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post #271 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 01:06 PM
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Since the Valis has analog outputs:

1) Is there still going to be a Virtu?
2) I wonder what level the DACs are in the Valis (close or equivalent to Premiums, Superior II's, or Extremes) ?

FOR SALE: Wireworld Platinum 6 1M HDMI Cable. Originally $1000, selling for $500 obo. Please PM me, if interested.
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post #272 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 02:01 PM
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I am getting bombarded with HDMI upgrade questions - Wow, I never realized how many of my customers are enjoying their CBIII's and now chomping at the bit to get HDMI..

Well guys , Thanks so much for all the great years of support.. I got a call today asking if I would be taking care of the upgrades for our loyals and of course, we are prioritizing the list already and as everyone knows I will get everyone upgraded timely and cost effectively as well.

I am in communication with Theta many times a week and as things progress I will announce it on the AVS and keep everyone in the loop as well.

As we all know, This card will set the Casablanca III once again in a class that is untouched by any. The fact that we have successfully upgraded this machine for so many years without a hitch is amazing enough but once the HDMI card hits, Man oh man, that separates the men from the boys!!!

Looking forward to keeping you guys updated !

Craig ( Theatermax )
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post #273 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post

I am getting bombarded with HDMI upgrade questions - Wow, I never realized how many of my customers are enjoying their CBIII's and now chomping at the bit to get HDMI..

Well guys , Thanks so much for all the great years of support.. I got a call today asking if I would be taking care of the upgrades for our loyals and of course, we are prioritizing the list already and as everyone knows I will get everyone upgraded timely and cost effectively as well.

I am in communication with Theta many times a week and as things progress I will announce it on the AVS and keep everyone in the loop as well.

As we all know, This card will set the Casablanca III once again in a class that is untouched by any. The fact that we have successfully upgraded this machine for so many years without a hitch is amazing enough but once the HDMI card hits, Man oh man, that separates the men from the boys!!!

Looking forward to keeping you guys updated !

Craig ( Theatermax )

Craig, I am afraid your cell # right now is the hottest thing since phone sex!!!!
You (and Theta Digital) are in a class "untouched by any" (except you by the wife)!!!@@@

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #274 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

FOr the Theta guys, I hope this is true... But I still find it hard to believe. Now granted, compared to others they are already 2-3 years late on HDMI, so really, 'it's about time'.. So, I guess the timings right but I would estimate this comes to be as others (e.g. Lexicon, Meridian) release HDMI 1.3 fully new designed products... 2009?


Jeff, have you got on the list yet for an early CB3 HDMI 1.3 yet???

Theta Digital is now a "full speed ahead" company. ATI, its new owner, has the financial assets and engineering contacts and know how to proceed
"full speed ahead where no one has gone before" (Star Trek). You should get on board before the Enterprise takes off for its five year mission.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #275 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 02:38 PM
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"You should get on board before the Enterprise takes off for its five year mission."

Which is what... bringing HDMI to the Theta? ;0

Shawn
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post #276 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"you should get on board before the enterprise takes off for its five year mission."

which is what... Bringing hdmi to the theta? ;0

shawn

lol
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post #277 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Jeff, have you got on the list yet for an early CB3 HDMI 1.3 yet???

Theta Digital is now a "full speed ahead" company. ATI, its new owner, has the financial assets and engineering contacts and know how to proceed
"full speed ahead where no one has gone before" (Star Trek). You should get on board before the Enterprise takes off for its five year mission.

I wonder if the reason most others are hesitating on HDMI or HDMI 1.3 is because of the new features coming out for processors from DTS and Dolby..

Dolby announced new capabilities that are coming to receivers that likely any new piece will not have (Dolby Volume control, Dolby Dynamics, etc).. DTS has speaker mapping coming which looks very slick and other nicities as well. I wonder if Lexicon / Meridian is waiting on these new features to mature and then bring out a new piece with ALL the new goodies. These features will require new hardware internally.

HDMI audio has been around for 4 years. Theta is finally adding it. I wonder, if in typical Theta 'slow to embrace' form, that after you guys pay $4K for basic HDMI 1.3 audio, that Dolby's and DTS's new add ons (which will require new hardware) will be announced... and then you're behind technology again (or have to wait another 4 years to get it).

As I see it HDMI 1.3 offers nothing over HDMI 1.2 LPCM audio, so the heavies like Lexicon are waiting until they can add something really new like DD and DTS new features (as they already have HDMI audio). Who knows?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #278 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I wonder if the reason most others are hesitating on HDMI or HDMI 1.3 is because of the new features coming out for processors from DTS and Dolby..

Dolby announced new capabilities that are coming to receivers that likely any new piece will not have (Dolby Volume control, Dolby Dynamics, etc).. DTS has speaker mapping coming which looks very slick and other nicities as well. I wonder if Lexicon / Meridian is waiting on these new features to mature and then bring out a new piece with ALL the new goodies. These features will require new hardware internally.

HDMI audio has been around for 4 years. Theta is finally adding it. I wonder, if in typical Theta 'slow to embrace' form, that after you guys pay $4K for basic HDMI 1.3 audio, that Dolby's and DTS's new add ons (which will require new hardware) will be announced... and then you're behind technology again (or have to wait another 4 years to get it).

As I see it HDMI 1.3 offers nothing over HDMI 1.2 LPCM audio, so the heavies like Lexicon are waiting until they can add something really new like DD and DTS new features (as they already have HDMI audio). Who knows?

More likely the "heavies" as you put it simply will wait another year or two to make money on their existing model/investment.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #279 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 03:43 PM
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"More likely the "heavies" as you put it simply will wait another year or two to make money on their existing model/investment."

You don't have a full time engineering staff sitting around twiddling their thumbs for a year or two.

Shawn
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post #280 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"More likely the "heavies" as you put it simply will wait another year or two to make money on their existing model/investment."

You don't have a full time engineering staff sitting around twiddling their thumbs for a year or two.

Shawn

Youi are correct. I don't. You apparently think that Lexicon and Halcro are already moving towards HDMI audio 1.3 but aren't telling anyone until they're close to it. Don't you? Is your guess that they are maybe a year away from an announcement?

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #281 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:02 PM
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I think HDMI 1.3 is one part of it... but other features like what Dolby was touting at CEDIA and DTS's new features (amongst others) are coming... I see these types of new features as the hold up. Getting lossless over HDMI isn't anything new. New is new and those aforementioned features are very new and coming very soon.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #282 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Dolby announced new capabilities that are coming to receivers that likely any new piece will not have (Dolby Volume control, Dolby Dynamics, etc).. DTS has speaker mapping coming which looks very slick and other nicities as well. I wonder if Lexicon / Meridian is waiting on these new features to mature and then bring out a new piece with ALL the new goodies. These features will require new hardware internally.

Possible, but if Theta is not going to that now, can you imagine how much noise from this forum and others will produce, 6 months ago and now it is like day and night different, right? For me, I much prefer this way and I hope this will be a bigger step than that and if Theta engineers are smart enough, they should have plan, not necessary the hardware and software, in this build already. Also, it will making better business sense if they come out now and capture more market share, why doing a face to face fight with Lexicon or Meridian together if they can do it early, today. All we can hope now is next "Dolby Volume control, Dolby Dynamics, etc" upgrade will be a smaller job and cost less. Is that all the CB open architecture all about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

HDMI audio has been around for 4 years. Theta is finally adding it. I wonder, if in typical Theta 'slow to embrace' form, that after you guys pay $4K for basic HDMI 1.3 audio, that Dolby's and DTS's new add ons (which will require new hardware) will be announced... and then you're behind technology again (or have to wait another 4 years to get it).

hmm... I think we just somewhat starting 1.3b to be stable and mature stage, some of the features in 1.3b are still under developments. I think since mid to end of last year, all BD lossless format such as TrueHD and DTS MA are coming to us in a big wave. But 4 years ago, HDMI up to HDMI 1.2, I think we were able to use other input options, but not lossless format due to bandwidth issue inside the cable, right?
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post #283 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:05 PM
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Steve,

All I meant is you don't have a full time engineering staff sitting around doing nothing.

What HSG is working on I don't know. What they were working on was the #502.

"but aren't telling anyone until they're close to it."

That is what Lexicon has always done. There was maybe 3 or 4 weeks between announcing the MC-12HD and shipping the MC-12HD. Ditto most of the upgrades for the MC-12 and so on.

Shawn
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post #284 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:07 PM
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"But 4 years ago, HDMI up to HDMI 1.2, I think we were able to use other input options, but not lossless format due to bandwidth issue inside the cable, right?"

Lossless formats were able to be used over HDMI 1.0, just passed as LPCM.

Shawn
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post #285 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

"But 4 years ago, HDMI up to HDMI 1.2, I think we were able to use other input options, but not lossless format due to bandwidth issue inside the cable, right?"

Lossless formats were able to be used over HDMI 1.0, just passed as LPCM.

Shawn

Exactly. Lossless format just start to coming to us in last 12 months. But LPCM has been here long but a company like Theta why bother to do just LPCM but not all the proper decoding.
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post #286 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post

I am getting bombarded with HDMI upgrade questions - Wow, I never realized how many of my customers are enjoying their CBIII's and now chomping at the bit to get HDMI..

Well guys , Thanks so much for all the great years of support.. I got a call today asking if I would be taking care of the upgrades for our loyals and of course, we are prioritizing the list already and as everyone knows I will get everyone upgraded timely and cost effectively as well.

I am in communication with Theta many times a week and as things progress I will announce it on the AVS and keep everyone in the loop as well.

As we all know, This card will set the Casablanca III once again in a class that is untouched by any. The fact that we have successfully upgraded this machine for so many years without a hitch is amazing enough but once the HDMI card hits, Man oh man, that separates the men from the boys!!!

Looking forward to keeping you guys updated !

Craig ( Theatermax )

well it''s about time you got yur butt on here to answer some questions
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post #287 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Exactly. Lossless format just start to coming to us in last 12 months. But LPCM has been here long but a company like Theta why bother to do just LPCM but not all the proper decoding.

Lossless over HDMI has been with us since HD DVD (2.5 years). It is old news. A processors ability to accept and post process digitally is the most basic of functions of any pre/pro over the last 2-3 years.

But more is coming and thats where I feel the other high end manufacturers are waiting before releasing their new fully re-designed reference processors. Lossless over HDMI simply isn't new and a basic feature of any receiver of years past.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #288 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:44 PM
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"Lossless over HDMI has been with us since HD DVD (2.5 years)."

Further back then that, it was first available with DVD-A and HDMI.

Shawn
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post #289 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I wonder if the reason most others are hesitating on HDMI or HDMI 1.3 is because of the new features coming out for processors from DTS and Dolby......

..........HDMI audio has been around for 4 years. Theta is finally adding it. I wonder, if in typical Theta 'slow to embrace' form, that after you guys pay $4K for basic HDMI 1.3 audio, that Dolby's and DTS's new add ons (which will require new hardware) will be announced... and then you're behind technology again (or have to wait another 4 years to get it).

As I see it HDMI 1.3 offers nothing over HDMI 1.2 LPCM audio, so the heavies like Lexicon are waiting until they can add something really new like DD and DTS new features (as they already have HDMI audio). Who knows?

maybe...... but I think you have to plunge in somewhere. Don't you? At the rate this particular technology is accelerating, "cuting edge" is almost sure to be "blunt edge" soon after it hits the market if not before. Even if it doesn't and everything is as you say, it won't be anything new to us Theta folks. The other guys can have the quantity. We'll take the quality.
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post #290 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 04:46 PM
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This may be true but you have to plunge in somewhere. At the rate this technology is accelerating, "cuting edge" technology is almost bound to be "blunt edge" soon after it hits the market

I agree... There is something always coming around the corner. LExicon has had HDMI for some time.. There is not enough new to replace the MC-12B HD. THeta needs an HDMI solution yesterday. You Theta guys have been very patient.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #291 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I agree... There is something always coming around the corner. LExicon has had HDMI for some time.. There is not enough new to replace the MC-12B HD. THeta needs an HDMI solution yesterday. You Theta guys have been very patient.

Sometimes waiting is worth it. Like your patience is living with your Sony Qualia!!!@@@

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post #292 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Sometimes waiting is worth it. Like your patience is living with your Sony Qualia!!!@@@

Yes, and I am ready to replace it... Saw some neat stuff!!!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #293 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Exactly. Lossless format just start to coming to us in last 12 months. But LPCM has been here long but a company like Theta why bother to do just LPCM but not all the proper decoding.

this table may help a little to prove your point.

HDMI version 1 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.3a
1.2a 1.3b
1.3b1
sRGB Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
YCbCr Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
8 channel LPCM/192 kHz/24-bit audio capability Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Blu-ray Disc video and audio at full resolution[F] Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Consumer Electronic Control (CEC)[G] Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
DVD-Audio support No Yes Yes Yes Yes
Super Audio CD (DSD) support[H] No No Yes Yes Yes
Deep Color No No No Yes Yes
xvYCC No No No Yes Yes
Auto lip-sync No No No Yes Yes
Dolby TrueHD bitstream capable No No No Yes Yes
DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream capable No No No Yes Yes
Updated list of CEC commands[i] No No No No Yes
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post #294 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I wonder if the reason most others are hesitating on HDMI or HDMI 1.3 is because of the new features coming out for processors from DTS and Dolby..

Dolby announced new capabilities that are coming to receivers that likely any new piece will not have (Dolby Volume control, Dolby Dynamics, etc).. DTS has speaker mapping coming which looks very slick and other nicities as well. I wonder if Lexicon / Meridian is waiting on these new features to mature and then bring out a new piece with ALL the new goodies. These features will require new hardware internally.

HDMI audio has been around for 4 years. Theta is finally adding it. I wonder, if in typical Theta 'slow to embrace' form, that after you guys pay $4K for basic HDMI 1.3 audio, that Dolby's and DTS's new add ons (which will require new hardware) will be announced... and then you're behind technology again (or have to wait another 4 years to get it).

As I see it HDMI 1.3 offers nothing over HDMI 1.2 LPCM audio, so the heavies like Lexicon are waiting until they can add something really new like DD and DTS new features (as they already have HDMI audio). Who knows?

Jeff, there are 3 internal slots in the CB III for decoder cards, hardware implementation, etc. The CB II used 2 of them. When we updated to the CB III the new decoder cards were not yet available. When they came on line we did all of them in the field, and one card replaced the existing two. That means there are two slots available for the sort of thing you mention. Once the HDMI update is done, I believe an internal card update can do these future items, and I think it will be possible for the dealer to do it in the field. I think ATI is proving their committment to the Theta product line, and I expect them to continue to do so. Regards, Norm
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post #295 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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We too are collecting a priority list for updates here at Malibu Audio Vision. I drive past the factory every day between my home and office, and we hand carry all work into the factory personally and place the orders personally. PM me if you wish to be put on our list, and kept updated (no pun intended) on the progress to fruition of this great leap forward for Theta. Regards, Norm
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post #296 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by javry View Post

this table may help a little to prove your point.

Thank you javry. All I am trying to say is
1) HDMI 1.3b is just starting to be mature, stable and other under developments.
2) BD lossless format just heat up last 12 months or less.
3) Before we can use other connections such as analog, 1, 2 or 3 SPDIFs to do just as good.

Yes, LPCM, lossless or whatever maybe here as long as 3 to 5 years. But for a small manufacture compare to those mass production manufacture such as Pioneer, Onkyo, they have to be careful and can't afford making any mistake to introduce anything that not sell or format obsolete before even begin production. The most I think and consider is behind about 1 year old; when most mass production 1.3b receiver launched mid to end of last year, right?
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post #297 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 06:21 PM
 
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From experience these past years we can predict the likelihood that the CB 3 HDMI 1.3 audio bitstream processing and DAC conversion and analog ouptut will give those of us with hi resolution audio and ear/brain (not Doug Winsor_ better sonics than even the incredible Integra 9.8.

More assumptions steve? You still have not cleared up your last comments on how theta's better power will change the was a DSP operates.

Quote:


The good news for Lex and Halcro owners is that with Theta pushing the HDMI 1.3 audio bar, that this will create market pressure for Lex and Halcro to move to HDMI 1.3 audio perhaps earlier than they would otherwise. But whether good upgrade pricing would be available for current Lex and Halcro HDMI LPCM processing only owners remains to be seen! Suddenly Theta Digital has leapfrogged to the top of the class!!!

Lex and halcro would not benefit from releaseing a HDMI 1.3 product so what would be the point? How is theta at the top of the class when they are years late and still do not offer any type of room correction?

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So how does HDMI sound through the Theta?

Can't go to the head of the class on product announcements alone, you gotta have an actual product.

This was a good laugh, theta did not even have a powered product at the show and people are jumping up and down.

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As we all know, This card will set the Casablanca III once again in a class that is untouched by any. The fact that we have successfully upgraded this machine for so many years without a hitch is amazing enough but once the HDMI card hits, Man oh man, that separates the men from the boys!!!

Untouched by any? You are 4 years late on HDMI.

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Theta Digital is now a "full speed ahead" company. ATI, its new owner, has the financial assets and engineering contacts and know how to proceed

So before the ATI buy out you agree that theta did not have the ability to release a HDMI product?

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Exactly. Lossless format just start to coming to us in last 12 months. But LPCM has been here long but a company like Theta why bother to do just LPCM but not all the proper decoding.

How does LPCM not offer all the proper decoding?
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post #298 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 06:25 PM
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Jeff, there are 3 internal slots in the CB III for decoder cards, hardware implementation, etc. The CB II used 2 of them. When we updated to the CB III the new decoder cards were not yet available. When they came on line we did all of them in the field, and one card replaced the existing two. That means there are two slots available for the sort of thing you mention. Once the HDMI update is done, I believe an internal card update can do these future items, and I think it will be possible for the dealer to do it in the field. I think ATI is proving their committment to the Theta product line, and I expect them to continue to do so. Regards, Norm

Good to know that we still have some slots open to do other mods/upgrade. Thanks Theta!

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We too are collecting a priority list for updates here at Malibu Audio Vision. I drive past the factory every day between my home and office, and we hand carry all work into the factory personally and place the orders personally. PM me if you wish to be put on our list, and kept updated (no pun intended) on the progress to fruition of this great leap forward for Theta. Regards, Norm

What a service!!! Thanks Norm.
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post #299 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 06:33 PM
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How does LPCM not offer all the proper decoding?

Doug,

What I meant is some AVR out there just offer LPCM. But a company like Theta, they should not do that instead they should just introduce lossless format decoding along with LPCM together, just like what they're doing now.
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post #300 of 619 Old 09-09-2008, 06:44 PM
 
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What I meant is some AVR out there just offer LPCM. But a company like Theta, they should not do that instead they should just introduce lossless format decoding along with LPCM together, just like what they're doing now.

Receivers have offered both LPCM and bitstream over HDMI for some time now. LPCM is lossless and does not differ from lossless bitstream, that and the fact that blu ray specs require LPCM over bitstream. If you bitstream a lossless codec the menu sounds will not work will all/most blu ray disks.
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