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post #31 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Though this was not directed to me, if I knew anyone who still used XP as a computer (and not just a browser) I'd hands down recommend Mint Cinammon as their upgrade path. I use it myself after having tried Mint Cinnamon, KDE, and XFCE as well as Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, and vanilla-Ubuntu dekstops. I haven't gotten into arch just yet, but manjaro looks promising

When Mint 17 is released based on Ubuntu 14.04 (LTS), I will probably update the original post to offer it as an option. The short support lifecycle of Mint 16 was the reason it was removed, since the point of XP migration is the *lack* of XP support. Mint 16 has a very short support cyle as mentioned earlier.

Looks like Mint may be changing their support strategy and what version(s) of Ubuntu they will be built from, I think for the better-

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Next-Three-Linux-Mint-Releases-After-quot-Qiana-quot-to-Be-Based-on-Ubuntu-14-04-LTS-433717.shtml

In the early days of Ubuntu/Mint ~2006-2010, the 6 month release cycle may have been beneficial in implementing and testing new API's, drivers, etc rapidly.

But I think the consensus is converging that 6 months is too often for distro releases. IMO, one release a year should be sufficient, assuming diligent app and driver backporting between releases. Keep the 2 year LTS with one release in between similar to current 6 month releases, and/or analogous to a "service pack" SP1/SP2/SPx release that Windows had.
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post #32 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, re: Cinnamon desktop choice.

Cinnamon is a "shell" on top of Gnome3, probably the most RAM/CPU intensive desktop option. Probably not an issue for any PC post 2004 or so, just a heads up for anyone migrating a pre-2005 PC.

Cinnamon users on early dual core or single core CPUs can report their opinions on Cinnamon responsiveness vs CPU make/model, then we can get a feel for the minimum CPU Mark score for Cinnamon use. I would guess a CPU Mark of 500 or greater for Cinnamon use (i.e. about double that needed for XFCE or LXDE).

I would assume Cinnamon needs 1GB RAM minimum.
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post #33 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 11:21 AM
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Excellent thread -- thanks for starting it, RGB!

While we're at it, let's not leave out openSUSE as an option. I've done a few XP-to-Linux conversions this past month, about half of which were Kubuntu and the other half were openSUSE. Keep in mind, also, that these were for clients with no previous Linux experience, some of the machines were laptops, and one even required setting up CAC --> http://www.cac.mil/

Some things I really like about openSUSE:

* single distro -- It defaults to KDE, but any desktop can be initially installed. (or not wink.gif )

* network install available -- boot from any media and install from an internet mirror. This gives you the latest packages immediately.

* YaST -- In my experience, YaST is by far the best system management tool available. EVERYTHING can be configured within its GUI: hardware including network interfaces and sound, firewall settings, services, shares, package management, etc. It even has a web interface, too.

* one-click install -- This is great for installing proprietary video drivers, pipelight, etc. Just click the button on the (trusted) webpage and the appropriate repos are added, the packages are downloaded including dependencies, and (after authorization, of course) everything is installed and configured. It really couldn't be easier.

* excellent community support -- this can be said about others, as well, but it is worth mentioning here.

As an advanced user, there are some other things I like about it, too:

* Xen -- openSUSE is one of the few remaining distros that let you set up Xen "out-of-the-box" from the standard installer.

* Tumbleweed -- a "rolling" distribution where you have access to the latest "bleeding-edge" packages.
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post #34 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sysadmin View Post

Excellent thread -- thanks for starting it, RGB!

While we're at it, let's not leave out openSUSE as an option. I've done a few XP-to-Linux conversions this past month, about half of which were Kubuntu and the other half were openSUSE. Keep in mind, also, that these were for clients with no previous Linux experience, some of the machines were laptops, and one even required setting up CAC --> http://www.cac.mil/

Some things I really like about openSUSE:

* single distro -- It defaults to KDE, but any desktop can be initially installed. (or not wink.gif )

* network install available -- boot from any media and install from an internet mirror. This gives you the latest packages immediately.

* YaST -- In my experience, YaST is by far the best system management tool available. EVERYTHING can be configured within its GUI: hardware including network interfaces and sound, firewall settings, services, shares, package management, etc. It even has a web interface, too.

* one-click install -- This is great for installing proprietary video drivers, pipelight, etc. Just click the button on the (trusted) webpage and the appropriate repos are added, the packages are downloaded including dependencies, and (after authorization, of course) everything is installed and configured. It really couldn't be easier.

* excellent community support -- this can be said about others, as well, but it is worth mentioning here.

As an advanced user, there are some other things I like about it, too:

* Xen -- openSUSE is one of the few remaining distros that let you set up Xen "out-of-the-box" from the standard installer.

* Tumbleweed -- a "rolling" distribution where you have access to the latest "bleeding-edge" packages.

And the first Fedora/Redhat/Suse person responds!! Because of this I'll add to the confusion.

Fedora based vs Debian based. Which is better? What offers better solutions than another?

There's of course no answer to that, but it is another element that adds to the confusion for people migrating to Linux. I forgot that KDE is native to OpenSuse. KDE is such an elegant desktop and is the preferred desktop for my wife. Primarily because she lives on Digikam. For you photo nuts out there looking for a photo editing solution within Linux (Adobe Photoshop is not supported in Linux), I HIGHLY recommend a combination of Digikam (file management and good editing functions) and GIMP (A full featured Photoshop replacement). KDE offers the easiest way to achieve both of those. Plus I really like the Dolphin File Manager native to KDE.

There's another program now called "Darktable". It mimics Adobe Lightroom. That program can be used in your standard GTK desktops (KDE is a Qt based desktop). Confused yet?

So, Fedora and OpenSuse. Kind of like Mint and Ubuntu. Different flavor of the same thing. Problem is, once you get familiar with one platform, you kind of want to stick with it. Ubuntu/Mint is a "Debian" based distribution. Fedora/OpenSuse is a "RedHat" based distribution. They each do things a little differently. Once you're comfortable using one, the other can feel a bit clunky. There's definitely no answer on which is better. I use Debian based distros at home, but at work we use OpenSuse and Redhat to run our multi-million dollar MRI machines.

It's all Linux. It just shows how flexible Linux is.
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post #35 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 01:31 PM
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Reading this article, I thought it provides an interesting perspective.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Dear-Windows-XP-Users-Please-Don-t-Migrate-to-Linux-432355.shtml

There's a part of me that agrees that Linux could lose a lot of credibility due to a host of dissatisfied XP users that don't know how to accept change. I've experienced this as well. I'm getting ready to load Win8 on a couple of computers for one family that I migrated about 18 months ago, then cut the cord completely with them.

It's not that they knew how to really use XP either, but they knew how to use certain apps. Those apps not being available they had to learn new apps, and new ways to do things. Something they adamantly refused to do. These people required A LOT of support when they had XP. That's why I moved them to Linux Mint. They're machines are much more stable. I'm not troubleshooting BSOD's or O/S related issues anymore, but I'm constantly having to learn how to use various apps so they can use them. I'm quite good with GIMP now. I never edited a photo in my life prior to their migration. Garmin training watch? How to make that work in Linux and use it effectively? I don't have one of those watches, but I could Google it, so I did and got it working.

Then there's the final piece. iTunes.

I have a very special, and very dark place in my heart for iTunes. It is a blackness that no heart surgeon could remove, and it howls with all the winds of the Nine Hells.

I will recommend that ANYBODY helping somebody migrate from XP to Linux to make sure iTunes is NOT on this list of applications they use. If it is, run away, and run away fast. Sure, there are ways to get music on and off an iPod with Linux. It's not iTunes though. This will bring you to tears, and the frustration in dealing with an iTunes lover will make you consider throwing yourself down a flight of stairs.

The other is Photoshop. If you're dealing with a real photographer that uses Photoshop for a living. Don't try and migrate them. GIMP is great. However, a professional photographer has a lot of time and money invested in learning Photoshop and their productivity will suffer greatly having to learn the new platform. That's not worth the "free, and flexible" that Linux is. Safe to say that most of these professionals aren't hanging on to XP anyway, and have long since moved on to Win7 or even Win8.
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post #36 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 02:56 PM
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Good points on iTunes and Photoshop users. Though I think you may be hard pressed to find a professional Photoshop power user still using xp, but just my $.02

At work we recently upgraded from xp to 7 and nearly all managers/engineers had something to complain about (though the bulk of complaints were directed towards office 2010 coming from 03 rather than W7)

I like following this discussion

To show how much I don't know I'll ask a noob question . . .

I've only ever used Debian based distros with apt-get

I know arch used pacman which is slightly different, but what does fedora use?

Are there any other main cores?
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post #37 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Good points on iTunes and Photoshop users. Though I think you may be hard pressed to find a professional Photoshop power user still using xp, but just my $.02

At work we recently upgraded from xp to 7 and nearly all managers/engineers had something to complain about (though the bulk of complaints were directed towards office 2010 coming from 03 rather than W7)

I like following this discussion

To show how much I don't know I'll ask a noob question . . .

I've only ever used Debian based distros with apt-get

I know arch used pacman which is slightly different, but what does fedora use?

Are there any other main cores?

Fedora based distros use the .rpm package format and system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPM_Package_Manager

vs Debian/Ubuntu/Mint's .deb package format
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deb_(file_format)

These are analogous to Mac OSX's .dmg packages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Disk_Image

or Windows' .EXE/MSI installers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Installer

On the command line, you can install .rpm's with yum (similar to apt-get) in Fedora
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/08/yum-command-examples/

http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25880
https://ask.fedoraproject.org/en/question/9449/how-to-install-new-software-offline/

Suse based distros also use .rpms and yum
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post #38 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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re: iTunes as a XP to Linux migration roadblock

That may have been a valid excuse 5-10 years ago, but now with the HUGE amount of good free and/or open source music player/manager apps available- Rhythmbox, Clementine, DeadBeef, Audacious, Amarok, MPD with web/gui clients, Banshee, gmusicbrowser, Exaile, Quod Libet, Foobnix, Guayadeque or foobar2000 with Wine,

http://www.head-fi.org/t/561961/bit-perfect-audio-from-linux

coupled with free cloud music storage/players like Amazon or Google Play music (free 20,000 song storage), web accessible on any device, the iTunes argument is quite old and tired.

Yes, we know that non-technical users like your sister or Mom or wife have a hard time with *any* change in software, but even that argument is ridiculous at this point, given that people throw away their phones and tablets with a new interface every year, and the HUGE changes from XP>Vista>Win7>Win8.0>win8.1, why would there be reluctance to try a free speech alternative at this point, since there's going to be change in any event?
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post #39 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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re: Photoshop

I've never known a non-pro photographer (i.e. most computer users) use it. I think there are PLENTY of open source photo editing and photo manager apps from simple to complex at this point to satisfy most common uses and uses, coupled with free web based photo managers and editors.
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post #40 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by minivanman View Post

And the first Fedora/Redhat/Suse person responds!! Because of this I'll add to the confusion.

Fedora based vs Debian based. Which is better? What offers better solutions than another?


It's all Linux. It just shows how flexible Linux is.

I think you meant that Fedora/Red Hat/Suse use the same package format, i.e. .rpm = .deb and yum = apt-get

The Linux family tree (cladogram) shows that Suse split from SLackware somewhere back in 1994
http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/12.10/gldt1210.svg

http://futurist.se/gldt/

while Fedora is the Community edition of Red Hat (paid support, corporate oriented)
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post #41 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by minivanman View Post



So, Fedora and OpenSuse. Kind of like Mint and Ubuntu. Different flavor of the same thing. Problem is, once you get familiar with one platform, you kind of want to stick with it. Ubuntu/Mint is a "Debian" based distribution. Fedora/OpenSuse is a "RedHat" based distribution. They each do things a little differently. Once you're comfortable using one, the other can feel a bit clunky. There's definitely no answer on which is better. I use Debian based distros at home, but at work we use OpenSuse and Redhat to run our multi-million dollar MRI machines.

It's all Linux. It just shows how flexible Linux is.

But any self respecting geek should *want* to learn all the major Linux "ways of doing things", with a BSD thrown in for one more punch in your Geek Card biggrin.gif

But seriously, all you need to learn to cover most commonly used distros would be Red Hat (Fedora), Debian (Ubuntu and Mint), and Suse plus maybe a Slackware based distro (Slacko Puppy or Zenwalk) and/or Arch based distro (Manjaro), so really only 4-5 major distro "styles". Personally, I would only take time learning three types: Red Hat (Fedora, CentOS, etc), Debian (X/K/L/Ubuntu, Mint, etc) and Suse.

There are only 2 major package formats- rpm/yum and deb/apt with other lesser used packaging systems like pacman (Arch) and maybe others I missed.
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post #42 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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post #43 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 10:02 PM
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Yes, it tried to like Suse, way back, and then again later, but no, not for me.

I've got a few things that won't work under Linux, iTunes for one, bought an iPad2 a few years back, hate it and really wish I had an android tablet. Very limiting, and difficult to add stuff to. I also have a Playon license that I'd like to use occasionally, but it needs a quad core processor to function properly and that is dedicated to my main Linux box. Tried running it on a virtual machine on Mint but too laggy. At some point I'll upgrade one of my other computers and move Playon to it, but for now if I really need it - which is rarely - I dual boot into windows.
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post #44 of 142 Old 05-01-2014, 10:34 PM
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I'm not going to multi-quote you RGB, but at least try and tag most of your responses.

iTunes is old and tired. NOBODY should be using it. On any platform. Plus, why would you buy a device that makes you use a proprietary software that's only available on a certain platform with other options for use being sort of backdoor options? That's the way I feel about Apple products, but let's be real, A LOT of people own Apple products despite my objections. You still can't sync an iPhone 4 or above in Linux.

Like I said in a previous post, my wife uses Digikam and GIMP and loves them. I learned GIMP for a friend that thinks he's a professional photographer but isn't. That friend wants Photoshop because he thinks somehow his productivity will increase using it because he knows other people that use it. Like I said, it's a forehead on the desk, facepalm kind of situation, but one I want to get rid of. Other great photo programs are Pinta (which is very light and easy to use for quick edits. I use it when I pull an image off the net and need to do something quick. Picasa works very well through WINE. Darktable is a newcomer to the game and seems to work very well. That's professional grade photo management that's beyond my abilities, or needs.

So, I agree, there are a lot of apps out there that replace old Windows apps. However, it's convincing people that they're just as good. Not everybody can be convinced. Not everybody wants to be convinced. I only offered that as a point of caution when dealing with individuals that are looking to jump off of XP. You have to be pretty clear what the person will be sacrificing. A lot of people put a great deal of value on familiarity. Think how many people will tolerate hated family members instead of going out and finding new friends to spend a holiday with. That's kind of the way I look at it. They'll stick with a love/hate relationship because it's familiar. So, I caution that with XP to Linux migrations. Be careful you're not shoving Linux down the throat of somebody like that. You'll just end up tearing your hair out.

Even with these types of people I can get them to admit that their Linux distribution is superior, and they have less problems. I still can't get them to familiarize themselves with available apps as opposed to what they currently know. This isn't exclusive to XP though. My mother-in-law who runs Mint 10 told me she'd murder me in my sleep if I upgraded her. My wife's uncle accidentally upgraded his Ubuntu 10.10 to 12.04 with Unity. You'd think the world had ended. He now loves Unity and wants nothing else. So again, I caution, as a person that does a lot of migrations and conversions for people, be ready for the influx of angst coming from the people you think you're helping. It's not as easy as downloading an .ISO and loading it on to a computer.

Enjoy getting that old Lexmark printer Joe Neighbor has to work. (Maybe Lexmark has upped their game recently. That was a bad conversation I had to have when I told somebody their printer wasn't compatible).

I always thought Suse was a Fedora/Redhat based distro. I've been wrong more that once. I guess I was going off the .rpm as the indicator like I do for .deb being Debian and anything using that extension is a Debian based distro.

I use Arch and Debian based. I learned Arch because of Pulse Audio. Arch doesn't load Pulse Audio by default. I like that seeing as I hate Pulse Audio and find ALSA to be far superior and far more stable and bug free. I've never had much luck just removing Pulse, so Arch offered a great way to not have to even touch it.

I still recommend Arch for purpose built machines. When you need something specific and nothing more. My HTPCs all run Arch. Gives me ultimate control over everything. Fleshing out an Arch installation to have the functionality of Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Mint, etc can take A LOT of time, and I see no need. Just load one of those instead.
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post #45 of 142 Old 05-02-2014, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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minivanman-

Excellent articulation of issues helping the Windows "sick"

(malware, adware and artificial user restrictions are like a "disease" )

A common trait of IT/CS/geek/techie types is that we want to often pro-actively "help" others.

"No good deed goes unpunished".

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/no_good_deed_goes_unpunished
http://askville.amazon.com/deed-unpunished-literal-meaning-warning/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=3534766

Don't fall into this trap. After years of experience, you learn how to better pick and choose who and how to give advice to and/or render labor help to. Accept that you CAN'T "Cure" or "make free" ALL Windows users wink.gif

Learn to recognize and avoid "hypochondriac" tech/PC users, and gauge a potential recipient's skill level to match the distro, desktop and apps to the user. Don't feel "cornered" into rendering help because they are a family member/friend/coworker or workplace superior. Calibrate expectations by explaining the differences in the desktop/GUI from what they are familiar with and the app differences. Don't feel a need to "convince". All that is needed is to make aware the options available.

Barter your labor for lunch/dinner, hardware trade or straight up payment, hourly or flat rate, to do a migration or provide ongoing support or for each support incident.

Do a quick search against their printer/camera/scanner model numbers to check if they are Linux supported and tell them if they are not BEFORE migrating and suggest models (several, let THEM choose the precise model between at least 2) to replace them- Brother or Samsung refurb lasers are ~$50-$60 shipped now, well supported on Linux across most/all models, with refilled toner carts ~$10 on Amazon/ebay- a FRACTION of the cost per page to print vs ink. As of 2014, NO ONE should be using an inkjet, except *Maybe* for special color photo projects by semi-pros or pros. I use a ~$150 refurb Brother color laser for my color printing.

SANE supported scanners can be found essentially free as giveaways or $5-$10 or less at thrift stores/resale shops (Goodwill/Salvation Army/mom & pop) or neighborhood yard sales all the time- and I'm talking FAR better quality older scanners by Epson/Canon/HP/etc before the cost reduced flimsy junk seen at the Staples of the world today.

http://www.sane-project.org/

So there is no real hardship in replacing common hardware with Linux compatible alternatives that may be more recent vintage and/or better quality than what they were using anyways. Yes, there's often funky low volume hardware that may not be supported in an easy fashion under Linux. C'est la vie.

Let *them* decide to proceed or not. Be clear that whether they go with a FOSS OS and apps or a replacement version of Win/Office or Mac OSX, they are going to have changes in all cases. Remember that older printers/scanners/cameras/hardware may not be supported with drivers on Win7/8 or Mac OSX, either. They'd have to do the research and cope with change for any OS or Office app change.

I don't even understand why there is still any resistance, given there are so many non-Win options in the commercial market now- Android (Linux kernel) tablets and phones everywhere, OSX (BSD kernel) and iOS, and Chromebooks (Linux kernel) on the end cap at Staples. Crimony, most any distro with Chrome installed is a "Chromebook", with full blown Office apps like LIbreOffice, photo apps like DigiKam and Gimp, and games (Steam, FOSS games, Win games in WIne, plus web HTML/Flash/Java games).

Let them boot a KDE, XFCE, Gnome, LXDE, Cinnamon, MATE, etc desktop from a liveUSB/CD and let THEM decide which desktop GUI they want.

The MOTHER of all distros to evaluate ALL potential desktops is Hybryde 13.04:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fer-tiuXI

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=hybryde

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1981321

http://www.hybryde.org/site/index.php#myModal

I have never seen another distro that does what it can do- instantly switch among Gnome3, Cinnamon, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, MATE and a few others WITHOUT rebooting or even logging out!

It's the perfect distro for evaluating which desktop you want. It's not recommended for installing for permanent use, but can't be touched for desktop choice testing.

The older a Windows app is, the more likely it works well with WIne

http://appdb.winehq.org/

so if your Mom is using some 1998-2004 version of PrintMaster or Print Shop on XP or her favorite Reel Deal slots casino game, it most likely works fine on a recent Wine version and current distro. Funny thing is, as we move forward, the number of XP and earlier WIn apps that work on Wine/Linux will EXCEED the number of pre-WIn7/8 apps that work on Win7/8 and greater. Again, pre-Win7 apps & games are basically "free" as giveaways, bargain bins, dollar stores, ebay, thrift stores, yard sales, etc.

To help explain what "FOSS" is, tell them FOSS is to software what NPR/PBS are to radio/TV media, or FOSS is a public library/paper book vs Barnes & Noble/locked ebooks.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

And no, we aren't all pie-in-the-sky hippies. Some of us wish we had held MSFT stock from 1990-1999 or AAPL from 2002-2012 wink.gif

There is room for both worldviews (FOSS and commercial activities)
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post #46 of 142 Old 05-02-2014, 07:44 AM - Thread Starter
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post #47 of 142 Old 05-04-2014, 05:24 PM
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For reference, I've just loaded openSUSE with LXDE on an old Dell Dimension 3000. This series was quite popular back in the day, and I have a few of them sitting around collecting dust, so why not?

We all remember these, right? (Sorry, my cell camera is junk):



CPU: Pentium 4 2.8 GHz (single core)
RAM: 512MB DDR 333
VGA: Intel 865G
HD: 80 GB IDE

It's quite responsive. I fired up a couple of apps and asked a friend (who is also a tech) what he thought might be under the hood, and he said, "It's got to be at least a dual-core." NOPE! smile.gif



Everything worked great "out-of-the-box", but having some video issues: as you can see in the above photo, the URL text in FF is just black/gray bars. And also, Flash video doesn't play properly. I'll tinker with the driver and settings later, just haven't got to it yet. Hopefully, it should be fixable.

For the record, I'm not an openSUSE fanboy. smile.gif Gentoo is actually my flavor of choice, but I won't in a million years load that up and support it for anyone but myself. I can understand and respect RGB's philosophical objections to openSUSE, too, but I don't share them. As an I.T. pro that will eventually be supporting businesses with heterogeneous server environments, I actually welcome the partnership between MS and SUSE.

Don't get me wrong, though. I completely despise MS as much as the next guy. Anyone that has ever looked into their server software licensing will agree that the whole thing is an elaborate, convoluted extortion scheme. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I could write a book on how unethical and "evil" their practices are. But, unfortunately, they are a necessary evil (Peachtree, Intuit, Adobe, etc. will NEVER release their high-end commercial software in Linux), and I've learned to deal with that. (Well, Quckbooks runs in the cloud now, and that's a move in the right direction.)

Back to openSUSE: many of these older systems I have lying around are unable to boot from a flash drive and have only CD-ROM drives, so openSUSE's net installer is a "no-brainer". I can decide on the desktop environment that I think would fit best with the hardware and not have to worry about system updates after the install -- all from a single CD. Plus, we all know that everything is released in both debian and rpm's, so there's no worries about software availability in openSUSE. Throw in YaST, and I have a hard time understanding why more people aren't using it.

Also, for the record, I'm not knocking *buntu in any way. I've used it for years, and I like it, too.
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post #48 of 142 Old 05-04-2014, 09:37 PM
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I too enjoy openSUSE. It's version of Gnome 3 works very well on a tablet. As for it's agreement with MS, it sure is better than getting sued by MS. It was the smart thing to do.

As for your Firefox Flash problem. Look at the add-ons that are installed in Firefox. If you have the "Video WithOut Flash" add-on, disable it.
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post #49 of 142 Old 05-05-2014, 07:24 PM
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I too enjoy openSUSE. It's version of Gnome 3 works very well on a tablet. As for it's agreement with MS, it sure is better than getting sued by MS. It was the smart thing to do.

As for your Firefox Flash problem. Look at the add-ons that are installed in Firefox. If you have the "Video WithOut Flash" add-on, disable it.

Thx, waterhead. I wasn't really fishing for help, but I certainly do appreciate that. I checked the addons, and that one wasn't there. Looked around a little today, and it might work better if I load up the legacy intel driver with UMS, but dunno if I even want to bother with it. I can sell it as a "homework machine" as-is for $75. Doesn't really matter if Youtube works -- kids have smart phones for that.

Started refurbing another one today -- a Dimension 4700. It's a step up from the 3000: sata HD, 915 VGA, P4 supports hyper-threading, 2.5 GB DDR2 memory. It runs the hell out of KDE. smile.gif Youtube runs great. Gonna try pipelight on it when I get back around to it.
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post #50 of 142 Old 05-05-2014, 08:19 PM
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Now I'm curious. As just a dabbler in KDE, is there any significant difference in performance between OpenSuse and Kubuntu? I like the fact that KDE is native to OpenSuse, but just wondering if that makes a difference.
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post #51 of 142 Old 05-05-2014, 10:43 PM
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Now I'm curious. As just a dabbler in KDE, is there any significant difference in performance between OpenSuse and Kubuntu? I like the fact that KDE is native to OpenSuse, but just wondering if that makes a difference.

You would be better to run XFCE for the interface.  Very lightweight and quick.  KDE & Gnome have too much bloat.

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post #52 of 142 Old 05-05-2014, 10:44 PM
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Thx, waterhead. I wasn't really fishing for help, but I certainly do appreciate that. I checked the addons, and that one wasn't there. Looked around a little today, and it might work better if I load up the legacy intel driver with UMS, but dunno if I even want to bother with it. I can sell it as a "homework machine" as-is for $75. Doesn't really matter if Youtube works -- kids have smart phones for that.

Started refurbing another one today -- a Dimension 4700. It's a step up from the 3000: sata HD, 915 VGA, P4 supports hyper-threading, 2.5 GB DDR2 memory. It runs the hell out of KDE. smile.gif Youtube runs great. Gonna try pipelight on it when I get back around to it.

The 3000's had an issue of popping the Capacitors.  The 4700 should handle 4 GB of RAM.

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post #53 of 142 Old 05-06-2014, 09:40 AM
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Now I'm curious. As just a dabbler in KDE, is there any significant difference in performance between OpenSuse and Kubuntu? I like the fact that KDE is native to OpenSuse, but just wondering if that makes a difference.

No. KDE runs the same performance-wise regardless of the distro. openSUSE doesn't force-feed you PulseAudio, though -- it just loads it with Gnome.
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post #54 of 142 Old 05-06-2014, 09:46 AM
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The 3000's had an issue of popping the Capacitors.  The 4700 should handle 4 GB of RAM.

Yeah, the 4700 has 4 slots. This one has 2 1GB and 2 256MB sticks in it.

Got a call from the local paper this morning -- they want to trade me 3 months of ads for it. Sweet. smile.gif
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post #55 of 142 Old 05-06-2014, 11:32 AM
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No. KDE runs the same performance-wise regardless of the distro. openSUSE doesn't force-feed you PulseAudio, though -- it just loads it with Gnome.

That's good to know. I HATE PulseAudio. PulseAudio is the number one reason I moved to ArchLinux for my HTPC builds. Arch doesn't install it by default either.

It's these little quirks that make it really hard to settle on a particular distribution. That and I like to tinker and play. Unfortunately the only KDE user in the house is my wife, and I'm under threat of death over changing anything with her current Kubuntu.
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post #56 of 142 Old 05-06-2014, 01:57 PM
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No. KDE runs the same performance-wise regardless of the distro. openSUSE doesn't force-feed you PulseAudio, though -- it just loads it with Gnome.

Pulse Audio is required in order for sound to run.  As for KDE having the same performance as XFCE.  That is far from correct.

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post #57 of 142 Old 05-06-2014, 02:48 PM
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Pulse Audio is required in order for sound to run.  As for KDE having the same performance as XFCE.  That is far from correct.

That is completely wrong on PulseAudio. PulseAudio is absolutely not required for audio. My HTPCs don't have PulseAudio and they run just fine. In fact, I couldn't get PulseAudio to run correctly on my HTPCs. That's why I moved to ArchLinux where ALSA is default. Much more mature option. Getting rid of PulseAudio is a PITA. Better to start with a distro that doesn't use it than use a distro and have to rip your hair out removing it completely.

I'm glad you love XFCE. There's already been a lot of love in this thread for XFCE. HOWEVER, KDE is a QT based desktop whereas XFCE is a GTK based desktop. Two different animals. KDE offers some really cool applications, that while you can run them on XFCE, if you're heavily invested in them (Amarok, Digikam, etc), then it's better to just run KDE instead of loading down XFCE or Gnome. No point in bogging down your XFCE desktop with a bunch of QT based applications. Just use the desktop designed for them.
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post #58 of 142 Old 05-06-2014, 09:30 PM
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I just installed the latest Lubuntu on my laptop. With the default sound system, I couldn't get the microphone to work. I installed PulseAudio, and it instantly worked.

PulseAudio got a bad reputation because early on it WAS bad. It has matured and now works fairly well. It's user interface beats the hell out of anything else.
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post #59 of 142 Old 05-07-2014, 09:51 AM
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... As for KDE having the same performance as XFCE.  That is far from correct.

I was comparing KDE in one distro vs. KDE in another distro. Sorry for the confusion.
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...PulseAudio got a bad reputation because early on it WAS bad. It has matured and now works fairly well. It's user interface beats the hell out of anything else.

I have to agree with this, but I like having the option to not install it.
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post #60 of 142 Old 05-07-2014, 11:36 AM
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I just installed the latest Lubuntu on my laptop. With the default sound system, I couldn't get the microphone to work. I installed PulseAudio, and it instantly worked.

PulseAudio got a bad reputation because early on it WAS bad. It has matured and now works fairly well. It's user interface beats the hell out of anything else.

Yeah, I probably have to be a little more fair here. Pulse works fine in most instances. I don't think Pulse is where Pulse wants to be at yet. It really wants to take the Windows'ish type approach of button clicks for all your audio needs. There's value in that. It's when it doesn't work for your application that it's a pain.

I've pounded my head on a desk enough to get competent creating config files for ALSA that accomplish what I need. That's very daunting for a newbie. Pulse is the future, but it's just not quite there yet.
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