Sim2 Lumis Owners Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:31 PM
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Art,

Which model perf do you have right now? Was your smaller screen with your stacked setup also a perf?
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:14 AM
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The Da-lite is a 0.9 gain. It was made that gain to improve the blacks on the Samsung SP-A900B projector which Joe Kane helped design. Considering that many HT screens are under 120 inch D 1.78, some help to improving (lowering) blacks was needed.


Once you get to 120~ and above, a gain screen should be utized with this projector. Da-lite is working on a 1.1 gain screen for it. The .9 screen is very smooth and is capable of showing single on\\off pixels without any bleed. reportedly, there may however be not the greatest screen uniformity in one sample puirchased and tested by others.

With any screen above 1.0 gain, there will ALWAYS be issues. With the perfect projector in the perfect room, the only screen that should be considered is a 1.0 gain.

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Old 06-08-2009, 05:52 AM
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Joe Kane is a video purist (not a bad thing, just an observation). Anything which would compromise the video is out, bad, nada, and unacceptable ... audio be darned. The brain works through audio issues fatigue or no. Suck it up.

Joel Silver is for the total experience. IOW, you're not compromising video for the sake of audio, or compromising audio for the sake of video rather you are creating the best total experience since the two have been shown to be closely interrelated. Having said that, viewing distances and visual accuity are an essential part of getting it all correct.

For example certain woven screens allow way too much light through the screen reducing CR, perfs and weaves which are detectable due to visual accuity are out, weaves which produce shadows are out if it affects CR or is visible, etc. IOW, you want the best possible video to the extent audio is not made "bad" and, conversely, you want the best possible audio to the extent it doesn't destroy the video experience. (An example might be shiny silver drivers behind an otherwise acceptable AT screen.)

Basically, there's the single sub-system viewpoint and the integrated whole view.

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Old 06-08-2009, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

Art,

Which model perf do you have right now? Was your smaller screen with your stacked setup also a perf?

Yes, I had a Stewart microperf before but it was the Videomatte 2.0. I now use the Studeotek 130 x2. The perf visibility is gone at about 8' back for me. The pixels are much much larger than the perfs, shown here ,which I've posted many times.


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Old 06-08-2009, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Yes, I had a Stewart microperf before but it was the Videomatte 2.0. I now use the Studeotek 130 x2. The perf visibility is gone at about 8' back for me. The pixels are much much larger than the perfs, shown here ,which I've posted many times.


Show off!!!

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Old 06-08-2009, 10:35 AM
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Show off!!!

You don't know how many pictures I took before I could get one that was in focus that close.

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Old 06-08-2009, 08:33 PM
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Basically, there's the single sub-system viewpoint and the integrated whole view.

True, but there is also opinion and personal preference to what defines the best overall "whole view".
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:43 PM
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I wanted to revisit the thoughts about unity gain screens reflecting light at 180 degrees vs higher gain screens reflecting at 150 or 130 degrees, etc...

I think this is oversimplified, essentially because you are going to have scatter radiation to some degree. The 1.3 gain material simply has a certain percentage of metallic particles, while the 1.5 gain has a higher percentage of metallic particles. You still get a certain percentage of light that doesn't hit metallic particles and hits a matte portion of the screen: therefore it makes sense that viewing angle is hardly all or nothing... You are still getting some light reflecting 180 degrees in 1.3 and 1.5 gain screens, especially those hitting the matte portion of the screen.

I'm also curious about the shape and orientation of the metal particles: they are very fine, minute particles, but huge compared to a photon of light. There is no way all the particles are uniform. There is also no way the surface of those particles are all flush with the screen surface...
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:02 AM
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True, but there is also opinion and personal preference to what defines the best overall "whole view".

Absolutely. Everybody is allowed to smile (or frown) through their own choices. Joe has a choice and opinion as does Joel. So who's right? You are within the scope of your own room.

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Old 06-09-2009, 07:56 AM
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I like Joes new screen and I am not so hot about what Joel did to the Supernova (which was his crack at the world's best optical FP screen). At this point I feel Joe is using his eyes more and more whilst Joel still appears to rely all in instrumentation.
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Old 06-09-2009, 09:36 AM
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I find it interesting my comment was removed. So Peter is allowed, as usual, to make absurd comments about people that have forgotten more than he knows, but when I call him on it my comment gets removed.

Let's try it this way and see if I can avoid the mods delete button. Peter, other than your "feeling" (translation: you making it up), do you have any facts to support your statement that "Joe is using his eyes more while Joel still appears to rely all on instrumentation"?
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

I find it interesting my comment was removed. So Peter is allowed, as usual, to make absurd comments about experts in the field that have forgotten more than he knows, but when I call him on it my comment gets removed.

Let's try it this way and see if I can avoid the mods delete button. Peter, other than your "feeling" (translation: you making it up), do you have any facts to support your statement that "Joe is using his eyes more while Joel still appears to rely all on instrumentation"?

Joe, Joel and I go back to day one of Joe Kane at CEDIA, to Joel's introduction to high end video, he worked in another Industry in 1990, and to day one class one of the ISF. We are friends, and I give them much credit for the positive way the industry standards have grown.

My mission has been wholly other. As they have succeded at their goals I too have had moments of pinching myself.

I view them as equals not gods, I have consistently shared my admiration points and strongest criticisms to both .

Mass validation is not something I seek, I pursue the absolute best in Image quality, and I believe I can hold my own.

Thay been said I spent a small fortune on a screen that Joel designed. While on a blue moon the images are good, normally they boder on atrocious. I also have issues on what constitutes a calibrated image.

THERE IS NOTHING NOT TO LIKE WITH JOE'S NEW SCREEN, I find the colros delectable. The VISUAL results are ample evidence of some level of human intervention in the development process. A screen should never be brighter off axis than on axis.
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Joe, Joel and I go back to day one of Joe Kane at CEDIA, to Joel's introduction to high end video, he worked in another Industry in 1990, and to day one class one of the ISF.

I view them as equals not gods, I have consistently shared my admiration points and strongest criticisms to both.

Validation from the masses is not something I seek, I pusue the absolute best in Image quality, and I believe I can hold my own.

Thay been said I spent A small fortune on a screen that Joel designed. While on a blue moon the images are good, normally they boder on atrocious.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG NOT TO LIKE WITH JOE'S NEW SCREEN, I find the colrs delectable.

In other words, you made it up.
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:46 AM
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No, I deducted it. Because i can.

And also I believe that Joe's purism is a good thing.

There is very little value added by Joel on his Supernova while Joe's screen is a trully great screen.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:07 PM
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No, I deducted it. Because i can.

And also I believe that Joe's purism is a good thing.

There is very little value added by Joel on his Supernova while Joe's screen is a trully great screen.

The question was not whether the screen is or is not good which the viewer themselves can decide, not whether you are a legend in your own mind and an equal of Joe Kane and Joel Silver, not whether you "seek mass validation" (thou doth protest far too much), it was simply what you base your statement on that "Joe is using his eyes more and more whilst Joel still appears to rely all on instrumentation".

And I deduct that as usual, you're just stating misinformation.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:14 PM
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Joe, Joel and I go back to day one of Joe Kane at CEDIA

Oh, heaven forbid. We were in the same room together.

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Old 06-09-2009, 12:33 PM
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Oh, heaven forbid. We were in the same room together.



Lordy Lord.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:39 PM
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No Q,

You are just jealous that every thay I wake up and have a chance to improve the best picture anywhere on LEVEL 2(DCI) HT, underline the very best that it can be. Not said by me, but by top experts and Directors. That being said I am dying to try my hand at level 1: Evans & Sutherland's.

When it comes to PQ, a deduction from me carries way more thruth than the combined effect of all of your disgruntled postings.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:42 PM
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A screen should never be brighter off axis than on axis.

What screen is brighter off axis than on axis?

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Old 06-09-2009, 12:59 PM
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Even with a perfect lambertian surface, what you people call a gain of 1, the screen brightness will falloff as the cosine to the fourth,so at 20 degrees your down by 20 percent which of course you will not notice.

on the other hand a high gain reflective screen should give you more drop off where a retroreflective screen will give you less if you are seated at the center of the screen
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:38 PM
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Oh, heaven forbid. We were in the same room together.

I'd not worry too much, as long as you were wearing hip boots and took a good bath afterward the effects were probably only temporary.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:45 PM
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Anybody else have HOST firmware lockup issues besides me? I'm looking forward to a firmware update - hopefully soon.

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Old 06-09-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

No Q,

You are just jealous that every thay I wake up and have a chance to improve the best picture anywhere on LEVEL 2(DCI) HT, underline the very best that it can be. Not said by me, but by top experts and Directors. That being said I am dying to try my hand at level 1: Evans & Sutherland's.

When it comes to PQ, a deduction from me carries way more thruth than the combined effect of all of your disgruntled postings.


some of your best work here peter...

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Old 06-09-2009, 03:34 PM
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Anybody else have HOST firmware lockup issues besides me? I'm looking forward to a firmware update - hopefully soon.

I did once... And a pink screen once, too. It is slow and somewhat encumbered in terms of navigation. Most of the time it works as advertised.

I realized that each input resolution has its own memory assignment.. WHen I load a BD, the menus / previews are 1080P60.. then starting the movie, it is 1080P24. I was wondering why my anamorphic lens kept moving in when powering on my theater. As it moved back when the movie started (1080P24). Obviously, I left the 1080P60 settings with the lens on in that memory..

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Old 06-09-2009, 05:31 PM
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I've had some sluggish responses to changes in aspect ratio and recalling memories, but no lockups to the point of unresponsiveness. As mentioned before, the HOST doesn't have the best menu hierarchy/setup in the world, but it seems to get the job done.

BTW, have any of you guys watched A Bug's Life on your Lumis? Jeff?-- I thought I remember you mentioning watching it. I was screening this recently and occasionally noticed a "shimmer" to the blue sky with pans and with character/object movement over the sky. It seemed to go away with DB off. Anybody else see anything similar? I'm going to screen some more Pixar films to see if this occurs with any other title.
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:42 PM
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You know, I didn't notice it but it could be an issue that I overlooked.. For the most part, I was in awe of the presentation. I will look at it again - do you have a time stamp for the area?

I'll keep an keep out for more aberrations.

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Old 06-09-2009, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlang46 View Post

Even with a perfect lambertian surface, what you people call a gain of 1, the screen brightness will falloff as the cosine to the fourth,so at 20 degrees your down by 20 percent which of course you will not notice.

on the other hand a high gain reflective screen should give you more drop off where a retroreflective screen will give you less if you are seated at the center of the screen

And ?

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Old 06-09-2009, 05:51 PM
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The host is extremely slow. It is slower than the C3X1080 for some reason which was slow as well. Anytime you go to make an adjustment, such as with horizontal or vertical sizing, it seems to 'stick' even though you keep trying to increase the number... Even when switching between the settings: normal, anamorphic, user 1, user 2, user 3, it seems to 'stick' between each click of the button, instead of waiting until you stop pressing the button and actually get to the setting you want to use. Seems like there is a really slow processor handling these commands... very annoying.
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:56 PM
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You know, I didn't notice it but it could be an issue that I overlooked.. For the most part, I was in awe of the presentation. I will look at it again - do you have a time stamp for the area?

I'll keep an keep out for more aberrations.

The scenes I remember were:

-In the PIXAR opening sequence with Luxo Jr hopping in to replace the "I" in pixar, I saw a bit of shimmering in the white area above the PIXAR logo. This shimmering looks like a horizontal white streak (not quite a straight line) moving vertically-- I can't remember up or down.

-In the opening scene when the camera is panning in on the tree on the "island" against the blue sky. I saw some shimmering in the blue sky on either side of the tree during the zoom-in.

-In the scene near the end where Heimlich turns into a butterfly and is being lifted into the sky by the other circus bugs, I saw similar shimmering in the surrounding sky.

There were a couple other instances of this that I saw in the blue sky during the remainder of the movie.

These artifacts went away when I turned DB off.

Other than this, I agree with you that the picture was just silly good-- mesmerizing depth, colors, and detail.

Again, I'm going to check the intro sequence on another PIXAR title to see if I see it there.
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:56 PM
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The host is extremely slow. It is slower than the C3X1080 for some reason which was slow as well. Anytime you go to make an adjustment, such as with horizontal or vertical sizing, it seems to 'stick' even though you keep trying to increase the number... Even when switching between the settings: normal, anamorphic, user 1, user 2, user 3, it seems to 'stick' between each click of the button, instead of waiting until you stop pressing the button and actually get to the setting you want to use. Seems like there is a really slow processor handling these commands... very annoying.

Yup-- I've had the exact same experience with the AR changes.
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