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post #1 of 96 Old 09-08-2011, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ub...er/000153.html

Quote:
Ubuntu 11.10 Oneiric Ocelot Released.
Kate Stewart kate.stewart at ubuntu.com
Thu Oct 13 13:15:29 UTC 2011

Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There is nothing like a dream to create the future." - Victor Hugo

The Ubuntu team is pleased to announce Ubuntu 11.10, code-named
"Oneiric Ocelot". 11.10 continues Ubuntu's proud tradition of
integrating the latest and greatest open source technologies
into a high-quality, easy-to-use Linux distribution.

For PC users, Ubuntu 11.10 supports laptops, desktops and netbooks
with a unified look and feel based on an updated version of the
desktop shell called "Unity", which introduces specialized "Lenses".
Finding and installing software using the Ubuntu Software Centre is
now easier thanks to improvements in speed, search functionality
enhancements, and usability improvements. Aside from updates
on the performance side, it's also more aesthetically appealing.

Ubuntu Server 11.10 has made it much easier to provision, deploy,
host, manage, and orchestrate enterprise data centre infrastructure
services with the introduction of "Orchestra". The Juju technical
preview allows service developers to describe the deployment and
scaling requirements of their applications, in order to simplify
and enhance the dialogue between developers and operations teams.
For those working on the ARM architecture, a technical preview is
also provided for the ARM server.

Read more about the new features of Ubuntu 11.10 in the following
press releases:

http://www.canonical.com/content/tra...pc-ubuntu-1110
http://www.canonical.com/content/cli...ce-business-it


Standard maintenance updates will be provided for Ubuntu 11.10 for
18 months, through April 2013.

Thanks to the efforts of the global translation community, Ubuntu
is now available in 38 languages. For a list of available languages
and detailed translation statistics for these and other languages, see:

http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/sta...ion-stats.html


Ubuntu 11.10 is the base for the newest 11.10 iterations of Kubuntu,
Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Mythbuntu, Ubuntu Studio, and our newest addition
to this release cycle, Lubuntu!

Kubuntu: http://kubuntu.org/news/11.10-release
Xubuntu: http://xubuntu.org/news/11.10-release
Edubuntu http://edubuntu.org/news/11.10-release
Mythbuntu: http://mythbuntu.org/11.10/release
Ubuntu Studio: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/11.10release_notes
Lubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Announcement/11.10


Ubuntu 11.10 is also now available on two new ARM community-supported
ports.
AC100 (Toshiba Tegra 2 Netbook): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TEGRA/AC100
MX5 (Freescale i.MX53 QuickStart): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/MX5


To get Ubuntu 11.10
-------------------

In order to download Ubuntu 11.10, visit:

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download


Users of Ubuntu 11.04 will be offered an automatic upgrade to 11.10
via Update Manager. For further information about upgrading, see:

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/upgrade


As always, upgrades to the latest version of Ubuntu are entirely free of
charge.

We recommend that all users read the release notes, which document
caveats, workarounds for known issues, as well as more in-depth notes
on the release itself. They are available at:

http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes


Find out what's new in this release with a graphical overview:

http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/whats-new
http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/features


If you have a question, or if you think you may have found a bug but
aren't sure, you can try asking in any of the following places:

#ubuntu on irc.freenode.net
http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
http://askubuntu.com/


Help Shape Ubuntu
--------------------

If you would like to help shape Ubuntu, take a look at the list
of ways you can participate at:

http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/
Technical Overview/Release Notes
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/ReleaseNotes

Direct Downloads:

32bit Unity/Gnome3
http://ftp.usf.edu/pub/ubuntu-releas...sktop-i386.iso

64bit Unity/Gnome3
http://ubuntu.mirrors.tds.net/pub/re...ktop-amd64.iso

Torrents:

32bit Unity/Gnome3
http://ftp.usf.edu/pub/ubuntu-releas...86.iso.torrent

64bit Unity/Gnome3http://ubuntu.mirrors.tds.net/pub/re...64.iso.torrent

If you've been using the Gnome 2.x desktop up to now (used by default in many common distros prior to mid 2011), I highly recommend switching to the XFCE desktop, used by Xubuntu and Mythbuntu distros. XFCE is built from the same GUI "widget" libraries as Gnome (GTK), so app compatibility and functionality is not an issue.

Xubuntu is simply Ubuntu with the Gnome3/Unity desktops replaced by the XFCE desktop. The kernel (low level OS), drivers and app compatibility (.deb installers, repositories, UbuntuSoftware Center "App Store" ) are the same.

Xubuntu

Quote:
What's new in Xubuntu

Some of the highlights of the 11.10 release include:

gThumb is now in the default Xubuntu 11.10 installation, to help users with image transformations and viewing. The Xubuntu developers wanted to insure an enjoyable, usable operating system. By including gThumb, along with Rhistretto, users have the ability to not only view all images and files, but also to perform minor editing of photos.

leafpad is the new default text editor(was mousepad), and now includes the ability to print.

pastebinit is now included in Xubuntu 11.10 intallations by default. If you need to use http://paste.ubuntu.com/, you can use pastebinit in terminals to paste directly without copying and pasting the data.

LightDM is the new application that manages logins in Xubuntu 11.10.


Updated Applications

Onboard (the onscreen keyboard) is now included in the default Xubuntu menus, under Accessories. For those who require an onscreen keyboard, this will be much easier to access using only a mouse or touchpad.

Xubuntu will continue to use Synaptic Package Manager, yet provides the Ubuntu Software Center for those who prefer it.


Bugs
When using the new plymouth splash screen, occasionally using the desktop cd to install, the message "hit any key to continue" does not appear. Should you get a black screen with text and the sliding throbber, when the throbber stops moving and the cd ejects, remove the cd and hit enter on the keyboard to continue.(872472)

There is no screen title or headings when choosing "Install Xubuntu" from the CD menu (840094)

When Gnome Services is checked, Onboard Keyboard will be started automatically as the user logs in. (872515)
http://xubuntu.org/news/11.10-release


32bit

Direct
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/re...sktop-i386.iso

Torrent
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/re...86.iso.torrent

64bit

Direct
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/re...ktop-amd64.iso

Torrent
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/re...64.iso.torrent

Mythbuntu (Xubuntu+MythTV):

Quote:
Mythbuntu 11.10 Released!news

Mythbuntu 11.10 has been released. With this release, we are providing mirroring on sponsored mirrors and torrents. It is very important to note that this release is only compatible with MythTV 0.24 systems. Previous Mythbuntu releases can be upgraded to a compatible version with the builds located at http://www.mythbuntu.org/repos. For a more detailed explanation, see here.

Changes from Mythbuntu 11.04:

Highlights

MythTV 0.24 (2:0.24.0+fixes.20110908)
Chromium installed instead of Firefox
No Bluetooth support (by default) in Network Manager
No FGLRX install during installation
Mythbuntu-bare scheduling now available for backups
Android and iOS devices can now be used as remote controls
Underlying system
Underlying Ubuntu updates are found here
MythTV
Recent snapshot of the MythTV 0.24 release is included (see 0.24 Release Notes)
Preview of the upcoming MythNetvision plugin.
Mythbuntu theme fixes
32bit
http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/m...sktop-i386.iso

http://www.mythbuntu.org/files/mythb...86.iso.torrent

64bit
http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/m...ktop-amd64.iso

http://www.mythbuntu.org/files/mythb...64.iso.torrent

XFCE

http://www.xfce.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xfce


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post #2 of 96 Old 09-13-2011, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tux99 View Post

It's the first beta, isn't this thread too early?

It might lead newbies into using it for more then just testing, which is not recommended for betas as they are still relatively buggy.

BTW, I'm moving my PCs gradually to ScientificLinux 6 (a Redhat EL6 clone), since I'm fed up of the constant upgrades. SL6 (just like RHEL6 or Centos6) is a long term distro that gets updates and patches for 7 years.

I have even started my own repo of mostly AV-related packages for RHEL6/SL6/Centos6: http://pkgrepo.linuxtech.net/el6/

I prefer to have a stable base (SL6) with the latest apps on top, rather than having to upgrade the whole distro to get the latest apps.
Also SL6 still comes with Gnome 2 rather than the controversial Gnome 3 or that Ubuntu play-desktop.

I usually start the thread about a month before the release- Oneiric is due 10/13/2011.

Yes, any beta software may have issues, regardless of OS, distro or app.

I've been hearing good things about Scientific and Redhat/Fedora based distros in general, which have been my "runner ups" vs Debian based distros.

Distro release timing is a current hot topic on Ubuntu-

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/0...eases-Proposed

http://netsplit.com/2011/09/08/new-u...lease-process/

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20110912#news

I also agree that Linux distros must stop the churn and adopt a longer major release schedule, locking down a stable release for 2-3 years with driver and app backports for that release.

Ubuntu's current approach is close to this with the 2 year LTS cycle and LTS support schedule, but falls short on driver and common/major app backporting to keep drivers and apps up to date if you choose to stay on an LTS release.

Nothing new here- just emulating the Windows/Mac OSX models using Linux/FOSS nomenclature and methods.

You may want to start a new Scientific/Redhat/CentOS thread and I'll ask the mods to move the relevant posts from here to it.

Good to hear the SL6/RHEL6/CentOS6 distros use the backports/patch approach to keep the distro current with new app/driver versions moving forward, without major kernel/desktop changes for a couple years.


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post #3 of 96 Old 09-14-2011, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Ubuntu 11.10 Oneiric Beta 1 Review And Screenshots Tour
http://maketecheasier.com/ubuntu-11-...our/2011/09/05


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post #4 of 96 Old 09-15-2011, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I think this discussion re: Win8 and the new default Metro interface mirrors the Ubuntu/Unity debate very closely-

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/09...dows-8-Roundup

Similar complaints and issues.

Tablet/smartphone full-screen-touch-app-style GUIs are currently in vogue.


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post #5 of 96 Old 09-17-2011, 08:46 AM
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Yeah they sure are RGB. My question is why can't you have separate GUIs for the desktop and tablet market. I know there is a learning curve and people like Unity, but everytime I play with it I get frustrated. Based on your experience with Xubuntu, I will probably give that a try.

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post #6 of 96 Old 09-18-2011, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree that touch interfaces and desktop apps are not mutually exclusive.

I think well designed touch desktop environments/GUIS/DE's/apps are a Good Thing- try Android 3.2 Honeycomb on a recent vintage Tegra2 tablet like the Xoom or Asus/Acer/Samsung Tegra2 Honeycomb tabs. You get used to casual web browsing on them with touch interface very quickly- and I don't mean watered down mobile-only sites, but a full, real web browser and full real sites, the entire web.

Once touch+gesture API's for the major FOSS DE's (Gnome, KDE, Unity, XFCE, etc) are ready for prime time, AND well designed apps and desktop touchpads are available to fully utilize touch/gestures, I think we'll have a good alternative to the 25+ year run of the mouse.

All that is needed is common, low cost multi-touch (3 or more finger capable gestures) pads, but with larger area than those on most common notebooks now. The Apple Magic Trackpad is basically there, from the brief fiddling I've done with it-

http://www.apple.com/magictrackpad/

Appropriate sensors a la the Xbox Kinect (or non-optical sensors) could be alternatives to physical touch input pads for most desktops.


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post #7 of 96 Old 09-18-2011, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

All that is needed is common, low cost multi-touch (3 or more finger capable gestures) pads, but with larger area than those on most common notebooks now. The Apple Magic Trackpad is basically there, from the brief fiddling I've done with it-

No thanks, I have tried all sorts of trackpads, but nothing comes anywhere close to a good mouse when it comes to using a desktop PC. Also big on-screen buttons necessary for touchscreen use are a nuisance for effective productive desktop use (they take away too much screen space), so I too think that desktop GUIs and tablet GUIs cannot be unified (hence Unity is doomed to fail).

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post #8 of 96 Old 09-18-2011, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I think it's still too early to make a judgment call re: the success/failure of touch and gesture interfaces on the desktop.

It's not just about discrete touches and associated targets on the screen- gestures mean that *how* you touch will mean/do something different based on context.

http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/N...erick-Meerkat/

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/Development

Video demo-
http://unity.ubuntu.com/projects/utouch/

Unity Gesture UI Guidelines
https://docs.google.com/View?id=dfkkjjcj_1482g457bcc7

Gesture Engine Interface Support
http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubun...annotated.html

I've seen other demos that I can't locate at the moment, where on-screen controls for apps/GUI objects/widgets only appear (fade onto the screen using compositing effects) when certain touches/gestures are made, relative to the finger location, i.e. absolute GUI targets (size/shape) are irrelevant.

Even though touch interfaces have been common on phones/tabs for several years now, we are still in the very early, relatively primitive stages of the GUI paradigm evolving to touch/gesture UI's, a la the wildly gesticulating Tom Cruise (well, not THAT bad, I hope ) of Minority Report.

My belief is that old skool mouse GUIs and touch/gesture GUI's will coexist, at least for any meaningful amount of time, just as the terminal/commandline coexists quite well with the common mouse oriented apps and desktop environments. Touch/gesture interfaces will be just one higher level of abstraction on top of the mouse interfaces and terminal interfaces below that.

EDIT:

Thin Film Transforms Any Surface Into Touchscreen

Discussion
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/09...to-Touchscreen

Video demos, article
http://singularityhub.com/2011/09/18...itouch-screen/


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post #9 of 96 Old 09-19-2011, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Edited/updated previous post.


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post #10 of 96 Old 09-19-2011, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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...even motherboard BIOs' are going Touch UI-

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3853#ov


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post #11 of 96 Old 09-19-2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

...even motherboard BIOs' are going Touch UI-

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=3853#ov

And that's on a FULL-ATX sized motherboard... I guess that's Taiwanese humor!

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post #12 of 96 Old 09-23-2011, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Updated first post for Oneiric Beta2


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post #13 of 96 Old 10-13-2011, 11:56 AM
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It is out. I downloaded Xubuntu and Kubuntu. I am trying X based on RGBs experience. I am trying K to see if it is any better than when I tried it last time when 4 came out.

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post #14 of 96 Old 10-13-2011, 07:16 PM
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I just got finished installing X on a hard drive. Taking it for a drive right now. It looks very similar to old Gnome or Ubuntu Classic. It seems like this will be a good alternative for those like myself who like the previous versions of Gnome. I bought a Radeon card and will see how good the two match up. One thing I have to add is that the install from my USB stick took almost an hour.

Next up is K.

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post #15 of 96 Old 10-14-2011, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Updated first post with Final release announcements, direct download links, and torrents.

To simplify things and focus efforts, I plan to stick with Xubuntu/Mythbuntu (i.e. the XFCE desktop) vs KDE for the time being.

Perhaps sometime next year once the Unity/Gnome3 dust settles, one or both of those may be worth a look, but by then , XFCE will have been revised and upgraded a couple of times, too.

Another up and coming "old skool" desktop contender is LXDE, used by default in Lubuntu-

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LXDE

http://lxde.org/

Nice to have another backup in case XFCE's head gets too big

The nice thing is that Gnome (2.x series at least)/XFCE/LXDE all use the GTK libraries and app frameworks, so I consider these desktops a related "family".

KDE is QT-centric, and has many other core differences vs the Gnome-XFCE-LXDE family of desktops.


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post #16 of 96 Old 10-14-2011, 05:54 PM
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I am using Kubuntu right now. It is graphically pretty. I think it is even better than Ubuntu. My problem is the same as used to have. I dislike trying to navigate through the desktop.I am going to play with it some more, but I think I am going to go back and play with Xubuntu. ONe definite advantage of X is the Ubuntu Software Center. It is much more polished than Muon on K.

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post #17 of 96 Old 10-14-2011, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

I am using Kubuntu right now. It is graphically pretty. I think it is even better than Ubuntu. My problem is the same as used to have. I dislike trying to navigate through the desktop.I am going to play with it some more, but I think I am going to go back and play with Xubuntu. ONe definite advantage of X is the Ubuntu Software Center. It is much more polished than Muon on K.

Yes, KUbuntu has many high and low level diferences vs X/Ubuntu- Qt vs Gtk core, the network manager applet, software package manager, etc.

Ubuntu and Xubuntu share the same Gtk app framework, Software Center (App Store), network config applet, and most other relevant, commonly used applets we had in Gnome 2.x

The other issue relevant to media PC users is how Kde, Gnome3/Unity and Xfce handle and integrate with Xwindows and the video subsystem.

While I can't articulate specific technical reasons at the moment, my testing with the Unity and Kde flavors of Ubuntu appear to me to handle the display manager and video output significantly different than Gnome 2.3x and Xfce 4.8+, with KDE and Unity relying too heavily on compositing for HTPC use.


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post #18 of 96 Old 10-17-2011, 07:11 PM
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Are you primarily using X? I haven't played with X enough. I think I will shut down and plug that drive in and use it exclusively tomorrow.

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post #19 of 96 Old 10-18-2011, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Are you primarily using X? I haven't played with X enough. I think I will shut down and plug that drive in and use it exclusively tomorrow.

All the major desktops (KDE/Gnome/XFCE/etc) use X- it's the low level window/video handler below the display manager

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_displ...mplementations


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post #20 of 96 Old 10-18-2011, 03:08 PM
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^^^^ I think he meant Xfce based on the abbreviations in his previous post not Xorg.

Anyway, I played around with Xfce a little bit. I'm still limping along with Linux Mint Debian for the moment, but I can't run any updates because anything I try to do wants to pull in a bunch of new GTK crap that'll break some of my apps.

So I need to change in the near future but Xfce has issues with applets that I rely on and I fear what's going to happen when they are forced to start using GTK3 libraries. I don't want to be stuck not being able to apply updates like I am now.
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post #21 of 96 Old 10-18-2011, 09:14 PM
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Mac is correct. I meant Xubuntu.

I played with Xubuntu some more and like it, but I think I really like having a taskbar at the bottom to display open programs and folders with the main taskbar on top. I also like having separate menus on top for Applications, Places and System. This seems quicker to navigate than Unity's dock. I could probably live with X's dock if I had to.

I decided to download Gnome on Xubuntu and play around with that. I am not sure if you can do that with the main Ubuntu or not. I did not play with Gnome 3, but instead used the Gnome Classic. I liked it and could probably live with this version as well. It seems a little more limited in modifying the desktop than Ubuntu Classic, but that may be because I did not delve into far enough.

I was talking to my best friend today, who programs in the Unity game engine for iOS and Android. He has a couple of Apple devices and his wife's Mac along with his Windows machine. I asked him if I was being conservative and a luddite for not jumping on the bandwagon. His reply was that he sees some minor things that look or work better and others that seem out of place or are frustrating. He doesn't see any of the new interfaces as better just different, which is how I see them. I guess when someone comes up with truly innovative and superior computing experience then I will be game. For me, Unity and Gnome 3 aren't it. I should add that I just read that KDE is going to have a separate desktop and mobile interface.

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post #22 of 96 Old 10-19-2011, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Mac is correct. I meant Xubuntu.

I played with Xubuntu some more and like it, but I think I really like having a taskbar at the bottom to display open programs and folders with the main taskbar on top. I also like having separate menus on top for Applications, Places and System. This seems quicker to navigate than Unity's dock. I could probably live with X's dock if I had to.

I decided to download Gnome on Xubuntu and play around with that. I am not sure if you can do that with the main Ubuntu or not. I did not play with Gnome 3, but instead used the Gnome Classic. I liked it and could probably live with this version as well. It seems a little more limited in modifying the desktop than Ubuntu Classic, but that may be because I did not delve into far enough.

I was talking to my best friend today, who programs in the Unity game engine for iOS and Android. He has a couple of Apple devices and his wife's Mac along with his Windows machine. I asked him if I was being conservative and a luddite for not jumping on the bandwagon. His reply was that he sees some minor things that look or work better and others that seem out of place or are frustrating. He doesn't see any of the new interfaces as better just different, which is how I see them. I guess when someone comes up with truly innovative and superior computing experience then I will be game. For me, Unity and Gnome 3 aren't it. I should add that I just read that KDE is going to have a separate desktop and mobile interface.

Yes, I plan to use XFCE/Xubuntu/Mythbuntu moving forward probably at least until sometime after the next LTS release in April 2012.

It is trivial to make the layout of XFCE/Xubuntu similar to Gnome 2.3x with a few right mouse clicks:

- remove the default auto-hiding panel on the bottom
- add a new panel on the bottom
- add the window list applet to the newly created bottom panel (and trash and Show Desktop icons if you want)
- add xfce4-places-plugin to get the Places menu.

All the old Gnome System menu stuff is already under the XCFE main menu, or add another XFCE main menu and edit it down to contain only the System stuff and rename it "System", then you'll have the three separate menus again (With Places).

HOWTO edit XFCE menus-
http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu

MacTheKnife-

What applets are you referring to? Are you sure there aren't XFCE or generic GTK equivalents already?

http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/start

You can use Gnome panel applets using xfce4-xfapplet-plugin

http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/pan...fapplet-plugin

Quote:


The XfApplet Plugin is a plugin for the Xfce 4 Panel which allows one to use applets designed for the Gnome Panel inside the Xfce Panel. You can think of XfApplet as a tiny Gnome Panel that lives inside the Xfce Panel and allows you to show the same applets that the Gnome Panel is capable of showing.
The current stable version of the XfApplet Plugin has the following features:
Most Gnome applets are supported. Basically the only exceptions are the Gnome Systray and Window List applets, which should be considered not very well supported. This should be fixed in the next stable version;The XfApplet properties dialog allows you to choose between all Gnome applets currently installed, just as the Gnome Panel does.The XfApplet context menu shows both the Xfce Panel related items (such as “Move”, “Remove”, “Customize Panel”, etc.) and the Gnome applet ones, which of course will depend on the specific applet being displayed.Applets are displayed correctly in terms of layout, popup menus and other issues no matter the Xfce Panel specific configuration such as position (top, bottom, left or right side and floating) and size.By now you may be wondering: why would someone write XfApplet? The motivations for both starting and maintaining this project can be resumed as follows:
Olivier Fourdan (Xfce project leader) was asked in his interview in FOSDEM 2005 about the possibility of integration between the Gnome Panel applets and the Xfce Panel. His answer stated that (by that time) the Xfce Panel did not support stand alone applets such as the Gnome Panel, but instead one could write a plugin for the Xfce Panel that was capable of showing Gnome applets.Software reusability is very common in FOSS projects, especially in code level. XfApplet allows for reusability in component level by linking against the Bonobo infra-structure and the Xfce Panel libraries. So there's no need to rewrite every single Gnome applet against Xfce libraries; all of them can be used out of the box from within both the Xfce and Gnome panels.Many new Xfce users come from Gnome or at least have a good Gnome experience. The possibility of using Gnome applets inside the Xfce Panel makes the experience of moving from Gnome to Xfce or even using both desktop environments easier.

I think KDE's separation into Desktop, Netbook and Mobile (touch-centric scalable) interfaces is the Right Way (at least for the near term 2-3 year horizon), and I suspect a lot of us may be using KDE 4.8+ sometime next year

Plasma Contour appears very Win8 Metro/Android 3.x-like-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Plasma_Workspaces

The KDE team appears to Get It- i.e. that one interface does not suit all usage scenarios. I think the Gnome 3+ team will come around eventually and split up their UI into a Desktop and touch/mobile interface, too.

In the meantime, we need a more stable desktop environment with established community support and Gnome 2.3x level functionality, and XFCE fits the bill.


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post #23 of 96 Old 10-19-2011, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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More KDE Plasma Active (Contour) info-

http://www.kde.org/announcements/plasma-active-one/

Quote:


The KDE team has announced the availability of Plasma Active One. While the GNOME project has decided to rework their entire desktop in order to address tablets and touch screens, the KDE project is taking a different approach. The KDE4 desktop will remain as it is and a branch of KDE is being designed specifically for mobile devices

Quote:


Plasma Active is compatible with the Plasma Desktop and Plasma Netbook Workspaces. They are all based on the same framework, sharing more than 95% of code. This is a radically different approach to interface commonality across devices. Most other tablet products are either unique to themselves (sharing little or nothing in common with other device interfaces), or attempts to use desktop interfaces on smaller displays. But Plasma-based interfaces are crafted for specific device types, and are able to do so while having nearly all their code and engineering efforts in common



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post #24 of 96 Old 10-19-2011, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

Yes, I plan to use XFCE/Xubuntu/Mythbuntu moving forward probably at least until sometime after the next LTS release in April 2012.

It is trivial to make the layout of XFCE/Xubuntu similar to Gnome 2.3x:

- remove the default auto-hiding panel on the bottom
- add a new panel on the bottom
- add the window list applet to the newly created bottom panel (and trash and Show Desktop icons if you want)
- add xfce4-places-plugin to get the Places menu.

All the System menu stuff is already under the main XCFE programs main menu, or add another XFCE main menu and edit it down to contain only the System stuff, then you'll have the three separate menus again (With Places).


HOWTO edit XFCE menus-
http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu

Hmmm. Between this and what Eric said about the panels, it sounds like Xubuntu radically messes with the standard Xfce desktop. For the record, I've been playing around with Mint Xfce.

Eric if you want a more standard Xfce desktop that takes less configuration to get it close to Gnome2, they you might want to try Mint Xfce, but be aware that it's Debian-based like LMDE not Ubuntu-based like the main Mint distro.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

MacTheKnife-

What applets are you referring to? Are you sure there aren't XFCE or generic GTK equivalents already?

http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/start

You can use Gnome panel applets using xfce4-xfapplet-plugin

http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/pan...fapplet-plugin



....

Yeah, I was aware of the first link you posted. But the applets tend to be half-baked and missing features that I use and IIRC I couldn't find a "backlight brightness" control which I heavily rely upop on my laptop.

I wasn't aware of the second link, I'll have to look into that ans see if it solves my applet issues.

But, I'm still having motivation issues because I'm concerned about what happens when Xfce eventually is forced to move to GTK3 libraries and if KDE is going to a Metro style interface that rules them out too.

I don't want my desktop and laptop looking and performing like a frigging little cellphone or tablet. I NEVER full-screen any app even on my 14" laptop let alone on a 20+" edsktop and I absolutely despise screens filled full of icons so I never put any icon-based launchers on my desktop and I NEVER use text-based launchers such as Gnome-do. I hate everything about these frigging touch-based paradigms that they're trying to ram down my throat. [apologies for the rant]
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post #25 of 96 Old 10-19-2011, 09:42 PM
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Thanks RGB. I have been playing around reconfiguring Xubuntu. I will mess with it some more tomorrow along with Gnome Classic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

Hmmm. Between this and what Eric said about the panels, it sounds like Xubuntu radically messes with the standard Xfce desktop. For the record, I've been playing around with Mint Xfce.

Eric if you want a more standard Xfce desktop that takes less configuration to get it close to Gnome2, they you might want to try Mint Xfce, but be aware that it's Debian-based like LMDE not Ubuntu-based like the main Mint distro.

I have thought about it. I tried Mint a couple of years ago and preferred regular Ubuntu. I will download it tomorrow.

Quote:


Yeah, I was aware of the first link you posted. But the applets tend to be half-baked and missing features that I use and IIRC I couldn't find a "backlight brightness" control which I heavily rely upop on my laptop.

I wasn't aware of the second link, I'll have to look into that ans see if it solves my applet issues.

But, I'm still having motivation issues because I'm concerned about what happens when Xfce eventually is forced to move to GTK3 libraries and if KDE is going to a Metro style interface that rules them out too.

I don't want my desktop and laptop looking and performing like a frigging little cellphone or tablet. I NEVER full-screen any app even on my 14" laptop let alone on a 20+" edsktop and I absolutely despise screens filled full of icons so I never put any icon-based launchers on my desktop and I NEVER use text-based launchers such as Gnome-do. I hate everything about these frigging touch-based paradigms that they're trying to ram down my throat. [apologies for the rant]

Like RGB and I said, it looks like KDE is splitting the desktop and netbook/tablet in two. Hopefully the desktop will stay more or less the same.

As for your rant, I am glad I am not alone. I am curious if the people developing these new GUIs ever use them on the desktop. Tonight I have switched between Gnome Classic, Gnome 3, Xfce, newest Ubuntu (?) and Xubuntu. I am not sure if the Ubuntu in the Xubuntu menu is full Unity or not, but I definitely liked it less than Gnome 3. Gnome 3 was less annoying but still not much better. XFCE and Xubuntu are roughly the same except Xubuntu seems like it has a little more polished look. Gnome Classic looks more polished than the Xs, but there is just something about it that bugs me. I will give these some more time, but I have a feeling I will go back to Ubuntu Classic 11.04.

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post #26 of 96 Old 10-20-2011, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm. Between this and what Eric said about the panels, it sounds like Xubuntu radically messes with the standard Xfce desktop. For the record, I've been playing around with Mint Xfce.

"Radically"? It is embarassingly trivial to change things like panel layouts. Especially for anyone who can install an OS from an install CD

Quote:


But, I'm still having motivation issues because I'm concerned about what happens when Xfce eventually is forced to move to GTK3 libraries and if KDE is going to a Metro style interface that rules them out too.

The KDE Desktop is NOT going to a Metro (tablet) style interface. The KDE team is keeping the desktop as is and branching a separate size-independant touch interface style GUI for tablets, phones, etc.

I think KDE will be a good alternative by next Summer or so. I will experiment with KDE 4.7+ distros (Kubuntu, Mint, etc) this fall and winter.

re: GTK3

I think by the time GTK3/Gnome3 stabilizes, it will be worthwhile for the other GTK based desktops (XFCE, LXDE) to move to it, as GTK3 integrates openGL functionality and multitouch, important for apps/UI's moving forward.


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post #27 of 96 Old 10-20-2011, 09:43 AM
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I hope I didn't mislead anyone. I don't think Xubuntu radically messes with XFCE. It is changed, but like RGB said it would be trivial to change it.


I want to thank RGB for getting me to start playing with desktop settings. I have made Gnome Classic and Xubuntu look relatively close to what I like. I still prefer the look of Ubuntu Classic from 11.04 right now, but that may change. I would like to get the clock in Gnome Classic to stay on all the time instead of needing the mouse to highlight it. Right now I am using Kubuntu and have started to modify it and may end up liking this look better than the other two. Fortunately, I found where I could change the Applications Launcher to Applications Launcher Menu. Now, Kubuntu almost feels right. I am going to hold off on Mint, as I want to install my new mobo today.

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post #28 of 96 Old 10-24-2011, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Decent overview/review of Ubuntu and Kubuntu 11.10-

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20111024#news

Also, good news on the KDE/Qt front-

Quote:
The Qt cross-platform framework for developing applications took a big step last week into being a truly free and community run open source project. Qt, which is owned by Nokia and which forms the base for KDE, is getting a new home. Lars Knoll posted on the Qt Labs blog, "I'm happy to announce that the Qt Project officially went live today. Starting today, development of Qt will be governed as a true open source project." He goes on to report Qt will be open to any and all contributors, "All development will happen in one central location, with access for everyone at the same time. No more separate code flow for `Nokians vs others', and no more time delays! What you see is what we see. Discussions, decisions and roadmapping will all happen in the community, by the community, for the community." The new Qt Project means developers outside of Nokia, such as KDE coders, should be able to get their patches into Qt in a timely manner.

The Distrowatch review appears to be positive about both KDE 4.7 and Unity in 11.10. Curious the review didn't include at least Xubuntu/XFCE

So, among XFCE 4.8+, KDE 4.7+, the full FOSS-ification of Qt (the app/GUI API used by KDE) and the continued refinement of Unity and Gnome3 (not even counting LXDE, E17, etc), I think there's plenty of options and a way forward for anyone, even die hard Gnome 2.x users.

Seriously, if a whiny Gnome 2.x user can't find a desktop/GUI they like with all the choices in FOSS land, they REALLY need to get out of the proverbial parent's basement


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post #29 of 96 Old 10-24-2011, 08:31 PM
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I guess I am the whiny Gnome Classic user.

It was a good review and I especially like the fact that he did a fresh install and a virtual install. I have said it before and I will say it again. If you are a reviewer, then do a fresh install. I don't want to hear how you had problems installing in Virtualwhatever on your Mac or Windows box. I agree that the weak link in Kubuntu is the software center. Put the new software center on Kubuntu and it may be a slam dunk. It looks as if Jesse is going to make Kubuntu his new main OS.

As for Xubuntu, he mentioned that he was going to do the Kubuntu review originally at a later date. Maybe he will do Xubuntu in a month or so.

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post #30 of 96 Old 10-25-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

I guess I am the whiny Gnome Classic user.

....

You and me and Linus Torvalds.

Linus Torvalds dubs GNOME 3 'unholy mess'


I'd love to see RGB tell Linus to "get out of his mother's basement" to Linus' face.
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