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post #91 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

I just checked Thetas website which is completely outdated, but they're listing the Superior DAC as 96kHz. Guess that's the old DAC, I thought the Premium and Superior II DACs are both 24/192? I know the Extreme is 24/384. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but anything less than 24/192 doesn't make much sense, does it?

The Sup I is a Burr-Brown 1702 dac but a 20 bit dac. It can do 20/96 but not 24/96. The Sup II and Extreme dacs both use a Burr-Brown 1704 dac which is 24/96. It can only handle a 24/96 input. Both the Sup II and Xtreme oversample to 24/384 but neither are capable of handeling an input above 24/96. The newer Premium dac is capable of 24/192 input. 24/192 support may or may not become needed. My opinion is that support for it will be limited. High rez audio does not really make a lot of money. Allocating a lot of space for high-rez audio may not be as attractive as using the disk space for other extras that may be more attractive to the general public like different versions of a film or multiple language sound tracks.

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post #92 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I gotta say I am so surprised that Theta got HDMI 1.3 first.... I'm impressed. That said, I'll go to the Theta booth to check it out myself!! I still can't believe it!!! Should be fun!

It was scary there for awhile but the new ownership came through. I thank Neil Sinclair for the sale to an owner that is fully supporting and developing the brand. Theta was though consistant in the information as to what hardware could be supported and the likely direction an upgrade would take so I was optimistic. In the end it comes down to the intentions of the ownership. A new owner could have easily blamed the previous ownership and cannibalised the company instead of the path which they are taking. You have to figure this is much more risky but admirable path.

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post #93 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Brandes View Post


I actually do hope that they deliver the full enchilada--I like to see the performance bar raised via healthy competition. I just hate to see people getting their hopes up over a statement whose wording I find dubious. Sorry, it's the writer in me.

Cheers,
Philip Brandes

I can live with anything except being limited to only 5.1 24/96 material. That would really suck.

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post #94 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I can live with anything except being limited to only 5.1 24/96 material. That would really suck.

So if it turns out that they are not going full bore this time around, how do you think it will play out?
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post #95 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 10:52 AM
 
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I don't. Theta almost always has dry displays. The only time you hear Theta at shows is use by other manufacturers. I expect a chassis showing the HDMI configuration with a description of its capabilities nothing more, but this will tell us where ATI is going with this. Maybe we will get a timetable as well.

So without a working product we then have no idea of how long it will be untill a release date.

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I believe one of the things the new algorithms did was improve signal to noise ratios, at least that's the claim.

More assumptions with theta products.

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The Sup I is a Burr-Brown 1702 dac but a 20 bit dac. It can do 20/96 but not 24/96. The Sup II and Extreme dacs both use a Burr-Brown 1704 dac which is 24/96. It can only handle a 24/96 input. Both the Sup II and Xtreme oversample to 24/384 but neither are capable of handeling an input above 24/96. The newer Premium dac is capable of 24/192 input. 24/192 support may or may not become needed. My opinion is that support for it will be limited. High rez audio does not really make a lot of money. Allocating a lot of space for high-rez audio may not be as attractive as using the disk space for other extras that may be more attractive to the general public like different versions of a film or multiple language sound tracks.

So because of the lack of support from theta you see no reason for anything over 24/96?
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post #96 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 11:09 AM
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No I don't think Theta will offer a solution that does not offer 7.1 24/96. What it will depend on is what the new processor boards are capable of doing. I remember Evelyn Sinclair really inquiring about features and the direction that end users wanted to take. She certainly passed on my concerns to the design team. I expect that they will offer a "full bore" solution. However upgrading an existing platform could mean that there are some work arounds. Still if you have a CBIII with the specified dacs, you should not have to spend nearly as much money. I mean the Halcro processor was 10k and could not decode the newer formats. With that in mind, any upgrade that cost at least half of that is still a bargain for me personally.I expect onboard decoding but the wording of that statement does give a lot of wiggle room.

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post #97 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 11:27 AM
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I wouldn't say it's because of a lack of support from Theta. I thought what Bulldogger was getting at is 24/96 is pretty much the standard for multi channel HD audio and that:
  1. anything less than a bit rate of 24 won't work.
  2. in most cases, anything above 24/96 would probably be done by the processor.

Any of Theta's DACs supporting 24/96 will do to get you into the HDaudio arena.
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post #98 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

No I don't think Theta will offer a solution that does not offer 7.1 24/96. What it will depend on is what the new processor boards are capable of doing. I remember Evelyn Sinclair really inquiring about features and the direction that end users wanted to take. She certainly passed on my concerns to the design team. I expect that they will offer a "full bore" solution. However upgrading an existing platform could mean that there are some work arounds. Still if you have a CBIII with the specified dacs, you should not have to spend nearly as much money. I mean the Halcro processor was 10k and could not decode the newer formats. With that in mind, any upgrade that cost at least half of that is still a bargain for me personally.I expect onboard decoding but the wording of that statement does give a lot of wiggle room.

I frankly would prefer a progressive approach. Given Theta's history of "build as you go" architecture, I would be ok with an LPCM approach to start assuming that some of the other features of 1.3b are also included such as Lip Synch and SACD. Of course, if they go "full bore", I'll gladly take it
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post #99 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

I frankly would prefer a progressive approach. Given Theta's history of "build as you go" architecture, I would be ok with an LPCM approach to start assuming that some of the other features of 1.3b are also included such as Lip Synch and SACD. Of course, if they go "full bore", I'll gladly take it

I'm not too sure that this is gonna be exactly what you wanna hear.

While speaking to Theta the other day, I did bring up the question of SACD playback over HDMI.
First he said that he wasn't certain, I assume that meant he wasn't certain about the CBIII actually being capable of DSD decoding of SACD over HDMI because when I then mentioned that there were players, like the Oppo that decoded DSD to PCM for SACD playback over HDMI, he said, in that case I don't 'think' there would be a problem.

So take that for what it's worth. It still doesn't answer the whole question.

TURN IT UP!
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post #100 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

I frankly would prefer a progressive approach. Given Theta's history of "build as you go" architecture, I would be ok with an LPCM approach to start assuming that some of the other features of 1.3b are also included such as Lip Synch and SACD. Of course, if they go "full bore", I'll gladly take it


Unless I misinterpreted what Mike Pontelle of ATI told me several months ago, the CB3 will be HDMI 1.3 and will decode the new high resolution audio formats. And that's that. And Mike and Theta know that with HDMI 1.3 parts out now, it would be a mistake to do it now like Halcro and Lexicon where it only does LPCM. Because further upgrade to HDMI 1.3 to decode the high resolution audio formats would necessitate further cost and physical changes to the CB3. So do it right the first time!!!!

We should find out this week if I'm right.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #101 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post


So do it right the first time!!!!

We should find out this week if I'm right.

That's always been a fine motto and a great credo for them to live by.

And I always count on you being right Steve.

TURN IT UP!
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post #102 of 619 Old 09-01-2008, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Unless I misinterpreted what Mike Pontelle of ATI told me several months ago, the CB3 will be HDMI 1.3 and will decode the new high resolution audio formats. And that's that. And Mike and Theta know that with HDMI 1.3 parts out now, it would be a mistake to do it now like Halcro and Lexicon where it only does LPCM. Because further upgrade to HDMI 1.3 to decode the high resolution audio formats would necessitate further cost and physical changes to the CB3. So do it right the first time!!!!

We should find out this week if I'm right.

Steve, arrived at my house in Frisco, CO, 4000 Ft. above Denver. It's downhill from here to CEDIA to get the answers we've all been waiting for. As you said we hope that they do the full enchalada the 1st time. I probably won't be the 1st to report, because I need to go back up to Frisco after Wedensday's opening to do so. I will however get as much info as I can to fill things out. Regards, Norm
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post #103 of 619 Old 09-02-2008, 11:08 AM
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If someone would be so kind when/if they stop by the Theta booth and inquire if there will be any SACD capability in the Gen VIII Series 2 at some point. It can handle it, it just needs an interface. I really love this piece and would love to see it accept a DSD signal through HDMI or something. Thanks!
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post #104 of 619 Old 09-02-2008, 02:39 PM
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"and inquire if there will be any SACD capability in the Gen VIII Series 2 at some point. It can handle it, it just needs an interface. I really love this piece and would love to see it accept a DSD signal through HDMI or something."

*Shameless self promotion* If you use one of my modded Oppo's you could listen to SACD (converted to PCM@88.2kHz) through your Gen VIII. That is assuming the Theta can accept 88.2kHz sampling rate. For DVD-A it will output at up to 192kHz.
*End shameless self promotion*

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post #105 of 619 Old 09-02-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Unless I misinterpreted what Mike Pontelle of ATI told me several months ago, the CB3 will be HDMI 1.3 and will decode the new high resolution audio formats. And that's that. And Mike and Theta know that with HDMI 1.3 parts out now, it would be a mistake to do it now like Halcro and Lexicon where it only does LPCM. Because further upgrade to HDMI 1.3 to decode the high resolution audio formats would necessitate further cost and physical changes to the CB3. So do it right the first time!!!!
We should find out this week if I'm right.

Press release uses the very careful phrases "access to" and "able to be accessed" and with no mention of the number of channels. We'll see very soon.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #106 of 619 Old 09-02-2008, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Press release uses the very careful phrases "access to" and "able to be accessed" and with no mention of the number of channels. We'll see very soon.


I know that we'll all know for certain soon enough but....

Don't you think it would be, let's just say weird, if it could only do 5.1 when 2 of the 3 DAC cards they have that are capable of this upgrade , including their best one, are each 4 channels apiece?

TURN IT UP!
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post #107 of 619 Old 09-02-2008, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Press release uses the very careful phrases "access to" and "able to be accessed" and with no mention of the number of channels. We'll see very soon.

I appreciate your concern. Makes me concerned, too.We should know shortly.

Is there a web link for the actual press release. I went to the CEDIA site and couldn't find any press release yet.

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #108 of 619 Old 09-02-2008, 05:03 PM
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I think Norm got it from the newspaper magazine they sent out to everybody.

Quote:


Gladly, it's the CEDIA Expo Daily, Preview Edition, official newspaper of CEDIA Expo. Regards, Norm

As big a deal as this would be, you would think that someone at Theta would have some in depth knowledge of it. Oh well....won't be long now.
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post #109 of 619 Old 09-02-2008, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by javry View Post

I think Norm got it from the newspaper magazine they sent out to everybody.

There was no web link which is why he had to type the whole thing by hand.

Repost...

Full Article

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the full article You guys owe me one as it was a b**ch typing this:
Theta Digital Debuts Casablanca III HDMI 1.3b Upgrade
Theta Digital (booth 469) is introducing an HDMI 1.3b upgrade for its acclaimed Casablance 3 Music and Cinema controller, which now supports HDMI 1.3b audio and video signals.
Capitalizing on the flexible, card based architecture of the Casablanca 3, the HDMI 1.3b complaint hardware and software will provide four 1.3b inputs ad one HDMI 1.3b output. New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed, leveraging Theta's legendary expertise in D/A conversion technology, providing the highest levels of performance possible. The Xtreme D-2, Superior II and Premium DAC cards for the CB3 are already capable of processing signals of this caliber - yet another indication of Theta's forward thinking designs.
This HDMI 1.3 b upgrade will also allow the CB3 to switch and pass full HD video signals from sources to to a display device at resolutions up to 1080p with no artifacts or degradation.
True to Theta Digitals long- standing tradition of providing upgrade paths, owners of previous generation Casablanca I and Casablanca II units can upgrade to Casablanca III, to gain access to this HDMI 1.3b option.
(there is a picture of the Casablanca III with a caption - Theta Digitals's Casablanca III music and Cinema Controller now supports HDMI 1.3b Audio and Video Signals)

TURN IT UP!
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post #110 of 619 Old 09-02-2008, 05:51 PM
 
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New formats such as Dolby TruHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are now able to be accessed,

So we still do not know if it supports bitstream or LPCM.
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post #111 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 06:39 AM
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Doesn't the CBIII currently have some limitations on available processing for 96kHz 2 channel sources?

If so it might be worth asking Theta what processing is available with a 5 or 7 channel 96kHz source.

Shawn
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post #112 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 01:39 PM
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Very quiet on this forum today - I look forward to the feedback from those at CEDIA. Theta had mentioned to me in an email that they hope to ship the HDMI solution by the end of the year, so I hope, at this point, that they can at least provide a ballpark range on the price, in addition to the technical details everyone is requesting.

FOR SALE: Wireworld Platinum 6 1M HDMI Cable. Originally $1000, selling for $500 obo. Please PM me, if interested.
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post #113 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 02:25 PM
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This thread is either going to bust wide open after the expo are go suddenly very quiet.
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post #114 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 02:47 PM
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When is Theta's booth officially open?
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post #115 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 03:49 PM
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I'll be at Theta around noon tomorrow... I'll pose as Theta's big advocate, Steve Bruzonsky (and ask for one at 1/2 price)!!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #116 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 04:37 PM
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Considering all the hype and hoopla regarding their "new" products, I'm assuming that we will get a comprehensive review here of what they really do have?
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post #117 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I'll be at Theta around noon tomorrow... I'll pose as Theta's big advocate, Steve Bruzonsky (and ask for one at 1/2 price)!!

If they don't bite will you bad mouth Theta for another seven years????

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #118 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastl View Post

Considering all the hype and hoopla regarding their "new" products, I'm assuming that we will get a comprehensive review here of what they really do have?

You might have to wait a day or two. I understand that The Bland, Art, etc. are all at the Republican Convention in Mpls and won't be at CEDIA until Friday!!!! VP Candidate Sarah Palin is giving The Bland rifle shooting lessons.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #119 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 05:13 PM
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No big hurry, I can wait. Shooting lessons eh - what are they using for a target - Theta?
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post #120 of 619 Old 09-03-2008, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I'll be at Theta around noon tomorrow... I'll pose as Theta's big advocate, Steve Bruzonsky (and ask for one at 1/2 price)!!

Ok, we will wait for your reporting.

Put on your flame suit.

Paul
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