High End 7.1 Processor - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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It has been years since I last upgraded and looked for a high quality processor - and much to my surprise, when I search for a 7.1 processor with all the appropiate audio schemes as well as HDMI audio input needed for bandwidth, it seems that the high end doesn't exist any longer

Krell and Theta have some older designs that don't seem to play all that well with what is needed for state of the art. Clearly without hdmi audio, they do not have the bandwidth to pass what is available from all codecs these days.

When people start talking about Yamaha, Denon, Integra, Pioneer, Sony and Onkyo Receivers, I have to wonder what has happened to the High End?

Is there a good list of high end processors out there that at least pass everything one needs today, that one could use as a good starting point to start researching?

Just what are the top of the line Home Theaters using these days?
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post #2 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 12:28 AM
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Not exactly high end, but Denon's new preamp (AVP-A1HDCI) does have all of the HD audio capabilities, 1.3a, etc. MSRP is $7k. Not many have worked with it yet as it is just now hitting the streets. There are some posts in the audio threads, but no quality reviews at this point.

Krell is also approaching the release of the 707, which is also planned to have it all, including 8.4 ch. ($25-30K?)

The other manufacturers are still digging around their tool bags.

Jim
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post #3 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:15 AM
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HDMI happened to high-end. it's going to kill off quite a few small companies.

John
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post #4 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:30 AM
 
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I still like my Lexicon MC12HD Balanced. It has HDMI 1.3. along with 108op24. It serves my needs well.
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post #5 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

I still like my Lexicon MC12HD Balanced. It has HDMI 1.3.

I think it's HDMI 1.1 (since it was released before HDMI 1.3 parts were widely available).

Sanjay

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post #6 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:44 AM
 
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Sorry but the new one is HDMI 1.3
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post #7 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:45 AM
 
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oops it is 1.2.My error
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post #8 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:48 AM
 
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post #9 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I think it's HDMI 1.1 (since it was released before HDMI 1.3 parts were widely available).

Sanjay

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

Sorry but the new one is HDMI 1.3

Hmm, I think Sanjay is correct. I know when the MC-12HD first came out it was definitely 1.1. If Lexicon had switched over to 1.3 I would think there would have been some press about it somewhere.

I'm currently thinking about upgrading my MC-12 V5EQ to the HD while the new trade-in program is around. HDMI 1.3 would indeed be a bonus

Rod

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post #10 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:53 AM
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This thread may be of some assistance:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940065

"Man plans, God laughs"
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post #11 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 07:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mozvz View Post

This thread may be of some assistance:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940065

I agree and remember it well
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post #12 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 08:01 AM
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Quote:

That looks to me like a firmware patch release for interoperability with HDMI 1.3 devices. It doesn't say it is HDMI 1.3 or even 1.2. HDMI version is controlled by the chip used for transmission and receiving.

To to best of my research it is HDMI 1.1. If you hear different please let me know.
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post #13 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 08:03 AM
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Quote:

That is talking about software version 1.2 for the Lexicon (the 1080p upgrade) not HDMI v1.2. The MC-12HD is HDMI v1.1.

Shawn
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post #14 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 08:05 AM
 
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My BluRay Player outputs 1.3 and my PJ receives 1.3
Never had an issue with compatibility
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post #15 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 08:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

That is talking about software version 1.2 for the Lexicon (the 1080p upgrade) not HDMI v1.2. The MC-12HD is HDMI v1.1.

Shawn

Thanks Shawn
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post #16 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 08:51 AM
 
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Shawn is correct. The Lexicon is HDMI 1.1 but will accept HDMI 1.3 video pass through. As per Lexicon yesterday when I had to ask them about their upgrade. So my guess is it will handle new codes as PCM only (L or M) take your branding however way you want).

The EVO 707 from Krell will be HDMI 1.3. Most likely units will be shipped in April though a few may trickle ou end of this month.

Richard
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post #17 of 371 Old 03-05-2008, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

It has been years since I last upgraded and looked for a high quality processor - and much to my surprise, when I search for a 7.1 processor with all the appropiate audio schemes as well as HDMI audio input needed for bandwidth, it seems that the high end doesn't exist any longer

Krell and Theta have some older designs that don't seem to play all that well with what is needed for state of the art. Clearly without hdmi audio, they do not have the bandwidth to pass what is available from all codecs these days.

When people start talking about Yamaha, Denon, Integra, Pioneer, Sony and Onkyo Receivers, I have to wonder what has happened to the High End?

Is there a good list of high end processors out there that at least pass everything one needs today, that one could use as a good starting point to start researching?

Just what are the top of the line Home Theaters using these days?


The high end companies are also small companies. They have limited resources. All the new technologies have essentially left them behind. Halcro and Cary seems to be catching up though. If the technology remains stationary for a few years, you will see high end components again. But, this does not mean the high end is any better than the Denons and the Yamahas in the DSP portion of their design. They may be better in the analog sections of their design.

Someday, it would be nice to see measurements of the jitter in the DACs of all these receivers. I think we are down to this being the only differentiating issue between all these units.
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post #18 of 371 Old 03-24-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSRichard View Post

Shawn is correct. The Lexicon is HDMI 1.1 but will accept HDMI 1.3 video pass through. As per Lexicon yesterday when I had to ask them about their upgrade. So my guess is it will handle new codes as PCM only (L or M) take your branding however way you want).

The EVO 707 from Krell will be HDMI 1.3. Most likely units will be shipped in April though a few may trickle ou end of this month.

Richard

I just want to confirm that unfortunatly there is NO upgrade for HDMI.If the proc is HDMI 1.1 it will always be 1.1 !
And the Lex MC12HD is 1.1
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post #19 of 371 Old 03-24-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZIMMERLI THIERRY View Post

I just want to confirm that unfortunatly there is NO upgrade for HDMI.If the proc is HDMI 1.1 it will always be 1.1 !

If a manufacturer wanted to rip out the HDMI 1.1 connectors and boards in their pre-pro and install HDMI 1.3 parts, there's nothing to stop them from physically doing so. But that sort of 'upgrade' would likely be a poor business decision, so I doubt you'll ever see it. For all intents and purposes, you are correct: a HDMI 1.1 device will remain so.
Quote:


And the Lex MC12HD is 1.1

Correct.

Sanjay

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post #20 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 12:09 PM
 
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Krell's S1000 will have an upgrade program from HDMI video pass through to HDMI 1.3 audio and video.

Richard
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post #21 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 12:25 PM
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I think the two pre/pros to keep an eye on are the Cary Cinema 11a and Cinema 11v Combo in the more reasonably priced segment, and the Classe SSP800 in the <=$10k segment.
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post #22 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 12:27 PM
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in terms of bang for the buck, i think the integra 9.8 is great for what it does but many reviews indicate its sq is definitely not worth more than its price point. for example, a recent comparison between the 9.8 and a denon 4308 indicated the denon was superior in every shape and form (according to the reviewer), albeit at a much higher price. i really think the denon 5308 receiver and new avp pre/pro is an excellent piece spec wise and all reports indicate its sq is excellent and it has no hiccups with anything. obviously time will tell as there are not very many avp around yet, but definitely very positive feedback for this piece. i have my 2 channel setup that i may end up downsizing if this piece is as good as people say for its 2 channel performance. also, if any modding companies take it to the next level with a tube stage, it may end up being a fantastic unit.

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post #23 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 12:38 PM
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in terms of bang for the buck, i think the integra 9.8 is great for what it does but many reviews indicate its sq is definitely not worth more than its price point. for example, a recent comparison between the 9.8 and a denon 4308 indicated the denon was superior in every shape and form (according to the reviewer), albeit at a much higher price. i really think the denon 5308 receiver and new avp pre/pro is an excellent piece spec wise and all reports indicate its sq is excellent and it has no hiccups with anything. obviously time will tell as there are not very many avp around yet, but definitely very positive feedback for this piece. i have my 2 channel setup that i may end up downsizing if this piece is as good as people say for its 2 channel performance. also, if any modding companies take it to the next level with a tube stage, it may end up being a fantastic unit.


While the Integra and it's cousin the Onkyo Pro offer numerous features for a reasonable sum of money, I believe the thread title is "High End 7.1 Processor", the operative term being "High End". I think it's fair to say the Integra and Onkyo are lower Mid-Fi products and do not qualify as High-End.

I must agree with you that these units are not worth any more than their current price points. Considering the numerous, known issues with the platform, they may not even be worth their respective prices?
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post #24 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 12:59 PM
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agreed. the integra is mid-fi not because of its price, but from its performance. the denon however (although i haven't heard it personally) may be just as good as any "high-end" pre/pro available right now, but it is the ONLY one that can do everything it advertises without any hiccups. all the other "high-end" pre/pro's available now in one way or another have a problem with something, whether it being decoding hd codecs, etc. plus you get an excellent video processor in the unit, which is an added bonus. i think many are discounting the denon simply because they are not a "high-end" company like halcro, theta, lexicon, etc. but it may very well prove to be the next killer piece for its price. the anthem d2 is also an excellent piece for the money (at the time), but not so much anymore.

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post #25 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

agreed. the integra is mid-fi not because of its price, but from its performance. the denon however (although i haven't heard it personally) may be just as good as any "high-end" pre/pro available right now, but it is the ONLY one that can do everything it advertises without any hiccups. all the other "high-end" pre/pro's available now in one way or another have a problem with something, whether it being decoding hd codecs, etc. plus you get an excellent video processor in the unit, which is an added bonus. i think many are discounting the denon simply because they are not a "high-end" company like halcro, theta, lexicon, etc. but it may very well prove to be the next killer piece for its price. the anthem d2 is also an excellent piece for the money (at the time), but not so much anymore.

As for the Denon, it may very well be a great interim solution for some and a long term investment for others. They make quality gear. Not high-end, but excellent Mid-Fi nonetheless.

The Anthem D2 has recently received the ARC (Automatic Room Correction) upgrade. I'm not a fan of Anthem, but they try hard and I've recently heard good things about the updated D2. It's still not capable of handling HBR audio and is lacking HDMI 1.3.
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post #26 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

It has been years since I last upgraded and looked for a high quality processor - and much to my surprise, when I search for a 7.1 processor with all the appropiate audio schemes as well as HDMI audio input needed for bandwidth, it seems that the high end doesn't exist any longer

Krell and Theta have some older designs that don't seem to play all that well with what is needed for state of the art. Clearly without hdmi audio, they do not have the bandwidth to pass what is available from all codecs these days.

When people start talking about Yamaha, Denon, Integra, Pioneer, Sony and Onkyo Receivers, I have to wonder what has happened to the High End?

Is there a good list of high end processors out there that at least pass everything one needs today, that one could use as a good starting point to start researching?

Just what are the top of the line Home Theaters using these days?

I would suggest looking at the Halcro SSP-200. It is HDMI 1.3b and handles MCPCM. You would then only need to find a player that can processes the new codecs and send out audio via PCM such as the Denon DVD-3800BDCI.
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post #27 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLPIII View Post

I would suggest looking at the Halcro SSP-200. It is HDMI 1.3b and handles MCPCM. You would then only need to find a player that can processes the new codecs and send out audio via PCM such as the Denon DVD-3800BDCI.

The Halcro is NOT HDMI 1.3.

Do your homework!
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post #28 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodynamics View Post

The Halcro is NOT HDMI 1.3.

Do your homework!

The latest SSP-200 is! I have it!
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post #29 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 02:07 PM
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The latest SSP-200 is! I have it!

Provide documentation please.
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post #30 of 371 Old 03-25-2008, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLPIII View Post

I would suggest looking at the Halcro SSP-200. It is HDMI 1.3b and handles MCPCM. You would then only need to find a player that can processes the new codecs and send out audio via PCM such as the Denon DVD-3800BDCI.

I would instead recommend the Denon AVP. It has comparable SQ to the Halcro, without the numerous headaches.
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