SIM2 C3X1080 HDMI Inputs, DP Titan DVI Input - AVS Forum

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Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

wuffzack's Avatar wuffzack
01:06 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 13
03-23-2008 | Posts: 93
Joined: Nov 2006
I am still undecided which projector to buy. I narrowed it down to two devices:

The SIM2 C3X1080 and the DP Titan 1080p-250

The SIM2 HT-5000 is too big and heavy for my projection booth (yes, the Titan is smaller and would fit, the HT-5000 doesn't).

I have studied the manuals of both machines and have two important questions:

1.) SIM2 C3X1080:
The manual says nothing useful about the HDMI inputs. Is it possible to adjust the video level? (Normal / Full (computer) )

2.) DP Titan 1080p-250
I favor the Titan over the C3X (I like the case, easy to mount upside down, brighter), but the lack of a HDMI input scares me. Again, the manual says nothing useful about the DVI input:
Is it possible to adjust the video level? (Normal / Full (computer) )
Can color differential signals be used on the input ("HDMI" just with a different connector for robustness?), or is it RGB only?

If someone owns/knows the C3X or Titan and knows the answer, I would be greatful. Thanks in advance!
coldmachine's Avatar coldmachine
01:43 PM Liked: 11
post #2 of 13
03-23-2008 | Posts: 5,807
Joined: Nov 2006
A quick heads up before you throw down any money.

I, and other members here, have seen the Titan 250 a few times. Not an impressive machine at all.To me it was soft, washed out, and with low contrast. Make sure you get a demo. I'm also not sure what its D65 lumens are but can assure you its not near as bright as the HT5000 so don't bank on it being necessarily being much brighter than the 1080. Its contrast is also far lower, certainly NOT the claimed 5000 and certainly nowhere near the 7000+ of the C3X1080.

It was reported here that its bigger brother, the Titan Reference, is a different story, but I've not had a chance to see it.
wuffzack's Avatar wuffzack
05:07 PM Liked: 10
post #3 of 13
03-23-2008 | Posts: 93
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

A quick heads up before you throw down any money.

I, and other members here, have seen the Titan 250 a few times. Not an impressive machine at all.To me it was soft, washed out, and with low contrast. Make sure you get a demo. I'm also not sure what its D65 lumens are but can assure you its not near as bright as the HT5000 so don't bank on it being necessarily being much brighter than the 1080. Its contrast is also far lower, certainly NOT the claimed 5000 and certainly nowhere near the 7000+ of the C3X1080.

It was reported here that its bigger brother, the Titan Reference, is a different story, but I've not had a chance to see it.

CM, thanks a lot for your input, greatly appreciated! I haven't seen the Titan yet, but I was going to do in 1-2 weeks. I had the impression that the claimed 2000 Ansi Lumens were at D65, but I may be completely wrong.

Regarding the C3X1080, do you know, if the video level of the HDMI inputs can be easily switched from standard to enhanced and back with the remote (similar to the JVC RS-1)?
My old HT-500E-Link did *not* have such a setting, and I haven't found anything in the C3X manual that such a setting is present (that doesn't mean much, as the SIM2 manuals are often incomplete and aren't updated if new options are added via firmware upgrades).

Thank you for your help!
Alan Gouger's Avatar Alan Gouger
05:17 PM Liked: 16
post #4 of 13
03-23-2008 | Posts: 18,728
Joined: Jan 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post


Regarding the C3X1080, do you know, if the video level of the HDMI inputs can be easily switched from standard to enhanced and back with the remote (similar to the JVC RS-1)?
My old HT-500E-Link did *not* have such a setting, and I haven't found anything in the C3X manual that such a setting is present (that doesn't mean much, as the SIM2 manuals are often incomplete and aren't updated if new options are added via firmware upgrades).

Thank you for your help!

No dedicated button or direct access for this but it is a feature selection in the menu. You have a choice of ether video or PC level and you can put the selection in Auto mode as well.
wuffzack's Avatar wuffzack
05:31 PM Liked: 10
post #5 of 13
03-23-2008 | Posts: 93
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

No dedicated button or direct access for this but it is a feature selection in the menu. You have a choice of ether video or PC level and you can put the selection in Auto mode as well.

Thanks Alan, but you managed to confuse me a little bit. How can a display device have an automatic setting for the video level? Automatic switching from RGB to color differential isn't a problem, but video level? Without feeding a test pattern as a reference the projector doesn't know if the picture is just "gray fog" with video level or black with enhanced level (unless there is some control line from the source which informs the projector of the desired setting, but I doubt it).
Anyway, as long as it can be set up somehow to one level or the other, I am happy.
Alan Gouger's Avatar Alan Gouger
09:55 PM Liked: 16
post #6 of 13
03-23-2008 | Posts: 18,728
Joined: Jan 1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post

Thanks Alan, but you managed to confuse me a little bit. How can a display device have an automatic setting for the video level? Automatic switching from RGB to color differential isn't a problem, but video level? Without feeding a test pattern as a reference the projector doesn't know if the picture is just "gray fog" with video level or black with enhanced level (unless there is some control line from the source which informs the projector of the desired setting, but I doubt it).
Anyway, as long as it can be set up somehow to one level or the other, I am happy.

I agree with you I would never use the Auto mode. Ive never put it through its paces with a test disc to know if it can be tricked but it is one of
the settings offered.
hhelmut's Avatar hhelmut
04:04 AM Liked: 10
post #7 of 13
03-24-2008 | Posts: 518
Joined: Jul 2001
@wuffzack

you quote:
______________
1.) SIM2 C3X1080:
The manual says nothing useful about the HDMI inputs. Is it possible to adjust the video level? (Normal / Full (computer) )
_____________

Using the HDMI input

It depends on the signal; will it be a YUV signal, there is no possibility to adjust. this will be given by definition of a YUV signal, the level will be 16-235

will you use a RGB signal than you have in menue three possibilities. Automatic, 16-235 or 0-255,

But if you are using the RGB signal and you want to adjust it, please also set the output from the source also RGB and set normal (16-235) or enhanced (0-255) according to the signal level in the projector.

Try it with Casino Royal - you will see the diference

hhelmut
RICHARDAVOGEL's Avatar RICHARDAVOGEL
11:23 AM Liked: 10
post #8 of 13
03-24-2008 | Posts: 13
Joined: Nov 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

A quick heads up before you throw down any money.

I, and other members here, have seen the Titan 250 a few times. Not an impressive machine at all.To me it was soft, washed out, and with low contrast. Make sure you get a demo. I'm also not sure what its D65 lumens are but can assure you its not near as bright as the HT5000 so don't bank on it being necessarily being much brighter than the 1080. Its contrast is also far lower, certainly NOT the claimed 5000 and certainly nowhere near the 7000+ of the C3X1080.

It was reported here that its bigger brother, the Titan Reference, is a different story, but I've not had a chance to see it.

I now have 750 hours on my Titan 1080p-250. It is a GREAT projector!!! Each unit ships with test data. When shipped my unit exceeded factory specs by about 5% for both brightness and contrast. It is not soft, not washed out and has superb contrast - see my AVS report here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900014
Please view any projector you are considering in a properly set up room. Do not place too much weight on comments from shows or casual opinions.

I use the DVI input with a HDMI to DVI cable. I would be pleased to provide more details if required. You can view the user manual here:

http://www.digitalprojection.com/com.../ascdesc,DESC/
digitalgw's Avatar digitalgw
11:51 AM Liked: 10
post #9 of 13
03-24-2008 | Posts: 10
Joined: Aug 2005
I'm not sure where, or under what conditions the Titan 1080P 250 was viewed as washed out and soft, but if anyone wants to provide a C3X, I would be happy to do a quantitative analysis with test patterns and a spot meter. We can post all results and pictures.
Pete's Avatar Pete
04:41 PM Liked: 29
post #10 of 13
03-24-2008 | Posts: 2,679
Joined: Jan 2001
I have seen the Titan 250 and it did look pretty good...perhaps even on a parr with the C3X 1080. It costs more than the C3X 1080, however, and I couldn't justify the extra expense. The Titan does have slightly more vertical lens shift.
katzha's Avatar katzha
07:08 PM Liked: 10
post #11 of 13
03-24-2008 | Posts: 15
Joined: Apr 2002
I have the Titan Reference and am very pleased with it. I preferred it over either of the Sim2 1080p's.
coldmachine's Avatar coldmachine
07:43 PM Liked: 11
post #12 of 13
03-24-2008 | Posts: 5,807
Joined: Nov 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzha View Post

I have the Titan Reference and am very pleased with it. I preferred it over either of the Sim2 1080p's.

Id like to see a Reference as I've heard good things.

What are your calibrated numbers and what size screen are you using.


Its also nice to see 3 low post count members come out at exactly the same time for the same machines. and have a review posted with this as the URL to the screen shots............http://cineramax.com/TITAN.htm. . I also note that this member has already been involved in accusations of just being Peter in disguise.
RICHARDAVOGEL's Avatar RICHARDAVOGEL
02:55 PM Liked: 10
post #13 of 13
03-25-2008 | Posts: 13
Joined: Nov 2002
As has been noted, I am not "Peter in disguise" although I did purchase my Titan through him.

My screen is 120" diag. 16 x 9 VuTec Matte White (1.0 gain). Seating distance is 18 ft. Room is 22' x 24' x 20' with beige walls, dark area rug and dark wood ceiling. All windows are sealed against light intrusion, but the room is multipurpose, and not totally dark. Projector is 19' from the screen and mounted upside down, with the center of the lens even with the top of the screen. Upside down mount is not necessary, as the lens is symmetrical-the up/down shift capability is identical. Ideally the projector would be mounted on the center axis of the screen. With this setup I am using about 50% of the lens shift range.

Sorry, but I have no calibrated numbers to report. The Titan shipped directly to me from the factory last July. It looked so good out of the box that I did not consider independent calibration. The lamp has 750 hours, so I am planning calibration after breaking in a new bulb in about 4 months or so.

As to the original question, this is my understanding (caveat: I am a ceramic, not electrical engineer): There is no level adjustment for the DVI input. The Titan syncs to the incoming signal each time a data stream is detected. In other words, turn on the projector, turn on the signal source (DVD player or whatever) and wait a few seconds for the Titan to detect the input - 480, 1080I, 1080p, etc. Any signal with less than 1080p resolution is upconverted. If the signal source changes the Titan detects the new signal and adjusts accordingly. There are other (component) inputs, but I have never used them. As far as I can tell there is no downside to not having an HDMI input, since sound is handled with a separate processor. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
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