ADA Mach 4......WOW!!!! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 09-06-2010, 04:50 PM
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Jeff....we anxiously await your comments on the ADA.....will u start a new thread al la Halcro...or continue it on this one.

Thanks....
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Rosano View Post

Jeff....we anxiously await your comments on the ADA.....will u start a new thread al la Halcro...or continue it on this one.

Thanks....

FWIW, I would suggest continuing in this thread as i) it is easier to find information when all in one thread and ii) there is already some good information in this thread...

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Old 09-07-2010, 08:34 AM
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FWIW, I would suggest continuing in this thread as i) it is easier to find information when all in one thread and ii) there is already some good information in this thread...

I'm not close to any review. In fact, it took the weekend to get the control down on my iRule and RTI systems.. As you know, I am transitioning out of RTI to iRule. Just picked up an iPad yesterday to do the duty.

I hope to get it into the rack tonight and get it going later in the week. I am going to initially run it with my QSC DSPs in place until after CEDIA. Before I get an audio calibrator to do the audio, I want to see what the story is with the new TEQ-8 DSP at CEDIA as I may go right to that and skip the PEQ. We'll see...

However, I ran my Halcro with the QSC DSPs in place and it was the best sonic experience I've had in any theater. The QSCs are very clear. I will get a good indication of the ADA sound with them in place and things will likely improve once all EQ is done internally (be it PEQ or TEQ) once I decide the route to go.

For now, I can say the unit is esthetically gorgeous, the fans are quite quiet, and the programming software is as extensive as I have ever seen. Anything is possible. There are over 300 RS-232 commands for the most precise macros and control. Unlike the Halcro, the RS-232 commands are lightning fast to execute. You can save the set up configuration to a computer file so as to save your set up which is always nice in case of a wipe out of the memory. Also, you can change speaker crossovers and EQ on a PER INPUT basis. The flexibility is remarkable. You can set limits on a per input basis of EQ, bass output, max volume, anything.

The lan port works for feedback while programming.

I can't say enough for the ergonomics and sophisticated programming that is possible. This is a modern SSP unlike anything else that is out there.

It has to sound good, and that is the big question at this point. Stay tuned...

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:06 AM
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Jeff, are you any closer to taken a listen, albeit, an uncalibrated one...

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Old 09-10-2010, 05:15 AM
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Jeff, are you any closer to taken a listen, albeit, an uncalibrated one...

This weekend, I hope to do some listening and making sure no HDMI hand-shake issues.

I can say that the control is unmatched in the industry. That is nearly as important to me as any measure.

The iRule is a fantastic match to control it... especially with 2way on the near horizon. Soon my whole RTI system will be either on Ebay or relegated to the kitchen.

I have 6 HDMI sources to connect and test... and a whole lot of analog cables to pull out of my racks! Good riddance!

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Old 09-10-2010, 05:20 AM
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This weekend, I hope to do some listening and making sure no HDMI hand-shake issues.

Great, looking forward to your feedback (pun intended) an dthoughts...


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I can say that the control is unmatched in the industry. That is nearly as important to me as any measure.

Agree, the Crestron CI is finding the programming very easy because of its robustness...


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The iRule is a fantastic match to control it... especially with 2way on the near horizon. Soon my whole RTI system will be either on Ebay or relegated to the kitchen.

I relegated my RTI to the kid's entertainment room as I wanted them to have simple control of their flat panel based setup but I did not want to i) spend the money on another Crestron panel and ii) leave them with full control of the house, also with another Crestron panel..


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I have 6 HDMI sources to connect and test... and a whole lot of analog cables to pull out of my racks! Good riddance!

I would be surprised were you have any issues...

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Old 09-10-2010, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't worry Jeff. I see an AMX controller with an IPAD interface in your future. I will have something for you soon. I see an in2itive controller(shameless plug) being a demo in your theater.

I know it sounds great and looks great.....but can we communicate with it? If not it is useless:)
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:50 AM
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:56 AM
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I just know I don't want to ask... 'how much it costs?'

Adam
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by angeleyes View Post

i just know i don't want to ask... 'how much it costs?'

adam

+1.

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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Old 09-10-2010, 08:40 AM
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If you have to ask...

No price announcement until CEDIA unless Richard wants to share here.

I will say that we have found Trinnov to be an amazing system but if you thought the rhapsody had a lot of settings you ain't seen nothing yet. Good news is it will auto calibrate but you can then change anything you want using the pc software

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Old 09-10-2010, 08:41 AM
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If you have to ask...

No price announcement until CEDIA unless Richard wants to share here.

I will say that we have found Trinnov to be an amazing system but if you thought the rhapsody had a lot of settings you ain't seen nothing yet. Good news is it will auto calibrate but you can then change anything you want using the pc software

Less than a Mach IV???

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Old 09-10-2010, 09:09 AM
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Less than a Mach IV???

...less than a Suite 7.1 HD???
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:22 AM
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:25 AM
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More

Less than MACH IV??

Bigger than a bread box?

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:30 AM
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Hello Richard,

Now that the stand-alone trinnov is here, how long before the built in one for the rhapsody will appear.


Regards.......Alan
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:29 PM
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More

Notice Richard is the only one with smile????

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Old 09-10-2010, 01:34 PM
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Now that the stand-alone trinnov is here, how long before the built in one for the rhapsody will appear.

I bet that further integration of anything [Trinnov, video processing / doubtful since ADA are audio pureist first] will be in the new SUPER-BOX since I'd think it would be tough to develop it for the current processor family in the current form factor.

But they say these guys at ADA are top shelf so who knows?

Richard-ADA, looking forward in meeting you at CEDIA. I spoke to Jordan at Hills and though well versed as we discussed I think you can shed more light on one like me that lives in the dark most of the time...

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Old 09-10-2010, 02:46 PM
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I bet that further integration of anything [Trinnov, video processing / doubtful since ADA are audio pureist first] will be in the new SUPER-BOX since I'd think it would be tough to develop it for the current processor family in the current form factor.

But they say these guys at ADA are top shelf so who knows?

Richard-ADA, looking forward in meeting you at CEDIA. I spoke to Jordan at Hills and though well versed as we discussed I think you can shed more light on one like me that lives in the dark most of the time...

I agree.

The more I keep thinking about it the less I like the idea of an integrated Trinnov EQ, crammed into the small form factor, compromised and cut down due to limited DSP ressources.

What I would like is the other way round. Why not take the TEQ-12 and make it a pre-amp?? The 12 balanced/unbalanced inputs could be easily exchanged for standard pre-amp inputs and a HDMI interface. Put in the same DSP engine as used with Suite 7.1/Rhapsody and voila - the perfect pre-amp has been born!

It is certainly much easier to make a TEQ-12 a full featured pre-amp than to fully integrate Trinnov processing into a Rhapsody.

Whichever way you put it - I am waiting for an all-in-one solution without the additional DAC-ADC-DAC steps.
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Old 09-10-2010, 02:54 PM
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I agree.

The more I keep thinking about it the less I like the idea of an integrated Trinnov EQ, crammed into the small form factor, compromised and cut down due to limited DSP ressources.

What I would like is the other way round. Why not take the TEQ-12 and make it a pre-amp?? The 12 balanced/unbalanced inputs could be easily exchanged for standard pre-amp inputs and a HDMI interface. Put in the same DSP engine as used with Suite 7.1/Rhapsody and voila - the perfect pre-amp has been born!

It is certainly much easier to make a TEQ-12 a full featured pre-amp than to fully integrate Trinnov processing into a Rhapsody.

Whichever way you put it - I am waiting for an all-in-one solution without the additional DAC-ADC-DAC steps.

I've been using QSCs for years (extra A/D, D/A) and haven't noticed an issue. THe Dolby Lake is similarly designed. And it's sonics are first rate (I've been to Art's theater). I would imagine HDMI and HDCP is the biggest factor against a second digital EQ box and that is why analog is used (that is why there are so few options and the couple there are quirky to say the least). I imagine the analog side is well designed and would not be a factor in sound except for the theoretical.

But it's your choice, live now with a second rate solution waiting for something that may never happen or use a TEQ and get the DSP benefits (which far outweigh an extra A/D step) and enjoy state of the art now... (buy now, wait later).

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:32 PM
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I've been using QSCs for years (extra A/D, D/A) and haven't noticed an issue. THe Dolby Lake is similarly designed. And it's sonics are first rate (I've been to Art's theater). I would imagine HDMI and HDCP is the biggest factor against a second digital EQ box and that is why analog is used (that is why there are so few options and the couple there are quirky to say the least). I imagine the analog side is well designed and would not be a factor in sound except for the theoretical.

But it's your choice, live now with a second rate solution waiting for something that may never happen or use a TEQ and get the DSP benefits (which far outweigh an extra A/D step) and enjoy state of the art now... (buy now, wait later).

I certainly don't disagree with anything you said. Still it is an utter waste of ressources IMHO to make 2 seperate boxes with analog connections if an all-in-one box with an all-digital pipeline is a much more sensible solution. But - as you said - not available now.

So I will wait to hear from you and others, will try to get a demo unit for my own system (soon to be a combined Genelec/Seaton setup...) and then make the decision.

But I am quite certain that Ada sees the light as well and will opt for a full featured Trinnov unit with integrated pre-amp functionality rather sooner than later.

And given the expected price point of their TEQ units (> $10k for TEQ-8 and TEQ-12) makes me wonder what that kind of money could do in (re-)designing a proper accoustical environment without the urgent need for EQ at all.

Because the best and probably only good EQ is the one not needed ;-) In principle it remains a band-aid.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:01 PM
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Because the best and probably only good EQ is the one not needed ;-) In principle it remains a band-aid.

A band-aid on an innate, incurable wound.

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Old 09-10-2010, 04:20 PM
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Quote:

Neil, thanks for the link...



Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I've been using QSCs for years (extra A/D, D/A) and haven't noticed an issue. THe Dolby Lake is similarly designed. And it's sonics are first rate (I've been to Art's theater). I would imagine HDMI and HDCP is the biggest factor against a second digital EQ box and that is why analog is used (that is why there are so few options and the couple there are quirky to say the least). I imagine the analog side is well designed and would not be a factor in sound except for the theoretical.

But it's your choice, live now with a second rate solution waiting for something that may never happen or use a TEQ and get the DSP benefits (which far outweigh an extra A/D step) and enjoy state of the art now... (buy now, wait later).

Jeff, now that the cut sheet is out and the Trinnov is similar to your QSC in that its use rerquires an additional A/D D/A conversion are you leaning towards i) sticking with the QSC option or ii) switching gears to the ADD Trinnov solution...

Joel
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:17 PM
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Hmmm...

Been playing with control.


RS-232 control, fast except that changing VOLUME. With RS-232, it is very slow and some times hangs up the mach IV. I found a similar RS-232 response with my Halcro with volume. I ended up up using IR for volume. I will need to do so here, too until I get a new control solution. No big deal but apparently too many RS-232 commands (volume) hitting very quickly slows the piece down. Sometimes, I coud hang it up for 10 seconds after a flurry of VOL button hits! All other RS-232 commands are fast and responsive. Come to think of it, I have never seen fast and responsive RS-232 volume control.

IP control is very fast. Using iRule, commands, including volume, is very fast.

Neil,

I am going to see what pans out. If the TEQ comes out around $10K to $12K, I have to really see what I am getting for my money.

And Neil, the 4,5,6 pin with RTI did it!

I

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Old 09-10-2010, 05:32 PM
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THe Dolby Lake is similarly designed. And it's sonics are first rate (I've been to Art's theater).

It's those great Apogee converters!

Quote:


But it's your choice, live now with a second rate solution waiting for something that may never happen or use a TEQ and get the DSP benefits (which far outweigh an extra A/D step) and enjoy state of the art now... (buy now, wait later).

There's one more choice: Use the ADA's onboard PEQ. No need for any external EQ, QSC, Trinnov, Audyssey, or Lake. That seems to be one of the very strong assets of the ADA, yet it seems it's being dismissed. I realize it's nothing like Trinniv and remapping, but so far I have seen no evidence that for sheer room EQ, such PEQ as ADA provides, when properly tuned, would fall short of the mark.

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Old 09-10-2010, 05:40 PM
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Actually, how do I do IR codes in the RTI remote?? I forgot

Doh!

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Old 09-10-2010, 06:26 PM
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I have no idea what ADA will be charging but I can tell you -- because I have ha dit priced out -- that the Trinnov solution as sold from is USD 20,000 to USD 30,000 depending on how it i sspecified...

I would therefore guess that the ADA 12-channel implimentation will be in the USD 12,000+ (or possibley USD 15,000+) range...and, to be clear, this is just my guess...

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Old 09-11-2010, 08:43 AM
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Slow progress...
LL

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Old 09-11-2010, 09:44 AM
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Btw - any users have ir hex codes for the ada??

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Old 09-11-2010, 12:35 PM
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You have to use the BITS program to get the hex codes.

Dan

Now that I think about it, RTI's program should show you the hex for the ir commands- they haven't changed in 20 years! Any Rhapsody, Reference, or Suite7.1 commands should apply directly to the Mach4 for input, mode, volume, etc. The differences between the devices really only shows when you use the new setup software vs the older software.

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