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post #1 of 36 Old 04-17-2012, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thread to discuss Fedora 17 and binary app/driver compatible derivatives of F17

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=fedora

http://distrowatch.com/search.php?os...&status=Active

http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora

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Robyn Bergeron has announced the release of Fedora 17, the latest stable version of the Red Hat-sponsored community distribution of Linux: "The 'Beefy Miracle' hath arrived. We believe this is the beefiest release ever - chock full of features to customize your experience to your tastes. On the desktop, GNOME 3.4 introduces new search capabilities in the activities overview, improved themes, and enhancements to the Documents and Contacts applications. A new application, GNOME-boxes, provides easy access to virtual machines. Additionally, GIMP 2.8 brings new improvements, such as single-window mode, layer groups, and on-canvas editing."

Release Announcement
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F17_release_announcement

Release Notes
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/...Release_Notes/

Downloads
http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora-options




32bit Gnome3
http://download.fedoraproject.org/pu...ve-Desktop.iso
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/tor...6-Live.torrent

32bit KDE
http://download.fedoraproject.org/pu...6-Live-KDE.iso
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/tor...ve-KDE.torrent

64bit Gnome3
http://download.fedoraproject.org/pu...ve-Desktop.iso
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/tor...4-Live.torrent

64bit KDE
http://download.fedoraproject.org/pu...4-Live-KDE.iso
http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/tor...ve-KDE.torrent

Features
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/17/FeatureList

Looking forward to seeing posts using F17 for HTPC...
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post #2 of 36 Old 04-17-2012, 02:54 PM
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You never sausage a great array of development tools!

The PR person who wrote this must have really been hungry.
Do you think they meant "You never saw such..."?

If I get a Fedora 17 HTPC up and running anytime soon, I'll let you know.
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post #3 of 36 Old 04-17-2012, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil L View Post

The PR person who wrote this must have really been hungry.
Do you think they meant "You never saw such..."?

If I get a Fedora 17 HTPC up and running anytime soon, I'll let you know.

Sounds like it'll be a meaty discussion
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post #4 of 36 Old 04-18-2012, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Distros derived from Fedora that may make a better base for a HTPC due to included media related apps, tweaks, and drivers.

I assume all of these are binary package and repository compatible but have not verified myself.

It appears the first three are analogous to the Mint/Ubuntu relationship, with perhaps even less differences and fewer customizations from the base, Fedora in this case.

Fusion
http://fusionlinux.org/

Quote:


Fusion Linux is a completely free and open-source, Linux based operating system and a Fedora Remix. It is an installable Live DVD/USB image that includes multimedia functionality out of the box with added desktop tweaks for better usability and additional software. The Live image can be installed to your hard disk. Fusion Linux is 100% compatible with Fedora, and includes packages from Fedora and RPM Fusion software repositories with some additional custom packages.

Kororaa

https://kororaa.org/

Quote:


The main goal of Kororaa is to provide a complete, easy to use system for general computing which is assisted by the following:

Support for as much hardware as possible
End user desired applications as defaults (e.g. Firefox over Konqueror)
Ability to play all media out of the box using free software (with Flash the exception)
Ability to use Flash on the web (installable, if the user wants)
Target specific applications for tasks without a lot of bloat
Provide simple means to getting support
Provide howtos, guides, on how to use the system
Build a little community of Linux users

Hanthana
http://www.hanthana.org/screenshots.php

Quote:


Hanthana has all the features of Fedora and loads of additional software including multimedia players and codecs by default. In short, Hanthana is ready to serve your office, multimedia, graphic, educational and entertainment needs immediately after installation!


This one used to be derived directly from Fedora (like Mint from Ubuntu), but is now a fork of Fedora:

Fuduntu

http://www.fuduntu.org/

Quote:


Fuduntu is a light hearted and fun Linux distribution that earns its name by its design to fit somewhere in-between Fedora and Ubuntu. It is designed to be aesthetically pleasing, and is optimized for Netbook and other portable computers. Fuduntu isn't limited to portable computers however, it is a fantastic desktop distribution too!

The Fuduntu Difference:
The latest stable Linux Kernel 3.2.14-1
Aesthetically pleasing design
Unbelievable Performance
Unparalleled battery life

More Fedora derived/compatible distros-

http://distrowatch.com/search.php?os...&status=Active
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post #5 of 36 Old 04-18-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil L View Post

The PR person who wrote this must have really been hungry.
Do you think they meant "You never saw such..."?

If I get a Fedora 17 HTPC up and running anytime soon, I'll let you know.


I assumed that they were making a pun based on Fedore 17's code name being "Beefy Miracle". Notice the pun on "meet" in this posting: Meat the Beefy Miracle

And the Logo:
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post #6 of 36 Old 04-19-2012, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quite appropos, given my now standard low carb/added sugars, meat (good protein/fats) heavy diet. Having lost 85+ lbs (considered lean/"skinny" now) the past 2 years, Atkins was right

Just eat like we all did thousands of years ago, and you're good to go-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

though I disagree with the no dairy/legumes points.

Back on topic, please post other Fedora binary/driver/repo compatible distros appropriate for HTPC use I may have missed.
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post #7 of 36 Old 04-19-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

Quite appropos, given my now standard low carb/added sugars, meat (good protein/fats) heavy diet. Having lost 85+ lbs the past 2 years, Atkins was right

Just eat like we all did thousands of years ago, and you're good to go-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet

Thousands of years ago people would have meat once or twice a week if they were lucky. Compensating starches with loads of meat (especially if it's not from organic grass fed animals, but rather from animals corn fed and pumped up with hormones and antibiotics) will make you sick long term too.

Staple foods (as eaten thousands of years ago) would be primarily fruit, berries, vegetables (including starchy roots as they are filling) and plenty nuts (proteins+good fats), meat would only be an occasional treat.

But the main point to stay healthy IMHO is to avoid everything processed, food should be in a as natural state as possible.

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post #8 of 36 Old 04-19-2012, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tux99 View Post

Thousands of years ago people would have meat once or twice a week if they were lucky. Compensating starches with loads of meat (especially if it's not from organic grass fed animals, but rather from animals corn fed and pumped up with hormones and antibiotics) will make you sick long term too.

Staple foods (as eaten thousands of years ago) would be primarily fruit, berries, vegetables (including starchy roots as they are filling) and plenty nuts (proteins+good fats), meat would only be an occasional treat.

But the main point to stay healthy IMHO is to avoid everything processed, food should be in a as natural state as possible.

Not to stay off topic, and this will be my last comment on the subject, but the animal/plant ratio is debated among Paleo/Atkins eaters. I suspect that different human groups ate different proportions depending on the time of year and where they lived/evolved geographically. For example, fruits/berries and other seasonal produce were probably only eaten at the time of harvest in season, unless they sun-dried fruits/berries/veggies for later consumption. Studies of current hunter/gatherer groups worldwide appear to indicate high seafood protein consumption and/or small game (birds, rabbits, reptiles, insects, etc) in lieu of the less often "big kill" (deer, etc). For example, current Inuit ("eskimos") eat like their forebears did- very high protein/animal fats- seafood, seals, whales, etc- little plants, assuming traditional groups uncontaminated by modern processed and junk foods.

It's probably safe to assume that plants were a significant food source for many evolutionary ancestors, including starchy veggies and legumes. Moving forward, I may adjust my animal/plant ratio in favor of plants.

Luckily, chicken eggs are required to be hormone free in the US and are easy to get with Omega 3 from organic plant fed chickens for little cost premium at local supermarkets, an alternative to high cost grass fed organic beef as an animal protein source with omega3.

Yes, the most natural state and least processed food is of course most desirable, as we've all been told most of our lives and is basic common sense from an evolutionary, genetic ancestry viewpoint.

Nothing really to debate- just eat what those in the Blue Zones eat to minimize risk of chronic aliments and maximize lifespan-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Zone

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_buettne...to_be_100.html

with the total food volume staying within your upper daily calorie budget

http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/hackdiet.html

Stick with low glycemic foods to reduce/eliminate cravings/binges and stop insulin spikes triggering fat storage-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index

http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm

...now if I could only kick the diet soda habit- a ridiculous chemical cocktail. But Pepsi Max, Diet Cherry Pepsi and Mello Yello Zero are tough to kick

EDIT: In support of meaty diet-

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/...ryId=128849908

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/stor...bigger-brains/

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/relea...-14-1999a.html

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/6549.html

http://www.nasw.org/eating-meat-drov...powerful-brain
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post #9 of 36 Old 04-25-2012, 08:23 AM
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I just installed and tweaked Fedora 16 as a HTPC, and I really don't want to do it all over again. But since Fedora 17 is still in beta, I won't even think about installing it.

Since I seem to be one of the very few using Fedora as a HTPC, I will post a few of the tweaks that I made. to Fedora 16.
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post #10 of 36 Old 04-25-2012, 08:42 AM
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There is no option to completely disable all screen blanking in Fedora/Gnome 3. You have to use terminal commands, but they don't persist after a reboot. The solution is to create a script that will do it.

First, to be able to run applications with root privileges, install the beesu app. It is similar to the gksu app in Ubuntu. Also install dconf-editor:
Code:
sudo yum install beesu dconf-editor
Use it to create a new file with gedit:
Code:
beesu gedit
insert this into the new file:
Code:
#!/bin/sh

xset -dpms
Save it as: /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/xset-dpms.sh

Then make it executable:
Code:
sudo chmod a+x /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/xset-dpms.sh
Open dconf-editor and go to:

org-->gnome-->desktop-->screensaver

Disable the option "idle-activation-enabled" (uncheck it).

I had first also ran some "setterm" commands. Since this didn't disable the screen blanking, I don't know if they are still needed. But here they are, just in case:
Code:
setterm -blank 0
setterm -powerdown 0
setterm -powersave 0
A reboot would be needed to check if the script is working. To check the current screensaver and dpms settings run this command:
Code:
xset -q
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post #11 of 36 Old 04-26-2012, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post

There is no option to completely disable all screen blanking in Fedora/Gnome 3.

Wow. I assume it's the fault of Gnome3 and not Fedora.

Amazing the design issues with Gnome3...
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post #12 of 36 Old 04-26-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

Wow. I assume it's the fault of Gnome3 and not Fedora.

Amazing the design issues with Gnome3...

I just noticed a setting, under the "Power" settings, to not suspend when inactive. Maybe this is the setting, and I missed it.
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post #13 of 36 Old 04-26-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post

I just noticed a setting, under the "Power" settings, to not suspend when inactive. Maybe this is the setting, and I missed it.

Nope, an hour later and my laptop (Fedora 16) screen blanked out. Not a problem on a laptop, but not wanted on a HTPC.
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post #14 of 36 Old 04-26-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

Wow. I assume it's the fault of Gnome3 and not Fedora.

Amazing the design issues with Gnome3...

I really wish I could just ignore this. I don't like being the official forum ranter. But this brings up a point about the current Gnome team that needs to be said, because the Gnome team is completely drunk with power and needs a serious smack down. Heck I'll even put it in spoiler tabs so that anyone who doesn't care can easily ignore it.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

It's not a design issue, it's intentional.

The arrogant Gnome 3 developers have decided that they are going to enforce power savings on everybody and not give anyone the option to decide what works best for themselves.

This is the same design decision that resulted in screensavers no longer being officially supported in Gnome 3. The Gnome 3 d*ckheads decided that they were a waste of energy and that all screens should just go into their power-saving backlight-off-mode instead.

They've become religious zealots on the power issue (in addition to a bunch of other UI issues) and have decided to enforce it by refusing to provide any features that would make it convenient for users to override their decisions.
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post #15 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

I really wish I could just ignore this. I don't like being the official forum ranter. But this brings up a point about the current Gnome team that needs to be said, because the Gnome team is completely drunk with power and needs a serious smack down. Heck I'll even put it in spoiler tabs so that anyone who doesn't care can easily ignore it.

When their user base has shrunk to just themselves and their close relatives then they will realise they made a mistake...

Fortunately every major Linux distro has plenty of alternative desktop environments to choose from!

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post #16 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 09:36 AM
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Wow, Mac do you feel strongly about this.

I think it is only a matter of time till Cinnamon, Mate, XFCE, LXDE, etc become suitable replacements if one is not happy with Gnome. That doesn't even include KDE which already is. I am thinking of going the Kubuntu route this time to try it on for size.

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post #17 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

a point about the current Gnome team that needs to be said, because the Gnome team is completely drunk with power and needs a serious smack down....It's not a design issue, it's intentional....The arrogant Gnome 3 developers have decided that they are going to enforce ... on everybody and not give anyone the option to decide what works best for themselves....They've become religious zealots on the ... issue ... and have decided to enforce it by refusing to provide any features that would make it convenient for users to override their decisions.

It should be noted that the sentiment of what you've described is not only contained to the Gnome desktop. KDE 4 and the whole Akonadi and Semantic Desktop / Nepomuk stuff follows a similar disturbing pattern.

I "get" the point for having the Akonadi framework -- it essentially boils down to design eloquence and efficiency -- and I like that. But the progression and implementation towards that end goad has been disastrous on so many levels (communication of what is going on; abundantly obvious that code was everything but production ready yet still gets included into releases, consequently seriously breaking and/or disrupting PIM apps, blah blah blah). Seemed to me that a top down approach was employed (i.e stick fingers in ears and repeat out loud a piercing "lalalalallaalalalallala", while pushing immature code through until it is finally production ready ... everyone else be damned in the meantime). The Nepomuk stuff (Nepomuk, Virtuoso, Soprano, Stringi, Semantic Desktop) ? Bah -- the Nepomuk "technology" was spawn from EU funding -- on a personal note, I think that explains a lot LOL (i.e. think son of Frankenstein). Why KDE thought it so necessary to integrate this crap (and in the manner that they have) is seriously beyond me. :scratch:
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post #18 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 11:43 AM
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It should be noted that the sentiment of what you've described is not only contained to the Gnome desktop. KDE 4 and the whole Akonadi and Semantic Desktop / Nepomuk stuff follows a similar disturbing pattern.

Exactly I was about to reply that to Ericglo. KDE4 was bearable around version 4.5 but more recent releases have become so bloated that they require two cpu cores just to run the desktop...

The KDE devs clearly think that people use they computers just to play around with the desktop rather than actually run real applications to do work.

So on the one hand we have Gnome going ultra minimalist while on the other hand we have KDE going for full fat bloat. None of the two are usable desktops.

I stick with KDE 3.5 (and its actively maintained TDE fork) as that's the best, most practical desktop ever done.

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post #19 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 02:43 PM
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Installing Trinity right now. I am going to check it out.

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post #20 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Installing Trinity right now. I am going to check it out.

What's "Trinity"? A religious based distro?
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post #21 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 04:56 PM
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What's "Trinity"? A religious based distro?

KDE releases ... stable snapshots will be given names like Trinity, Holy Spirit, Covenant, ... while unstable releases are labeled the likes of Beelzebub, Cthulhu, Balrog ....

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity...ent%29#Trinity

A nice little summary of desktops is given here:
-http://Jeffhoogland.blogspot.ca/2011...-round-up.html
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post #22 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 05:11 PM
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I thought that maybe he was referring to the KDE 3.5 fork:

http://trinitydesktop.org/about.php
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post #23 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tux99 View Post

KDE4 was bearable around version 4.5 but more recent releases have become so bloated that they require two cpu cores just to run the desktop... ...

I run 4.8.2 and like it quite a bit and find it very usable provided you disable DE, the nepo-akon-crap, and don't attempt to use the KDE PIM apps. one can get a really nice desktop IMO.


Re: Desktop Effects -- perhaps in the near future, when I upgrade to newer system hardware , I'll leave them on. Right now, after giving them a good test a short while back, for me, mainly given my current hardware, there are a few things that cause some minor but noticeable performance degradation at spots... plus I've come across a few bugs affecting stuff in the multimedia arena. Getting close, but still not quite there. But on the other hand, its ridiculous the amount of fire power they require to run.

Re Akonadi and the KDE PIM apps -- still quite buggy, if not outright broken in some cases. For the time being just don't use them (and use available alternatives instead (i.e. Thunderbird vs. Kmail2, etc.).

Actually, the whole borked Kmail2 disaster is a great example of the perils of tying oneself to one vendor (i.e less robust and more prone to risk!) ... the same could be said of locking yourself into an email address with your ISP.
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post #24 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 10:07 PM
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I tried installing Trinity on Ubuntu and it didn't work. Not going to sweat it.

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post #25 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

I tried installing Trinity on Ubuntu and it didn't work. Not going to sweat it.

Hmm, Ubuntu is their dev platform so it's what they test it on most, there must be something specific on your install that caused this. Or was it 12.04? I don't think they have released packages compatible with 12.04 yet.

It works great on my Centos6 box!

I know you said your aren't going to sweat it but maybe try it again in a bit when they release the packages for 12.04.

BTW, it's called Trinity as a trinity means 3, to symbolise that it's derived from KDE3.

There are some older live CD images available for anyone who wants to test TDE without installation hassle:
http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/cdimages/

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post #26 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 09:42 AM
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I am using 11.10. I was going to give it a go on Kubuntu, but as I stated in the other thread I can't get my Nviida card to work.

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post #27 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
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I am using 11.10. I was going to give it a go on Kubuntu, but as I stated in the other thread I can't get my Nviida card to work.

Ahh, that's probably why, you should try it on plain Ubuntu as Kubuntu installs KDE4 and TDE and KDE4 don't go well along installed together. The Nvidia problem shouldn't be related to the DE.

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post #28 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 11:55 AM
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Are you installing the nVidia driver via a repository or using the driver downloaded from nVidia?

I always use the driver downloaded from nVidia. Recent installations of Linux have proven to be more difficult as to installing the downloaded driver. Since Linus deemed that we should be using the nouveau driver instead of the proprietary nvidia driver, you now have to do an extra step. After blacklisting the nouveau driver, you then must recreate the /boot/initramfs file for the kernel. Here is a good how-to:

http://www.if-not-true-then-false.co...ouveau-driver/
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post #29 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 12:42 PM
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I booted my Fedora HTPC to check that I was giving the correct advice, and it won't boot! I shut it down last night, because it is a quad core and not exactly a power-miser. I was watching some streaming media before that, so I know it was working.

I can't even Fn into a different tty. I removed "quiet" and "rhgb" from the kernel boot parameters, but I still don't get a desktop. Or any message telling me what the problem is.

If I have to reinstall, I doubt that it would be Fedora. What's left, Magela?
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post #30 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tux99 View Post

Ahh, that's probably why, you should try it on plain Ubuntu as Kubuntu installs KDE4 and TDE and KDE4 don't go well along installed together. The Nvidia problem shouldn't be related to the DE.

No, this is regular Ubuntu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post

Are you installing the nVidia driver via a repository or using the driver downloaded from nVidia?

I always use the driver downloaded from nVidia. Recent installations of Linux have proven to be more difficult as to installing the downloaded driver. Since Linus deemed that we should be using the nouveau driver instead of the proprietary nvidia driver, you now have to do an extra step. After blacklisting the nouveau driver, you then must recreate the /boot/initramfs file for the kernel. Here is a good how-to:

http://www.if-not-true-then-false.co...ouveau-driver/

Thanks, I will take a look. I actually had it working and then when I restarted the computer it was gone. I don't want to continue discussing Kubuntu in the Fedora thread, so I will move it over there.

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