 62 Old 12-04-2009, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Tux99 -- Thanks for the suggestion!

Results:

Code:
Checking for bad blocks in read-write mode
From block 0 to 58615703
Testing with pattern 0xaa: done                                
Reading and comparing: done                                
Testing with pattern 0x55: done                                
Reading and comparing: done                                
Testing with pattern 0xff: done                                
Reading and comparing: done                                
Testing with pattern 0x00: done                                
Reading and comparing: done                                
Pass completed, 0 bad blocks found.
No bad blocks so I will give it a go!
northbear is offline  
post #24 of 62 Old 12-04-2009, 05:40 AM
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Thanks to the OP- I nabbed one of the 1TB 5400rpm Samsungs for myself

I've had great luck with Samsung HD's in the past 6-8 years, running cool and quiet without issue.
Rgb is offline  
post #25 of 62 Old 12-04-2009, 12:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
k_ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's my understanding that modern hard drives will never fail such a bad block test, since they do automatic internal bad block remapping, making it invisible to the user.

On most drives you can get the "reallocated_sector_ct", along with other useful hard drive health information, with smartctl -a /dev/sdX

Hope this helps!
-- Kevin
k_ross is offline  
post #26 of 62 Old 12-04-2009, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mac The Knife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 4,903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
If you're running Karmic and the drive is a SMART drive then the easiest way to get all the disk health info is to go into the Palimpsest Disk Utility (System->Administration->Disk Utility) and click on "More Information" for the drive.
Mac The Knife is offline  
post #27 of 62 Old 12-04-2009, 01:36 PM
 
mythmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: 255.255.255.255
Posts: 2,142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've been using this one for years: Drive Fitness Test http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT

The "full scan" is always right
mythmaster is offline  
post #28 of 62 Old 12-04-2009, 09:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tux99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,523
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ross View Post

It's my understanding that modern hard drives will never fail such a bad block test, since they do automatic internal bad block remapping, making it invisible to the user.

On most drives you can get the "reallocated_sector_ct", along with other useful hard drive health information, with smartctl -a /dev/sdX

Hope this helps!
-- Kevin

Trust me they will fail this test, I have seen drives failing it and every drive that passed it has worked fine for years after the test.
The remapping only works if it's very few isolated bad blocks, but usually when a disk has surface errors or on an old disk the head alignment is getting worn you would have too many read/write errors for the remapping to hide it.

badblocks -svw does 4 complete passes (each with a different bit pattern) writing to every single byte of the disk and then reading it back, that's quite a hard stress test for any disk and if it passes it without errors in my experience that means the disk is healthy and can be relied upon.

You are right though, looking at the output of smartctl is useful too, but it doesn't replace a thorough surface scan.

My Linux news / reviews / tips+tricks / downloads web site: http://www.linuxtech.net/
tux99 is offline  
post #29 of 62 Old 12-05-2009, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
northbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: MSP
Posts: 243
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

Thanks to the OP- I nabbed one of the 1TB 5400rpm Samsungs for myself

I've had great luck with Samsung HD's in the past 6-8 years, running cool and quiet without issue.

You beat me to it! I finally got around to ordering it today!
northbear is offline  
post #30 of 62 Old 12-05-2009, 12:07 PM
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,888
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by northbear View Post

You beat me to it! I finally got around to ordering it today!

Ya snooze ya lose

Watch both our Samsung 1TB's crap out in about 3 months
Rgb is offline  
Reply HTPC - Linux Chat

User Tag List



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off