Linux migration for Windows XP refugees 101 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 142 Old 05-07-2014, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
For audiophile grade music playback, it is trivial to simply select "ALSA" in the Preferences/Setup of your music player app:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/561961/bit-perfect-audio-from-linux#post_7596268

just a matter of a few drop down menus and/or check boxes, whether Pulse is installed or not.

See how simple Linux audio is?
http://www.pc-freak.net/images/linuxaudio-mess-picture.png

biggrin.gif

But seriously, that diagram was made by a disgruntled user. Here is another more cogent view of the Linux audio software architecture:

http://tuxradar.com/files/LXF130.audio.layers.png

from

http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-works-linux-audio-explained

It's actually simpler in practice, as most distros don't have Jack installed, and I've never used OSS, and Phonon is a KDE-centric API
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon_(KDE)

and I use XFCE, so that removes at least 3 items from the simpler chart.

Here is the official Pulse architecture diagram

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Pulseaudio-diagram.svg

from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulseaudio
Quote:
The main PulseAudio features include:[4]

Per-application volume controls[5]
An extensible plugin architecture with support for loadable modules
Compatibility with many popular audio applications[6]
Support for multiple audio sources and sinks
Low-latency operation and latency measurement
A zero-copy memory architecture for processor resource efficiency
Ability to discover other computers using PulseAudio on the local network and play sound through their speakers directly
Ability to change which output device an application plays sound through while the application is playing sound (without the application needing to support this, and indeed without even being aware that this happened)
A command-line interface with scripting capabilities
A sound daemon with command line reconfiguration capabilities
Built-in sample conversion and resampling capabilities
The ability to combine multiple sound cards into one
The ability to synchronize multiple playback streams
Bluetooth audio devices with dynamic detection
The ability to enable system wide equalization

It promises a lot of cool capabilities other DRM-constrained OS's probably won't be able to do.

I'd like to try to output a DVD AC3 or DTS bitstream through SPDIF while simultaneously decoding to the analog 2ch output like any old set top DVD player, using the multiple source/sink function.-- NOT either/or.

Playing audio out to other PC's soundcard hardware over a network appears interesting.

Pulse got a deserved bad rep, and Canonical takes the blame for rolling it out too soon:
Quote:
Problems during adoption phase[edit]
When first adopted by distributions, PulseAudio developer Lennart Poettering described it as "the software that currently breaks your audio".[10] Poettering later claimed that "Ubuntu didn't exactly do a stellar job. They didn't do their homework" in adopting PulseAudio[11] for Ubuntu "Hardy Heron" (8.04), a problem which was then improved with subsequent Ubuntu releases.[12] However, in October 2009, Poettering reported that he was still not happy with Ubuntu's integration of PulseAudio.[13]
Interaction with old sound components by particular software: Certain programs, such as Adobe Flash for Linux, caused instability in PulseAudio.[14][15] Newer implementations of Flash plugins do not require the conflicting elements, and as a result Flash and PulseAudio are now compatible.
Early management of buffer over-underruns: Earlier versions of Pulseaudio sometimes started to distort the processed audio due to incorrect handling of buffer over-/underruns.[16]
Rgb is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 142 Old 05-07-2014, 08:23 PM
Member
 
minivanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lockport, IL
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Your last quote about Pulse and Flash. Uggghhhh. I wish we could get rid of Flash, but that's another rant. Let's keep this rant on point with attacking PulseAudio. wink.gif

This was exactly my problem with Pulse. Load up Mythbuntu, and have MythTV running. Create a menu item to start a browser within Myth so I could watch Flash based streams like Hulu, Amazon, etc. Open up said browser, no audio. Open up Youtube, and sometimes audio. Try to close browser and lock up system. Reboot, and audio works again, but only for Myth. Exit Myth, audio works in the browser. AAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!

Quick little ALSA config file with a "dmix" config and didn't have any problems.

I'll have to revisit Pulse now. Been wanting to use Xubuntu with MythTV (As of 12.04 it was still buggy and unusable). So much easier than building up an Arch based install.
minivanman is offline  
post #63 of 142 Old 05-09-2014, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Too good to pass up:


https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/elibrary/case/limux-it-evolution-open-source-success-story-never
Quote:
“In 2003, for instance, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer even broke off his skiing holiday to visit Munich and try to convince Ude that a Microsoft solution would be better. Though Ballmer offered to reduce licence prices – by 35 percent, from US$ 31.9 million to US$ 23.7 million, according to USA Today – he was obviously not convincing. By that time Microsoft had had to acknowledge the dangers of free software. A few months before, Ballmer had called Linux “a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches”; in the same year his sales representatives told their staff under no circumstances to lose against Linux.

But Ballmer wasn't the only one who tried to persuade Ude of a better solution. When the Munich mayor was at a conference in California, giving a speech about LiMux, Bill Gates was there as well. Ude, who is well-known as a humorist, loves to tell what happened next. Gates asked Ude if he would accept a lift to the airport in Gates's limousine. Wanting to save time, Ude agreed and off they went. Once in the car, however, the mayor discovered that the Microsoft CEO wanted to use the 20-minute ride to talk him out of LiMux. Gates asked: “Mr. Ude, why are you doing this?”. Ude replied: “To gain freedom.” Gates: “Freedom from what?” Ude: “Freedom from you, Mr. Gates.” According to Ude the rest of the ride passed in silence.”

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/14/05/09/1233212/the-man-behind-munichs-migration-of-15000-pcs-from-windows-to-linux

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux

"Freedom from you, Mr. Gates"

Sounds like James Bond talking to a super villian in his lair biggrin.gif
Rgb is offline  
post #64 of 142 Old 05-09-2014, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Rgb is offline  
post #65 of 142 Old 05-10-2014, 04:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
bac522's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 904
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Just upgraded my 70 year old mom's computer from XP to Kunbuntu...some initial teething pain, but now she's getting around with no problems. Although she only uses a computer for web surfing and gmail and I was able to setup Kunbuntu to make it look a lot like XP, so her learning curve was minimal. But my life has just become a 100 times easier since I can do a lot of work on her system via an SSH shell and no more worrying about malware getting installed because she clicked when she shouldn't have clicked! I also installed teamviewer on her system which makes it easier to work on her desktop as if I was there and I created a bookmark to whatismyip, so she can tell me what her external IP is in case it changes.
bac522 is offline  
post #66 of 142 Old 05-12-2014, 09:42 PM
Member
 
minivanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lockport, IL
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bac522 View Post

Just upgraded my 70 year old mom's computer from XP to Kunbuntu...some initial teething pain, but now she's getting around with no problems. Although she only uses a computer for web surfing and gmail and I was able to setup Kunbuntu to make it look a lot like XP, so her learning curve was minimal. But my life has just become a 100 times easier since I can do a lot of work on her system via an SSH shell and no more worrying about malware getting installed because she clicked when she shouldn't have clicked! I also installed teamviewer on her system which makes it easier to work on her desktop as if I was there and I created a bookmark to whatismyip, so she can tell me what her external IP is in case it changes.

My mother-in-law around the same age has been using Mint for several years now. Her brother (my wife's uncle) is a little younger but no less computer illiterate is using straight Ubuntu. We've all kind of glossed over one of the BIGGEST perks of using Linux. The no malware. I can't count how many times I had to go "fix" my MIL's Windows Vista because she happy clicked a coupon site or something. My wife's uncle had two teenage sons. He got Ubuntu because I refused to clean off any more porn induced malware from his WinXP.

I HIGHLY recommend Linux to people with teenagers and the elderly. The two most targeted demographics for malware. It will make your life (if you're the family computer person) so much easier.
minivanman is offline  
post #67 of 142 Old 05-13-2014, 05:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
balky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by minivanman View Post

That's good to know. I HATE PulseAudio. PulseAudio is the number one reason I moved to ArchLinux for my HTPC builds. Arch doesn't install it by default either.

It's these little quirks that make it really hard to settle on a particular distribution. That and I like to tinker and play. Unfortunately the only KDE user in the house is my wife, and I'm under threat of death over changing anything with her current Kubuntu.

I have no words to describe how much I hate pulseaudio...

My favorite is CentOS and I currently use it on all my (three) HTPCs...

I could only get HD audio bitstreaming to work perfectly well with 1080p24 after removing pulse audio and setting up ALSA correctly...

I started Linux with Slackware 3, then moved to RedHat 4, then went with Suse Linux, I still have the CD box sets for Suse Linux 6 and 7...

Drifted away from RedHat as soon as they became commercial, and couldn't stand Fedora... and ditched it almost after a month of use of the first fedora release...
Became disgusted with Suse when they were bought over by Novell and re-branded opensuse... since then it always felt like playing the free public beta testers for some greedy capitalists...
I think Suse studio is the joke of the century, in my opinion, they're just exploiting the unsuspecting public to help them increase revenue in the name of open source...

Never really got along very well with anything Debian although I think the real Debian is really rock solid, and I also think Ubuntu is the next in line for bloatware when compared to M$...

For now, CentOS brings back the stability I experienced in the good old RedHat Linux without being forced to buy support for an OS that I have known for like 17 years... biggrin.gif
balky is offline  
post #68 of 142 Old 05-13-2014, 09:17 AM
Member
 
minivanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lockport, IL
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by balky View Post

I have no words to describe how much I hate pulseaudio...

My favorite is CentOS and I currently use it on all my (three) HTPCs...

I could only get HD audio bitstreaming to work perfectly well with 1080p24 after removing pulse audio and setting up ALSA correctly...

I started Linux with Slackware 3, then moved to RedHat 4, then went with Suse Linux, I still have the CD box sets for Suse Linux 6 and 7...

Drifted away from RedHat as soon as they became commercial, and couldn't stand Fedora... and ditched it almost after a month of use of the first fedora release...
Became disgusted with Suse when they were bought over by Novell and re-branded opensuse... since then it always felt like playing the free public beta testers for some greedy capitalists...
I think Suse studio is the joke of the century, in my opinion, they're just exploiting the unsuspecting public to help them increase revenue in the name of open source...

Never really got along very well with anything Debian although I think the real Debian is really rock solid, and I also think Ubuntu is the next in line for bloatware when compared to M$...

For now, CentOS brings back the stability I experienced in the good old RedHat Linux without being forced to buy support for an OS that I have known for like 17 years... biggrin.gif

This post makes me happy. It's funny how the simplest things just set us off. It's also another testament to the beauty of Linux. I personally would have never considered CentOS for anything but server duty, but, that's just me being narrowminded. A billion servers can't be wrong, so why couldn't you use it for an HTPC?
minivanman is offline  
post #69 of 142 Old 05-13-2014, 10:01 AM
Senior Member
 
sysadmin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I like CentOS and Scientific Linux (also RHEL-based), too. Very solid, and no worries once you get the right repos set up. Plus, you get the added bonus of running commercial (or semi-commercial) apps that don't have Debian packages such as Zimbra and SGD .
sysadmin is offline  
post #70 of 142 Old 05-13-2014, 12:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
balky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by minivanman View Post

This post makes me happy. It's funny how the simplest things just set us off. It's also another testament to the beauty of Linux. I personally would have never considered CentOS for anything but server duty, but, that's just me being narrowminded. A billion servers can't be wrong, so why couldn't you use it for an HTPC?

The server duty is what makes it really interesting as that directly implies stability and reliabilty...
balky is offline  
post #71 of 142 Old 05-13-2014, 01:10 PM
Member
 
minivanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lockport, IL
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by balky View Post

The server duty is what makes it really interesting as that directly implies stability and reliabilty...

All these discussions do is make me download a bunch of ISO's I'll never get around to trying out.
minivanman is offline  
post #72 of 142 Old 05-13-2014, 02:39 PM
Senior Member
 
sysadmin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by minivanman View Post

All these discussions do is make me download a bunch of ISO's I'll never get around to trying out.

lol tongue.gif
sysadmin is offline  
post #73 of 142 Old 05-14-2014, 04:01 AM
Advanced Member
 
balky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by minivanman View Post

All these discussions do is make me download a bunch of ISO's I'll never get around to trying out.

Yes, I do that as well, but on the other hand, the ISO can be quite handy when you spontaneously decide to spend an hour or two to try stuff out... LOL..
balky is offline  
post #74 of 142 Old 05-14-2014, 06:04 AM
Senior Member
 
Lost Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North of the Columbia River
Posts: 478
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by balky View Post

The server duty is what makes it really interesting as that directly implies stability and reliabilty...

To me that implies boring! If something not on the edge of breaking then I must be doing something wrong!!

Ha ha... No, I've been a fan of Mint (Mate interface) fora while now. Moved over from Debian Testing because I felt it was too restrictive. I tried Ubuntu but for some reason it annoyed me. Tried Manjaro linux but that just didn't click... now running Mint on everything in the house. My desktop runs the latest Mint and I upgrade it at every release. My MythTV HTPC is running Mint 13 but will get an upgrade on the next LTS release.

Oh wait.... I do have one Debian server stuck behind my desk that's been running 24x7 for about 5 years now.... That's due for an upgrade!
Lost Dog is offline  
post #75 of 142 Old 05-14-2014, 10:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
newlinux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 1,561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by minivanman View Post

All these discussions do is make me download a bunch of ISO's I'll never get around to trying out.

I hear you. I wish I had more time. I've tried all kinds of distros (and BSD) over the years, but as I've gotten older (married, kids, more demanding job, house to take care of, etc.) I haven't had much time to play. Before I standardized my machines on 12.04 I played with PCLinuxOS and Debian and I ran Mint for a year or so. I decided to stick with Ubuntu LTS releases (I actually run Kubuntu - Unity chased me off of Ubuntu). Every 2 years (each LTS release) I spend a weekend or so upgrading all my machines and the time has come again - sometime this summer I'll move everything to 14.04 or something new. I would really like to try out Arch as my standard distro, but in the end speed matters for me with all the machines I'm maintaining and I've become familiar and comfortable with Ubuntu...
newlinux is offline  
post #76 of 142 Old 05-14-2014, 10:31 AM
Member
 
minivanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lockport, IL
Posts: 113
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by newlinux View Post

I hear you. I wish I had more time. I've tried all kinds of distros (and BSD) over the years, but as I've gotten older (married, kids, more demanding job, house to take care of, etc.) I haven't had much time to play. Before I standardized my machines on 12.04 I played with PCLinuxOS and Debian and I ran Mint for a year or so. I decided to stick with Ubuntu LTS releases (I actually run Kubuntu - Unity chased me off of Ubuntu). Every 2 years (each LTS release) I spend a weekend or so upgrading all my machines and the time has come again - sometime this summer I'll move everything to 14.04 or something new. I would really like to try out Arch as my standard distro, but in the end speed matters for me with all the machines I'm maintaining and I've become familiar and comfortable with Ubuntu...

I really like Arch. But like you, I manage a lot of machines in my home. Arch has become a fallback when something doesn't work right with an Ubuntu flavored release (see our discussion on PulseAudio). So, my HTPCs all run Arch.

I get a greater sense of accomplishment getting an Arch build running right. But the ease of use of an Ubuntu LTS is more practical, so I'd happily ditch Arch and convert my HTPCs to Xubuntu LTS's.

I'm no longer a Windows guy and didn't know if this was possible when I did use Windows, but as far as managing multiple machines, I LOVE SSH in Linux. Being able to remotely manage all my machines from one console is invaluable. I can SSH into a machine, and rsync files between two different machines. Do all the updating, install and uninstall packages. Do folder and file management, etc, etc. I love it.
minivanman is offline  
post #77 of 142 Old 05-14-2014, 11:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
newlinux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 1,561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by minivanman View Post

I really like Arch. But like you, I manage a lot of machines in my home. Arch has become a fallback when something doesn't work right with an Ubuntu flavored release (see our discussion on PulseAudio). So, my HTPCs all run Arch.

I get a greater sense of accomplishment getting an Arch build running right. But the ease of use of an Ubuntu LTS is more practical, so I'd happily ditch Arch and convert my HTPCs to Xubuntu LTS's.

I'm no longer a Windows guy and didn't know if this was possible when I did use Windows, but as far as managing multiple machines, I LOVE SSH in Linux. Being able to remotely manage all my machines from one console is invaluable. I can SSH into a machine, and rsync files between two different machines. Do all the updating, install and uninstall packages. Do folder and file management, etc, etc. I love it.

ssh is wonderful. I use it for remote administration (at home, and from work) a lot. And using keys and rsync I run my backups through it as well. The only thing I troubleshoot directly at most of my machines are hardware and display issues. When I first started doing HTPCs I used to spend hours tweaking things to get the video to look right. This has improved so much over the last few years (I still stick mostly with Nvidia, with some intel displays - no AMDs yet).

Yeah, I've had my issues with Pulse over the years, but I've overcome all of them so it hasn't been an issue for me (Knock on wood). Some of them took some time to work through though - In some cases the answer was use ALSA directly smile.gif.
newlinux is offline  
post #78 of 142 Old 05-19-2014, 12:47 PM
Member
 
bobafetthotmail's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 40

As far as flash goes, Firefox is developing his own plugin ala Chrome, Shamview I think.

 

French police ("Gendarmerie") phased out around a hundred thousand Windows boxes as well, and uses GendBuntu instead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu

Claims millions of savings.

 

Mint LMDE (Mint based off Debian Testing) in my non-gaming non-work rigs. Uninstalled PulseAudio as well. Also installed XFCE and removed Cinnamon, now it looks like Mint XFCE 16.

 

Debian has the big advantage of being very similar to Ubuntu (as the latter is a derivative of the former), but requires better understanding of what you are doing. While being more stable, although not as outdated as Debian Stable.

bobafetthotmail is offline  
post #79 of 142 Old 05-19-2014, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post

As far as flash goes, Firefox is developing his own plugin ala Chrome, Shamview I think.



The Mozilla Foundation's Flash alternative is "Shumway"

https://mozilla.github.io/shumway/
Rgb is offline  
post #80 of 142 Old 05-19-2014, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Common theme:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu
Quote:
One of the main aims of the GendBuntu project was for the organisation to become independent from proprietary software distributors and editors, and achieve significant savings in software costs (estimated to be around two million euros per year).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux
Quote:
The main goal is to achieve more independence from software distributors,

Interesting how two nations that *know* what dictators are like from recent (past 100 years) history are leading the way implementing FOSS.
Rgb is offline  
post #81 of 142 Old 05-21-2014, 12:42 AM
Member
 
bobafetthotmail's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 40

It's more like being cheap coupled with a position of clear power, although local. They can run linux on the same hardware that had XP on it, and are in a position where it's everyone else that has to conform to their standards.

 

I mean, neither police nor public administration are going to accept a "I can't open your files with MS Office" as an excuse for anything, just like before they did not accept the "I don't have the right MS Office version and I can't run this document full of Macros" as an excuse.

 

Where I live (Italy) more and more PCs of institutions and public administrations are migrated to linux for the same reason. It's the business segment that can't do this, but if it keeps going like this they will have less and less reasons to buy new Windows boxes, and MS Office will be dead or at least back to "one of may office suites" status within 5 years (and take Windows down with it).

 

Although I guess Italy does also conform to the "nations that know dictators" too.

 

 

Btw, also China government is backing Ubuntu Kylin (again a slightly customized Ubuntu) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Kylin

And running their own linux-based Kylin Linux on government and military PCs (trumpeting about how safer it is from cyberwarfare).

bobafetthotmail is offline  
post #82 of 142 Old 05-21-2014, 06:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
balky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 56
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/05/china-bans-windows-8-government-computers

Keep in mind that one the lamest excuses for starting the DRM B$ is to get the Chinese to pay for ALL copies of windows used in China...

Funny how things can turn around... biggrin.gif
balky is offline  
post #83 of 142 Old 05-21-2014, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post

It's more like being cheap coupled with a position of clear power, although local. They can run linux on the same hardware that had XP on it, and are in a position where it's everyone else that has to conform to their standards.



Although I guess Italy does also conform to the "nations that know dictators" too.

I was gonna reference the F-word
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

and coincidentally, the article claims it "originated in Italy" around WW1 wink.gif

More to the point, I think municipalities and governments worldwide are sensitive to both the NSA issue
https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

and the related issue of forced cooperation between NSA-esque entities worldwide (not just the US) and software/internet companies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

Of course, the entire FOSS community and FSF has been warning everyone about these outcomes, which is the raison d^etre for GPL'd software and FOSS from their inception ~25 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#History

and similar predictions about DRM and excessive IP enforcement (whether eBooks, copyrighted video and audio, etc)
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Rgb is offline  
post #84 of 142 Old 05-21-2014, 02:29 PM
Member
 
bobafetthotmail's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 40

Heh, it's called Fascism 'cuz we were first with Mussolini. Hitler just borrowed the best ideas for his own pet project. A debatable honor, but these times you take what little you can get.

 

As for the issues you raise, I'm pretty sure that everyone in charge here is totally clueless.

The lack of usefulness or competence in any field is staggering. They are clearly there only because they are good at pubblic relations, but you can't do much with that alone.

They only see the numbers on the cost sheet, and if what they told me is true, linux won in at least 3 occasions only because it has large support and fanboys within the ranks of the technicians tasked to keep the fleet of aging boxes online. They used Linux as a counteroffer to what the "IT consultants" proposed. (which was in all three cases something stupid and horribly expensive involving those cursed Wyse thin clients)

 

I don't see how Linux is going to protect us from snooping though.

 

Once we have a decent penetration of open source software, we need open hardware as well, so we can make our own networks to screw snooping. Wireless mesh (a newer wifi implementation where there are no more data cables, only a mass of wifi routers connected together, dynamically load balancing and compensating for losses) seems a good candidate for this.

Atm the only way is Tor or similar anonimity networks, but they tend to suck a bit as far as performance.

bobafetthotmail is offline  
post #85 of 142 Old 05-22-2014, 03:23 AM - Thread Starter
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafetthotmail View Post

Heh, it's called Fascism 'cuz we were first with Mussolini. Hitler just borrowed the best ideas for his own pet project. A debatable honor, but these times you take what little you can get.

Godwin'ned!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

biggrin.gif

Yes, the Global Surveillance State is a hot public topic now and for the coming years.

But we shouldn't let this thread devolve into excessive political talk- try to stick to practical solutions and HOWTO posts (includes me wink.gif )
Rgb is offline  
post #86 of 142 Old 05-22-2014, 04:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

But we shouldn't let this thread devolve into excessive political talk- try to stick to practical solutions and HOWTO posts (includes me wink.gif )

I agree.

I tried Lubuntu. It was way too minimalistic for WinXP users. It is rather difficult to customize things, as there is no one-stop settings app.

I currently am trying Kubuntu. I find it rather bloated and slow to boot. And it is not very intuitive, WinXP users would find it very difficult to use.

I am going to dump Kubuntu and try Xubuntu. If that doesn't work I'll fall back on two that I know work well: openSUSE and Fedora. But those may be difficult for WinXP people, as they use the Gnome Desktop.
waterhead is offline  
post #87 of 142 Old 05-22-2014, 05:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
waterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Bye the way.

I have to upgrade my Mother's computer. It is using a version of Ubuntu when it still had Gnome 2 as it's desktop. Whenever she goes to Yahoo to check her email, it says to upgrade Firefox, and offers a download for it!

Before this she had a WinXP laptop, which eventually died. I built her an ION based mini PC, and made everything look like WinXP. I even used the WinXP desktop picture! I also made Desktop shortcut just like I did on her WinXP laptop. But, she complained that "everything is different".
She had never even used a computer before I gave her the WinXP laptop, but she caught the Windows virus real fast!

Now I dread giving her a completely new interface. I put Zorin on a co-workers laptop, and I liked it. He had Vista on it, and the hard drive died. I said I will put an unused drive in it, but I refused to install Vista! He hasn't said how he likes it, but he doesn't use it much. He wanted Skype and Firefox, which I installed for him.

One good thing about Zorin is that you can upgrade it just like Ubuntu, from what it is based on. You can't do that with Linux Mint.
waterhead is offline  
post #88 of 142 Old 05-22-2014, 06:55 PM
Senior Member
 
sysadmin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhead View Post

I agree.

I tried Lubuntu. It was way too minimalistic for WinXP users. It is rather difficult to customize things, as there is no one-stop settings app.

I currently am trying Kubuntu. I find it rather bloated and slow to boot. And it is not very intuitive, WinXP users would find it very difficult to use.

I am going to dump Kubuntu and try Xubuntu. If that doesn't work I'll fall back on two that I know work well: openSUSE and Fedora. But those may be difficult for WinXP people, as they use the Gnome Desktop.

openSUSE uses KDE by default, but you can select any desktop during install.
sysadmin is offline  
post #89 of 142 Old 05-22-2014, 07:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
StardogChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,044
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 136
I spent a lot of time looking for a Windows-like distro that would work for my kids. It needed to have menus work pretty much the same and Flash out of the box.

http://peppermintos.com/

I (we) are very happy with it. It runs on just about anything and therefore I've been able to repurpose old laptops people no longer wanted into working PCs for kids. Flash and proprietary wireless drivers are a snap.

 

 

StardogChampion is offline  
post #90 of 142 Old 05-23-2014, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
Rgb
AVS Special Member
 
Rgb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 6,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

I spent a lot of time looking for a Windows-like distro that would work for my kids. It needed to have menus work pretty much the same and Flash out of the box.

http://peppermintos.com/

I (we) are very happy with it. It runs on just about anything and therefore I've been able to repurpose old laptops people no longer wanted into working PCs for kids. Flash and proprietary wireless drivers are a snap.

For those questioning the suitability of LXDE for Windows converts, Peppermint uses LXDE
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=peppermint

That said, I think the Peppermint guys should have used XFCE instead. I think XFCE addresses waterhead's "too stripped down" issue re: LXDE


Both LXDE and XFCE have many options for WinXP/7 themes and add ons to make them look/act like XP or Win7:

http://xfce-look.org/content/show.php/Lubuntu+XP+three+flavors?content=162880

http://www.noobslab.com/2014/01/windows-xp-theme-is-available-for.html

http://www.noobslab.com/2013/11/just-moved-from-windows-linux-can-wear.html

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/windows-xp-theme-lubuntu

Some/all(?) may work with both LXDE and XFCE
Rgb is offline  
Reply HTPC - Linux Chat

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off