Titan 1080P 3D Dual Ultra Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 712 Old 08-07-2010, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Chris:

Nice, what are you using to switch 3D sources?

The projector. To play "Frame Packed" blu-ray you have to use the high-bandwidth Input 8. The Directv receiver is connected to the standard Input 3. It is connected thru my a/v receiver along with all my other sources.

Input 3 will handle all the standard 3D formats - side by side, top and bottom, etc. Input 8 is used for "Frame Packed" because of it being a full 1080P to each eye.

The projector reads the "Frame Packed" signal at 1920 x 2205 @ 24hz. The guys at DP said that the 2205 is normal. Its not the 2160 you would expect to see because there are additional lines of resolution separating the 2 frames.
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post #452 of 712 Old 08-07-2010, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Chris How would you rate the direc TV 3d?

Some of the Directv content is really good and some of it is terrible. I would say its a good 50/50 for good and bad.

But some of the stuff looks fantastic. The PPV channel has an IMAX - Under The Sea 3D. It really is fantastic. I have alot of the world cup recorded and alot of it looks really good. But the 24hr 3D preview channel has alot of junk stuff on it that can be really hard to watch.
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post #453 of 712 Old 08-08-2010, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

The projector. To play "Frame Packed" blu-ray you have to use the high-bandwidth Input 8. The Directv receiver is connected to the standard Input 3. It is connected thru my a/v receiver along with all my other sources.

Input 3 will handle all the standard 3D formats - side by side, top and bottom, etc. Input 8 is used for "Frame Packed" because of it being a full 1080P to each eye.

The projector reads the "Frame Packed" signal at 1920 x 2205 @ 24hz. The guys at DP said that the 2205 is normal. Its not the 2160 you would expect to see because there are additional lines of resolution separating the 2 frames.

Sorry if I missed this earlier, but did you send your Titan in for the upgrades or did they come out? Did you get the quieter fans as part of the upgrade?
Thanks
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post #454 of 712 Old 08-08-2010, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ddingle View Post

Sorry if I missed this earlier, but did you send your Titan in for the upgrades or did they come out? Did you get the quieter fans as part of the upgrade?
Thanks

I took my Titan to DP in Atlanta. I didnt want to ship it being that I am only 5 hours from there. I dropped the projector off at 10:00am that morning and they were finished with it by 4:00pm. When I got my projector the first of April, it already had the new fans. The only upgrade they had to do to mine was to add the new 3D formats.


Did you get your de-focusing issue resolved. Like I said before, my last Titan Ref was doing that and it turned out to be a heat issue. My new Titan Ref 3D also started doing that. I got some dryer duct and attached it to the exhaust scoop on the projector and the other end to a cooling fan that exhaust the hot air into the hallway on the other side of the projector room. Havnt has another problem since.
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post #455 of 712 Old 08-10-2010, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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3D upgrade scheduled for tommorow morning, now if the CE4 glasses would only ship!!!
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post #456 of 712 Old 08-10-2010, 10:33 PM
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Sorry for the pun, but cool evidently has solved his cooling problem. I think more consideration must be given to providing cooling when utilizing projectors of this size and high lumens, high heat

Smetimes I think problems with these projectors arise from not adequately providi for cool air intake an getting the exhaust heat away from the projector and away from heating up the environmental space around the projector. Paying with these big guys is definitely not plug and play and llots of thought and what could be a difficult and nvenient execution must be given to installing such a beast properly.

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post #457 of 712 Old 08-11-2010, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I have to tell you DPI turned out to be a top notch, first class, projector company.

Today they sent a technician to my home to upgrade my DPI to all the consumer 3D formats plus Triple Flash 24P 3D processing all free of charge.

I was happy with the 2D format of this projector and now the 3D is a great bonus.
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post #458 of 712 Old 08-11-2010, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

I took my Titan to DP in Atlanta. I didnt want to ship it being that I am only 5 hours from there. I dropped the projector off at 10:00am that morning and they were finished with it by 4:00pm. When I got my projector the first of April, it already had the new fans. The only upgrade they had to do to mine was to add the new 3D formats.


Did you get your de-focusing issue resolved. Like I said before, my last Titan Ref was doing that and it turned out to be a heat issue. My new Titan Ref 3D also started doing that. I got some dryer duct and attached it to the exhaust scoop on the projector and the other end to a cooling fan that exhaust the hot air into the hallway on the other side of the projector room. Havnt has another problem since.

We now have the AMX system turning on the HVAC fan anytime the projector is on. The projector is venting directly into a return,so with the HVAC fan running it should stay cool. I have not noticed any focus drifting since. Thanks again for the tip!
Currently we can hear the projector in the theater. Not terrible,but it shouldn't be noticed at all. I am hoping the fans eliminate the problem'
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post #459 of 712 Old 08-11-2010, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

I have to tell you DPI turned out to be a top notch, first class, projector company.

Today they sent a technician to my home to upgrade my DPI to all the consumer 3D formats plus Triple Flash 24P 3D processing all free of charge.

I was happy with the 2D format of this projector and now the 3D is a great bonus.

I agree! They are fantastic. The last 4 projectors I have bought were DPI and have not regretted any of them.

I think it speaks to how "forward looking" the company is when they introduce new products. The formats we are enjoying now, were not even available when DPI released the Titan 3D almost 2 years ago.

I am done buying new projectors for a while. At least I hope I am. Sometimes I wish new things didn't come out so soon!
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post #460 of 712 Old 08-11-2010, 05:09 PM
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Lon,

Do you have pics of your theater room or a thread on it? I may have missed it but what size is your 16:9 and scope screens? What is your throw distance? Are you running both lamps and at what percentage?

I really hope your CE4 glasses ship. I really am not overly happy with my X101s. They really look and feel like they are not manufactured to a high standard. I guess they are made in bulk for Pro Cinema and they dont have the finishing touch you expect for a home consumer market!

I also wish they could make the 3D glasses more transparent. Why do they have a tint to them? I guess that is just the way the LCD part is made, but it would be nice if they could be almost clear.
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post #461 of 712 Old 08-11-2010, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Chris

Room is 18 x 18. My 1.78 fixed screen is 12 ft wide, my 2.35 screen is electric roll down and it is 14 ft wide. The projector is set back 21 feet from the screen. Seating distance is about 16 feet to screen. My theater is very immersive. I am running dual lamps at full power
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post #462 of 712 Old 08-11-2010, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Hi Chris

Room is 18 x 18. My 1.78 fixed screen is 12 ft wide, my 2.35 screen is electric roll down and it is 14 ft wide. The projector is set back 21 feet from the screen. Seating distance is about 16 feet to screen. My theater is very immersive. I am running dual lamps at full power


That is awesome. My room is 16 x 25. My seating is 12', 18' and 24'. I sit in the middle. I am running both lamps at 80%. When in 3D mode I go to both lamps @ 100%. My screen scope screen is 14' wide.

Im interested on how you feel about brightness when you start watching 3D. I feel like I could use a little more brightness. I think that is because Im use to such a bright 2D image. The 3D image is bright without the glasses, but with glasses on it is knocked down alot.
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post #463 of 712 Old 08-12-2010, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I watched 3D in both 1.78 on my 12' screen, and 2.35 on my 14' screen and didn't think it was too dim but my projector lost all the calibration settings in the upgrade so this was uncalibrated/Max brightness.

On another note do you think that Xpand and CE4 glasses could work together using the same emitter? I am thinking less expensive 101's for group watching sports and a pair of CE4's for critical viewing
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post #464 of 712 Old 08-12-2010, 07:01 AM
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LIG. That would be close to the old Nixon trick when at state dinners he would serve a good wine to his guests but would have the dining stewards pour out the wine from the bottles the head table would be served from and refill those bottles with a much better wine.

Seriously, I think the art of 3D glasses will advance and investing in multiple pairs of very expensive glasses for an occasioal party might not be all that prudent.

Cool. Its not the tint that is really contributing to your brightness loss. The entire 3D system you are using eats up about 84% of the light you would have in 2D at the same power.

The glasses are essentially an LCD panel and when either side is fully open, the panel is not clear and really could never be. If I remember correctly there is a static polarizer built into the eyeglass lens as well which makes the plastic look tinted. The light loses from each component in the 3D chain are multiplicative. Re the tint loss, look at your screen in 3D with the glasses turned off and then turned on. You should see a very large drop in light intensity when the glasses are on and rather a small loss with them off. This is primarily a function of how long your eye sees the light on the screen rather than having the screen lit more of less lit continually in comparison. Remember in 3D, the image for each eye is only on the screen for a split second those it does repeat multiple times and that your shutters are open for only a lesser time than the image for that eye is on the screen. Ergo, lots of light loss. If you want more light in 3D, you might consider stacking two projectors. Now that would really take you to the head of the class. A rool down higher gain screen would be a much cheaper alternative but in any event compared to a commercial theater, you likely have a brighter 3D picture than they do.

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post #465 of 712 Old 08-12-2010, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

I watched 3D in both 1.78 on my 12' screen, and 2.35 on my 14' screen and didn't think it was too dim but my projector lost all the calibration settings in the upgrade so this was uncalibrated/Max brightness.

On another note do you think that Xpand and CE4 glasses could work together using the same emitter? I am thinking less expensive 101's for group watching sports and a pair of CE4's for critical viewing

I was thinking the same thing. 2 pair of CE4 and 10 pair of X101. But it is my guess that the IR frequency for both sets are different. I know my Samsung 3D glasses and my Nvidia 3D glasses wont work with the Xpand emitter. I would not mind having 2 emitters but if the room is flooded with 2 different signals the glasses may have trouble working.
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post #466 of 712 Old 08-12-2010, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

LIG. That would be close to the old Nixon trick when at state dinners he would serve a good wine to his guests but would have the dining stewards pour out the wine from the bottles the head table would be served from and refill those bottles with a much better wine.

Seriously, I think the art of 3D glasses will advance and investing in multiple pairs of very expensive glasses for an occasioal party might not be all that prudent.

Cool. Its not the tint that is really contributing to your brightness loss. The entire 3D system you are using eats up about 84% of the light you would have in 2D at the same power.

The glasses are essentially an LCD panel and when either side is fully open, the panel is not clear and really could never be. If I remember correctly there is a static polarizer built into the eyeglass lens as well which makes the plastic look tinted. The light loses from each component in the 3D chain are multiplicative. Re the tint loss, look at your screen in 3D with the glasses turned off and then turned on. You should see a very large drop in light intensity when the glasses are on and rather a small loss with them off. This is primarily a function of how long your eye sees the light on the screen rather than having the screen lit more of less lit continually in comparison. Remember in 3D, the image for each eye is only on the screen for a split second those it does repeat multiple times and that your shutters are open for only a lesser time than the image for that eye is on the screen. Ergo, lots of light loss. If you want more light in 3D, you might consider stacking two projectors. Now that would really take you to the head of the class. A rool down higher gain screen would be a much cheaper alternative but in any event compared to a commercial theater, you likely have a brighter 3D picture than they do.

That makes since... and I know I loose alot of light because of both eyes not being opened at the same time and the amount of time each lens is open. I definitely have a far brighter 3D image than any commercial theater i have been to. If i wasn't use to such a bright 2D image, It probably would not seem dim at all.

There has to be a mathematical formula for calculating lumens with a 3D setup? Just as there is with a 2D setup.
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post #467 of 712 Old 08-12-2010, 03:05 PM
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There is and there are industry white papers that set forth the total percentage eaten up. The various elements that eat it up are multiplicative. Thus you fiqure out how much light is lost because of the reduced time the image is on the screen, take whats left, multiply by 1 minus how much light is lot because the lens shutter is not open for the full period each image is on the then multiply by the transmission efficiency of the lcd shutter. This is all a needless calculation since the total amount eaten up by each system (shutter glass, polarizer, Infitec etc) is known. Infitec is the most inefficient using up something like 93% of the light.Shutter glass system I think eat up 84% of the light.

This means that consumer grade machines around the $10K class, which might give out 1500 lumens in 2D, will still be pretty dim in 3D. Trade offs like lower refresh rates mean more light but also more artifacting.

You guys with your Titans have light cannons so you should be fine. You of course lose sime contrast compared to peanut whistle like the JVC RSs, but you have on offs certainly higher than the commercial theaters and you have brighter 3D images. Life is good,

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post #468 of 712 Old 08-12-2010, 04:32 PM
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OK.. have been watching some of the PGA golf that recorded today. it looks fantastic! Its amazing the depth perception you get along with the changes in elevation. Some of the best 3D I have seen on DirecTV yet!
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post #469 of 712 Old 08-12-2010, 06:39 PM
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Lon,

According to Xpand's website the X103 glasses are available. I click on all the retailers and none have them listed though

They have reviews from people who bought the X103 glasses. I like the idea of having glasses I can use on my Samsung or my projector or any other 3DTV.

http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/glasses/X103-home/
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post #470 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 06:12 AM
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I switched from Direct TV a while back to FIOS. I am going to switch back when I get a 3D set. I really envy you guys having such fantastic 3D projectors now.

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post #471 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccool96 View Post

Lon,

According to Xpand's website the X103 glasses are available. I click on all the retailers and none have them listed though

They have reviews from people who bought the X103 glasses. I like the idea of having glasses I can use on my Samsung or my projector or any other 3DTV.

http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/glasses/X103-home/

I watched Directv 3d samples yesterday on a Sony 60". At our clients residence. It looked really good! I did notice pretty immediate eyestrain however.The strain felt like my eyes were working hard or something like that.After removing the glasses the strain stayed with me for a hour or 2. How about with the DPI? Would a bigger screen help?
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post #472 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 10:17 AM
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ccool96 and LJG what Vp are you guys using if I can ask
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post #473 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I am using a Radiance XE, however I need to run the 3D sources direct as the Radiance is not 3D compatable yet, the Radiance should have an update inlate August or September.

This will present some challenges but it is short term
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post #474 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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CE4 glasses just arrived with the EXXR Emitter, awaiting on my DVI detective (Thanks Chris). I don't have any 3D Blurays but Cloudy with Meatballs will be here tommorow.....
LL
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post #475 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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No 3D Directv for me, can't get the Titan to play nicely with the HDMI Detectvie plus, nor the DVI detective
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post #476 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 03:26 PM
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I don't know much about the edid detectives but I thought you first have to hook up the detective to a 3D set the DTV box likes and grab that edid and then the DTV box sees the grabbed edid in the detective and thinks its the edid of your display.

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post #477 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
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I don't know much about the edid detectives but I thought you first have to hook up the detective to a 3D set the DTV box likes and grab that edid and then the DTV box sees the grabbed edid in the detective and thinks its the edid of your display.

Correct. He sent them to me to capture the EDID info off my Samsung 3DTV. Im not sure what is going on with them not displaying properly. I think it possibly has to do with his Fiber Optic HDMI cable. That cable has transmitters and receivers at each end. They have to communicate like another HDMI device. I could not get mine to Detective to work well with my 1x4 HDMI splitter.

Maybe if that is taken out of the path all will play nicely.

Mine is hooked up as follows: DirecTV receiver > 1' HMDI > HDMI Detective Plus > 3' HDMI >AV receiver > 6' HDMI >Titan Input 3.

My equipment rack sits just underneath the projector shelf so it makes things alot easier for me. I am not sure how far away Lon's equipment is from his projector.
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post #478 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

CE4 glasses just arrived with the EXXR Emitter, awaiting on my DVI detective (Thanks Chris). I don't have any 3D Blurays but Cloudy with Meatballs will be here tommorow.....

Cant wait to hear your impressions of the RealD glasses. Also im going to look at my HDMI Detective Plus to see if there is a revision number or something that would make it different from yours.
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post #479 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddingle View Post

I watched Directv 3d samples yesterday on a Sony 60". At our clients residence. It looked really good! I did notice pretty immediate eyestrain however.The strain felt like my eyes were working hard or something like that.After removing the glasses the strain stayed with me for a hour or 2. How about with the DPI? Would a bigger screen help?

My Samsung glasses make my eyes feel like that quite frequently. I have had very little eye strain with my Titan. And the little bit I have had, is from poor programming on DirecTV. With Triple Flash Blu-ray I have had no eye strain at all.

DirecTV content is about 50/50. 50% is great and the other 50% is terrible and I cant watch it.
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post #480 of 712 Old 08-13-2010, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Will try taking fiber optic out of equation...

Chris, will let you know about CE4 as soon as I get cloudy with meatballs, or if I get lucky enough to get Directv 3D working
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