Can UPS be used with Voltage Stabilizer and Isolation Transformer - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 50 Old 06-29-2012, 12:36 PM
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Hello fellow forum users. This should be fun.
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post #32 of 50 Old 06-29-2012, 12:52 PM
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Many misunderstandings throughout this thread though.
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post #33 of 50 Old 06-29-2012, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fastl View Post

How do you know that the person you spoke to at Furman knows what he is talking about? My observations are that many of the people involved with sales and marketing of consumer power conditioning products are disingenuous to say the least (that's the nicest thing I can say). When I see slang terminology like "burn" your UPS, my BS alarm goes off. What exactly are you trying to do?

Hmm don't know anything?
You can always contact me and find out. Since I have lived most of my life in the world of pro audio, I do have a different take on fidelity.
AC Line Impedance is a big problem. And I would suggest a little research in this, will lead to the understanding of why certain devices in power management should NOT be used back to back. Also, AC Line Impedance can effect an amplifiers performance, but with regard to this UPS question remember this simple fact: Manufacturers of power management, design equipment to specifications of electrical codes and safety certifications, and the proper implementation of the designs are critical. Otherwise electronic components can "burn out".

As far as power conditioning and surge protection, many people don't even understand or misinterpret the basic concepts of why it employed in the first place. As a result, they choose the wrong device for the wrong reasons or applications. Most people against the technology have never really beta tested it in multiple location world-wide, for extended period of time, to see its benefits.

Always keep in mind, its always good to be well grounded.

Have a great day!
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post #34 of 50 Old 06-29-2012, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fastl View Post

Frantz


I already recommended that he look for an "online" UPS. That's the industry term for your double conversion UPS. Best Power is no more. They were apparently bought out by Eaton and now sell the product line under the Powerware brand name (which I also recommend).


Incidentally, my APC Smart UPS is currently running from an outlet on my Furman AR-15 Series II line voltage regulator. Neither the Furman or APC have gotten "burned", whatever that is supposed to mean. Same APC UPS had been run directly off a wall socket for over three years without getting "burned" there either. Certainly has seen it's share of line voltage dips, sags, outages and lightning hits, too.

To anyone reading this, DO NOT DO THIS SET UP. The fidelity will be terrible and from a power management stand point, it is an accident waiting to happen.[/quote]
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post #35 of 50 Old 06-29-2012, 06:06 PM
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You come across like the guy in the Monty Python skit that keeps trying to start an argument. I guess that's "fun".
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post #36 of 50 Old 06-29-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikemrmike View Post

To anyone reading this, DO NOT DO THIS SET UP. The fidelity will be terrible and from a power management stand point, it is an accident waiting to happen.
[/quote]

Mike,
I'm not personally set up this way so no dog in the hunt but a statement like this should include the why explanation. It would satisfy curiosity if nothing else and take it out out of the magic, because realm.

Les
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post #37 of 50 Old 06-29-2012, 08:41 PM
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...but a statement like this should include the why explanation....

Yeah! Especially, considering that it has been working like this flawlessly for the last 3 years (or so). Been through many voltage dips and sags, several sudden unexpected power outages, and has also been up and running on the backup emergency generator. That's really funny!
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post #38 of 50 Old 07-01-2012, 12:22 PM
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I can't help with the original question, but I thought this might be of interest to some:

The only power-related component I ever heard and saw improve (while many degraded) audio and video was, believe it or not, a power cord, and it was a relatively cheap one. Desiring a 12 gauge pc to replace the stock 14 gauge pc with my PS Audio Power Director, I stumbled upon a clearance item at HH Gregg, a pc made by Acoustic Research marked down to $20 (originally $50). Happy just to save a few bucks and get a 12 gauge cord I installed it without any expectations. But, to my surprise I found a huge improvement when my music was noticeably better (lower noise floor ) and my plasma TV noticeably cleaner in PQ. The improvements were so startling that I switched the old cord with the new one several times to confirm what I was hearing (and seeing) and verified it was valid to my satisfaction. While the cord had extra shielding, the only thing I can imagine making such a marked difference was the fact that it had a large ferrite core on the input end. Ferrite cores are proven technology (if properly implemented) but they are usually associated with computer monitors and digital TVs (my Panasonic plasma came with a whole set of them) and not with general-use power cords like the Acoustic Research. Now the bad news, for some reason Acoustic Research no longer sells these exceptional power cords, so if you find one leftover (like me) it will be sheer luck. Worth looking for, however, IMO.

"The truth is out there!"
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post #39 of 50 Old 07-01-2012, 06:50 PM
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Derek, I certainly can help with the original question. There was a misconception regarding the daisy-chaining of power conditioning equipment, and I was describing how I had my UPS connected to the output of my Furman AR1215 line voltage stabilizer to the keep the AVR (automatic voltage regulator) in the UPS from responding to line voltage dips. I wasn't "recommending" this arrangement, but just merely noting that the configuration did what I wanted and worked just fine. Had nothing to do with making the audio sound "better".
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post #40 of 50 Old 11-23-2014, 06:21 AM
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ARISE THREAD:

I've been searching the internet for something like this thread. I hope you don't mind me bringing my peasant 5k HT setup question in here. I'm going to be moving to Nigeria for work pretty soon and I'm looking to bring my TV and sound system from here because what they have there predominantly last years models and more expensive than this years models.


The problem is the voltage in Nigeria surges and cuts and has brown outs a lot so I am going to be passing the power through a ups and stabilizing transformer. I was wondering if you could help me decide if it is better to buy a 110 UPS to plug into the transformer, or should I buy a 220-240 UPS and plug the transformer into that.
Basically do you think I should go Wall>UPS>Transformer>TV
or Wall>Transformer>UPS>TV


I had a bad experience once when I plugged a surge protector into a transformer. The surge protector blew immediately. I want to make sure that doesn't happen again.
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post #41 of 50 Old 11-24-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post
<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/t/1062885/can-ups-be-used-with-voltage-stabilizer-and-isolation-transformer/30#post_22178134" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mrmikemrmike</strong> <a href="/t/1062885/can-ups-be-used-with-voltage-stabilizer-and-isolation-transformer/30#post_22178134"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br>

To anyone reading this, DO NOT DO THIS SET UP. The fidelity will be terrible and from a power management stand point, it is an accident waiting to happen.</div>
</div>
<br><br>
Mike,<br>
I'm not personally set up this way so no dog in the hunt but a statement like this should include the why explanation. It would satisfy curiosity if nothing else and take it out out of the magic, because realm.[/QUOTE]

Les and fastl, the explanation with regards to AC Impedance and Fidelity was previously stated in the thread. You must have missed it. I felt no need to reiterate the statement. If you do not believe AC Impedance is an issue, try comparing 18AWG cord set with a 14AWG or a 12AWG on an amplifier. Or plugging an amp into a 100 ft. extension cord. I think the effect will prove the point as you turn up the volume on the system and listen for two to three minutes.

Additional side note: Do not use a Voltage Regulator in tandem with a UPS at point of use/end of the line. (The caveat to this would be a large service entry type UPS e.g 20kVA and a Voltage Regulator at the point of use on one of the 20kVA branch circuits.) Many AC regulators and UPS units are designed in particular different ways. UPS units are designed from the standpoint of the needs of the equipment and Voltage Regulators are design as an extension of the electrical circuit. Hence you will often find 15A, 20A and 30A regulators in 120V regions and 6A, 10A, 16A and 32A regulators in 230V/240V regions; and UPS units in a variety VA ratings, 350VA, 500VA, 1kVA, 1.5kVA, 2.2kVA, etc., etc. Because of this reality, the internal AC wiring buss and matching components of a UPS and a Regulator often will not match, possibly causing a host of issues for the power management equipment and/or the A/V equipment which is powered.

Last edited by mrmikemrmike; 11-24-2014 at 10:56 AM. Reason: additonal note
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post #42 of 50 Old 11-24-2014, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epicnemesis View Post
ARISE THREAD:

I've been searching the internet for something like this thread. I hope you don't mind me bringing my peasant 5k HT setup question in here. I'm going to be moving to Nigeria for work pretty soon and I'm looking to bring my TV and sound system from here because what they have there predominantly last years models and more expensive than this years models.


The problem is the voltage in Nigeria surges and cuts and has brown outs a lot so I am going to be passing the power through a ups and stabilizing transformer. I was wondering if you could help me decide if it is better to buy a 110 UPS to plug into the transformer, or should I buy a 220-240 UPS and plug the transformer into that.
Basically do you think I should go Wall>UPS>Transformer>TV
or Wall>Transformer>UPS>TV


I had a bad experience once when I plugged a surge protector into a transformer. The surge protector blew immediately. I want to make sure that doesn't happen again.
Epic, first you'll want to check the operation voltage range of your equipment. Many electronic devices use universal power supplies operating from 100V-240V 50/60Hz; so it may not be necessary to to step-down and regulated the voltage on all your gear.

Quick note, the reason why a surge devices blow are usually because the threshold for the protection MOV has been exceeded. Example 130V MOV based SPD designed for 120V AC systems is plugged into a step down transformer that is not stepping down the 230V voltage correctly and the output is 132V. The protector will blow. (Performing act encounter this scenario from time to time on tour.) Yet this is why SPD's are made for professional applications in the first place. (Better the protector than the audio equipment)

What you need to decide is whether or not you wished to have battery back-up or not, then choose a technology. If you do need battery back-up, be aware that not all UPS units are universal and may be Hz. dependent (e.g. a 60Hz only UPS will not operate in Nigeria). If you do not need battery back-up, a quality voltage regulator used after the step-down transformer is best. Choose a step-down that exceeds the rating of the regulator (e.g. 2500W step-down powering a 15A (1800W) regulator). The same strategy should be used with a UPS. Keep in mind it is always best to overrate the specification of the step-down by three to four time the "load". If the true power consumption of the equipment is 1000W, then a 3000W step-down should be considered especially if power amplifiers are use. In your case, double check the power requirements of the TV and if it does not have a universal power supply, Wall>Step-Down Transformer>UPS>TV, using UPS unit's EMI filtering to attenuate the AC noise of the step-down transformer. There are UPS units that convert Hz. and regulate to a desired voltage anywhere in the world, yet these are not cheap and it would probably warrant buying a new 230V 4K LED TV at that point.

Regards
Michael

Last edited by mrmikemrmike; 11-24-2014 at 10:59 AM.
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post #43 of 50 Old 11-25-2014, 05:03 AM
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What a detailed response! thanks man.

Can you tell me if this works?

Wall>This transformer>This UPS that takes 50-60Hz>This sound system. Seems like the max wattage is 805Watts and we aren't going to be blasting this thing.
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post #44 of 50 Old 11-26-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epicnemesis View Post
What a detailed response! thanks man.

Can you tell me if this works?

Wall>This transformer>This UPS that takes 50-60Hz>This sound system. Seems like the max wattage is 805Watts and we aren't going to be blasting this thing.
Epic, I recommend you contact Tripp Lite and get their opinion. That would be best since its their product.

And you should not use amplifiers with a UPS units, especially if you expect fidelity. By the way public address system do use UPS units alot of time due to emergency situations where they are most critical. But 70V/100V distribution amplifier is not dynamic like a 2-CH or 5.1, 7.2, etc. and typically, a 2.2kVA or even much larger UPS units are used.

Example:
http://www.parasound.com/halo/a51.php
Check out the Current Capacity under specifications.
Continuous power output:
250 watts RMS x 5, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 Ω, all channels driven
400 watts RMS x 5, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 4 Ω, all channels driven

Current capacity:
60 amperes peak per channel

What does that tell you?
Amplifiers convert Power and are very Dynamic. Its not like plugging in a string of five or six 100W light bulbs.
Regards,
Michael
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post #45 of 50 Old 11-27-2014, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikemrmike View Post
Epic, I recommend you contact Tripp Lite and get their opinion. That would be best since its their product.

And you should not use amplifiers with a UPS units, especially if you expect fidelity. By the way public address system do use UPS units alot of time due to emergency situations where they are most critical. But 70V/100V distribution amplifier is not dynamic like a 2-CH or 5.1, 7.2, etc. and typically, a 2.2kVA or even much larger UPS units are used.

Example:
http://www.parasound.com/halo/a51.php
Check out the Current Capacity under specifications.
Continuous power output:
250 watts RMS x 5, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 8 Ω, all channels driven
400 watts RMS x 5, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 4 Ω, all channels driven

Current capacity:
60 amperes peak per channel

What does that tell you?
Amplifiers convert Power and are very Dynamic. Its not like plugging in a string of five or six 100W light bulbs.
Regards,
Michael
Good to know, thanks.
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post #46 of 50 Old 11-30-2014, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikemrmike View Post
<br><br>
Mike,<br>
I'm not personally set up this way so no dog in the hunt but a statement like this should include the why explanation. It would satisfy curiosity if nothing else and take it out out of the magic, because realm.
Les and fastl, the explanation with regards to AC Impedance and Fidelity was previously stated in the thread. You must have missed it. I felt no need to reiterate the statement. If you do not believe AC Impedance is an issue, try comparing 18AWG cord set with a 14AWG or a 12AWG on an amplifier. Or plugging an amp into a 100 ft. extension cord. I think the effect will prove the point as you turn up the volume on the system and listen for two to three minutes.

Additional side note: Do not use a Voltage Regulator in tandem with a UPS at point of use/end of the line. (The caveat to this would be a large service entry type UPS e.g 20kVA and a Voltage Regulator at the point of use on one of the 20kVA branch circuits.) Many AC regulators and UPS units are designed in particular different ways. UPS units are designed from the standpoint of the needs of the equipment and Voltage Regulators are design as an extension of the electrical circuit. Hence you will often find 15A, 20A and 30A regulators in 120V regions and 6A, 10A, 16A and 32A regulators in 230V/240V regions; and UPS units in a variety VA ratings, 350VA, 500VA, 1kVA, 1.5kVA, 2.2kVA, etc., etc. Because of this reality, the internal AC wiring buss and matching components of a UPS and a Regulator often will not match, possibly causing a host of issues for the power management equipment and/or the A/V equipment which is powered.[/QUOTE]

What prompted the need to answer a post from 2 and a half years ago? I wouldn't have even noticed this if the forum software didn't notify me.

I went back and reread the thread from post 1. All I still see for an explanation pretty much boils down to because.

As to the light gauge extension cord the biggest issue I see is voltage drop due to the resistance, not impedance, which would result in effectively giving the amp a brown out. Not good for the continued health of the power supply.

Now if you left that 100 ft of cable on the cord reel creating an air core inductor there would be impedance effects galore. Not going to try this at home either.

Les
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post #47 of 50 Old 12-01-2014, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post
Les and fastl, the explanation with regards to AC Impedance and Fidelity was previously stated in the thread. You must have missed it. I felt no need to reiterate the statement. If you do not believe AC Impedance is an issue, try comparing 18AWG cord set with a 14AWG or a 12AWG on an amplifier. Or plugging an amp into a 100 ft. extension cord. I think the effect will prove the point as you turn up the volume on the system and listen for two to three minutes.

Additional side note: Do not use a Voltage Regulator in tandem with a UPS at point of use/end of the line. (The caveat to this would be a large service entry type UPS e.g 20kVA and a Voltage Regulator at the point of use on one of the 20kVA branch circuits.) Many AC regulators and UPS units are designed in particular different ways. UPS units are designed from the standpoint of the needs of the equipment and Voltage Regulators are design as an extension of the electrical circuit. Hence you will often find 15A, 20A and 30A regulators in 120V regions and 6A, 10A, 16A and 32A regulators in 230V/240V regions; and UPS units in a variety VA ratings, 350VA, 500VA, 1kVA, 1.5kVA, 2.2kVA, etc., etc. Because of this reality, the internal AC wiring buss and matching components of a UPS and a Regulator often will not match, possibly causing a host of issues for the power management equipment and/or the A/V equipment which is powered.
What prompted the need to answer a post from 2 and a half years ago? I wouldn't have even noticed this if the forum software didn't notify me.

I went back and reread the thread from post 1. All I still see for an explanation pretty much boils down to because.

As to the light gauge extension cord the biggest issue I see is voltage drop due to the resistance, not impedance, which would result in effectively giving the amp a brown out. Not good for the continued health of the power supply.

Now if you left that 100 ft of cable on the cord reel creating an air core inductor there would be impedance effects galore. Not going to try this at home either.[/QUOTE]

*********************

Les, what prompted the need to answer a post from 2 and a half years ago?
I replied because of a new post and I saw yours. I try to respond to every posted reply, but it is not always possible.

Also, Resistance = Impedance in an AC Circuit, calculating for either is the same. Hence me stating "AC Impedance"! But don't take my audio, electronics and electrical education and Grammy background as gospel. You may look it up anywhere. "Resistance is a concept used for DC (direct currents) whereas impedance is the AC (alternating current) equivalent." www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae517.cfm

Happy Holidays
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post #48 of 50 Old 12-01-2014, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikemrmike View Post
What prompted the need to answer a post from 2 and a half years ago? I wouldn't have even noticed this if the forum software didn't notify me.

I went back and reread the thread from post 1. All I still see for an explanation pretty much boils down to because.

As to the light gauge extension cord the biggest issue I see is voltage drop due to the resistance, not impedance, which would result in effectively giving the amp a brown out. Not good for the continued health of the power supply.

Now if you left that 100 ft of cable on the cord reel creating an air core inductor there would be impedance effects galore. Not going to try this at home either.
*********************

Les, what prompted the need to answer a post from 2 and a half years ago?
I replied because of a new post and I saw yours. I try to respond to every posted reply, but it is not always possible.

Also, Resistance = Impedance in an AC Circuit, calculating for either is the same. Hence me stating "AC Impedance"! But don't take my audio, electronics and electrical education and Grammy background as gospel. You may look it up anywhere. "Resistance is a concept used for DC (direct currents) whereas impedance is the AC (alternating current) equivalent." www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae517.cfm

Happy Holidays[/QUOTE]

I think your post and reference pretty much makes my point. While it's been rather longer than I care to admit since I did any EE course work my recollection was that AC impedance is the DC resistance plus any reactance from inductors or capacitors. The reference link confirms this. When you have a 60 Hz power cable laid out straight the reactance part is pretty negligible hence the reason I purposely used resistance in the last post as it is the dominant factor. OK there's some interaction with the surfaces it's laying on and between conductors but at low frequencies it isn't a major player until you get into long runs or put it into conduit or bury it.

You're obviously the expert here from the credentials you're quoting but just saying impedance mismatch isn't really much of an explanation. Does this result because the phase angle between voltage and current in the voltage regulator output is greater than the UPS input is designed to handle? Or something else? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Happy Holidays,

Les
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post #49 of 50 Old 12-01-2014, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Auber View Post
*********************

Les, what prompted the need to answer a post from 2 and a half years ago?
I replied because of a new post and I saw yours. I try to respond to every posted reply, but it is not always possible.

Also, Resistance = Impedance in an AC Circuit, calculating for either is the same. Hence me stating "AC Impedance"! But don't take my audio, electronics and electrical education and Grammy background as gospel. You may look it up anywhere. "Resistance is a concept used for DC (direct currents) whereas impedance is the AC (alternating current) equivalent." www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae517.cfm

Happy Holidays
I think your post and reference pretty much makes my point. While it's been rather longer than I care to admit since I did any EE course work my recollection was that AC impedance is the DC resistance plus any reactance from inductors or capacitors. The reference link confirms this. When you have a 60 Hz power cable laid out straight the reactance part is pretty negligible hence the reason I purposely used resistance in the last post as it is the dominant factor. OK there's some interaction with the surfaces it's laying on and between conductors but at low frequencies it isn't a major player until you get into long runs or put it into conduit or bury it.

You're obviously the expert here from the credentials you're quoting but just saying impedance mismatch isn't really much of an explanation. Does this result because the phase angle between voltage and current in the voltage regulator output is greater than the UPS input is designed to handle? Or something else? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Happy Holidays,[/QUOTE]

*************
Les, everyone's memory can fade. Further all the variables mentioned in the link support the terminology and use of "Impedance" in AC circuits as opposed to "Resistance".
- Also, how about AWG? How about material make up? etc. etc. Yes there are many variables to consider.

Speaker are measured in Ohms. Is that Resistance or Impedance?
And why is that?

Les, without muddying the waters for the Laymen (and Laygals) unfortunately maybe your point does deserve further explanation. But the reference to impedance mis-matching is more or less a reference to "Impedance Matching". Which all can google to their own content. But in practice, "Impedance Matching" is about maximizing the transference of power. An "impedance mismatch" is considered the least efficient method of transference and can at times be destructive.

In terms of AC deliver it is good practice to maximize AC efficiency to amplifiers. And as mentioned previously, the internal AC wiring buss and matching components of a UPS and a Regulator often will not match (with regard to Specifications, Impedance and other variables). This as far as I can go without going really deep on electronics manufacturing and why things are the why there are, yet it more or less has to with acceptable standards and safety certifications. For instance here something from left-field, why do UPS units and their corresponding manual have references to FCC regulations (or even better your refrigerator)? But using UPS units in conjunction with a voltage regulator or another autoformer is not an efficient mode of delivery due the variance of Impedance between the two technologies. It just is... And depending on the load (linear or non-linear), electronics can overheat as a result. I guess the real issue is what if something fails? How bad will that failure be? Could it result in fire (re:undersized conductors)? These are not two technologies to use together, regardless of amp fidelity or not.

Last edited by mrmikemrmike; 12-01-2014 at 06:11 PM.
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post #50 of 50 Old 12-01-2014, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikemrmike View Post
I think your post and reference pretty much makes my point. While it's been rather longer than I care to admit since I did any EE course work my recollection was that AC impedance is the DC resistance plus any reactance from inductors or capacitors. The reference link confirms this. When you have a 60 Hz power cable laid out straight the reactance part is pretty negligible hence the reason I purposely used resistance in the last post as it is the dominant factor. OK there's some interaction with the surfaces it's laying on and between conductors but at low frequencies it isn't a major player until you get into long runs or put it into conduit or bury it.

You're obviously the expert here from the credentials you're quoting but just saying impedance mismatch isn't really much of an explanation. Does this result because the phase angle between voltage and current in the voltage regulator output is greater than the UPS input is designed to handle? Or something else? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Happy Holidays,
*************
Les, everyone's memory can fade. Further all the variables mentioned in the link support the terminology and use of "Impedance" in AC circuits as opposed to "Resistance".
- Also, how about AWG? How about material make up? etc. etc. Yes there are many variables to consider.

Speaker are measured in Ohms. Is that Resistance or Impedance?
And why is that?

Les, without muddying the waters for the Laymen (and Laygals) unfortunately maybe your point does deserve further explanation. But the reference to impedance mis-matching is more or less a reference to "Impedance Matching". Which all can google to their own content. But in practice, "Impedance Matching" is about maximizing the transference of power. An "impedance mismatch" is considered the least efficient method of transference and can at times be destructive.

In terms of AC deliver it is good practice to maximize AC efficiency to amplifiers. And as mentioned previously, the internal AC wiring buss and matching components of a UPS and a Regulator often will not match (with regard to Specifications, Impedance and other variables). This as far as I can go without going really deep on electronics manufacturing and why things are the why there are, yet it more or less has to with acceptable standards and safety certifications. For instance here something from left-field, why do UPS units and their corresponding manual have references to FCC regulations (or even better your refrigerator)? But using UPS units in conjunction with a voltage regulator or another autoformer is not an efficient mode of delivery due the variance of Impedance between the two technologies. It just is... And depending on the load (linear or non-linear), electronics can overheat as a result. I guess the real issue is what if something fails? How bad will that failure be? Could it result in fire (re:undersized conductors)? These are not two technologies to use together, regardless of amp fidelity or not.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

That's what I was asking for. Didn't know if the Furman voltage regulator was an autoformer or some other form of regulation.

And in answer to your quiz question a speaker driver is impedance. The voice coil being inductive. Wire resistance is very small compared to the coil inductance in the impedance equation. That's why I called you on the power cord example. Not much reactance in a straight bit of wire at 60 Hz. The crossover network is also composed of inductors, capacitors along with resistors so that the impedance seen by the amp may be different then the individual drivers. But that's getting a bit far afield and my head hurts.

Les
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