MythTV and CableCard with HDHomerun prime - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-04-2011, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought that in the past, the cablecard version of HDHomerun was to be limited to Windows Media Center. But, when I checked back there recently, I see that they mention MythTV as one of the DVR platforms:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/

It seems that the encrypted channels which are marked "copy freely" will be viewable, but the "copy once" channels will not. So, clearly that still means no HBO, Showtime, and no pay-per-view, etc.

But, what about the channels in the other tiers.. Is ESPN-HD "copy freely"? How about comedy central, etc?
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post #2 of 22 Old 06-04-2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tji View Post

I thought that in the past, the cablecard version of HDHomerun was to be limited to Windows Media Center. But, when I checked back there recently, I see that they mention MythTV as one of the DVR platforms:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/

It seems that the encrypted channels which are marked "copy freely" will be viewable, but the "copy once" channels will not. So, clearly that still means no HBO, Showtime, and no pay-per-view, etc.

But, what about the channels in the other tiers.. Is ESPN-HD "copy freely"? How about comedy central, etc?

What is marked "copy freely" is totally dependent on your local cable provider. Some people find they are lucky and everything is open and others find everything locked down. There has been some long discussions about this on the mythtv-users mailing list.
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post #3 of 22 Old 06-04-2011, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Does the hdhomerun channel scanner give any info, like the copy flagging, for encrypted channels? I have a couple of the original HDHRs, and I am interested in one of the new ones if I can use it for ESPN.
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post #4 of 22 Old 06-05-2011, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tji View Post

Does the hdhomerun channel scanner give any info, like the copy flagging, for encrypted channels? I have a couple of the original HDHRs, and I am interested in one of the new ones if I can use it for ESPN.

Since it does not decrypt, the original HDHomeRun can not see the state of the copy flag.
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post #5 of 22 Old 06-05-2011, 05:02 PM
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From http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/

Quote:


HDHomeRun PRIME supports streaming access-controlled copy-freely channels to other DVR applications including MythTV. These are channels that you subscribe to, are encrypted on the cable system (access-controlled), and do not impose restriction on use inside the home (copy-freely).

So, yes, it does decrypt and it does read the copy control flag.

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post #6 of 22 Old 06-05-2011, 07:03 PM
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From

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...53486&page=171

WideOpenWest cable is offering the basic 80+ channel lineup in clearQAM- no encryption, no external box rentals, just a QAM tuner like a stock HD Homerun (non-Prime) and Myth and you're good to go...

It's been going well for me...

No cablecard or other such nonsense here

I was about to simply cancel the cable TV and go OTA antenna- I have never subscribed to encrypted media, and never plan to.

WoW kept my business.
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-08-2011, 03:52 PM
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I remember hearing about WideOpenWest on the myth-users list, and given the name ended in "West", I got excited...

Then, (from their website) "We've been serving communities in Illinois, Michigan, Ohio and Indiana since 1996"



IMHO, the most disturbing issue with the state of the copy flag is that, even if it is set to copy-freely for your favorite channel today, your provider can, at a whim, flip it to copy-once tomorrow. And, in the case of comcast, you will never, ever be able to get any of their employees to even acknowledge the existence of said flag...
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post #8 of 22 Old 06-09-2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scram View Post
I remember hearing about WideOpenWest on the myth-users list, and given the name ended in "West", I got excited...

Then, (from their website) "We’ve been serving communities in Illinois, Michigan, Ohio and Indiana since 1996"



IMHO, the most disturbing issue with the state of the copy flag is that, even if it is set to copy-freely for your favorite channel today, your provider can, at a whim, flip it to copy-once tomorrow. And, in the case of comcast, you will never, ever be able to get any of their employees to even acknowledge the existence of said flag...
...that's because yous hoity-toity west-coasters are willing to pay for all those premium tiers and providers that force box/DVR rentals.

Us rust-belters would have cancelled en-masse if we all had to rent boxes for every VHS VCR (and QAM equipped DVD recorders) and 480i TV we still use.

While in jest, I think there's a lot of truth in the basic sentiments and demographic differences in our markets. My belief is that the volume of threatened dropped subs and complaints WoW received in their first attempt to encrypt SD digital in Cleveland gave them a taste of what to expect from the rest of the Midwest.

Just be glad there's a large group of salt-of-the-earth types like us to keep at least *one* of the providers honest

Now everyone all over the country has ammunition/precedent to take their providers to task, or maybe class action...

(...and it's not that we can't pay for the tiers and boxes from the "evil" providers, we just don't *want*/believe in them...)
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post #9 of 22 Old 06-15-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scram View Post


IMHO, the most disturbing issue with the state of the copy flag is that, even if it is set to copy-freely for your favorite channel today, your provider can, at a whim, flip it to copy-once tomorrow. And, in the case of comcast, you will never, ever be able to get any of their employees to even acknowledge the existence of said flag...


A bigger fear is AT&T or Comcast buying up WoW to remove the threat of clearQAm from the market
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post #10 of 22 Old 06-29-2011, 05:27 PM
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I thought "copy once" meant... copy once.
I.e. you can copy the original stream once to a hard drive (in a DVR or otherwise), but good luck trying to copy that file to another hard drive? So I could record the program, but not make another copy. No?
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post #11 of 22 Old 06-29-2011, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebo View Post

I thought "copy once" meant... copy once.
I.e. you can copy the original stream once to a hard drive (in a DVR or otherwise), but good luck trying to copy that file to another hard drive? So I could record the program, but not make another copy. No?

This kind of restriction would only be enforced on non-FOSS OS's like Windows or OSX
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post #12 of 22 Old 09-24-2011, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I just picked up my new HDHR Prime. 3 tuners via a single input. Works with MythTV -- just need to figure out how to add the third tuner, or update to a very new backend build.

Next step is to get a cablecard.
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post #13 of 22 Old 09-26-2011, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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A couple notes on HDHomeRun Prime:

1. Use a very recent version of mythbackend for HDHR3 support. I was running on Ubuntu Server, which has relatively old .24-fixes builds. Based on some tips from the MythTV wiki, I moved to the Mythbuntu packages, which allow configuration of the 3rd tuner.

2. I have had some recordings start and mysteriously stop ~10 minutes in. Status still shows recording, but it's actually not saving anything. This was with the older backend version, and the new one reportedly addresses HDHR3 issues. So, I'll keep an eye on it.

The Web UI on the new HDHR has more info on tuner status, channel it's tuned to, etc. which is useful.
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post #14 of 22 Old 10-16-2011, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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After a few hiccups, I have my HDHR Prime working, and it is quite good.

- After moving to the newer MythTV build, I don't get any more recording failures.
- My initial HDHR unit was defective, it would not lock on the out-of-band cable info. I RMA'd it, and although it took a week, they got me a replacement unit which works well.
- It took a couple tries to activate the card/unit with Comcast, but relatively quickly it was working and I could view all my encrypted channels.

In the past, I used a previous HDHomerun unit to get my locals via QAM. When doing that, it was relatively difficult to get the channels, frequencies, etc. worked out -- and when Comcast moved channels it got all screwed up.

With the new Prime unit, it is able to get all the channel name and number information from Comcast. So, the channel settings are very easy - it just uses the cable virtual channel number.

Any MythTV users with Cable TV should definitely consider the HDHomerun Prime.
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post #15 of 22 Old 10-17-2011, 07:41 PM
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Glad to hear you have a working solution for Comcast and cable card.

Being able to grab the channel info directly from the cable feed sounds like a huge improvement over the nightmare of frequency/program/xmltvid/mplexid gibberish one currently has to go through to tune Comcast QAM in myth. Is that a feature of the new HDHR, or is that the cable card?

Reason I ask is that, in the ~3 years since Comcast dumped analog in my area, we've gotten quite used to our current diet of "limited basic" ($14/month) clear QAM supplemented with web-based streaming. At this point, I can't really see forking over the additional $50/month for the cheapest cable-card package (since I'm not a "new subscriber"). But if it's the Silicon Dust hardware that now enables the channel identification, I'd definitely consider upgrading my HDHR-
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post #16 of 22 Old 10-18-2011, 12:07 PM
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Scram,

How often did you have to rescan for qam channels with comcast? Are all cable companies similar?

I'm a directv customer for a real long time - last time I had cable it was only analog.

Just curious about this, the prime is interesting but wont happen for me since Im stuck with time warner is I did switch.

Doug
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post #17 of 22 Old 10-18-2011, 05:24 PM
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Doug,

It really depends on your local area, but Comcast can switch channel frequencies/programs at any time without notice. Over the last year I've been fortunate, and it has only happened a couple of times.

Probably the biggest hassle is in the initial setup - manually creating each of the channel entries in the DB, entering the correct frequency and mplexid for each channel, then cross referencing xmltvids against schedules direct to ensure you are getting the correct schedule.
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post #18 of 22 Old 10-21-2011, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scram View Post

Glad to hear you have a working solution for Comcast and cable card.

Being able to grab the channel info directly from the cable feed sounds like a huge improvement over the nightmare of frequency/program/xmltvid/mplexid gibberish one currently has to go through to tune Comcast QAM in myth. Is that a feature of the new HDHR, or is that the cable card?

I'm pretty sure it's a capability that depends on the cablecard. My first unit had a problem with the OOB tuner, and with that I could get several encrypted channels, but I could not get any channel data. Once I got the new unit and the OOB tuner worked right, I was only able to see the channel listing data after the cablecard was activated.

Quote:


Reason I ask is that, in the ~3 years since Comcast dumped analog in my area, we've gotten quite used to our current diet of "limited basic" ($14/month) clear QAM supplemented with web-based streaming. At this point, I can't really see forking over the additional $50/month for the cheapest cable-card package (since I'm not a "new subscriber"). But if it's the Silicon Dust hardware that now enables the channel identification, I'd definitely consider upgrading my HDHR-

Yeah, I was in the same position. OTA channels + Netflix streaming + ESPN3 etc. For me, it was the access to ESPN Monday Night football and college basketball/football games of my school that tipped me over the edge.

The listed upgrades for current subscribers online were crap. So, I stopped in at my local Comcast office one morning and talked to a human being there and found they had several good into options for current subscribers. I got a very complete package, basically everything but HBO/Showtime, for about $30/month more than my Internet-only price.
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post #19 of 22 Old 10-22-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tji View Post

I'm pretty sure it's a capability that depends on the cablecard. My first unit had a problem with the OOB tuner, and with that I could get several encrypted channels, but I could not get any channel data. Once I got the new unit and the OOB tuner worked right, I was only able to see the channel listing data after the cablecard was activated.

Too bad - although at this point I've become fairly facile with the channel DB. But at first, Comcast made it a painful learning experience...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tji View Post

Yeah, I was in the same position. OTA channels + Netflix streaming + ESPN3 etc. For me, it was the access to ESPN Monday Night football and college basketball/football games of my school that tipped me over the edge.

Thanks to Veetle, I never miss a monday night game - but I don't usually see college games there.
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post #20 of 22 Old 10-25-2011, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scram View Post

Thanks to Veetle, I never miss a monday night game - but I don't usually see college games there.

I tried Veetle in the past, and initially it worked well, but lately it's just not worth the hassle. There are a bunch of spam channels trying to get you out to their site, channels will often get cut off in the middle of a game, or if a channel is available the quality is quite low. Also, as a MythTV addict, the inability to record the program and skip commercials is a huge drawback.

I would gladly pay for a la carte streaming from ESPN-HD and a handful of other channels. The technology definitely exists for real-time high quality streaming. But, for now having full MythTV support for most cable channels is a big leap forward.
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post #21 of 22 Old 12-27-2013, 12:55 PM
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Perhaps this would be a better place to post my newbie questions about Homerun HD Prime and Myth TV. Can anyone assist?

> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1508001/homerunhd-prime-dvr-questions


So I said, "Hey! Lama! How 'bout a little something, ya know, for the effort?"

Setup:
Yamaha RX-Z7
Polk Monitor 70s, CS2. FXiA6s, Monitor 30s
Samsung UN55C6800

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post #22 of 22 Old 12-27-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulBrother View Post

Perhaps this would be a better place to post my newbie questions about Homerun HD Prime and Myth TV. Can anyone assist?

> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1508001/homerunhd-prime-dvr-questions

Replied to your other thread. For what you are asking and knowing it'll be installed with DVR and ease of use in mind I'd recommend the following
Extenders and extender pricing
Live TV Setup
HTPC Hardware Guide

Haven't looked at that hardware guide in a while, but if you go that direction just put together a build and ask for critique advice in the HTPC Forum. Explain your intended priorities: DVR, browsing, dvd, blu ray, cd, flac, etc in order
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