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post #61 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

Kal, if you read the press release it states that the unit will access the new codecs. You are correct that 1.3b only means that it is capable of decoding them not requiring it. I will say we have not seen any company issue a 1.3 unit that is not designed to decode the new bitstreams, and it would be foolish of Theta to have waited for a 1.3 solution and not utilize it fully to decode them. I guess we shall see at CEDIA. Regards, Norm

Well, I hate to be a party-pooper, but you are making a lot of assumptions.
In the first place, how many high-end 1.3b units have we seen? It isn't necessarily "foolish" for Theta to issue a 1.3 solution without decoding--it may be the new owners' recognition that they are far behind the market and wanted to get something out that allowed them to claim HDMI capability as fast as possible. Given the timeframe, i find it much easier to believe that they could implement 1.3b connectivity capability for LPCM than a full on decoding solution as well.

Does anyone else find the wording in the quoted article peculiar: "New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta’s legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology..."

"...able to be accessed" is an awfully convoluted, passive way of saying this...why not just say the Blanca can decode the new formats? It's a much clearer, simpler and stronger way of advertising the capability if it does in fact have it. Instead, the wording here certainly leaves open the possibility that the format "access" is via LPCM, transmitted over HDMI--in fact, the wording is exactly the way marketing types would fudge the issue to imply more capability without committing to it. "Accessing" the formats that have been decoded in the player and transmitted as LPCM is also more in alignment with "Theta's legendary expertise in D/A conversion"--i.e., converting LPCM to analog--than actual decoding technology, an area in which they have traditionally had no in-house expertise.

I actually do hope that they deliver the full enchilada--I like to see the performance bar raised via healthy competition. I just hate to see people getting their hopes up over a statement whose wording I find dubious. Sorry, it's the writer in me.

Cheers,
Philip Brandes
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post #62 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Brandes View Post

Well, I hate to be a party-pooper, but you are making a lot of assumptions.
In the first place, how many high-end 1.3b units have we seen? It isn't necessarily "foolish" for Theta to issue a 1.3 solution without decoding--it may be the new owners' recognition that they are far behind the market and wanted to get something out that allowed them to claim HDMI capability as fast as possible. Given the timeframe, i find it much easier to believe that they could implement 1.3b connectivity capability for LPCM than a full on decoding solution as well.

Does anyone else find the wording in the quoted article peculiar: "New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta's legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology..."

"...able to be accessed" is an awfully convoluted, passive way of saying this...why not just say the Blanca can decode the new formats? It's a much clearer, simpler and stronger way of advertising the capability if it does in fact have it. Instead, the wording here certainly leaves open the possibility that the format "access" is via LPCM, transmitted over HDMI--in fact, the wording is exactly the way marketing types would fudge the issue to imply more capability without committing to it. "Accessing" the formats that have been decoded in the player and transmitted as LPCM is also more in alignment with "Theta's legendary expertise in D/A conversion"--i.e., converting LPCM to analog--than actual decoding technology, an area in which they have traditionally had no in-house expertise.

I actually do hope that they deliver the full enchilada--I like to see the performance bar raised via healthy competition. I just hate to see people getting their hopes up over a statement whose wording I find dubious. Sorry, it's the writer in me.

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

Phil, fortunately we only have 137 more hours to wait till we find out. Regards, Norm
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post #63 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 05:24 PM
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I hope it turns out great for you Theta guys, but I have a feeling there has to be some fatal flaw. This is just too much upgrade when no one else has offered anything close.

We'll see... (and you can bet I'll stop by the Theta booth).

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #64 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I hope it turns out great for you Theta guys, but I have a feeling there has to be some fatal flaw. This is just too much upgrade when no one else has offered anything close.

We'll see... (and you can bet I'll stop by the Theta booth).

Its all your fault!!! You've been bitchin' and gripin' about Theta for years, and they've decided the only way to get you to buy one and lay off is to go full hog!!!!

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post #65 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 07:09 PM
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Folks,

The announcement I read says
Quote:


New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed

That doesn't state HBR codecs, that says "accessed". You can access them via PCM too with the right player.

We need to confirm if its HBR decode capable.

I have fallen in this hole once before and now read press releases a bit more carefully.
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post #66 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Folks,

The announcement I read says

That doesn't state HBR codecs, that says "accessed". You can access them via PCM too with the right player.

We need to confirm if its HBR decode capable.

I have fallen in this hole once before and now read press releases a bit more carefully.

Phil, no Eric, fortunately we only have 134 more hours to wait till we find out. Regards, Norm
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post #67 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 10:04 PM
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I look forward to the update. Wish I could attend...
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post #68 of 619 Old 08-28-2008, 11:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

I look forward to the update. Wish I could attend...

I'm looking forward to it too, and I'll be there to let you know. Regards, Norm
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post #69 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Folks,

The announcement I read says

I have fallen in this hole once before and now read press releases a bit more carefully.

An actual offical type press release was never issued by Theta. Until such time as that happens or 130hrs from now or whichever comes first, we won't know for sure.

As you said, this was just an announcement. An announcement by a trade mag no less, in which Theta said they were going to be there with some sort of HDMI upgraded CBIII with no real details. Who knows how much the writer took upon himself to embellish.

I spoke to Theta yesterday and they were still not prepared to discuss any details of said HDMI upgrade. So what does that tell you about this so called announcement?
The only FACT is that they'll be there with a new HDMI machine of some sort.

TURN IT UP!
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post #70 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 04:15 AM
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I really expected Lexicon to win the 'first to HDMI 1.3' war. But they've been quiet, too.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #71 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 04:31 AM
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First of all, this is potentially great news as the e-mail excerpt suggests that the Casablanca III could possibly have the whole shabang.

My only questions would be:

-> Availability [We have examples like Lumagen Radiance, DP Titan 250 PD MD 80] ..... this announcement has to have an availability date to have an impact. Q1 2009 or Q2 2009 tops IMO.

-> Price of the upgrade

-> Customer support on the phone and firmware updates to resolve the initial glitches and problems.


I think the first and third factors will be the most important ones. It's still very good news indeed. The silence by Meridian and Lexicon is very intriguing to be honest. Lexicon will definitely show something at CES if not here IMO.
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post #72 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DougWinsor View Post

Since we are more or less talking about movies you will only see 24/96 and I do not think there is a blu ray movie out that has 24/192 but I could be wrong.

There's already 24/192 music out, guess we'll have to wait and see if any movies will follow.

- Stephan
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post #73 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

............This is fine with me! My Lumagen Radiance or my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector do the best video scaling and processing, anyway........

I still don't get why you need the Radiance with the C3X 1080...but that's for another debate :>)
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post #74 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 03:34 PM
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I still don't get why you need the Radiance with the C3X 1080...but that's for another debate :>)


Not interested in debating. That's TOO BLAND. Interested in enjoying my gorgeous drop dead picture and sound. HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And my gorgeous drop dead sound for Blu Ray and HD DVD, with the Integra 9.8 preamp processor to Theta Six Shooter, will only get better once Theta's HDMI audio 1.3 upgrade is done. That's NOT BLAND at all!!!!!!!!@@@

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
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post #75 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 03:41 PM
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I'm gambling that some guy at Theta or ATI wrote the piece and shipped it off to CEDIA. I really hope they're on the level here. It would be a shame if it was all hype and marketing. It would send a pretty dark signal to all of us Theta owners who have hung in there with them over the last year.
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post #76 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bigbrother52 View Post

An actual offical type press release was never issued by Theta. Until such time as that happens or 130hrs from now or whichever comes first, we won't know for sure.

As you said, this was just an announcement. An announcement by a trade mag no less, in which Theta said they were going to be there with some sort of HDMI upgraded CBIII with no real details. Who knows how much the writer took upon himself to embellish.

I spoke to Theta yesterday and they were still not prepared to discuss any details of said HDMI upgrade. So what does that tell you about this so called announcement?
The only FACT is that they'll be there with a new HDMI machine of some sort.

I think it's in Theta's interest to hold the big show in person at CEDIA, just like John McCain did today with the VP anouncement. It seems to have had its desired effect, that is taking the sails out of last nights speech. The VP anouncement is all I've heard about all day. We'll see if Theta can pull it off as well. Regards, Norm
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post #77 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 06:24 PM
 
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I really expected Lexicon to win the 'first to HDMI 1.3' war. But they've been quiet, too.

Thing is that their firmware updates saved them and they do not need HDMI 1.3.

Quote:


There's already 24/192 music out, guess we'll have to wait and see if any movies will follow.

But it is already lossless so what would be the point? Plus we do not have the bandwidth or support for 24/192 in 8 channle.
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post #78 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DougWinsor View Post

Thing is that their firmware updates saved them and they do not need HDMI 1.3.



No, I think many prefer HDMI 1.3. LPCM is not perfect. Bitstreaming prior to HDMI has always been bullet proof in terms of lack of issues.

Personally, I'd like bitstreaming... But it appears to be problematic at this point.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #79 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 06:48 PM
 
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Does blu ray still need LPCM for menu sounds and the like?
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post #80 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 06:55 PM
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I don't know. I am still hdmi 1.2. I get menu sounds.... Bitstreaming seems
to be incompatable with hdmi lossless tracks. Therein lies the rub.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #81 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 07:16 PM
 
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That's the thing, blu ray specs call for the use of LPCM.
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post #82 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 07:39 PM
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" Bitstreaming prior to HDMI has always been bullet proof in terms of lack of issues."

Not so much perfect. There were many issues with bit streaming over the years. The initial bitstream of DTS Audio discs had problems. When DTS went to half bit rate encoding it causes problems for some decoders. When Dolby changed around their flags it caused some problems for some decoders. This still occurs. Read the threads about bitstreaming DTS MA over HDMI and the problems with some decoders that has caused and the resulting damaged speakers that go with it.

Shawn
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post #83 of 619 Old 08-29-2008, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

I think it's in Theta's interest to hold the big show in person at CEDIA, We'll see if Theta can pull it off as well.

If their smart we'll not see a press release before CEDIA now.
It's kind of late and over a long weekend to boot.
Seems to me official press at this point in time would be fairly worthless but not like other companies havn't made the mistake of putting out press nobody will see for zero impact before.

Let's hope they have "a really big shoe" planned to WOW the crowd.

TURN IT UP!
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post #84 of 619 Old 08-30-2008, 12:21 AM
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it would be nice.
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post #85 of 619 Old 08-30-2008, 06:22 AM
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Even at the show you'll only see Theta's tiny booth area with a non-powered CB3. Expect a basic black and white HDMI spec sheet. It would be nice to see it demonstrated at the show. Hint Hint Nudge Nudge.
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post #86 of 619 Old 08-30-2008, 06:29 AM
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If they don't have a powered up HDMI piece, my bet is 2010 or later for HDMI CB3 (e.g. more of the same wait).

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #87 of 619 Old 08-30-2008, 01:16 PM
 
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If they don't have a powered up HDMI piece, my bet is 2010 or later for HDMI CB3 (e.g. more of the same wait).

I agree, that would be a huge blow if theta does not have a powered/working product.
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post #88 of 619 Old 08-30-2008, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DougWinsor View Post

I agree, that would be a huge blow if theta does not have a powered/working product.

I don't. Theta almost always has dry displays. The only time you hear Theta at shows is use by other manufacturers. I expect a chassis showing the HDMI configuration with a description of its capabilities nothing more, but this will tell us where ATI is going with this. Maybe we will get a timetable as well. Regards, Norm
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post #89 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 04:52 AM
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My CB3 has three Extreme cards, are these same as Extreme D2?
Ash

Basically yes. There is no hardware difference between the two. Theta changed the way they calculated dither. The superior II dac also benefits from the same software improvements. I believe one of the things the new algorithms did was improve signal to noise ratios, at least that's the claim.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #90 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by els View Post

For CB3 owners with 8 channels of superior DACS, where might we fall in this announcement.

Would we be led to believe that we will have to move to new superior II DACS?

I think the Sup II are significantly better than Sup I. IMO the original Superior dac is not up to the performance level of the new formats. I believe Theta would be doing itself a disservice to allow these dacs to be representative of the current sound quality of which the company is capable. Most of the negative comments about the CBIII sound quality in comparison to other processors involved the Sup I. I realize it's not inexpensive to upgrade but you will be very happy that you did. When I originally purchased my CB it had the Sup I and I was unhappy with the sound quality. in comparison to my previous processor a California Audio Labs SSP. I thought I had made a mistake buying a CB until I upgraded to the Superior II cards.

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