Who has auditioned the Kharma Grand Exquisite 7.1 Cinema Package? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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As we try to address the Torus based cinema rooms I have been looking for a more well rounded super high end cinema and surround offering than Dynaudio for several reasons, mainly the lack of a dedicated Confidence or Evidence Surround Speaker, the confidence 1 is ridiculously deep for side channel applications, and for years I have been asking them to build an Esotar based.

This system seems to have EVERYTHING I am looking for...



http://www.kharma.com/_images/review...io_02_back.jpg

D'appolito monoliths to flank the Torus without obnoxious side firing woofers that would excite the screen (read Arakis),this proven Torus friendly configuration can be driven with normal amplifiers, instead of the array systems that require a dedicated 7.4 channel processor probably inferior to the new TACT; D'appolito side channels that are also outfitted by my favorite type of tweeter the Diamond Tweeter (as evidenced in the top B&W's) (THE DIAMOND TWEETER REHABILITATED B&W from many years of being a Crack Whore on the street).

The sides are gorgeous and priced suitable for it's inclusion in a Moon Of Saturn. They are self powered like the center channel but only 9 inches deep, this is the form factor that is needed for on wall side surrounds.

So has anyone ever heard this system? Cause I'd like it for a 12 channel system.
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post #2 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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From: http://www.avguide.com/blog/kharma-g...te-loudspeaker

"The other two Grand Exquisite systems in Istanbul (pictured below) belong to two of Adnan's friends and clients:
All three sounded genuinely superb, with perhaps the best stage depth and imaging I've yet heard from a large cone loudspeaker and some of the most lifelike timbre and dynamics I've heard period. The Grand Exquisites give up nothing to their dynamic competition in resolution, frequency extension, soundstaging, dynamics, and naturalness of timbre. They are undoubtedly world-class transducers--the best that Kharma has to offer.

At Kharma's offices in Breda, I got to hear the Grand Exquisites for a fourth time, sounding just as extraordinary as they did in Istanbul:

It is rare (but highly preferable) to be able to audition the same loudspeaker in four different venues. The experience gives you a much surer sense of how the speaker will perform in different rooms. In this case, I can honestly say, that the room was never much of a factor. The Grand Exquisites strutted their extraordinary stuff with equal impressiveness in all four venues, which speaks to the fundamental neutrality of this transducer's drivers and the inertness of its cabinet.

Speaking of Kharma's cabinets, I got to see several of them being made at a high-end furniture factory outside of Breda. Van Oosterum uses unusually dense high-tech materials (formed from compressed paper and laminates to give it just the right stiffness and flexibility) for the cabinet walls of his Exquisite Series speakers. In the near future I'll post some pictures of Kharma speakers under construction.

For the nonce, rest assured that the Grand Exquisite has joined my little pantheon of truly world-class loudspeakers, alongside the likes of MBL 101 X-Tremes, Symposium Acoustics Panoramas, Magico Mini IIs, Martin Logan CLXes, and Rockport Hyperions. That's how good I think they are."
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post #3 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 12:49 PM
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I haven't listened to their cinema package but heard the Grand Exquisites in super high end 2 channel system. (http://www.avguide.com/forums/kharma...speaker?page=1)
I think they are one of the best speakers in the world. Much better than Wilsons, Rockports, etc.

I'm sure they will sound great in a HT but I think it's a bit overkill to have these giants as surround speakers
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post #4 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you very much Murat, that gives me the green light... [THE DESCRIPTION AND CURRENT PRICE COMES COURTESY OF THE AUDIO FEDERATIONS WEBSITE



I would only use these for left and Right of course, the center channel would be this one...

The center channel to use for that exquisite home theater setup.

"The centre-speaker has a very important role in a home-cinema system, because most of the speech is mixed down to this speaker. By using two of the three ceramic units for the sub-low and the remaining for the mid range the frequency-area of speech will be brought alive in a way that has never been done before.

The multiple-layer cabinet is pressed in between two HPL plates, leaving no room for resonance of the body. Available as passive and active speaker and include[s] a beautiful stand."

Passive version: $46,000.00
Active version: $55,800.00

and for the surround several pairs of these...
The surround channel to use for that exquisite home theater setup.

"Developed for the ultimate Home Theater system use this speaker can be used on-wall or partly in-wall. The inside of the cabinet uses patented Exquisite technology minimizing air born resonance. The powered version uses the state of the art Kharma amplifiers. Standard are enigma technology and 25mm diamond" tweeter.

Passive version: $24,500.00
Active version: $32,800.00

Even the subwoofer looks very well built.



The subwoofer to use with the Mini Exquisite speaker or home theater setup for that extra oomph.

"Huge active subwoofer with 2 Horsepower firing into an 18 inch extreme long throw sub. The huge HPL-cabinet is finished with wood and aluminum. Kharma is not responsible for environmental damage due to construction fatigue of the building construction."

$32,800.00
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post #5 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 01:05 PM
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BTW, I have just bought the Exquisite Center to replace my Wilson Audio center. It's way better than Wilson. A day and night diffrence... you won't regret it.
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post #6 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you get the passive or the active? I get great support from ML here in Florida so i thought a 52.
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post #7 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 01:11 PM
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While I don't doubt they sound great I wonder if they're powerful enough for your clients. iirc you were looking for 130+ db output.

Design by Rives...dollars by The Bogg

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post #8 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll settle for 125, maybe I'll use three centers ... lc,c,rc

No really these speakers should play 125+ easily with 500 watts.
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post #9 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 01:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murat View Post

BTW, I have just bought the Exquisite Center to replace my Wilson Audio center. It's way better than Wilson. A day and night diffrence... you won't regret it.


$55K for a center channel that gives only dialog IMHO is (even for me) absurd. When you say night and day difference b/n the Wilson Center and the Kharma, does it talk in different languages for $55K ?

To use $300K speakers for left and right channel in a HT is likewise absurd unless of course they are also used for music.
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post #10 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Did you get the passive or the active? I get great support from ML here in Florida so i thought a 52.

I have bought the passive version which is fed by a Mark Levinson 433 mono amp.
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post #11 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 01:46 PM
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A couple of years ago these very small Kharma 3.2's (with Kharma sub) replaced a pair of Dynaudio Temptations in my audio system and were easily in another league pretty much across the board. I'm not sure I would use Accuton driver based Kharmas in a theater unless the program was reasonable (105db) sound levels and below no matter what they're spec'd at. The ceramic drivers don't move as much air in the midrange or provide the same level of dynamics as the Wilsons in the mids and when pushed, especially with non musical signal will explode into a pile of dust (think broken ceramic dishes) but other than that I would recommend them without reservation. The 3.2' FE's were one of the best speakers I've owned if not the best within the limits listed above. Sweet, delicate, detailed, 3D soundstage, great tone etc.
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Owl1
I see you were driving those Kharmas with ML 2.1's.
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post #13 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

$55K for a center channel that gives only dialog IMHO is (even for me) absurd. When you say night and day difference b/n the Wilson Center and the Kharma, does it talk in different languages for $55K ?

To use $300K speakers for left and right channel in a HT is likewise absurd unless of course they are also used for music.


OB you have my great respect and admiration in all matters of audiophilia but I have a special circumstance with the Torus screen situation and the type of rooms I get to work in. I am tied to Large floorstanding D'appolito configs for Left Right, in the past the Temptaions were used, the c4's are great but do not have the dynamics past 105db. Yet Dynaudio does not offer a side surround speaker of substantial quality to match the temptations, and I am partial to diamond tweeters.

The room will be used for music and cinema both (but in Multichannel) probably using an Esoteric sacd too.

Here is a montage of what could be possible...



The room dimensions I have in mind are similar to that on the bottom right...
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post #14 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:24 PM
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post #15 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:32 PM
 
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Cineramax

Be prepared for potential audio issues as a result of that Torus screen when your client is playing music
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post #16 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

$55K for a center channel that gives only dialog IMHO is (even for me) absurd. When you say night and day difference b/n the Wilson Center and the Kharma, does it talk in different languages for $55K ?

To use $300K speakers for left and right channel in a HT is likewise absurd unless of course they are also used for music.

I guess the Kharma prices in US is much higher than EU. Plus I haven't bought the active version and I also bought it with Ti tweeter instead of the very expensive Diamond tweeter. On top of that I've got a good deal from the dealer who's a good friend of mine. So I've paid very much less than the figure you mentioned.

As for the sound quality difference between Kharma and Wilson, there is no point for me to tell you how much better they are, you should just listen them yourself in a good environment. I have been a Wilson Audio admirer for a very long time like yourself but then switched to other speakers (Gryphon) as they were sounding much better to me.

I strongly suggest that you should give a try to Kharma speakers if there is a dealer close to you.
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as an aside as we are all whiling away the time til kickoff...."Go Cardinals!!!"
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post #18 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Cineramax

Be prepared for potential audio issues as a result of that Torus screen when your client is playing music


I am aware of some low level reflections that may be audible in soft passages but if you see Steve Haas critique of my Torus countermeasures all those potential problems have been widely tamed.

In any event we are talking about 300k speakers sitting nest to a $5M 3D image experience so the trade off is warranted and fully controllable.
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post #19 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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as an aside as we are all whiling away the time til kickoff...."Go Cardinals!!!"

I got my 3d glasses at Target.
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post #20 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murat View Post

I guess the Kharma prices in US is much higher than EU. Plus I haven't bought the active version and I also bought it with Ti tweeter instead of the very expensive Diamond tweeter. On top of that I've got a good deal fromthe dealer who's a good friend of me. So I've paid very much less that the figure you mentioned.

As for the sound quality difference between Kharma and Wilson, there is no point for me to tell you how much better they are, you should just listen them yourself in a good environment. I have been a Wilson Audio admirer for a very long time like yourself but then switched to other speakers (Gryphon) as they were sounding much better to me.

I strongly suggest that you should give a try to Kharma speakers if there is a dealer close to you.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I have a lot of money (as you ) in my system but I would never pay $55K for a center channel whose only purpose is dialog. If you feel you get better dialog with the Kharma rather than the Wilson, that's OK ..just not my cup of tea.

BTW, I do like Kharma speakers for music.
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post #21 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murat View Post

I guess the Kharma prices in US is much higher than EU. Plus I haven't bought the active version and I also bought it with Ti tweeter instead of the very expensive Diamond tweeter. On top of that I've got a good deal from the dealer who's a good friend of mine. So I've paid very much less than the figure you mentioned.

As for the sound quality difference between Kharma and Wilson, there is no point for me to tell you how much better they are, you should just listen them yourself in a good environment. I have been a Wilson Audio admirer for a very long time like yourself but then switched to other speakers (Gryphon) as they were sounding much better to me.

I strongly suggest that you should give a try to Kharma speakers if there is a dealer close to you.

There are none, in this country the high end audio industry generally eschews European vendors.
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post #22 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I am aware of some low level reflections that may be audible in soft passages but if you see Steve Haas critique of my Torus countermeasures all those potential problems have been widely tamed.

In any event we are talking about 300k speakers sitting nest to a $5M 3D image experience so the trade off is warranted and fully controllable.

I am not so sure that it is fully controllable as you suggest.
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post #23 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 02:49 PM
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Different strokes for different folks I guess. I have a lot of money (as you ) in my system but I would never pay $55K for a center channel whose only purpose is dialog. If you feel you get better dialog with the Kharma rather than the Wilson, that's OK ..just not my cup of tea.

OB, as I watch more movies than listening music lately, I can definetely say that Center speaker is very very important. You don't just get dialog from the center but you also get many other sounds, like effects, music, sounds during passing by objects (cars, planes, etc) from side to side. I think Wilson center is very good center and if you don't care much about movies it's more than enough. But as I said you don't have to pay the most expensive version of the Kharma center, buy it with less the amp, stand, diamond tweeter, get a good deal and you'll pay half the figure you mention.
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OB, as I watch more movies than listening music lately, I can definetely say that Center speaker is very very important. You don't just get dialog from the center but you also get many other sounds, like effects, music, sounds during passing by objects (cars, planes, etc) from side to side. I think Wilson center is very good center and if you don't care much about movies it's more than enough. But as I said you don't have to pay the most expensive version of the Kharma center, buy it with less the amp, stand, diamond tweeter, get a good deal and you'll pay half the figure you mention.


well as I said different strokes....I just would never spend that kind of coin on a center channel. I must say we are all waiting for the much rumored Wilson Polaris center channel that is supposedly a better match for the larger Wilson speakers BUT if it comes in at $55K, I say count me out.
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any event we are talking about 300k speakers sitting nest to a $5M 3D image experience so the trade off is warranted and fully controllable

BTW, maybe I'm getting old but I just don't get all the fuss about 3D. Also not my cup of tea.
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post #26 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

well as I said different strokes....I just would never spend that kind of coin on a center channel. I must say we are all waiting for the much rumored Wilson Polaris center channel that is supposedly a better match for the larger Wilson speakers BUT if it comes in at $55K, I say count me out.

I'm sure that the Polaris will be much better than the current center speaker and will not cost $55K. But when will it come out, it's been ages since they mentioned it
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post #27 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 03:33 PM
 
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Only DW knows for sure. It has been in the rumor mill for 3-4 years.
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post #28 of 313 Old 02-01-2009, 04:09 PM
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I find it both strange and hilarious with high-end companys that have outrageous prices for their stuff and still don't understand the most basic physics laws. Why on earth do they have spikes?

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #29 of 313 Old 02-02-2009, 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

There are none, in this country the high end audio industry generally eschews European vendors.

Of course there is. GTT Audio Video as clearly indicated on Kharma's website
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post #30 of 313 Old 02-02-2009, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

BTW, maybe I'm getting old but I just don't get all the fuss about 3D. Also not my cup of tea.

Agreed but OB ... what about Jenna Jameson in 3D on a 14' screen?



P.S. About the Kharma speakers mentioned in this thread, I find them to be ugly, unattractive and over-priced for starters! On the performance side they might be the dog's bollocks for all I care but when spending that amount, no stone should be left unturned be it aesthetics, performance, components, engineering, technology and what not etc. These are a bunch of ugly mugs even if they will be hidden at the end of the day.
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