New Sim2 1080 30,000:1 contrast - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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This thread is work in progress.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1063274

Ck out the new Sim2 C3X, new name to be announced as pricing. Brighter with 30,000:1 on/off contrast. It uses the new dynamic black. Oooo
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post #2 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

This thread is work in progress.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1063274

Ck out the new Sim2 C3X, new name to be announced as pricing. Brighter with 30,000:1 on/off contrast. It uses the new dynamic black. Oooo


Very interesting! Will there be an upgrade path for existing C3X1080's?
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post #3 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post

Very interesting! Will there be an upgrade path for existing C3X1080's?

I cannot answer that. Im reporting the news as it comes in from the show. It may be to early at this point even for Sim2 to know as this is not due until next year.
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post #4 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 11:28 AM
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post #5 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

This thread is work in progress.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1063274

It uses the new dynamic black. Oooo

Alan, what it the new dynamic black, please say it's not a DI
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post #6 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 11:58 AM
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Thats 2 C3X1080s up for sale.

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post #7 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:05 PM
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I'm guessing the change is due to adding Dynamic Black.

No way to get dynamic black into existing C3X1080's?
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post #8 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owl1 View Post

Alan, what it the new dynamic black, please say it's not a DI

I think it is the changing of gamma and lamp brightness on the fly.
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post #9 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:22 PM
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I'm gonna go over to Sim2 but now to see the PD Helios

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #10 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:24 PM
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Bland:

??, Are you headed to Helio's now, if so could you let us know the specs?

Thanks

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post #11 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:29 PM
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With 30,000, if this is the machine Sim2 use to hit the DCI color and gamma, I bet I could script Peters response with a high degree of accuracy.

I think the words "toy", "idiots", "delusion" and "clueless" would feature.

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post #12 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:42 PM
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helios $72K 10k to 1 C&R 2x330w bulb

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #13 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

With 30,000, if this is the machine Sim2 use to hit the DCI color and gamma, I bet I could script Peters response with a high degree of accuracy.

I think the words "toy", "idiots", "delusion" and "clueless" would feature.


Yes ,interesting to see what the responses are.

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post #14 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

helios $72K 10k to 1 C&R 2x330w bulb

Bland:

Thank you, is that 10K:1 with dynamic iris?

Did you view the machine in action?
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post #15 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 12:50 PM
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Will the new C3X1080 use the existing case or will there be a new, larger one?
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post #16 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post

Will the new C3X1080 use the existing case or will there be a new, larger one?

It looks to have the same footprint and the same case, or very close.

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post #17 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

helios $72K 10k to 1 C&R 2x330w bulb

Wow, from 50k:1 to 10k:1... and they're trying to sell it for $72k... they're gonna have a hard time with this one...

As far as Sim2 goes, if they're smart, they're gonna price this under $25k. They could already do this with the existing C3X1080 and prices won't be going up in the future.

As far as Dynamic Black goes, that's TIs name for a dynamic iris, yes.

- Stephan
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post #18 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 01:32 PM
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the Titan is my current best in show....... Wow! 15' screen. Gorgeous. Helios demo was marred by the pj being too bright. Typing on iPhone so gotta be brief.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #19 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 01:35 PM
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Titan 3d looked fantastically neat

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #20 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Thats 2 C3X1080s up for sale.

Just two weeks ago I was saying why depreciation is the reason I would not buy something near the high end of the price range, like the C3X1080...

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post #21 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tzucc View Post

Just two weeks ago I was saying why depreciation is the reason I would not buy something near the high end of the price range, like the C3X1080...

Its not like I need to as they aren't still near the top of the food chain. I just love my toys. When I buy an AV piece I never consider depreciation. I think of the money as gone. I look at it as no more than a possible discount off the next toy.

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post #22 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 02:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Its not like I need to as they aren't still near the top of the food chain. I just love my toys. When I buy an AV piece I never consider depreciation. I think of the money as gone. I look at it as no more than a possible discount off the next toy.

Ditto what CM said

Tzucc are you so naieve to think that better upgrades won't happen?
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post #23 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

Ditto what CM said

Tzucc are you so naieve to think that better upgrades won't happen?

That can be the only outlook, OB

I think you either sh*t or get off the pot.

If your C3X1080 is worth much less than you paid 6mths ago, who cares? It will still provide a fantastic image for a while yet.

In the big scheme of things 1080 HD has only just happened, so anyone who bought a C3 or whatever wont NEED to change for years.

Are you interested in the "Better than HD" content?

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post #24 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 02:23 PM
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If Sim2 is going to add Dynamic Black to the C3X1080 and continue to use the existing case, my wild ass guess is that they will offer a path so existing units can be upgraded with Dynamic Black, too.
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post #25 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 02:29 PM
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Remains to be seen;

1) How much of that promised 30,000:1 Sim2 can deliver. In other projectors, Dynamic Black has tripled the native on/off. If that's the case, you might get somewhere around 20k:1.

2) How much of a perceptible difference it makes in viewing.

3) Whether users will want to employ the DB feature or not. With the Planar 8150, pro reviews praised Dynamic Black, but early customer reviews complained about "pumping." Of course, this is Sim2, not Planar, so there is reason to be hopeful about a better implementation.
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post #26 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 02:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post

If Sim2 is going to add Dynamic Black to the C3X1080 and continue to use the existing case, my wild ass guess is that they will offer a path so existing units can be upgraded with Dynamic Black, too.


My bet is they won't

For us dumb a$$es what is dynamic black
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post #27 of 464 Old 09-04-2008, 02:53 PM
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Alright, I'll bet you a penny.

Dynamic Black is a form of dynamic iris that opens and closes based on the content of the particular scene.

If they are offering this in new C3X1080's using the same size case, why wouldn't they offer the upgrade to existing units? Since I don't know the answer, I am going to stay optimistic and gamble my pennies like they're.....I don't know....pesos?
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post #28 of 464 Old 09-05-2008, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

is that 10K:1 with dynamic iris?

It would be optical contrast (no dynamic iris involved just like in the case of the JVCs) as opposed to sequential contrast (Dynamic Iris). projectiondesign makes it a point to promote this as one of their stronger points.

At $72K this projector is about right on the expected price range. Now, for the performance comparison with the competition.
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post #29 of 464 Old 09-05-2008, 08:49 AM
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Dynamic black is a combination of a dynamic iris and gamma manipulation on the fly. Some feel that it is a real asset in getting more apparent, but not real ,bump in contrast but it it isn't technically sequential contrast. This generation of three chip DLPs are getting it for the first time but one chips have had it for a while.

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post #30 of 464 Old 09-05-2008, 09:08 AM
 
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Thanks Art
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