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post #91 of 2136 Old 05-25-2010, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Hello Richard,

good to hear that the Trinnov implementation is making progress.

TEQ-8 suggests it will be an 8-channel solution - therefor one subwoofer channel.

- Are there plans to support more individual subwoofer channels in the future (with one of the pre/pro's and another Trinnov external unit - I know, I know - not even the first TEQ has been launched and already questions about the next big thing...)?

- Can you talk about the TEQ-8 feature set - you mentioned (8) balanced/unbalanced inputs/outputs. Is there an all digital interface present as well? This is in order to avoid the additional A/D D/A steps! Will any of your upcoming pre/pros support such a digital link to the TEQ unit? How does your TEQ-8 unit compare to the latest Trinnov optimizers (Stereo and multichannel) - does it use the same algorithms, resolution, ...?

- Talking about upcoming pre/pro's... I am much interested in the balanced Rhapsody Mach IV - but I am holding back because I demand an Trinnov Auto EQ solution. I prefer it to be integrated - but if an external box is necessary I certainly require an "lossless" all digital link.

So I would like an update on the progress of integrating Trinnov tech into the Rhapsody!

Thank you!

The TEQ chassis (3RU) is designed to accommodate 4, 8 or 12 channels. It incorporates most of the Optomizer's feature set. I won't go into details right now but if you are familiar with that unit, you will be extremely pleased with our implementation. Currently, our TEQ will be an external device that will at least synchronize with the volume control of our Suite 7.1 HD and Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV.

Frankly, I mentioned it figuring that word might have hit these pages sooner or later about last weeks event. We are still defining some features and as those of you familiar with ADA know, we don't like talking "vapor". It's not our style. So as we clear a few milestones, I will update here.

As Iron Man says, "sometimes you have to run before you can walk."
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post #92 of 2136 Old 05-25-2010, 12:18 PM
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Can the TEQ-8 be used with other SSPs?

Thanks for the info.


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post #93 of 2136 Old 05-25-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Can the TEQ-8 be used with other SSPs?

Thanks for the info.

Absolutely.
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post #94 of 2136 Old 05-25-2010, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

Currently, our TEQ will be an external device that will at least synchronize with the volume control of our Suite 7.1 HD and Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV.

Will there be any provision for non-ADA pre-pros to synch with the TEQ? Or have you not decided that yet?

Sanjay
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post #95 of 2136 Old 05-25-2010, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Will there be any provision for non-ADA pre-pros to synch with the TEQ? Or have you not decided that yet?

What would be the convenience of syncing with a pre-pro vs simply being an add-on?


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post #96 of 2136 Old 05-25-2010, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

While you save $1000 by combining the 7.1 with an XLRX, I personally believe the 2nd crossover well worth going for the Mach IV.

Hi Richard, 2 more questions:

1. So, buy a Suite 7.1 and an XLRX, and you knock $1K off the total price?

2. Regarding that extra crossover on the Mach, IV... If i'm only running small LCRs and no full range speakers, there would be no use for the extra 80 Hz filter? If so, the Suite 7.1 may be for me? correct?

Thanks.


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post #97 of 2136 Old 05-25-2010, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

What would be the convenience of syncing with a pre-pro vs simply being an add-on?

Richard posted: "Currently, our TEQ will be an external device that will at least synchronize with the volume control of our Suite 7.1 HD and Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV." So it seems there are reasons for this synchronization.

Maybe the TEQ has some post-processing that requires knowledge of volume level (e.g., dynamic EQ, loudness compensation, etc). Those type of features can't be used on outboard EQ devices like the Audyssey Sound Equalizer that don't know how far away from reference the volume level is.

In any case, I was curious whether the TEQ would work properly with non-ADA pre-pros that it can't synch volume levels with.

Sanjay
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post #98 of 2136 Old 05-25-2010, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Richard posted: "Currently, our TEQ will be an external device that will at least synchronize with the volume control of our Suite 7.1 HD and Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV." So it seems there are reasons for this synchronization.

Maybe the TEQ has some post-processing that requires knowledge of volume level (e.g., dynamic EQ, loudness compensation, etc). Those type of features can't be used on outboard EQ devices like the Audyssey Sound Equalizer that don't know how far away from reference the volume level is.

In any case, I was curious whether the TEQ would work properly with non-ADA pre-pros that it can't synch volume levels with.

In an ideal digital signal chain, the processing feeds the DACs, which feed the volume controls and output stages.

Bolting on an external processor box not only adds another cycle of A-D and D-A, it sits after the volume control.

My guess is the TEQ apparently has its own volume control, so the one on the main preamp should be disengaged and forward its commands to the one in the TEQ.

This is my conjecture--might be correct, might be a fairy tale.

Roger

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post #99 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

This is my conjecture--might be correct, might be a fairy tale.

Makes more sense than my guess.

Sanjay
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post #100 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Hi Richard, 2 more questions:

1. So, buy a Suite 7.1 and an XLRX, and you knock $1K off the total price?

2. Regarding that extra crossover on the Mach, IV... If i'm only running small LCRs and no full range speakers, there would be no use for the extra 80 Hz filter? If so, the Suite 7.1 may be for me? correct?

Thanks.

First, regarding the "extra $1000", to be clear, the Suite 7.1 HD US Cost is $5499. The XLRX-8 is $999. The Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV is $7499 (either version). So at $6498 for the combination of Suite 7.1 HD & XLRX-8, is about $1000 less than the Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV B (balanced).

As for the second cross-over in the Mach IV and systems with "small" speakers, the only benefit this crossover provides is if you are using the 8-channel bypass audio input (for SACD or DVD Audio). These tracks are full-range all channels and can pass through this crossover thus rolling off the small speakers and providing bass summing.

But if you are not using large speaker and don't have SACD or DVD Audio, you will be fine with the Suite 7.1 HD.
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post #101 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

In an ideal digital signal chain, the processing feeds the DACs, which feed the volume controls and output stages.

Bolting on an external processor box not only adds another cycle of A-D and D-A, it sits after the volume control.

My guess is the TEQ apparently has its own volume control, so the one on the main preamp should be disengaged and forward its commands to the one in the TEQ.

This is my conjecture--might be correct, might be a fairy tale.

Hi Rodger:

You are correct although those using another preamp won't suffer. I have done shows and even trainings in which I have adjusted volume in the TEQ leaving our preamps at 0dB or where I have adjusted volume casually in the preamp. Unlike the first generation Pro Logic chips which kind of lost their decoding glue when the input levels dropped to low or where too high, the TEQ doesn't really seem to care. Considering that most volume ranges (from low to high) aren't that dramatic really, I can easily see the TEQ working flawlessly with either our preamps that track volume or other preamps that won't.
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post #102 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 09:30 AM
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Is there an official or expected MSRP on the TEQ?
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post #103 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Party View Post

Is there an official or expected MSRP on the TEQ?

Ron:

At this time, we are not firm on any pricing. We anticipate a cost for the TEQ-8 above $10K. How far above we don't know yet.

Richard
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post #104 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 10:47 AM
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Hi Richard!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

the only benefit this crossover provides is if you are using the 8-channel bypass audio input (for SACD or DVD Audio). These tracks are full-range all channels and can pass through this crossover thus rolling off the small speakers and providing bass summing.

But if you are not using large speaker and don't have SACD or DVD Audio, you will be fine with the Suite 7.1 HD.

Or, just to be complete, if you choose to listen to your DVD-A or SACD via a PCM input, then the analog bass management isn't needed either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

You are correct although those using another preamp won't suffer. I have done shows and even trainings in which I have adjusted volume in the TEQ leaving our preamps at 0dB or where I have adjusted volume casually in the preamp. Unlike the first generation Pro Logic chips which kind of lost their decoding glue when the input levels dropped to low or where too high, the TEQ doesn't really seem to care. Considering that most volume ranges (from low to high) aren't that dramatic really, I can easily see the TEQ working flawlessly with either our preamps that track volume or other preamps that won't.

Absolutely.

It was not processing that I was thinking about. Just about optimized use of TEQ's DSPs and DACs. Here's the scenario when using a the pre-pro's volume instead of TEQ's. After cal, the volume control reads 0 for ref, and that gives essentially unity gain thru the volume stage (give or take a few for trims and whatnot).

Now let's say one is doing typical music listening at -20. The audio is attenuated 20 dB in the digital domain, thru the TEQ (or the Audyssey Pro outboard box, or the Behringer DSP EQ if you like) and its respective DACs, which drive the power amps directly. We've seen folks become apoplectic that attenuating 4 dB for Dialnorm is degrading dynamic range, so they may feel the same about 20 dB.

But that's a bullet you and Albert have neatly dodged!

Even folks with a non-ADA processor can reap the same benefits as long as they use TEQ's volume control. I suppose it is accessible thru RS232. Is there also an IR control? If so, simply reprogramming the Harmony would solve that nicely.

The only thing that would be buggared would by Dynamic Volume in a generic AVP, but since that only works with MultEQ, that's an unlikely event--why run MultEQ when you spent $10k for Trinnov?

Roger

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post #105 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 03:56 PM
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Very slick piece but trouble finding one. And I think it is mainly custom installers. No Michigan dealers. Anyone help me acquire one? I do have Classe locally but not my first choice. My Halcro sold in hours.


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post #106 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Very slick piece but trouble finding one. And I think it is mainly custom installers. No Michigan dealers. Anyone help me acquire one? I do have Classe locally but not my first choice. My Halcro sold in hours.

I sold my Halcro in the first day too.

There is a dealer in NY that I talked to a couple of times and he is a member here. I don't know his AVS ID but I can get you his e-mail if you like. I know he just sold his Halcro demo awhile back and now has a ADA in his personal system.

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post #107 of 2136 Old 05-26-2010, 08:30 PM
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Jeff, I'm a dealer pm me and we can talk offline

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post #108 of 2136 Old 06-04-2010, 04:39 AM
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Richard,

Couple things... In talking with another prospective buyer, I found out a couple things I did not know.

1. There is no On Screen Display (OSD)?? I know there is feedback for 2-wat remotes, but I am talking about a on screen display of volume, surround mode, etc... Why is this so? Can / WIll it be added via software??

2. I see an ethernet port on back but no serial port. I assume you use an RJ-45 adapter for your serial cable for RS-232 - but what if you want to use BOTH RS-232 AND Lan for IP control. Can you split it or will that foul up everything?

I assume you'd use this:



Thanks!!


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post #109 of 2136 Old 06-04-2010, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Richard,

Couple things... In talking with another prospective buyer, I found out a couple things I did not know.

1. There is no On Screen Display (OSD)?? I know there is feedback for 2-wat remotes, but I am talking about a on screen display of volume, surround mode, etc... Why is this so? Can / WIll it be added via software??

2. I see an ethernet port on back but no serial port. I assume you use an RJ-45 adapter for your serial cable for RS-232 - but what if you want to use BOTH RS-232 AND Lan for IP control. Can you split it or will that foul up everything?

I assume you'd use this:



Thanks!!

There is no OSD and in a way we are very pleased we didn't insist on one. This keeps the video super clean and with respect to 3D, I am told that OSD is even more complicated. Remember that most ADA preamps are integrated with some type of two-way control.

As for RS-232, while the back panel features an RJ-45 network connection, if you want RS-232, I suggest adding our ISO-CAT-2 ADA Bus to RS-232 converter.

Richard
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post #110 of 2136 Old 06-04-2010, 06:40 AM
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Don't know about 3D implications, but lack of OSD has been one of my hesitations about IV.


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post #111 of 2136 Old 06-04-2010, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

There is no OSD and in a way we are very pleased we didn't insist on one. This keeps the video super clean and with respect to 3D, I am told that OSD is even more complicated. Remember that most ADA preamps are integrated with some type of two-way control.

As for RS-232, while the back panel features an RJ-45 network connection, if you want RS-232, I suggest adding our ISO-CAT-2 ADA Bus to RS-232 converter.

Richard

Jeff:

A few points about Richard's above comments:

1. The absence of OSD is one of the reasons that I picked the unit because the video is essentially untouched. This is great news!

2. The integration/use of a two way control system relieves the need for OSD. I for example use a Crestron touch panel and that touch panel not only includes a volume indicator, a number of state/status indicators (i.e. THX engaged/not engaged, etc.), but it also incldues a "control window" that mirrors the front panel display...this setup gives me complete control on the unit, does not disturb the other viewers and keeps the video pristine...where the beef?

3. When connected my MACH IV will have both RS-232 and ethernet connection by the means suggested by Richard.


I hope that helps...

Joel
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post #112 of 2136 Old 06-04-2010, 03:14 PM
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...i licked the unit...

Must be nicer than I'd imagined
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post #113 of 2136 Old 06-04-2010, 08:20 PM
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Joelc -

Do you happen to have a pdf of the Mach IV owner manual? I would love to get my hands on this so I could read more about it, since the website literature is pretty skimpy.

Thanks.
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post #114 of 2136 Old 06-05-2010, 03:50 AM
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Richard,

1. Is there Lipsync control in a per input basis?


2. Is there a manual you can post as a link or email to us??


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post #115 of 2136 Old 06-05-2010, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post

Joelc -

Do you happen to have a pdf of the Mach IV owner manual? I would love to get my hands on this so I could read more about it, since the website literature is pretty skimpy.

Thanks.

If I had a manual I would post and share it...if you read my posts closely you will notice that they are worded in the future tense because while I have purchased a unit it will not be installed for another two to three weeks...that said, once the box is cracked open I will let you know...

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post #116 of 2136 Old 06-05-2010, 02:16 PM
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Thanks!
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post #117 of 2136 Old 06-06-2010, 07:08 AM
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Let me make a couple points here;

The Rhapsody Mach IV is a device that is intended for the dealer/installer to install- not necessarily the end-user. There is a setup PC program that must be used to take advantage of the features that are built into the Rhapsody- this is only available to the dealers via password protection. There is a "black box" called the ISO-CATII that you use to connect the Rhapsody to RS-232; this is the interface for the programming.

Secondly, the Mach IV manual is not posted on the ADA website, I can post a version of the Mach 3 manual that will cover basic operation of the processor and manual setup. However- the advanced features for the Mach 4 are only available as videos in the dealer portion of the website- so those are for Richard to post if he feels that it is OK to do so. Once again, it seems to me that the intention is for dealers to be the ones to setup these features in the processors (the Suite 7.1HD shares them), not the end-user.

Dan

-sorry, the filesize for the maual is 6 times bigger than allowed, so we'll have to see if Richard can work some magic.

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post #118 of 2136 Old 06-06-2010, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Let me make a couple points here;

The Rhapsody Mach IV is a device that is intended for the dealer/installer to install- not necessarily the end-user. There is a setup PC program that must be used to take advantage of the features that are built into the Rhapsody- this is only available to the dealers via password protection. There is a "black box" called the ISO-CATII that you use to connect the Rhapsody to RS-232; this is the interface for the programming.

Secondly, the Mach IV manual is not posted on the ADA website, I can post a version of the Mach 3 manual that will cover basic operation of the processor and manual setup. However- the advanced features for the Mach 4 are only available as videos in the dealer portion of the website- so those are for Richard to post if he feels that it is OK to do so. Once again, it seems to me that the intention is for dealers to be the ones to setup these features in the processors (the Suite 7.1HD shares them), not the end-user.

Dan

-sorry, the filesize for the maual is 6 times bigger than allowed, so we'll have to see if Richard can work some magic.

You can use "you send it" to send to individual emails you Halcro traitor ...........
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post #119 of 2136 Old 06-06-2010, 11:09 AM
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Hey Dan,

Did you go from the Halcro SSP-200 to the ADA and if so is the ADA as good SQ wise for movies?

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post #120 of 2136 Old 06-06-2010, 08:49 PM
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No, but I installed the system at jbm's house and he has a Halcro (for now)- and I'm a Halcro dealer as well. That's why he's calling me a traitor. In my opinion, the ADA sounds better with HDMI, and the user interface alone puts the ADA ahead. More will come out in the wash once I get everything finished at his house- there's some more stuff in the works.

Dan

Dan Francis
Head of Sales US
C'SEED Entertainment Systems GMBH

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Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

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