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post #91 of 118 Old 10-02-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

I don't really care enough to keep engaging either one of you anymore... Good luck finding someone to meet your ridiculous expectations at $1500...

Well, first off. I'm not looking for someone to do anything for me at the moment. Not for $1500, or any other price. Second, Rives is who sets the price points for his services, and indicates what he is supposed to deliver for that price. I only expected what Rives promised. Nothing more, nothing less. And finally, it's YOU who is getting personal and making false accusations about my motives for posting here. So yes. Please stop engaging in this thread.

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post #92 of 118 Old 10-04-2008, 09:32 PM
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I find this thread interesting/funny. I also engaged Rives (Level 2) to design my room (from scratch, over my garage). Fortunately, I was able to do all of the work myself. I got great advice from Richard on everything from building materials, wiring, heating, materials for the shelves, etc. They were always available, and I never had any contentious conversations with anyone. Their plans allowed me to build all of the acoustical treatments with the exception of 4 BAD panels ($800). I haven't called the local dealer yet for the final measurements/tweaking, but even with my admittedly mid-fi setup (saving up money for the good stuff), the bass, detail, imaging, soundstage L-R and F-R is better than anything I've heard in any room (excepting, maybe the Rives dealer). And yes, I also am a musician, and believe I have a realistic basis to judge the sound. I can't really say anything negative about my experience so far. I guess I'm one of the happy 900+ customers Richard was referring to. Back to lurk mode now

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post #93 of 118 Old 10-05-2008, 07:12 AM
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Hmm.. $1500 is a lot of money for some things and very little for others.

Personally, I would look at the cost of good advice as a function of how much money I plan to spend on the room itself along with some factoring in the total cost and sophistication of my equipment.

If I had a system like OB's, I couldn't in good faith hire anyone to consult on my room for $1500 as the cost suggests a low level of detail and sophistication.

Now, if I had a total $10K budget, $1500 is about the limit I would spend on plans and advice

Now if my room budget was $100K, I would skip over any company that offered to meet my spec's for a grand total of $1500. You would have to know that that price would be more commensurate with advice to a low level room design. If he has better more high end equipment and plan to spend a good sum on acoustical work, $1500 would be an unreasonable sum to pay for competent advice.

I don't know what the Rutgar's overall budget is (or what kind of equipment level he has), but if it was in the $10K range, $1500 would be a fair sum to pay in line with his budget.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #94 of 118 Old 10-05-2008, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Hmm.. $1500 is a lot of money for some things and very little for others.

Personally, I would look at the cost of good advice as a function of how much money I plan to spend on the room itself along with some factoring in the total cost and sophistication of my equipment.

If I had a system like OB's, I couldn't in good faith hire anyone to consult on my room for $1500 as the cost suggests a low level of detail and sophistication.

Now, if I had a total $10K budget, $1500 is about the limit I would spend on plans and advice

Now if my room budget was $100K, I would skip over any company that offered to meet my spec's for a grand total of $1500. You would have to know that that price would be more commensurate with advice to a low level room design. If he has better more high end equipment and plan to spend a good sum on acoustical work, $1500 would be an unreasonable sum to pay for competent advice.

I don't know what the Rutgar's overall budget is (or what kind of equipment level he has), but if it was in the $10K range, $1500 would be a fair sum to pay in line with his budget.

I completely agree with that. Queue totally misrepresented what my complaint with Rives is about. It's not about how much money I spent (which was about 12K total including treatments and renovations), but how afterwards, things sounded way worse in the room than they did before I even hired Rives. To me, it's like having a dirty carpet, and hiring someone to clean it, and when they're done, the carpet is even dirtier than before. Same thing when hiring an acoustic adviser. If things sound worse in the room afterwards, then they didn't fulfill their part of the contract. The price paid is completely irrelevant to that.

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post #95 of 118 Old 03-31-2009, 03:40 PM
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has any one used these guys? I heard that they are really good but was wondering if any one had experience with them.

http://keithyates.com/
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post #96 of 118 Old 04-02-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

has any one used these guys? I heard that they are really good but was wondering if any one had experience with them.

http://keithyates.com/

Very well know and quality designer.
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post #97 of 118 Old 04-02-2009, 10:57 AM
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Keith is supposed to be excellent.
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post #98 of 118 Old 04-02-2009, 01:23 PM
 
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He is Elite, best of the best. I have seen some of his work, one of my clients has a room created by him. The Home Theaters and Listening Environments that he creates are amazing. However, perfection comes at a price.
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post #99 of 118 Old 04-02-2009, 01:41 PM
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Keith Yates does an excellent job. If Rives Audio meets your budgetary needs, I think you'll find Keith's fees beyond your threshold of pain.

Dennis Erskine CFI, CFII, MEI
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post #100 of 118 Old 04-02-2009, 01:47 PM
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Since this thread has been revived, I'll just comment that I've been moving my speakers around in my Rives-designed room and have found what I think is the "best" position in terms of compromises in the room. The spikes have been put on the speakers and fine-tuning of the system has begun.

In retrospect, I think it was worth the money spent for Rives. I doubt anyone else would've come to Canada in person for much cheaper and the end result is very pleasing to me and my family in terms of cosmetics and satisfactory to me for the audio portion. It's not a perfect room but the limitations in room height precluded building a perfect room.
I never ended up getting them out for the third visit because I have no intentions of moving the speakers again anyway and can live with the sound as is. I'd just be paying them to drink my wine, listen to my tunes, and take a few measurements.

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post #101 of 118 Old 04-02-2009, 01:51 PM
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The best rooms I have EVER heard were done by this group, Performance Acoustics Labs. Both of the rooms that I heard were previously done by Rives, and I can attest, they sounded horrible. Both were TOTALLY ripped out (tens of thousands of dollars wasted), and redone by PAL.

They are amongst the best rooms many have ever heard.

http://www.performanceacousticslabs....ing_Rooms.html

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post #102 of 118 Old 04-02-2009, 06:42 PM
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There was a dealer in Chicago (Ultimate Audio I think) that had a Rives level 3 room which then changed to a Swedish designed one, I wonder if this is the company? Probably not. I see that the company is owned by Harmonic Resolution Systems. I heard one of their prefab room "systems" locally. It cost either 20k or 40k and was quite mediocre imho. A lot of money for stuff you just hang on the walls. Might have been worth it if it performed like you'd expect for the cost but it didn't.
I'd love to "hear" a Keith Yates room...one day.

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post #103 of 118 Old 04-19-2009, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post

There was a dealer in Chicago (Ultimate Audio I think) that had a Rives level 3 room which then changed to a Swedish designed one, I wonder if this is the company? Probably not. I see that the company is owned by Harmonic Resolution Systems. I heard one of their prefab room "systems" locally. It cost either 20k or 40k and was quite mediocre imho. A lot of money for stuff you just hang on the walls. Might have been worth it if it performed like you'd expect for the cost but it didn't.
I'd love to "hear" a Keith Yates room...one day.

We had two Rives level 3 rooms at Ultimate Audio Video which we eventually had redesigned by Svanå Miljö Teknik in Sweden. They did the design work and supplied the acoustical treatment products. One of the rooms can be viewed on the home page of their sight, http://diffusor.com/. These rooms are now designed and built through Performance Acoustics Labs (PAL) in the US.

Based on conversation with Mike Latvis of PAL, they have not supplied any prefab systems, nor designed any rooms in Canada yet.

I can safely say that I am very familiar with the acoustic measurements and sonic performance of two PAL rooms. They are spactacular! I cannot recommend them highly enough.

Ron Lapporte

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www.bluesmokesystems.com
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post #104 of 118 Old 04-20-2009, 02:07 PM
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Ah, thanks Ron. I thought I'd read somewhere (Jeff Fritz's thread)that you were part of the Chicago dealership before going to Blue Smoke.

I guess I won't get to hear your Chicago rooms after all. I'd be interested in your candid opinion on Rives and other rooms - perhaps someday in person. The forums are probably not the best place to get into this.

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post #105 of 118 Old 01-09-2010, 06:58 AM
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When I mentioned "bass trap contraption" above I was referring to this bass trap soffit design:






Rives Audio spec'd the exact same thing for me. I looked at it with some curiosity. It's a soffit cavity only lined with fiberglass, and then with a board with fiberglass on it hanging at an angle in the middle, suspended. !

This isn't a trick question; I'm genuinely interested, but can anyone explain why this works better than just stuffing the soffit full of insulation and covering it with cloth? Or more specifically, explain why it is sufficiently better that it is worth it to go to the extra trouble?

The more typical bass trap soffit just stuffed with insulation is discussed in this very helpful thread (which oddly contains a good post on what a sabine is!)

just wanted to ask one more time for anyone to explain this rube goldberg design of a bass trap.
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post #106 of 118 Old 07-23-2010, 03:37 PM
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any thoughts on the bass trap above?
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post #107 of 118 Old 07-24-2010, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmisst View Post

any thoughts on the bass trap above?

I have one.
Since there was no A/B on only doing that soffit bass trap it's hard to say how much it adds to the room.
Any specific questions?

Mike

Addendum:
You can barely see my soffit trap in this pic: link.
My HT is on the newest AVS "HT Revealed" DVD so it should show it better.
(I have yet to view the DVD)
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post #108 of 118 Old 07-24-2010, 09:39 PM
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Since this thread has been revived I'll add an update. I have a Rives level 3 room. I never did get the 3rd part (the calibration) done by Rives. I had thought there were some issues with the room and that they wouldn't be solved by calibration alone and felt that would be a waste of money.

I just had Adam Pelz do an audio calibration and I can say that it is remarkable what he was able to do without changing any of the structure of the room. If I started off at 60% satisfaction with my fairly expensive gear and the Rives room then I got up to about 90% satisfaction by the time the calibration was complete. Best money I've spent in a long time. I'll post more details later in the audio calibration thread...

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post #109 of 118 Old 07-25-2010, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post

Since this thread has been revived I'll add an update. I have a Rives level 3 room. I never did get the 3rd part (the calibration) done by Rives. I had thought there were some issues with the room and that they wouldn't be solved by calibration alone and felt that would be a waste of money.

I just had Adam Pelz do an audio calibration and I can say that it is remarkable what he was able to do without changing any of the structure of the room. If I started off at 60% satisfaction with my fairly expensive gear and the Rives room then I got up to about 90% satisfaction by the time the calibration was complete. Best money I've spent in a long time. I'll post more details later in the audio calibration thread...

Cool.
Please post a link from this thread to the other thread(s) when you add.
Thanks,

Mike
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post #110 of 118 Old 07-25-2010, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post

I just had Adam Pelz do an audio calibration and I can say that it is remarkable what he was able to do without changing any of the structure of the room. If I started off at 60% satisfaction with my fairly expensive gear and the Rives room then I got up to about 90% satisfaction by the time the calibration was complete. Best money I've spent in a long time. I'll post more details later in the audio calibration thread...

How much and where is he?
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post #111 of 118 Old 07-25-2010, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

How much and where is he?

His name is Adam Pelz and he posts here occasionally (do a search). He lives in Atlanta but travels extensively (even up here to the Great White North!) I'll leave the "how much" to discuss with him. It's certainly reasonable for what he does and can achieve.

When I get a chance I'll post more details.

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post #112 of 118 Old 07-25-2010, 09:48 PM
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I also have a Rives room (Level 1+ or something like that) and while much of the sonics are OK, there is an upper mid-range glare that makes 2 channel un-listenable at times. I have taken the measurements that Rives asked for, sent them to him and he tells me it is not the room. But given I have tried 4 pair of speakers, 3 pre-amps, 2 dacs, 3 cd players and 3 amps (and untold combination of interconnects, speaker wires and power cords) and continue to have the same problem, the room is the only other possible source of the problem. I have been trying to isolate this problem for 2+ years !!!

Since I live in Atlanta, I fairly recently had Dennis Erskine (who brought Adam Pelz with him) come and take a look/listen and give me a proposal to fix my problem. I have yet to hear anything from them but anxiously await.

As an aside, Rives did my last room and from 100hz up, it was the best room I have ever heard before or since. This time, not so good!
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post #113 of 118 Old 07-26-2010, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I also have a Rives room (Level 1+ or something like that) and while much of the sonics are OK, there is an upper mid-range glare that makes 2 channel un-listenable at times. I have taken the measurements that Rives asked for, sent them to him and he tells me it is not the room. But given I have tried 4 pair of speakers, 3 pre-amps, 2 dacs, 3 cd players and 3 amps (and untold combination of interconnects, speaker wires and power cords) and continue to have the same problem, the room is the only other possible source of the problem. I have been trying to isolate this problem for 2+ years !!!

Since I live in Atlanta, I fairly recently had Dennis Erskine (who brought Adam Pelz with him) come and take a look/listen and give me a proposal to fix my problem. I have yet to hear anything from them but anxiously await.

As an aside, Rives did my last room and from 100hz up, it was the best room I have ever heard before or since. This time, not so good!

I'll PM you later...

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post #114 of 118 Old 07-28-2010, 05:15 AM
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zmisst:

I had the same Rives designed soffit designs. They were a pain in the rear end to construct. Initially I only had a few of the trap locations opened but when I decided to open them all up (the fronts of the unused traps were covered in drywall) I ended up stuffing them all (including the oiginal ones) with the left over 703 that I had. I spent a lot of time reading and researching on soffit traps and the entire universe (less Rives) recommends stuffing them. I specifically paid attention to Ethan Whiner of Real Traps.

I have no way to compare them. My rear corner traps are done the exact same way but they are 8 feet tall.

I once asked Richard about his approach versus everyone elses and he said something to the effect that his approach covered more of the bass frequencies (or something like that).

As an aside Real Traps says there is no such thing as too much bass traping and given I had 4 subs, I was never sure why Rives only had me open about 15% of all of the available soffit traps.

Oh Well !!
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post #115 of 118 Old 07-28-2010, 05:23 AM
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I just checked out the PAL website. LOTS of diffusion and very little visible absorption.
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post #116 of 118 Old 08-15-2010, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Cool.
Please post a link from this thread to the other thread(s) when you add.
Thanks,

Mike

Here it is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post19051493

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post #117 of 118 Old 02-28-2011, 09:27 AM
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Some background:

Some time ago, Rives designed and built a room for a friend (Level 3) that turned out superb. He had just bought some land and was designing a house from the ground up and wanted a new listening room. Rives designed a room within a room and the results were/are spectacular.

As a result of his experience, I contracted Rives to do a level 1 or 1+ or something (don't recall at this time) and the results from 100Hz was the best room I have ever heard. It was an already existing theater/two channel room. The thing, however, I thought quite odd was that he had me build soffits that were not bass traps. The response below 100Hz was no better than before I made the changes and were it not for some very serious digital room correction, would have been unlistenable.

I sold that house, bought another and again contracted Rives to design a new room only this time, it was an almost blank space (studded walls in an unfinished basement).

Once the room was completed it became quickly obvious that something was amiss. There was an upper mid range glare that made listening to music impossible. To eliminate all variables, I tried 4 different pair of speakers, 3 amps, 2 DACS, three preamps, all kinds of cables, power conditioners, etc including moving the speakers to the other end of the room. Nothing helped.

When it became obvious that it had to be the room I contacted Richard and I got the first of many it can't be the room responses. I had another acoustical engineering company come in and they said it was the room. The speaker designer came in, and he said it was the room. A local company who sells acoustical products (GIK) said it was the room. And every time I mentioned this to Richard, he commented: "It can't be the room".

Both GIK and Mark Seaton seemed to think it was the ceiling and when I mentioned this to Richard, I got the response: we've used this ceiling hundreds of times and there has never been an issue.

So no matter what overwhelming evidence I provided that the room was in fact the problem, Richard refused to agree. During this 3-year period, he was in Atlanta twice for CEDIA and refused to come by to listen. All I would get was It's not the room and it's not the ceiling.

Well guess what? Through the data available on AVS and other sites and incredible on-site assistance from GIK, we have fixed the problem. It was the room and it was the ceiling.

The fact that the room sounded horrible is not my primary problem here. What I find totally and completely unacceptable was his refusal to even admit the possibility that the room was the issue when all of the evidence demonstrated otherwise. I could go on but I won't. I wasn't even looking for free. But since he designed the room, I felt (and still do) that he should have owned up and helped me find the problem. He did send me his test equipment which I used and sent him the files and he again said it's not the room!!

While I am sure Rives has lots and lots of satisfied customers, Richard's approach to (no)Customer Service is unacceptable.

Knowing what I know now, I would never consider him for anything other than a level three (and given his approach to customer service, probably not even then). There is more than enough information and resources available to anyone who cares to look at places like GIK, Real Traps, AVS, HomeTheater Shack and no telling how many other places to not need to rely on a company such as Rives for a project the scope of mine.

If I were to ever have another room designed by someone, I would insist on a customer satisfaction clause.

Buyer Beware !!!
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post #118 of 118 Old 02-28-2011, 09:41 AM
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We are offering a new service, Pro Theater Layout, created just for people like you. We will solve all the questions and provide you with a professional layout that shows you exactly where everything belongs for a great home theater experience.

All you will need to provide are the room dimensions and equipment list (If you have a list. If you don't have a list this service even helps you with your purchasing decisions) and a quick description of the room. (Even on the back of a napkin if you can scan it and send it!) Something like the following sketch is all we need to get started:



Once we have this information it is time for Dennis and his team of experts to get to work. They will take your individual room and your unique equipment list and create your room plan. Everything will be taken into consideration and, at the end of the 7 day process, you will be presented with a complete professional theater layout. It's like magic! Here are two samples of the kind of work that Dennis and his team delivers:






We know you are looking forward to turning your room into a beautiful home theater, and our Pro Layout Service will help you get that front and center seat.

Mike_WI is offline  
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

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