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post #1471 of 2039 Old 03-07-2010, 06:54 PM
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Loaded latest firmware. Noticed green push with component inputs (Directv HD DVR). Came on very green then suddenly went off as I changed back and forth between inputs. Not sure if it's fully gone. Reds seemed a bit limp, too. Will check tomorrow. Didn't check HDMI inputs for trouble. Will recheck tonight.

Paged through threw Lumis manual and when I looked at Dynamic Iris explanation, I saw they note that it 'decreases colors'. Well certainly it'll darken things. I, also saw that I can change red (or whatever color) in the USER color management settings by tweaking the y axis. When the projector was calibrated, the initial R/G/B calibrations were done and DVD / BD looks great. HD DVR was difficult to calibrate as their are no internal color setup conterols, etc but has always looked pretty good.

Two things I am going to try to tweak my HD DVR (component input) picture:

1. Turn off Dynamic Iris
2. Set up a User Color Settings and push it a bit red.

Also, can you save Dynamic Iris settings into memory? I tried it with lamp wattage (e.g. 250W for 16:9, 270W for 2.35) but you cannot save lamp wattages into any memory. Changing them for 16:9 and 2.35 has to with individual commands within a remote macro as the Lumis keeps lamp wattages at the last selected.

How are folks here setting up their cable / satellite colors, etc?

Thanks!

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1472 of 2039 Old 03-08-2010, 08:27 AM
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Hi All,

Being a few thousand miles off the beaten path of professional calibrators, I have to be self reliant when it comes to calibrating my Lumis. So off I went and bought a CalMAN with EyeOne Pro, learned how to use it and did some preliminary measurements. I would like to run these measurements by you to benefit from your feedback.

I set dynamic black ON with iris in mid position (50), chose D65 and EN5 gamma correction setting. The room is light controlled and the screen is 1.0 gain 16:9 180" diagonal (13' wide). The light meter read 40 hours. Both brightness and contrast were set as per instruction resulting in brightness at 47 and contrast at 60 settings.

First I was curious in how well the Lumis fared with such a large screen, so on I put 100%W window and measured off the screen at different lamp power settings (remember, at mid iris setting):

Lamp Power ftL reading Area x ftL
----------- ---------- ---------
230 W 11.2 1075
240 W 11.8 1135
250 W 12.6 1210
260 W 13.3 1280
270 W 14.1 1355
280 W 14.9 1430

From then on, all measurements were taken at 260W. Attached are snapshots of the measurement screens. The test patterns used were from AVCHD Blu-Ray burned on a DVD.

Am I doing something wrong or is my Lumis in desperate need for calibration? For some reason, the meter is oblivious to the 75% Red (Delta E = 117!!!). It did measure the red OK however at the EN4 setting (with delta E = 4.7, other colors readings were unchanged).

By the way, should I have switched off the dynamic black before taking measurements?
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post #1473 of 2039 Old 03-08-2010, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnwalters View Post

The lamp is: osram p-vip 250/1.0 p22

Just called BulbtoGo again and he now says they no longer sell the 1.0 bulb and that "they aren't made anymore" and that the 1.3 bulb is the newer version of it. So I guess I'm stuck with ordering a $750 bulb! Now if that one comes with a 1.3 bulb, then I'm set for the future But I doubt it will. If anyone knows a place that sells the 1.0 bulb please let me know, otherwise looks like I'll be giving Jason a call.

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post #1474 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrakmf View Post

By the way, should I have switched off the dynamic black before taking measurements?

To answer my own question; yes, dynamic black should be turned off for measurements and calibration. The measurements posted above were retaken with the same parameters except dynamic black is set to OFF. EN5 Results now are smoother, though still indicate my Lumis could benefit from calibration.
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post #1475 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 10:05 AM
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Really? Dynamic black off before calibration? So setting up low pluge patterns (brightness / contrast settings) with it off?

Where do you guys keep the iris setting fro Blu Ray? 0? 50? 100?

Thanks.

Jeff

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1476 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnwalters View Post

Just called BulbtoGo again and he now says they no longer sell the 1.0 bulb and that "they aren't made anymore" and that the 1.3 bulb is the newer version of it. So I guess I'm stuck with ordering a $750 bulb! Now if that one comes with a 1.3 bulb, then I'm set for the future But I doubt it will. If anyone knows a place that sells the 1.0 bulb please let me know, otherwise looks like I'll be giving Jason a call.

I had another member here check the bulb in his C3X1080 and it's a p-vip 250/1.3 p22!

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post #1477 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 12:46 PM
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Just got a thorough a calibration by Jeff Meier (Accucal and UMR on the forum) and have to say things are night and day. Seriously incredible results. Not a lot of time to write right now but everything just is at a different level. Highest recommendations for Jeff's work and would state that it's mandatory if you have one of these units. Jeff's worked on a bunch of Lumis units and it shows. Just stunning. BTW, the audio cal is worthwhile as Jeff found some flaws that were IMO shocking. I'd say also mandatory but YMMV. Everything is in a new ballpark now. Cannot wait for the weekend to take system through it's paces.
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post #1478 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrakmf View Post

EN5 Results now are smoother, though still indicate my Lumis could benefit from calibration.

Yes... yes it could.

Your color gamut is well beyond the standard and the Gamma curve is way to shallow. You might try plugging in something like 2.5 or 2.6 into the custom Gamma settings. That will probably get you close to 2.4 in measured Gamma.


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post #1479 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owl1 View Post

Just got a thorough a calibration by Jeff Meier (Accucal and UMR on the forum) and have to say things are night and day. Seriously incredible results. Not a lot of time to write right now but everything just is at a different level. Highest recommendations for Jeff's work and would state that it's mandatory if you have one of these units. Jeff's worked on a bunch of Lumis units and it shows. Just stunning. BTW, the audio cal is worthwhile as Jeff found some flaws that were IMO shocking. I'd say also mandatory but YMMV. Everything is in a new ballpark now. Cannot wait for the weekend to take system through it's paces.

What did you end up at for brightness (lumens)?
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post #1480 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 01:49 PM
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He had more than enough light. It was 16 fL with iris closed at minimum lamp.
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post #1481 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 01:52 PM
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Thanks Jeff. I'm after lumens, do you know the screen gain and size so I can back into it? I like more than 16.
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post #1482 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnwalters View Post

I had another member here check the bulb in his C3X1080 and it's a p-vip 250/1.3 p22!

I'd be very tempted to try the 1.3 bulb. 1.3 refers to the electrode gap, so this version has a wider gap to be fired. If your pj will fire the bulb up, I think it will work fine as all the other characteristics are the same.

Bob
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post #1483 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post

I'd be very tempted to try the 1.3 bulb. 1.3 refers to the electrode gap, so this version has a wider gap to be fired. If your pj will fire the bulb up, I think it will work fine as all the other characteristics are the same.

Bob

Thanks Bob, yeah I already ordered a 1.3 bulb from the place you mentioned. Was only $208 shipped, so I'm very hopeful that it will work, cause that would be great.

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post #1484 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

Thanks Jeff. I'm after lumens, do you know the screen gain and size so I can back into it? I like more than 16.

Hey Scott

It's 10.5 wide 2.37 1.3 gain Studiotek. Bulb has 1400 hours on it

I thought I liked more than 16 too until Jeff did his thing. I believe I had 20 when he walked in the door. Not missing a thing- plenty of pop. Skintones are crazy dead on, blacks are inky, starfield on Star Wars3 at the beginning was dark with the lighter ships very very bright. Colors are nicely rich. Sweet...
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post #1485 of 2039 Old 03-09-2010, 05:47 PM
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That might equate to 10 ft lamberts post-cal on my 14' wide scope!!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1486 of 2039 Old 03-10-2010, 05:32 AM
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Jeff

Too bright not good for contrast. I'm not a contrast junkie but getting 30k plus in room is spectacular. Not missing the lumens. If I do, I can always crank the bulb. It's set on minimum right now.
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post #1487 of 2039 Old 03-10-2010, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post

Yes... yes it could.

Your color gamut is well beyond the standard and the Gamma curve is way to shallow. You might try plugging in something like 2.5 or 2.6 into the custom Gamma settings. That will probably get you close to 2.4 in measured Gamma.


Ken Whitcomb

Thanks Ken for the pointer. I'll try that this weekend. I did try 2.2 earlier and it only lifted the Gamma curve at the upper end of the IRE scale. Will try the 2.5 or 2.6 setting and observe.
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post #1488 of 2039 Old 03-10-2010, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owl1 View Post

Just got a thorough a calibration by Jeff Meier (Accucal and UMR on the forum) and have to say things are night and day.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the front projection (Post#1) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.
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post #1489 of 2039 Old 03-10-2010, 12:43 PM
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Thinking about upgrading from Qualia to Lumis, but concerned about the many reports regarding reliability and other issues. Any thoughts? Also, not a lot of reports on the Lumis without the Host. If I am using a Integra processor for the HDMI switching, any reason I should consider the host version? Thanks in advance for any comments. By the way, dedicated all black (GOM) theater with 13'8" wide 1.78 SMX screen.
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post #1490 of 2039 Old 03-10-2010, 01:35 PM
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Well, since changing the On Screen Display time out setting from 10 seconds to 200 seconds, I haven't had any reliability issues !

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post #1491 of 2039 Old 03-10-2010, 01:56 PM
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No reliability issues here. Come check it out Jeff. (and I have my OSD at 60 seconds and latest firmware).

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1492 of 2039 Old 03-10-2010, 05:59 PM
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Flipping between IRIS '0' and IRIS '100', I don't see any darkening / lightening of the picture. I have Dynamic Black 'ON'. What is that about?

With my old Qualia, hitting iris 1 or iris 2 would noticeably dim the picture.

With my lumis, only turning dynamic black on and off darkens (changes) the picture. Changing the variable iris fro 0 - 100 seems to di nothing!

What's up (and do you really set black levels with dynamic black off)?

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post #1493 of 2039 Old 03-11-2010, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Flipping between IRIS '0' and IRIS '100', I don't see any darkening / lightening of the picture. I have Dynamic Black 'ON'. What is that about?

With my old Qualia, hitting iris 1 or iris 2 would noticeably dim the picture.

With my lumis, only turning dynamic black on and off darkens (changes) the picture. Changing the variable iris fro 0 - 100 seems to di nothing!)

What's up?

Jeff,

Dynamic Black is Texas Instruments-speak for automatic iris, so manual iris adjustments would be disabled when DB is engaged.

Quote:


(and do you really set black levels with dynamic black off)?

Since black level is an electronic adjustment, it shouldn't matter whether DB is on or off. However, it will be easier to see just-above/below black with the iris open.


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post #1494 of 2039 Old 03-11-2010, 07:25 AM
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Managed some time to play with my setup this afternoon and here are the results. Dynamic black off, iris full on, maximum light output, Gamma set to 2.5 which gave a measured average of 2.1. First graph is before calibration and second is after.

Most of the calibration consisted of balancing the primary colors through the Lumis OSD. Had to move the pointer (CMS-->HDTV-->User-->gamut chart) 8 clicks to the left and two clicks up to balance the colors and get the CalMAN bullseye at both 30IRE and 80IRE.

Still, the luminance tracking was not optimum. To get best tracking I had to push Gamma correction to maximum (3.0) which gave a measured average of 2.5. See third graph.

I would appreciate it if you could point to any rookie mistakes I might have made.
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post #1495 of 2039 Old 03-11-2010, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owl1 View Post

Hey Scott

It's 10.5 wide 2.37 1.3 gain Studiotek. Bulb has 1400 hours on it

I thought I liked more than 16 too until Jeff did his thing. I believe I had 20 when he walked in the door. Not missing a thing- plenty of pop. Skintones are crazy dead on, blacks are inky, starfield on Star Wars3 at the beginning was dark with the lighter ships very very bright. Colors are nicely rich. Sweet...

Thanks. But that works out to only ~572 Lumens
(ftL/gain)*ft2=lumens
(16/1.3)*46.51
(577 via Greg Roger's calculator (http://www.accupel.com/Screen%20Setu...lator%20PC.zip) But he used 2.35 where I used 2.37 thus the difference.

Sure seems low for what this unit is supposed to do. Even at 1400 hrs, low bulb and closed iris. On Jeff's screen that would yield less than 9ftL
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post #1496 of 2039 Old 03-11-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

With my lumis, only turning dynamic black on and off darkens (changes) the picture. Changing the variable iris fro 0 - 100 seems to di nothing!

The manual iris has a very limited range of around 10%. Its actually more of a "trim" than a fully manual iris. It is recommended that the unit be operated with the iris fully open unless you need to trim the brightness or maximize CR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D6500Ken View Post

Dynamic Black is Texas Instruments-speak for automatic iris, so manual iris adjustments would be disabled when DB is engaged.

The manual iris is in addition to the DI, it is not disabled with DB in operation. Jeff is simply experiencing the limited control range of the manual iris compared with his previous units.

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post #1497 of 2039 Old 03-11-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:


The manual iris has a very limited range of around 10%. Its actually more of a "trim" than a fully manual iris. It is recommended that the unit be operated with the iris fully open unless you need to trim the brightness or maximize CR.

It helps to tame brightness on smaller screens like mine. With a light meter, you can see that it does have an effect.

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post #1498 of 2039 Old 03-11-2010, 10:09 AM
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Thanks guys. To be sure, is IRIS '0' full open or close?

Thanks!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1499 of 2039 Old 03-11-2010, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Thanks guys. To be sure, is IRIS '0' full open or close?

Thanks!

Full open = 0

Ok, I suck... Full Open = 100
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post #1500 of 2039 Old 03-11-2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

Full open = 0

All those LMS-Ultra 5400 magnets are beginning to scramble your brain . From the Lumis manual:

At value 100 the Variable Iris is fully Open, at value "0
it is fully Closed.
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