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post #31 of 619 Old 08-23-2008, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by els View Post

For CB3 owners with 8 channels of superior DACS, where might we fall in this announcement.

Would we be led to believe that we will have to move to new superior II DACS?

You will have to upgrade your DACs to at least Premium, or Superior II, or Extreme. The original Superior DACs are old technology circa 1997-1998.

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post #32 of 619 Old 08-23-2008, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

You will have to upgrade your DACs to at least Premium, or Superior II, or Extreme. The original Superior DACs are old technology circa 1997-1998.

Beat you at the wire. Norm
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post #33 of 619 Old 08-23-2008, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Beat you at the wire. Norm

But I beat you all by giving the info that Theta would be having the HDMI 1.3 Casablanca 3 at CEDIA, didn't I? HA!!!!

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post #34 of 619 Old 08-23-2008, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post

Here's the full article You guys owe me one as it was a b**ch typing this:
Theta Digital Debuts Casablanca III HDMI 1.3b Upgrade
Theta Digital (booth 469) is introducing an HDMI 1.3b upgrade for its acclaimed Casablance 3 Music and Cinema controller, which now supports HDMI 1.3b audio and video signals.
Capitalizing on the flexible, card based architecture of the Casablanca 3, the HDMI 1.3b complaint hardware and software will provide four 1.3b inputs ad one HDMI 1.3b output. New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta's legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology, providing the highest levels of performance possible. The Xtreme D-2, Superior II and Premium DAC cards for the CB3 are already capable of processing signals of this caliber - yet another indication of Theta's forward thinking designs.
This HDMI 1.3 b upgrade will also allow the CB3 to switch and pass full HD video signals from sources to to a display device at resolutions up to 1080p with no artifacts or degradation.
True to Theta Digitals long- standing tradition of providing upgrade paths, owners of previous generation Casablanca I and Casablanca II units can upgrade to Casablanca III, to gain access to this HDMI 1.3b option.
(there is a picture of the Casablanca III with a caption - Theta Digitals's Casablanca III music and Cinema Controller now supports HDMI 1.3b Audio and Video Signals)

Since the CB3 HDMI 1.3 upgrade will allow four HDMI inputs and one output,
with video switching and pass through but no processing:

This is fine with me! My Lumagen Radiance or my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector do the best video scaling and processing, anyway.

But its important, that like my Intega 9 .8 preamp/processor, Theta have a menu item to turn off the video display pass through so that the video passing through the CB3 remains as pure as the original source signal. Otherwise those of us with top dog video monitors will notice a degradation of picture quality if we pass the HDMI signal through the CB3 prior to video processing whether in the display or a separate video processor.

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post #35 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

But I beat you all by giving the info that Theta would be having the HDMI 1.3 Casablanca 3 at CEDIA, didn't I? HA!!!!

Touche!
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post #36 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Since the CB3 HDMI 1.3 upgrade will allow four HDMI inputs and one output,
with video switching and pass through but no processing:

This is fine with me! My Lumagen Radiance or my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector do the best video scaling and processing, anyway.

But its important, that like my Intega 9 .8 preamp/processor, Theta have a menu item to turn off the video display pass through so that the video passing through the CB3 remains as pure as the original source signal. Otherwise those of us with top dog video monitors will notice a degradation of picture quality if we pass the HDMI signal through the CB3 prior to video processing whether in the display or a separate video processor.

Steve, from what I gather, the HDMI video will only be a pass through with no post processing so a video processor between the CB and the display will be the only video processing in the signal path. Regards, Norm
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post #37 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 06:43 AM
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Steve:

You could always just sent the audio only output HDMI to the CB3 from your radiance XD, and send video directly to your projector from the XD.
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post #38 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 06:47 AM
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Steve, your Theta HDMI 1.3 shouldn't bother at all with your video if it is properly designed. Run your audio and video right through it.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #39 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 06:55 AM
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Norm:

Thanks for the info, what about Extreme Dacs vs Extreme Dac-2, any indication of what would need to be done?
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post #40 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Steve, your Theta HDMI 1.3 shouldn't bother at all with your video if it is properly designed. Run your audio and video right through it.

I know that!!!!! But when the video display data is superimposed on the image, reports of various surround processors is that this degrades the video image. With my Integra 9.8 surround processor/preamp, if you turn the video monitor display function off, then the HDMI video signal portion passes through unchanged. There is a bit of visible degradation of picture quality leaving the video monitor display function on in the menu. I have noticed this myself. I am simply warning Theta of this same "trap.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #41 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Norm:

Thanks for the info, what about Extreme Dacs vs Extreme Dac D-2, any indication of what would need to be done?


Dealer ads for the CB3 include the following re list price of the Extreme DACs:

NEW FOR 2007 EXTREME DAC with D2 Software 4 Channel Balanced DAC $3990.00 Each"

The D2 software was added to the existing original Extreme DACs when the CB2 was upgraded to CB3 to improve performance and sonics. I was told that at that time. All upgraded or new CB3s with Extreme DACs some with the D2 software.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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This HDMI 1.3 b upgrade will also allow the CB3 to switch and pass full HD video signals from sources to to a display device at resolutions up to 1080p with no artifacts or degradation.

1080p what? Do we know if it will support 1080p24 or 1080p60?
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post #43 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Jeff, since it has been anounced as an HDMI 1.3b machine, it will have to handle LPCM as well as DD+, True HD, & DTS-MA bitstreams. Come to think of it DSD as well. With the right transport this could make one heck of an SACD combo. Regards, Norm

Sorry. The use of 1.3b means that the interface CAN handle all those bitstreams but the processor needs to have the ability to decode them and that is not required.

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post #44 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Sorry. The use of 1.3b means that the interface CAN handle all those bitstreams but the processor needs to have the ability to decode them and that is not required.

Kal, if you read the press release it states that the unit will access the new codecs. You are correct that 1.3b only means that it is capable of decoding them not requiring it. I will say we have not seen any company issue a 1.3 unit that is not designed to decode the new bitstreams, and it would be foolish of Theta to have waited for a 1.3 solution and not utilize it fully to decode them. I guess we shall see at CEDIA. Regards, Norm
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post #45 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

You will have to upgrade your DACs to at least Premium, or Superior II, or Extreme. The original Superior DACs are old technology circa 1997-1998.

Quick question, in my CBIII I have an Extreme DAC for the R/L & C channels and then Standard cards for the sides and surround...do I need to upgrade these as well?
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Originally Posted by htfan123 View Post

Quick question, in my CBIII I have an Extreme DAC for the R/L & C channels and then Standard cards for the sides and surround...do I need to upgrade these as well?

You will need to upgrade your Std card to Xtreme, Superior II, or Premium card. Regards, Norm
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post #47 of 619 Old 08-24-2008, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Q: What company's top line high end surround processors over the years maintain the highest resale value:

A: Theta Digital

Why: Because Theta Digital has and is following a truly upgradeable path, having just announced that its Casablanca 3 surround processor will be upgraded with HDMI 1.3b with audio processing for the new high resolution formats!

Well 25% of 18 grand is $4500!

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post #48 of 619 Old 08-25-2008, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Kal, if you read the press release it states that the unit will access the new codecs. You are correct that 1.3b only means that it is capable of decoding them not requiring it. I will say we have not seen any company issue a 1.3 unit that is not designed to decode the new bitstreams, and it would be foolish of Theta to have waited for a 1.3 solution and not utilize it fully to decode them. I guess we shall see at CEDIA. Regards, Norm

I am not arguing any of these points; merely pointing out that stipulating the inclusion of HDMI v1.3b does not assure the inclusion the codecs. BTW, did you see SACD anywhere?

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post #49 of 619 Old 08-25-2008, 10:29 AM
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I just checked Thetas website which is completely outdated, but they're listing the Superior DAC as 96kHz. Guess that's the old DAC, I thought the Premium and Superior II DACs are both 24/192? I know the Extreme is 24/384. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but anything less than 24/192 doesn't make much sense, does it?

- Stephan
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post #50 of 619 Old 08-25-2008, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

I just checked Thetas website which is completely outdated, but they're listing the Superior DAC as 96kHz. Guess that's the old DAC, I thought the Premium and Superior II DACs are both 24/192? I know the Extreme is 24/384. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but anything less than 24/192 doesn't make much sense, does it?

Theta's website states that the Premium DACs are:
"It uses a true differential balanced output circuit. It has a Burr Brown 24/192 DAC, and can play DTS 24/96 recordings.
- - - It oversamples to 1536k."

http://www.thetadigital.com/press-re...-dac-01-07.htm

The Superior II DACs have been touted as close but not quite the performance of the Extreme DACs. They obviously are at least 24/192.

Here's the press release re the Superior 2 DACs:

http://www.thetadigital.com/press-re...ior2-09-04.htm

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but anything less than 24/192 doesn't make much sense, does it?

As long as the DAC supports 24/96 you will be alright for blu ray and HDMI 1.3, I would say anything over 24/96 does not make sense.
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post #52 of 619 Old 08-26-2008, 12:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I am not arguing any of these points; merely pointing out that stipulating the inclusion of HDMI v1.3b does not assure the inclusion the codecs. BTW, did you see SACD anywhere?

Kal, that was purely a hopeful assumption on my part. Because Theta has already developed a proprietary Cat 5 interface between the Compli multi format player and the Gen VIII, I know they have always desired to have their DACs decode a DSD bitstream. I'm hoping they take this opportunity to do so. Regards, Norm
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post #53 of 619 Old 08-26-2008, 03:38 AM
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I gotta say I am so surprised that Theta got HDMI 1.3 first.... I'm impressed. That said, I'll go to the Theta booth to check it out myself!! I still can't believe it!!! Should be fun!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #54 of 619 Old 08-26-2008, 06:30 AM
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List price Superior II DAC?
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post #55 of 619 Old 08-26-2008, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

List price Superior II DAC?

These are list for everything that will work for the upcoming upgrade,
I expect the usual 15% discount will apply to anything you buy during an upgrade.

PREMIUM DAC 24/192 4 Channels All Balanced $1500.00 Each

Superior II 3 Channel Balanced DAC $2500.00 Each

EXTREME DAC with D2 Software 4 Channel Balanced DAC $3990.00 Each

TURN IT UP!
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post #56 of 619 Old 08-26-2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

"It uses a true differential balanced output circuit. It has a Burr Brown 24/192 DAC, and can play DTS 24/96 recordings.

Thanks for digging up the press releases, I'm not sure what that means though. If it's a 24/192 DAC it shouldn't have any trouble playing anything at that rate and that includes 96kHz. Unless Theta means something else of course, but it doesn't surprise me they're stated as 24/192 as that's pretty much the standard on high end processors now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DougWinsor View Post

As long as the DAC supports 24/96 you will be alright for blu ray and HDMI 1.3, I would say anything over 24/96 does not make sense.

Well, I guess that depends on what you throw at it. dts-HD MA supports up to 8 channels of 24/96 audio, but it also supports 6 channels with 24/192. So if you end up with a 6-channel 24/192 track, you'd have to downsample it to 24/96 without the proper DACs.

- Stephan
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post #57 of 619 Old 08-26-2008, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Since the CB3 HDMI 1.3 upgrade will allow four HDMI inputs and one output,
with video switching and pass through but no processing:

This is fine with me! My Lumagen Radiance or my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector do the best video scaling and processing, anyway.

But its important, that like my Intega 9 .8 preamp/processor, Theta have a menu item to turn off the video display pass through so that the video passing through the CB3 remains as pure as the original source signal. Otherwise those of us with top dog video monitors will notice a degradation of picture quality if we pass the HDMI signal through the CB3 prior to video processing whether in the display or a separate video processor.

Quick question...any of you is into DVDO processors? The EDGE in particular? In the setup manual the recommended approach is to connect the source (using HDMI) to the EDGE and then from the EDGE to connect an "audio only" HDMI 1.3b signal to the preamp/receiver. But for us who value more the audio and prefer to connect the source to the preamp and then the video signal to the video processor...any potential issues?
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post #58 of 619 Old 08-26-2008, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by htfan123 View Post

Quick question...any of you is into DVDO processors? The EDGE in particular? In the setup manual the recommended approach is to connect the source (using HDMI) to the EDGE and then from the EDGE to connect an "audio only" HDMI 1.3b signal to the preamp/receiver. But for us who value more the audio and prefer to connect the source to the preamp and then the video signal to the video processor...any potential issues?

We're using a DVDO VP-50pro with the Integra DTC-9.8 which goes into the Theta Six Shooter. The HDMI for the BD & HD DVD players goes first to the Integra pre/pro then HDMI out to the DVDO. This works perfectly so it should be OK for the Edge as well. I think this is best for both audio & video. Regards, Norm
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post #59 of 619 Old 08-27-2008, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by htfan123 View Post

But for us who value more the audio and prefer to connect the source to the preamp and then the video signal to the video processor...any potential issues?

I have a VP50Pro connected to a Lexicon MC-12HD in this way. The only thing you lose with this configuration is the VP50's automatic audio delay feature.

Sound-quality wise, it doesn't matter which comes first, and the only reason I did it this way was because I wanted to see the MC-12's OSD, and I use the MC-12 to handle the delay. Admittedly, it's not as good as the VP50's delay because the VP50 knows exactly how much delay to apply, but it's good enough for now.

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post #60 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 09:13 AM
 
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Well, I guess that depends on what you throw at it. dts-HD MA supports up to 8 channels of 24/96 audio, but it also supports 6 channels with 24/192. So if you end up with a 6-channel 24/192 track, you'd have to downsample it to 24/96 without the proper DACs.

Since we are more or less talking about movies you will only see 24/96 and I do not think there is a blu ray movie out that has 24/192 but I could be wrong.
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