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post #1 of 2014 Old 02-05-2009, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, since I am the first to get my projector (see attachment for proof) I am starting this thread.

Just to be clear, I don't have the equipment or expertise of others, so I will just be giving my personal observations. I also need to spend some time with the projector, and time is very limited right now, so someone else will probably beat me to the critical observations.

Anyway, It is in the house, and I am comparing it directly to my RS20.

Phil
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post #2 of 2014 Old 02-05-2009, 04:20 PM
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I´m looking forward to see your results

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post #3 of 2014 Old 02-05-2009, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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My initial impressions are very good. Blacks are on par with RS20, while bright scenes have tremendous depth and clarity. Very bright as is expected.

Downsides, typical cumbersome Sim2 Remote, menu's and Host implementation. Fan noise quite a bit more than I had expected, must have to do with the new cooling upgrades.

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post #4 of 2014 Old 02-05-2009, 07:01 PM
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post #5 of 2014 Old 02-05-2009, 07:30 PM
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My install is delayed as T3 units are not shipping yet.
Should be within next two weeks.
I will post once it is installed.
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post #6 of 2014 Old 02-05-2009, 08:16 PM
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Free

Congratulations on the Lumis install!

Assume you have the T2? Surprising on the fan noise issue. Do you think it's as loud as the C3X 1080 or louder? Have you tried bulb at min and still have high output from the fan? Do you have an spl meter to measure the fan's spl output?

What hangups have you encountered with the HOST implementation?

Noticing your hushbox, what is it and are you having fireproof rated insulation inside the box?
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post #7 of 2014 Old 02-05-2009, 10:27 PM
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Quote:


My initial impressions are very good. Blacks are on par with RS20, while bright scenes have tremendous depth and clarity. Very bright as is expected.

Downsides, typical cumbersome Sim2 Remote, menu's and Host implementation. Fan noise quite a bit more than I had expected, must have to do with the new cooling upgrades.

Your comments on the picture quality mirror what I saw at CES. As for the fan noise, mine goes in a projector closet anyway.

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post #8 of 2014 Old 02-05-2009, 10:54 PM
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Yes, spl reading from a measured distance would be fantastic. Unfortunately will be affected by the box, even with the front open.
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post #9 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

My initial impressions are very good. Blacks are on par with RS20, while bright scenes have tremendous depth and clarity. Very bright as is expected.
.

So how do the black levels compare if you project a black field? How big is your screen? Is the Lumis not too bright or the RS20 too dark for your screen?
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post #10 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 02:01 AM
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I too would be interested in your thoughts comparing the Lumis black levels and low APL performance to your RS20. Wolfgang's comparison favoured the Lumis in this regard, noting the black bars on cinemascope movies also... do you concur?

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post #11 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gino AUS View Post

I too would be interested in your thoughts comparing the Lumis black levels and low APL performance to your RS20. Wolfgang's comparison favoured the Lumis in this regard, noting the black bars on cinemascope movies also... do you concur?


My experience with the two side by side.
On my Lumis I could not see any bars top/bottom but I could with the RS20. I even threw an image from the Lumis on the High Power screen expecting it to increase black level but black remained unchanged.
Phil has a production model so I do not know if his performs different then mine. Looking forward to his comments.
Both the RS20 and lumis are equal when full field black is sent to each machine side by side but where the Lumis wins is if there is anything in the image even 1 star the lamp modulation and iris go to work and clamp black further.










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post #12 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Guy's I need to spend some time getting the projector dialed in before making any definitive comments. I spent several days calibrating my RS20 before I got a satisfying image, so to be fair to the Lumis I have to do the same.

Quick impression on the fan noise, is that it is louder than the 1080, and quite a bit louder than the RS20, even when running on low bulb. I will take some SPL measurements, the sides of my box are open, so it won't affect it too much. What distance do you want the readings from??

Phil
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post #13 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Guy's I need to spend some time getting the projector dialed in before making any definitive comments. I spent several days calibrating my RS20 before I got a satisfying image, so to be fair to the Lumis I have to do the same.

Quick impression on the fan noise, is that it is louder than the 1080, and quite a bit louder than the RS20, even when running on low bulb. I will take some SPL measurements, the sides of my box are open, so it won't affect it too much. What distance do you want the readings from??

Thanks Phil

If you could do almost directly beneath and maybe a couple of feet forward for the spl meter would be much appreciated. For me it may mean switching to a T3 to get it further back from the rear row of seating. With T2 it's basically almost overhead on the back row seats. Would you find this intrusive, especially sans hushbox on quiet scenes?
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post #14 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 06:32 AM
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Perhaps this is a stupid question, but why does everyone seem to be comparing the Lumis to the RS20? Isn't the Lumis something like 4x or 5x the cost of the RS20? Color me confused...

Stupid. I'm totally stupid.
But, "they" say ignorance is bliss.
I just wish I knew what "they" were talking about.
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post #15 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegwyn11 View Post

Perhaps this is a stupid question, but why does everyone seem to be comparing the Lumis to the RS20? Isn't the Lumis something like 4x or 5x the cost of the RS20? Color me confused...

The RS series has set the bench and is considered reference for black level performance from digital projectors. Cost has nothing to do with it if it did we could have been looking at crt black from digital years ago.




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post #16 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegwyn11 View Post

Perhaps this is a stupid question, but why does everyone seem to be comparing the Lumis to the RS20? Isn't the Lumis something like 4x or 5x the cost of the RS20? Color me confused...

No one is viewing them as competitive in any way at all.

Its purely an assessment of black level performance, and nothing else.

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post #17 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 06:56 AM
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I see...it makes much more sense now. So the fact that the Lumis seems to be at least equivalent, if not outperforming the RS20 on black levels is viewed as pretty significant, especially considering that the Lumis is way brighter. Sorry for the dumb question!

Stupid. I'm totally stupid.
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I just wish I knew what "they" were talking about.
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post #18 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 07:30 AM
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free

congratulations on the lumis install.

when you do the compare between the 2 units please note
that your lumis is at low lamp mode i guess more than double as bright as the rs20.
depends on how bright your room is this will increase the bars a lot.

as you get this unit that soon i guess its one of the few units that are
sice some time in us but it will have the upgrade inside for sure.

it will be very interesting to hear form you about cr. and light out.

a nd filter will decrease the ansi cr. at least by 25% if not more.

about decrease of ansi cr. when use a nd filter and a isco3 lens i have new infos about it and that are very interesting.
but thats a other thread in the future.
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post #19 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I am normalizing FL between the two projectors, so I can make apples to apples observations.

A note on the fan noise: I only have a sound meter that goes down to 50db, so I have to get pretty close to the projector to get a reading. 3" away from the left or right side, I start getting a reading, so that would be 50db on low. On high bulb, I start to get a reading at about 5" away, and the pitch of the fans goes up in frequency.

Phil
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post #20 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I am normalizing FL between the two projectors, so I can make apples to apples observations.

A note on the fan noise: I only have a sound meter that goes down to 50db, so I have to get pretty close to the projector to get a reading. 3" away from the left or right side, I start getting a reading, so that would be 50db on low. On high bulb, I start to get a reading at about 5" away, and the pitch of the fans goes up in frequency.

C weighting?
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post #21 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:


No one is viewing them as competitive in any way at all.

Its purely an assessment of black level performance, and nothing else.

I disagree..once you have then both together (Like Free) you can compare every aspect of the projector (like fan noise). Overall picture quality preferences have leaned towards the Lumis, but we now have another opinion. The more the merrier!

And when worded in such a fashion you make it seem like it a comparison of a Ferrari to a Kia.
JC
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post #22 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Both the RS20 and lumis are equal when full field black is sent to each machine side by side but where the Lumis wins is if there is anything in the image even 1 star the lamp modulation and iris go to work and clamp black further.
.

Alan, the black of a full black field on the Lumis must surely be the case where the lamp is dimmed the most and the iris closed the most since nothing else than black matters in this case. When stars enter the picture it makes no sense to dim further or close the Iris further. The stars make the black look blacker by themselves and further dimming/closing reduces star brightness.
If full black fields have the same luminosity on both projectors it follows that the On-Off of the Lumis is in the 60000-150000:1 range (Lumis white is 3 times brighter than RS20, and a RS20 measures easily between 20000:1 and 50000:1). It also means for black a whopping factor of 18 to 30 is used if native On-Off is 5000:1 as reported. Is all of this the case?
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post #23 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhahn View Post

C weighting?

No, A weighting.


My initial measurements of lumen output after calibrating are considerably lower than others have posted, so I may have something wrong with my projector. I will probably have to defer my observations until I figure out what is going on.

Phil
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post #24 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeycalda View Post

I disagree..once you have then both together (Like Free) you can compare every aspect of the projector (like fan noise). Overall picture quality preferences have leaned towards the Lumis, but we now have another opinion. The more the merrier!

JC

Joey, Myself, Alan and Wolfgang all had the 2 units together, and compared them.

No one was seriously comparing them, other than to test the black level. My statement, therefore, stands as correct at the time it was made.

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post #25 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeycalda View Post

I disagree..once you have then both together (Like Free) you can compare every aspect of the projector (like fan noise). Overall picture quality preferences have leaned towards the Lumis, but we now have another opinion. The more the merrier!

JC

Just for the record, no where have I stated that I prefer the picture quality of the RS20 over the Lumis, so I don't know who you are referring to in your post.

Phil
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post #26 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 12:00 PM
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Phil, You said the PJ is "very bright, as expected", but that your lumen number is lower than ours was. Where are you on the throw? If you are near min zoom, you number will be less than max.

Mine ranged from 1500-2000 depending on lamp and manual iris, but that was only measured at max zoom. Those are with the ISCOIII out. With ISCOIII in, the light loss is 2%.

Alan's numbers included the min zoom, so he ranged from 1050 (min lamp, min zoom, iris closed) all they way to 2240 at max zoom and max lamp. His min zoom/max lamp was 1400.

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post #27 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 12:27 PM
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I have mine and it is being hung today. I love the image so far. It works amazing in a poorly light controlled room on a firehawk. Mine is with a T2 lens.

Fallout 3 on a Lumis @ 10'6" wide screen is a revelation. Given that I both game and am a movie nut, I have to go CIW.
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post #28 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 12:54 PM
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Quote:


Just for the record, no where have I stated that I prefer the picture quality of the RS20 over the Lumis, so I don't know who you are referring to in your post.

I can see now that my wording leans that way , but it was intended to; a. Give more credibility to the Lumis, or b. Give a nod to the RS20. I appeciate all the comparisons since there are a lot of factors when considering a high end purchase.
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post #29 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 02:19 PM
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Christy

Congratulations bud, great to hear that these are rolling out now!

Question for Christy and/or Phil

Can you report please on throw distance/ratio/screen size as well as the lumens if you have a good light meter, plz.

TIA
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post #30 of 2014 Old 02-06-2009, 02:41 PM
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With the video processing taken out of the projector, how could the new Lumis fan noise be louder than the C3X?
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