Legacy Whisper Dunlavy SC V opinions - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 615 Old 06-29-2010, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocked One View Post

I've heard many different Bryston amps being used by various high end speakers companies at audio shows, and they've always impressed. I also heard a pair of Bryston's running a pair of the $107,000 YG Acoustics Anat Reference II Professionals in the basement at Audio Limits down in Colorado Springs; huge soundstage and what felt like unlimited reserves!!!

Also, Bryston amps have been rated very highly (A) on Stereophile's "Recommended Components" lists for many years. I'm pretty sure Sunfire's have never ranked beyond a B.

I would say Bryston is a better investment overall.

The 20 year warranty on the Brystons is enticing...it speaks to the company's confidence in their build quality and reliability.

I don't know why I do this to myself, but now I'm looking at a pair of 7B-ST monoblocks (500wpc/8ohms ea). The guy is asking $2500 for the pair, I think $2K is a little more reasonable based on the bluebook value. It's only 100wpc more than the 8B-NRB, but the monoblocks are just cool

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post #362 of 615 Old 06-29-2010, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

I don't know why I do this to myself, ...

Cause you're an audio geek; hello?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

I'm looking at a pair of 7B-ST monoblocks (500wpc/8ohms ea). The guy is asking $2500 for the pair,

I think that Bryston 8B-NRB for $1,000 is a way better fit for you, considering your wife's going to kill you! Plus I'd be willing to bet that in a blind listening test you'd probably never be able to tell the difference between the two.

Also keep in mind that it takes a doubling in power go up just 3 dB''s (http://www.tradcentral.com/ei6iz/HTML/DB1.html) so that jump from 400 to 500 watts would technically only gain you 0.75 dB's.
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post #363 of 615 Old 06-30-2010, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Shocked One View Post

Cause you're an audio geek; hello?



I think that Bryston 8B-NRB for $1,000 is a way better fit for you, considering your wife's going to kill you! Plus I'd be willing to bet that in a blind listening test you'd probably never be able to tell the difference between the two.

Also keep in mind that it takes a doubling in power go up just 3 dB''s (http://www.tradcentral.com/ei6iz/HTML/DB1.html) so that jump from 400 to 500 watts would technically only gain you 0.75 dB's.

Yeah, I was thinking about that too, and you're right on multiple levels (especially the wife factor!). For the price the 8B-NRB is a great deal. The only catch is that it's 7 years older than the 7B-ST's, so it has 3 years left on its warranty vs 10. So the question now becomes is 100wpc plus over double the warranty worth an extra $1K. Decisions, decisions...

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post #364 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 02:53 AM
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Just saw these Dunlavy's for sale in Elk Grove, CA

Black SC-IV's 7/10 $1500
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....avy-SCIV-black

Rosewood SC-IV/A 8/10 $3,000
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....beautiful-rose
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post #365 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocked One View Post

Just saw these Dunlavy's for sale in Elk Grove, CA

Black SC-IV's 7/10 $1500
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....avy-SCIV-black

Rosewood SC-IV/A 8/10 $3,000
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....beautiful-rose

Wow, $1500 is a great deal for some IVs, even if it sounds like they need some aesthetic work.

Edit: Looking at the top driver on the Rosewood SC-IV/A's, does it look like an SC-IV driver with the convex dust cap?

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post #366 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 12:10 PM
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The SC-IV/A are sold already. Man, I don't like the "SOLD" part on Audiogon in replacement of the price. It's tough to see what to see what things sell for if you don't get on fast enough...this way you can create an "average" reference in your head. :S
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post #367 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Edit: Looking at the top driver on the Rosewood SC-IV/A's, does it look like an SC-IV driver with the convex dust cap?

I was wondering too until I took a closer look.
The speaker without the grill is black, which is the old version (non "a")

It looks like the rosewood pair is the "a" and the black pair is the older version.
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post #368 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Osadciw View Post

The SC-IV/A are sold already. Man, I don't like the "SOLD" part on Audiogon in replacement of the price. It's tough to see what to see what things sell for if you don't get on fast enough...this way you can create an "average" reference in your head. :S

That's how they get you to pay for their Blue Book function. I finally just broke down and paid the $50 fee for a year access. After looking through it, I think anyone could easily save much more than $50 by looking at average, high, and low historical data for any used item and negotiating a better price. On the positive side, you can see what things actually sold for vs. what the asking price was, since the sale data is entered after the transaction rather than just using the asking price.

But if you ever have a question about what something sold for, just ask me and I can look it up for you

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Originally Posted by Champ04 View Post

I was wondering too until I took a closer look.
The speaker without the grill is black, which is the old version (non "a")

It looks like the rosewood pair is the "a" and the black pair is the older version.

Right you are, I totally didn't notice that until just now! I'm not surprised those IV/A's sold so quickly, $3K for a pair is a great value, especially with such an uncommon finish.

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post #369 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

I'm not surprised those IV/A's sold so quickly, $3K for a pair is a great value, especially with such an uncommon finish.

Specifically for the SC-IV/A's, the base and upgraded finishes were:

Standard Finishes - Base pricing
Oak (Light Oak; Black Oak)

Special Finishes - $500 Option
Cherry - Standard "Dark"
Cherry - Natural "Light"
Rosewood

Custom Finishes

Group D - $500 Option
Maple
Sapele
Teak
Walnut

Group C - $1,000 Option
Zebrawood
Kevazinga

Group B - $2,000 Option
Birseye Maple
Pommele Sapele
Santos Rosewood

Group A - $3,000 Option
Koa

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post #370 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 01:33 PM
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In case you're also interested in the SC-V's, the base and upgraded finishes were:

Standard Finishes - Base pricing
Oak (Light Oak; Black Oak)

Special Finishes - $1,000 Option
Cherry - Standard "Dark"
Cherry - Natural "Light"
Rosewood

Custom Finishes

Group D - $1,000 Option
Maple
Sapele
Teak
Walnut

Group C - $2,000 Option
Zebrawood
Kevazinga

Group B - $3,000 Option
Birseye Maple
Pommele Sapele
Santos Rosewood

Group A - $7,000 Option
Koa

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post #371 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 01:34 PM
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And rounding out the top of the line SC-VI's, the base and upgraded finishes were:

Standard Finishes - Base pricing
Oak (Light Oak; Black Oak)

Special Finishes - $1,000 Option
Cherry - Standard "Dark"
Cherry - Natural "Light"
Rosewood

Custom Finishes

Group D - $1,000 Option
Maple
Sapele
Teak
Walnut

Group C - $3,000 Option
Zebrawood
Kevazinga

Group B - $5,000 Option
Birseye Maple
Pommele Sapele
Santos Rosewood

Group A - $11,000 Option
Koa

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post #372 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

I'm not surprised those IV/A's sold so quickly, $3K for a pair is a great value, especially with such an uncommon finish.

I wonder which of the two Rosewood options those IV/A's were?

The Duntech Sovereign 2001's I used to have were in the (I believe African) standard Rosewood finish that were one of the two base (no-cost) finishes back then. But they also had an upgraded Brazilian Rosewood finish (which is probably that "Santos" Rosewood?) which was much more and had the most amazing grain!









Those damn dots on the pictures are from the camera! What can I say; I'm too cheap to go get a new camera!
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post #373 of 615 Old 07-01-2010, 07:28 PM
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post #374 of 615 Old 07-02-2010, 10:25 AM
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Wow, a pair of SC-III's for only $1200 - in walnut. Assuming they're in good condition, pretty good deal!

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....&/Dunlavy-SC3-

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post #375 of 615 Old 07-02-2010, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Wow, a pair of SC-III's for only $1200 - in walnut. Assuming they're in good condition, pretty good deal!

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....&/Dunlavy-SC3-

That is a pretty good deal, but I'm so tired of seeing that over half the Dunlavy's that people put up on Audiogon have over-inflated New Retail Prices! This pair by $2,000!!

So when an honest person puts up a real "New Retail" price it doesn't seem like as big a discount deal, percentage-wise!
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post #376 of 615 Old 07-05-2010, 06:44 PM
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Okay, so after doing quite a bit of poking around, I'm strongly considering a pair of Adcom GFA-555 II amps. They're stereo amps, 200wpc, but they can be bridged to 600wpc mono amps, and they can be had for about $450 a piece. Anyone have any recommendations on these? ShockedOne, I know you had some good things to say about the 5800 and 5802 - and these seem to be even more popular!

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post #377 of 615 Old 07-05-2010, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Okay, so after doing quite a bit of poking around, I'm strongly considering a pair of Adcom GFA-555 II amps. They're stereo amps, 200wpc, but they can be bridged to 600wpc mono amps, and they can be had for about $450 a piece. Anyone have any recommendations on these? ShockedOne, I know you had some good things to say about the 5800 and 5802 - and these seem to be even more popular!

I would definitely say get the GFA-5800 over the GFA-555 II's!

I know there are tons of people out there who swear by those older Adcom amps, but on the SC-V's (which I've run for HUNDREDS, if not thousands, of hours with MANY, MANY different amps!) the GFA-5800 and the sonically identical (even though it was a newer generation) GFA-5802 handled those woofers beautifully while still maintaining that glorious mid-bass Dunlavy is known for! When I ran my friend's 555's (not the II's) and 565's, even though the frequency response was all there, the mid-bass presentation went totally flat/stale. They just didn't sound as musical as they did with the newer amps.

As for the 5800 and the 5802, whenever I'd rotate those two in and out of the system, I honestly couldn't tell the difference in slam, transparency, Max SPL or silkiness. Although I'll always hate that 5800's power button compared to the 5802's gold plated (up and down) flip switch!

By the way, did I (or anyone else for that matter) ever mention what the "F" stood for in GFA? (Great ****ing Amp)

My big question is whatever happened to that $1,000 Bryston you had talked about? If you're going to spend $900 on a pair of 555II's, I would imagine that Bryston is about as high-end as you can get for that amount.

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post #378 of 615 Old 07-05-2010, 07:34 PM
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By the way, did I (or anyone else for that matter) ever mention what the "F" stood for in GFA? (Great ****ing Amp)

That's so cool! I had actually spelled out the "F" word when I wrote this; but when I submitted, the system automatically substituted with the **** symbols! Very nice...

(I know, I know; I'm a dork!!!)

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post #379 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocked One View Post

I would definitely say get the GFA-5800 over the GFA-555 II's!

I know there are tons of people out there who swear by those older Adcom amps, but on the SC-V's (which I've run for HUNDREDS, if not thousands, of hours with MANY, MANY different amps!) the GFA-5800 and the sonically identical (even though it was a newer generation) GFA-5802 handled those woofers beautifully while still maintaining that glorious mid-bass Dunlavy is known for! When I ran my friend's 555's (not the II's) and 565's, even though the frequency response was all there, the mid-bass presentation went totally flat/stale. They just didn't sound as musical as they did with the newer amps.

As for the 5800 and the 5802, whenever I'd rotate those two in and out of the system, I honestly couldn't tell the difference in slam, transparency, Max SPL or silkiness. Although I'll always hate that 5800's power button compared to the 5802's gold plated (up and down) flip switch!

By the way, did I (or anyone else for that matter) ever mention what the "F" stood for in GFA? (Great ****ing Amp)

My big question is whatever happened to that $1,000 Bryston you had talked about? If you're going to spend $900 on a pair of 555II's, I would imagine that Bryston is about as high-end as you can get for that amount.


Huh, interesting - thanks for the feedback. When you listened to the 555's, was it as a stereo amp or bridged with one amp on each speaker? I don't know if that would make a difference or not. The Bryston is still out there, but it seems that the 555II's are insanely popular and were well reviewed, so I figured 600wpc for the same price as 400wpc was a no-brainer, assuming the distortion figures were similar. So what makes you say that the Bryston would be the better amp?

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post #380 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Huh, interesting - thanks for the feedback. When you listened to the 555's, was it as a stereo amp or bridged with one amp on each speaker? I don't know if that would make a difference or not.

We ran them both as mono-blocks and as a single stereo amp. Keep in mind that we were mostly just settling an argument on old versus new quality and refinement, (which even he had to cave into once I pointed out specific things to listen for) so I mostly only remember the outcome and not the details. The main two things I do remember pointing out was how the mid-bass/lower bass sounded better/cleaner/faster (more controlled) on the 5800 and how the presence of the instruments sounded more "real". As to the differences between running one amp or two; since neither beat mine out (based on the criteria we were arguing over) we didn't really focus on that so I don't really want to publicly comment.
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The Bryston is still out there, but it seems that the 555II's are insanely popular and were well reviewed, so I figured 600wpc for the same price as 400wpc was a no-brainer, assuming the distortion figures were similar.

As to the popularity issue, I often ask myself that question about other audio oddities. Why is there such a following of (Klipsch and other) horn speakers when I personally think they all SUCK ass? Why do some people swear by 70's and 80's receivers, or those cheap dynaco/heathkit/hafler home-made kit amps when the newer stuff just puts them to shame? My guess is part nostalgia, part jealousy? Kind of the same reasons a 60's Jaguar owner or a 70's Muscle-car owner might say about a modern day Jaguar/muscle-car; "they sure don't make them like they used to!"

I lived through that era and at the time I remember drooling over the now famous 270 watt Pioneer SX-1980 and (my personal favorite) the 330 watt Technics SA-1000 receivers. I would buy that Technics in a second if I could! But I wouldn't fool myself into believing that they'd make a pair of Dunlavy's sound "better" than a modern day top of the line receiver! It is what it is, I guess.
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So what makes you say that the Bryston would be the better amp?

- Stereophile's Recommended Components Lists every April and October (Which I know some people will say is skewed) and The Absolute Sound (TAS) have always praised them and ranked Brystons highly. When I had the Adcoms, I'm pretty sure I remember them being rated a "B" amp. I was fine with that B ranking given all the other options out there, so the Adcoms was good enough for me. I also know Brystons have definitely made it into the "A" category. So I figure it just makes sense that they're probably better.

- Then there's also the fact that so many different vendors constantly use them in their display rooms at audio shows. That makes me think they're probably more refined than any Adcom amp Past, Present or Future. (Keep in mind this is coming from a current Adcom owner, so I'm not hating on Adcom; just trying to keep it real!)

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post #381 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 08:41 AM
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Yeah I did some reading on the Bryston vs other amps, and even the rigidly objective reviewers (the kinds that take all sorts of measurements - my kinda reviewers!) like the Brystons a lot. Very low THD, ruler flat FR, conservatively rated power output, and awesome warranty. I think I'll stick with the Bryston!

One last question - the crating company wants to crate the SC-V's laying down (face up) and ship them that way. Are the drivers going to be okay for shipping in that position, or should they be crated/shipped standing up since they're designed structurally with only that orientation in mind?

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post #382 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

One last question - the crating company wants to crate the SC-V's laying down (face up) and ship them that way. Are the drivers going to be okay for shipping in that position, or should they be crated/shipped standing up since they're designed structurally with only that orientation in mind?

The three models I shipped that way all made it to Europe safely (crossing the Atlantic by boat!) with no damage whatsoever.

Here are the Sigma's
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #383 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 09:06 AM
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The V's...
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #384 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 09:13 AM
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And the IV's...
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #385 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 09:33 AM
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Well, that's good enough for me - thanks for the response and info!

There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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post #386 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

One last question - the crating company wants to crate the SC-V's laying down (face up) and ship them that way. Are the drivers going to be okay for shipping in that position, or should they be crated/shipped standing up since they're designed structurally with only that orientation in mind?

Actually, if you think about it. Having them lay flat on their sides would be the same thing as having them stand up. At least as far as the drivers are concerned.

That being said, most speakers the world over are shipped by laying them on their backs with the face up. In this position the diaphragms are free to move in the direction that they are actually intended to move while producing music. Since most travel induced vibrations will occur in the vertical direction (with respect to earth) having the speakers on their backs would consequently allow a little more of this movement to occur.

But the bottom line is that it really isn't going to make any difference regardless of how they are oriented.
Most speakers are shipped with the drivers facing upwards simply because, when uncrating them, it is obvious where they are. That way people are less likely to punch in a driver when trying to grab the speaker in order to get it out of the box!
While working retail I occasionally had a customer bring back a pair of bookshelf speakers claiming that the tweeter had arrived "punched in". The reality was that most bookshelf speakers are shipped in the vertical position. And when the consumer reaches in to grab the speaker they invariably grab at the face and poke in the tweeter. Down side to this......... warranty doesn't cover user error like this.
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post #387 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 10:18 AM
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And the IV's...


I knew I'd seen that picture before!!!

http://www.sandervanderheide.nl/?tag=dunlavy

Watch the video at the bottom. You can see that they arrived perfectly safe and sound. And even though I don't understand the language it appears as though the buyer is happy!!
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I knew I'd seen that picture before!!!

http://www.sandervanderheide.nl/?tag=dunlavy

Watch the video at the bottom. You can see that they arrived perfectly safe and sound. And even though I don't understand the language it appears as though the buyer is happy!!

Actually, you are partially correct. The guy in the striped shirt is Sander Vanderheide, but that's the first pair of SC-IV's he purchased locally in Europe when he first bought the Recording Studio he had worked at for 6 years. He wanted to replace their old B&W inventory because he said he didn't like their mid-bass and when he had spoken to Bob Ludwig (The most accomplished recording engineer ever!!!), he had recommended the Duntech Sovereigns and/or the the later Dunlavy's. (Bob Ludwig himself had bought an all Duntech Sovereign system when he too opened his own studio after working for decades in the industry!)

So mine were actually the second pair Sander bought. If you go up one article from where that video is, you'll see a picture of Dareld from Denver Reel and Pallet when he came to measure my speakers for crates. That picture is in my bedroom and that's actually the computer desk where I'm typing this right now! In that article, you'll see him mention "Benny Rodriguez" (although he misspelled it) of Littleton, CO. That's me!

Then if you then go one article above that one, you'll see that first picture I just posted about the IV's.

This is that recording studio's main website (With my old speakers in the background):
http://www.saintofsound.nl/

After some lighting changes and height adjustment to match the booth height
(My old speakers ended up becoming his main left and right because of their well cared for condition):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sanderv...de/4402033221/

Arrival day in the Netherlands (scroll to the bottom of the page):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandervanderheide/page5/

My house, my garage, packing the speakers (some of the same as I just posted):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandervanderheide/page6/
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post #389 of 615 Old 07-06-2010, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Yeah I did some reading on the Bryston vs other amps, and even the rigidly objective reviewers (the kinds that take all sorts of measurements - my kinda reviewers!) like the Brystons a lot. Very low THD, ruler flat FR, conservatively rated power output, and awesome warranty. I think I'll stick with the Bryston!

Coincidentally when Sander first got his Dunlavy's he borrowed a bunch of amps from different friends in the industry to experiment with; aren't those Bryston's on the left side that Sander is posing with? Along with the pair of Classe's, the Pass, the Bel Canto and I think a Black Parasound??? I don't know what he ended up with...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sanderv...de/3341202570/

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Just saw yet another pair of SC-IV's pop up, this time in New York for $5,500!

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/ele/1827816270.html

And I still haven't found a new home for my SC-III.A's at a measly $2,000 on a local cash and carry!!!
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