Sim Audio moon CP-8 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-29-2008, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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As you all probably have seen by now Canadian high-end company Sim Audio has launched pictures and details of their forthcomming CP-8 HDMI 1.3 spec processor.
I`m a little dissapointed though, the CP-8 only has 2 HDMI innputs and 1 output.
But looking at the specs it is pretty obvious that this is still a product in the making, on the bottom of the page it also says: "Preliminary features & specifications are subject to change without notice."

I was wondering if any of the fine folks on avsforum might have more info about the CP-8 and how manny HDMI inn/outs we can expect and other goodies.
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post #2 of 23 Old 06-29-2008, 07:07 PM
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http://uk.cinenow.com/videos/1368-si...amplifier-2008

If it only has two HDMI inputs, that sure doesn't say much, does it? These days one wants at least four, if not five or six, HDMI inputs; and two HDMI outputs are nice, too.

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post #3 of 23 Old 06-29-2008, 08:55 PM
 
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If that is not enough you can just run a HDMI splitter and have as many as you want/need.
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-30-2008, 06:59 PM
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There is a separate video switcher that can be added as a slave to the CP-8 called the HDS-8. Retail is $2k and provides four additional hdmi inputs.

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post #5 of 23 Old 06-30-2008, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tmueller View Post

There is a separate video switcher that can be added as a slave to the CP-8 called the HDS-8. Retail is $2k and provides four additional hdmi inputs.

2 grand for a video switcher only!!! Seriously. You can buy one for a few hundred bucks for that purpose. Are the Sim2's two HDMI inputs only going to be video and not audio?

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post #6 of 23 Old 06-30-2008, 08:24 PM
 
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There is a separate video switcher that can be added as a slave to the CP-8 called the HDS-8. Retail is $2k and provides four additional hdmi inputs.

As stated you can buy a audio/video switch for $100.
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-02-2008, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah of course you can buy a HDMI swich (i actually have a gefen 4x2 in my drawer)
But the purpose is to have as few components and remote controls as possible.
I`d rather see Sim Audio ditching alot of the legacy innputs in favour of 6 or 8HDMI innputs.
If the picture on Sim audio`s web site is representative of how the final product is gonna be i guess i have to wait and see what Theta, Lexicon and Classè are bringing to the table.
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-03-2008, 04:07 PM
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The HDMI switcher Simaudio is introducing is supposedly an "extremely high performance" piece, I've been told. It adds an extra 5 inputs, and, according to them, the only way to switch HiDef (if you must switch) if your display device is of sufficient quality to see the flaws in virtually all switchers. I too think that 2k is a lot of change, but compared to the $18k price, it's minor. $20K all together seems to make sense.
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-03-2008, 06:48 PM
 
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The HDMI switcher Simaudio is introducing is supposedly an "extremely high performance" piece, I've been told.

A high performance switch? You can read reviews of the "cheap" HDMI switches and see that they do not degrade any of the signal.
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post #10 of 23 Old 07-07-2008, 08:33 AM
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An HDMI switcher is not a passive device. A lot more than switching is going on inside, even though the final outcome is that it selects amongst different inputs. It's impact on the video quality can be huge. I've seen tremendous differences in video performance from one pre/pro to another. Yes, all they do is switch video in some cases, up or cross-convert in others. In switching alone, a good switcher can keep noise levels down to substantially.

If you believe a $100 switcher is the same, then that's what you should buy, but I'm telling you that the difference can be huge. Granted, I don't know what a $2k switcher can really do, but if you are running a $250,000 video/HT system, you DON'T put a $100 switcher. That's a given.
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-07-2008, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwank View Post

An HDMI switcher is not a passive device. A lot more than switching is going on inside, even though the final outcome is that it selects amongst different inputs. It's impact on the video quality can be huge. I've seen tremendous differences in video performance from one pre/pro to another. Yes, all they do is switch video in some cases, up or cross-convert in others. In switching alone, a good switcher can keep noise levels down to substantially.

If you believe a $100 switcher is the same, then that's what you should buy, but I'm telling you that the difference can be huge. Granted, I don't know what a $2k switcher can really do, but if you are running a $250,000 video/HT system, you DON'T put a $100 switcher. That's a given.


A number of us with high ticket Sim2 HT5000 or C3X 1080 projectors use a Zektor HDMI switcher which is deemed totally transparent. It don't cost
2 grand. And a few have positively remarked about the Oppo, too. We're talkin' $300 to $500. Far cry from $2,000.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #12 of 23 Old 07-07-2008, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwank View Post

An HDMI switcher is not a passive device. A lot more than switching is going on inside, even though the final outcome is that it selects amongst different inputs. It's impact on the video quality can be huge. I've seen tremendous differences in video performance from one pre/pro to another. Yes, all they do is switch video in some cases, up or cross-convert in others. In switching alone, a good switcher can keep noise levels down to substantially.

If you believe a $100 switcher is the same, then that's what you should buy, but I'm telling you that the difference can be huge. Granted, I don't know what a $2k switcher can really do, but if you are running a $250,000 video/HT system, you DON'T put a $100 switcher. That's a given.



Granted at times you do get a better product but at what cost? That in itself is the problem with "High end" A/V! For instance, I've just paid 18K for said unit so I have to use a 2K switcher because there's no way in Hell a 200 dollar switcher can outperform the 2K switcher because we all know if you paid more for it it's much better than the cheaper product.
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post #13 of 23 Old 07-08-2008, 08:53 AM
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Zecktor makes an outstanding product. I own two of their switch boxs. It would be interesting to see how little of a difference there is between the zecktor unit and a high price one.
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-08-2008, 12:36 PM
 
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Quote:


An HDMI switcher is not a passive device. A lot more than switching is going on inside, even though the final outcome is that it selects amongst different inputs. It's impact on the video quality can be huge. I've seen tremendous differences in video performance from one pre/pro to another. Yes, all they do is switch video in some cases, up or cross-convert in others. In switching alone, a good switcher can keep noise levels down to substantially.

More going on then just switching, are you saying that it some how decodes or changes the audio/video?

Quote:


If you believe a $100 switcher is the same, then that's what you should buy, but I'm telling you that the difference can be huge. Granted, I don't know what a $2k switcher can really do, but if you are running a $250,000 video/HT system, you DON'T put a $100 switcher. That's a given.

What does price have to do with anything? The switch will either work or not and you can benchmark it to see what it can and can't do.

Quote:


I've just paid 18K for said unit so I have to use a 2K switcher because there's no way in Hell a 200 dollar switcher can outperform the 2K switcher because we all know if you paid more for it it's much better than the cheaper product.

That is what a lot of people think.
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post #15 of 23 Old 08-14-2008, 05:09 AM
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When I look at the pictures of the pre-amp at the Moon site, I have the feeling that I'm looking at a Denon amp in a different case. Especially if you compare the displays. Does anyone know wether SimAudio has actually developed this product themselves?


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post #16 of 23 Old 08-14-2008, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdijk View Post

When I look at the pictures of the pre-amp at the Moon site, I have the feeling that I'm looking at a Denon amp in a different case. Especially if you compare the displays. Does anyone know wether SimAudio has actually developed this product themselves?



The Moon looks more like the Rising Sun.
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post #17 of 23 Old 08-16-2008, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdijk View Post

When I look at the pictures of the pre-amp at the Moon site, I have the feeling that I'm looking at a Denon amp in a different case. Especially if you compare the displays. Does anyone know wether SimAudio has actually developed this product themselves?



Wow nicely spotted.
That display looks very familiar indeed (i own a AVR-4308)
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post #18 of 23 Old 08-17-2008, 09:57 PM
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Dont know if they used Denon's display or not, but think about it.

What would make more sense? Spending time and money on developing their own display and delay a product that other companys just are not touching right now and staying ahead of the curve for a processor. OR Save time and money to put out a product that everyone is yearning for right now, but use a pre-made display. Overall, a display is not going to change the SQ...
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post #19 of 23 Old 08-18-2008, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bballer123 View Post

Dont know if they used Denon's display or not, but think about it.

What would make more sense? Spending time and money on developing their own display and delay a product that other companys just are not touching right now and staying ahead of the curve for a processor. OR Save time and money to put out a product that everyone is yearning for right now, but use a pre-made display. Overall, a display is not going to change the SQ...

The point is did it stop at the display, the HDP matrix tekst also hints that it uses more. It could be anything really including a photoshop because they don't have the real model up and running yet. We are kind of expecting some brands to reuse and upgrade prebuild processors since its not easy to make a full 1.3a, upscaling, new formats processor.

I guess thats why alot of us are interested to see how smaller highend companies cope with this new level of digital work and programming that needs to be done. Companies like denon can recover their cost over a whole line for the basic work, their flagships can be loss-leaders.

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post #20 of 23 Old 08-18-2008, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwank View Post

An HDMI switcher is not a passive device. A lot more than switching is going on inside, even though the final outcome is that it selects amongst different inputs. It's impact on the video quality can be huge. I've seen tremendous differences in video performance from one pre/pro to another. Yes, all they do is switch video in some cases, up or cross-convert in others. In switching alone, a good switcher can keep noise levels down to substantially.

If you believe a $100 switcher is the same, then that's what you should buy, but I'm telling you that the difference can be huge. Granted, I don't know what a $2k switcher can really do, but if you are running a $250,000 video/HT system, you DON'T put a $100 switcher. That's a given.

Ok, I will bite. What lot more is going on inside an HDMI switcher than just switching? Are you suggesting that a stand alone HDMI switcher is altering the digital bitstream that is coming over the HDMI cable!?!? Also, what does the performance differences of a pre/pro with how they handle HDMI have to do with how stand alone HDMI switchers work? I don't think the HDMI switchers have video processing chips in them like the pre/pros do and thus the digital video/audio data is not getting altered.

I do think it is possible that a badly designed switcher can add noise or reshape edges of each binary signal and thus shorten the length of a working HDMI connection, by the same token there are models with features that amplify the signal to allow a longer HDMI connection. Some could possibly also introduce handshaking issues with HDCP. But, "impact on the video quality can be huge" from an HDMI switch, I don't see how a stand-alone switch could do such a thing.
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post #21 of 23 Old 08-18-2008, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W. View Post

Ok, I will bite. What lot more is going on inside an HDMI switcher than just switching? Are you suggesting that a stand alone HDMI switcher is altering the digital bitstream that is coming over the HDMI cable!?!? Also, what does the performance differences of a pre/pro with how they handle HDMI have to do with how stand alone HDMI switchers work? I don't think the HDMI switchers have video processing chips in them like the pre/pros do and thus the digital video/audio data is not getting altered.

Unfortunately, it's not quite that easy.

There are 3 classes of device in HDMI, Source, Repeater and Sink. Switches are in the repeater category. There are specifications to properly implement a repeater device. I don't have access to the specs, but there is a fair amount of difference between a participant in the pathway (a repeater) and a passive switcher.

Quote:


I do think it is possible that a badly designed switcher can add noise or reshape edges of each binary signal and thus shorten the length of a working HDMI connection, by the same token there are models with features that amplify the signal to allow a longer HDMI connection. Some could possibly also introduce handshaking issues with HDCP. But, "impact on the video quality can be huge" from an HDMI switch, I don't see how a stand-alone switch could do such a thing.

The extender type switches are performing equalization so that the cable maintains the proper frequency response over the length of the cable.

Cheers,

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post #22 of 23 Old 06-09-2009, 03:25 PM
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Does anyone have one and what are your thoughts?
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post #23 of 23 Old 04-08-2014, 08:44 PM
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I have a CP-8 and and HDS-8.  Is anyone still around in this forum?

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