Sim2 Lumis Owners Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1962 Old 05-17-2009, 02:21 PM
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Jeff drop the contrast from your source not the projector. That will clean it up.
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post #632 of 1962 Old 05-17-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I'm doing a calibration best as I can until my calibrator arrives..

In setting the contrast, it seems I am clipping whites.. Can only see up to bar #246 on the Spears and Muncil Blu Ray test disc.. Blacks are fine. SO, I seem to be clipping whites..

I know there are some differences of opinion here, but I wouldn't worry about it if you are clipping at level 246. Lots of people clip everything above 235 and there is some debate about how much material there is with codes above 235. While some people will make sure they see all the way up to the highest code just in case some material has that, I think going to level 246 is fine for the way things are out there. Especially if you have any issues with wanting more light in the images. If the projector is too bright set up like that then you might want to drop the Contrast a little more (or go to filtering), but otherwise I wouldn't sweat clipping at 246.

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post #633 of 1962 Old 05-17-2009, 07:14 PM
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Thanks Alan / Darin,

I will try the contrast settings in my BD player.

One thing I am curious about is this test disc suggests you should see all white bars (beyond 246).. Though the HDMI range in my BD player is either 16-235 ('normal' mode) or (enhanced) 0-246.. So it seems like I am in spec.

One thing I noticed is that when I run the pattern (player) through my SSP, I get 235 max... When I bypass my SSP, I can get up to 246. So, the SSP is at the 'normal' HDMI RGB levels maxing at 235 - blacks are fine.

Should I bypass my SSP ( I could use a 2X2 HDMI splitter and run 1 output to my LUMIS and the other to my SSP). This way I can send the full RGB signal (246) to my PJ and avoid my SSP's clipping it to 235) or is getting to 246 more theoretical advantage (as Darin eluded to)?

Another question is if a player spec maxes out at 246, why does the test disc say you should be able to see beyond 246? How can you do this?

Thanks!

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post #634 of 1962 Old 05-17-2009, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

One thing I am curious about is this test disc suggests you should see all white bars (beyond 246).. Though the HDMI range in my BD player is either 16-235 ('normal' mode) or (enhanced) 0-246.. So it seems like I am in spec.

Enhanced should be 0-255 (or 1 less). I'm not sure whether it is your player, projector, or some other device that is limiting things to 246. You shouldn't be limited to 246 technically, but my point is more that I wouldn't sweat it since you are already getting 11 steps above 235, which is where some people choose to clip.
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

This way I can send the full RGB signal (246) to my PJ and avoid my SSP's clipping it to 235) or is getting to 246 more theoretical advantage (as Darin eluded to)?

I don't know. It is partially your preference and I would go largely by things like whether you see more banding one way than the other.
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Another question is if a player spec maxes out at 246, why does the test disc say you should be able to see beyond 246? How can you do this?

It should go beyond 246. Stacey and Don are right about that. The problem is partially that the system was designed so that reference white would be at 235 and then the signal would have some room above that. But a lot of people took that to mean that things should clip at 235 and I think a fair amount of content does it that way. I know some Pixar stuff goes higher, but I don't know about much other content going higher. The way I see it is that in theory signals should be going above reference white (235) a fair amount, but in reality I think if you retain the signals just above 235 you are pretty good. It becomes diminishing returns after that and this is one reason I would be satisfied stopping at 246. There might be some content where you would get some clipping because of stopping at 246, but I think it would be reasonably rare and especially that you would actually notice it.

I see retaining beyond your 246 as largely a philosophical choice, even though I think that technically we should all be retaining all the levels above reference white. I'm sure some would debate even that though and say that we should clip levels above 235.

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post #635 of 1962 Old 05-18-2009, 06:07 AM
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Thanks, Darin.. I appreciate your thorough answer. Makes sense.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #636 of 1962 Old 05-18-2009, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Thanks Alan / Darin,

I will try the contrast settings in my BD player.

One thing I am curious about is this test disc suggests you should see all white bars (beyond 246).. Though the HDMI range in my BD player is either 16-235 ('normal' mode) or (enhanced) 0-246.. So it seems like I am in spec.

One thing I noticed is that when I run the pattern (player) through my SSP, I get 235 max... When I bypass my SSP, I can get up to 246. So, the SSP is at the 'normal' HDMI RGB levels maxing at 235 - blacks are fine.

Should I bypass my SSP ( I could use a 2X2 HDMI splitter and run 1 output to my LUMIS and the other to my SSP). This way I can send the full RGB signal (246) to my PJ and avoid my SSP's clipping it to 235) or is getting to 246 more theoretical advantage (as Darin eluded to)?

Another question is if a player spec maxes out at 246, why does the test disc say you should be able to see beyond 246? How can you do this?

Thanks!

Note I did a quick setup of contrast using my Accupel (where is was not clipping), so if the BluRay is clipping the whites it probably is coming from the source.
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post #637 of 1962 Old 05-18-2009, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Note I did a quick setup of contrast using my Accupel (where is was not clipping), so if the BluRay is clipping the whites it probably is coming from the source.

I wouldn't be surprised.. I am going to further check out source settings (e.g. contrast and different display modes)..

Anything I should look at in the HOST I may've missed?

Thanks

(Jason, check your email).

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post #638 of 1962 Old 05-18-2009, 08:43 AM
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No it's pretty straight forward, but I do know the Denon sources (such as you use) are a bit skewed in the settings and need adjustment.
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post #639 of 1962 Old 05-18-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Jeff drop the contrast from your source not the projector. That will clean it up.

Alan,

you were right.

I went into my Denon video adjustments and dropped the contrast 1 level and all the WTW bars showed up.. I was at '0' prior (default).

Thanks! (bug in the Denon BD player defaults)

All is good with WTW and BTB.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #640 of 1962 Old 05-18-2009, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Alan,

you were right.

I went into my Denon video adjustments and dropped the contrast 1 level and all the WTW bars showed up.. I was at '0' prior (default).

Thanks! (bug in the Denon BD player defaults)

All is good with WTW and BTB.

Its just to bad your top of the line projector cant take advantage of "upconverted deep color"
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post #641 of 1962 Old 05-20-2009, 04:30 PM
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Couple of Lumis questions..

1. What is 'Auto' memory? I know it is memory 0 but the manual is not clear exactly what it does or why to use it?

2. How do you set a default memory for a given input (e.g. memory 3). I don't see how to do it. My Lumis always seems to bring up memory 1 when I turn it on. How do I change this to, say, Memory 3 for example when things power up?

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post #642 of 1962 Old 05-20-2009, 09:29 PM
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Hi Jeff, I was wondering how you like the lumis thus far, and how it compares with some of the other projectors you have seen. Thanks Greg
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post #643 of 1962 Old 05-21-2009, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg Young View Post

Hi Jeff, I was wondering how you like the lumis thus far, and how it compares with some of the other projectors you have seen. Thanks Greg

I'll like it more when I get a full calibration.. but so far, I like it.. I am still getting used to the menu system and am trying to still figure things out... The manual leaves much to be desired.

It is bright. I watched a 1.85 film last night in pixel to pixel mode and it looked great, bright, punchy. Blacks look great and it is quiet..

Now, if it were over my head like Health Nut and others may mount it, it might be a bit offensive - exp on high lamp mode (the fan picks up).

All and all, nice.

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post #644 of 1962 Old 06-01-2009, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

How do you set a default memory for a given input (e.g. memory 3). I don't see how to do it. My Lumis always seems to bring up memory 1 when I turn it on. How do I change this to, say, Memory 3 for example when things power up?

Jeff,

Just set the picture parameters where you want them, call up the Memories list, scroll to the one you want, then press left cursor to enter store mode.

Also, both memories and inputs can be renamed. I usually assign the input and memory the same name. The on-screen display will then show confirmation that the correct memory is selected for the source.


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post #645 of 1962 Old 06-01-2009, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post

Jeff,

Just set the picture parameters where you want them, call up the Memories list, scroll to the one you want, then press left cursor to enter store mode.

Also, both memories and inputs can be renamed. I usually assign the input and memory the same name. The on-screen display will then show confirmation that the correct memory is selected for the source.


Ken Whitcomb

Thanks Ken, that Input and Memory name the same is a good idea.

A few thoughts after 3 weeks with the Lumis:

1. Vertical / mechanical lens shift is not as great as I would've hope for.. You have to have the Lumis pretty close to the top of the screen and not much on top if it (like I do). My Lumis is 8"-9" above my screen and I am getting a bit of keystoning at the lower left and right masks... (1.5" on wither side when in scope mode). I tried the electronic keystone controls and they really play havoc with the test patterns but looked OK on movie material. There electronic keystoning was better than Sony's but the Qualia had greater mechanical vertical lens shift. I may move my projector down.. but that will require a bit of minor surgery.

2. You cannot save 'Dynamic Black On or Off' into a Memory.. It is always enabled or disabled depending on where it was last at last viewing session. I tried to save it as ON in one memory and OFF in another but it would not work.

3. Very bright. I have much more punch than my Sony. I run it in lowest lamp for 16:9 and 250W for 2.35 and HDTV. ANd the blacks are very, very deep. I really get some nice fades to black which I have yet to see in any digital projector.

4. I put in Bug's life and was shocked at the detail in blacks, colors.. everything. Best picture I have ever seen.

5. HOST is a bit sluggish at times but is reliable.


So far so good. Very pleased with the picture.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #646 of 1962 Old 06-01-2009, 01:16 PM
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Hi Jeff:

I am no expert but you should definitely stay away from any Electronic Keystone adjustment, as a cure it is much worse than the disease.
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post #647 of 1962 Old 06-01-2009, 01:30 PM
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Hi Jeff:

I am no expert but you should definitely stay away from any Electronic Keystone adjustment, as a cure it is much worse than the disease.

I did.. I left the keystoning on my masks without any electronic control.. I can fix it but it'll require a small amount of work.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #648 of 1962 Old 06-01-2009, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

2. You cannot save 'Dynamic Black On or Off' into a Memory.. It is always enabled or disabled depending on where it was last at last viewing session. I tried to save it as ON in one memory and OFF in another but it would not work.

Hi Jeff, I'm curious as to when you wouldn't want to enable DB? From all reports I've seen it works great and seamless, unless I missed something.

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post #649 of 1962 Old 06-01-2009, 05:59 PM
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Hi Jeff, I'm curious as to when you wouldn't want to enable DB? From all reports I've seen it works great and seamless, unless I missed something.

I do enable it. I just noticed you cannot save it to a memory.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #650 of 1962 Old 06-03-2009, 04:29 PM
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I finally got my Lumis and installed it today - woohoo !! Picture looks great so far, without any tweaking yet.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot...ppuser/7419278

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post #651 of 1962 Old 06-03-2009, 04:46 PM
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Congrats Craig. What screen material are you running? Also I would be curious to hearing your opinion coming from 1 chip to 3 chip once you've put some hours on your new projector. Have fun.
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post #652 of 1962 Old 06-03-2009, 05:41 PM
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I'm using the same screens I used with the dVision Alan - Da-Lite 16:9 106" x 59.5" HCCV and a Stewart 2.35:1 118" x 50.25" Firehawk G3.

So far, only watching a few minutes of I Robot and Sin City ( both on Blu Ray ) to get the Lumis set up on the screen, I'd have to say the colors look gorgeous ( as do the blacks ). Sin City never looked better - off the charts!!
Man, is this thing bright - I think it's perfect with the lamp dialed down and the manual iris closed. I'll take a foot lambert reading later this week.
More test viewing tonite !!

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post #653 of 1962 Old 06-03-2009, 05:41 PM
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My Lumis is arriving tomorrow... My understanding is that it has perfect center convergence on all colors and only the very slightest (something rediculously minute fringe like 1/10th of a pixel off at the edges... i.e., one of the essentially perfect performers.... Will be setting it up tomorrow along with the new Oppo blu Ray player.

Would consider getting a professional calibration... the best part is going to be the 1.0 matte Studiotek, in terms of purity. My only concern is that I plan on moving sometime in the next 6-9 months... nonetheless, I would think that once adjusted for a light controlled dark room, It should maintain a similar performance in a similar future room... Question being is whether or not to get it calibrated now...
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post #654 of 1962 Old 06-03-2009, 07:22 PM
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I watched Defiance tonight and got my first 'fade to black' moment.. Pretty cool.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #655 of 1962 Old 06-03-2009, 08:19 PM
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Awesome! (One of the things I really enjoy when watching my CRT blend)

Have you tried to see how long it can hold a fade to black before you can see your screen again?

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post #656 of 1962 Old 06-03-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:


I watched Defiance tonight and got my first 'fade to black' moment.. Pretty cool.

Ya, I think next week is " Meet and Greet The Lumis " week here, with all manner of dark movies I love ( Dark City, Blade Runner, Donnie Darko, 2001 S. O. ) in high def. !!!

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post #657 of 1962 Old 06-04-2009, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
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I'll take a foot lambert reading later this week.
More test viewing tonite !!

Be interested to see what you are getting of that size screen (the smaller height one). And if you see spots later
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post #658 of 1962 Old 06-04-2009, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Ya, I think next week is " Meet and Greet The Lumis " week here, with all manner of dark movies I love ( Dark City, Blade Runner, Donnie Darko, 2001 S. O. ) in high def. !!!

Craig Congrats, sounds like the T1 worked out for you! I can confirm that Sin City looks absolutely jawdropping on the Lumis! Enjoy!
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post #659 of 1962 Old 06-04-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I finally got my Lumis and installed it today - woohoo !! Picture looks great so far, without any tweaking yet.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot...ppuser/7419278

Congratulations Craig.

I hope you have the good health, and frequent opportunity, to enjoy it to the max.

Looking forward to, hopefully, reading a good detailed user report.

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post #660 of 1962 Old 06-04-2009, 09:42 AM
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I know this comparison was made in the early pages of this thread, but I like to ask again now that there are many more owners. How do you all find blacks? Better than RS20? If yes, by how far?

What kind of discount do you all get from the MSRP? Since I am only asking a percentage, I am hoping this wouldn't be considered "price" discussion?
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