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post #1471 of 2136 Old 04-08-2012, 07:45 AM
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I believe Discrete ES/EX makes the rears Mono. PLIIx makes the rears Stereo.

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1472 of 2136 Old 04-08-2012, 10:36 AM
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Interesting. I guess I never realized that most BD's were only 5.1. Are there any current BD's out with good soundtracks that anyone knows of?

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post #1473 of 2136 Old 04-08-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Are there any current BD's out with good soundtracks that anyone knows of?

Good list here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1190265

Sanjay
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post #1474 of 2136 Old 04-08-2012, 06:45 PM
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Thanks. I don't see though where it lists titles that are in 7.1. Did I miss it?

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post #1475 of 2136 Old 04-08-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

I don't see though where it lists titles that are in 7.1.

I didn't see were you were asking about titles that are in 7.1 (see your previous post).

A list of 7.1 titles can be found here, though you'll have to click on individual reviews to see how good their soundtracks are.

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post #1476 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 09:25 AM
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Sweet. Thanks for that.

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post #1477 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 11:12 AM
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I have to say I've never used 7.1 Direct, I've always been an Discrete ES/EX user. Is it quite a noticeable difference?
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post #1478 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

I have to say I've never used 7.1 Direct, I've always been an Discrete ES/EX user. Is it quite a noticeable difference?

Yes.

I believe Discrete only uses there 5.1 soundtrack and discards the 6th and 7th channels on the soundtrack. In doing so, it makes the rears mono with sound derived from the sides. Direct uses the straight 7.1 soundtrack right from the disc with no extra processing and keeping the soundtrack stereo on the back (better staging).

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1479 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 11:44 AM
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Thanks, I look forward to trying this.

Now this may sound a really dumb question, but what is the easiest way to detect a 7.1 sound track?
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post #1480 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post

Thanks, I look forward to trying this.

Now this may sound a really dumb question, but what is the easiest way to detect a 7.1 sound track?

The Display on the ADA will show all 7 speakers lit up on one side of the display. If you have DIRECT mode on, it will also show 7.1 speakers lit up on the other side of the display. If you have a 5.1 soundtrack, it will show 5 speakers lit up on one side of the display and then 7 speakers lit up on the other side of the display if you're using a surround mode that will expand 5.1 to 7.1 (or two speakers lit up if putting a 7 ch soundtrack to stereo).

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1481 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

The Display on the ADA will show all 7 speakers lit up on one side of the display. If you have DIRECT mode on, it will also show 7.1 speakers lit up on the other side of the display. If you have a 5.1 soundtrack, it will show 5 speakers lit up on one side of the display and then 7 speakers lit up on the other side of the display if you're using a surround mode that will expand 5.1 to 7.1 (or two speakers lit up if putting a 7 ch soundtrack to stereo).


Thank you
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post #1482 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 12:23 PM
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Good info. I'm getting War Horse tonight. It has 7.1 DTS. I will try Direct but I'm not sure my ADA will show 7.1 on the inputs because I use a PS3 and have to LPCM the stream. Is that correct?

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post #1483 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Good info. I'm getting War Horse tonight. It has 7.1 DTS. I will try Direct but I'm not sure my ADA will show 7.1 on the inputs because I use a PS3 and have to LPCM the stream. Is that correct?

I have never used LPCM but it should theoretically work. Why not bitstream out from the PS3? It can't do that?? Advantages to such all around. But LPCM should work fine.

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1484 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 01:57 PM
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I have the earlier style PS3. I will bitstream but then not pass the lossless audio in that case.

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post #1485 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 02:38 PM
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This is an old article, but a good read.

"First let's clarify some nomenclature. Dolby and DTS have both introduced new audio codecs. The lossy ones are DD+ (Dolby Digital Plus) and DTS-HD (High Definition). The lossless codecs are Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (Master Audio).

Everything a receiver does to the soundtrack, up to and including D/A conversion, requires the soundtrack to be in uncompressed PCM form. In fact, when you send your receiver a DD or DTS bitstream, the first thing it does is decompress the soundtrack to linear PCM. Only then can it apply things like bass management, time alignment, etc.

Just like editing the document requires unzipping the file first, doing any of this live-mixing to the soundtrack requires decoding it to linear PCM first. This is why it has to be done in the player. They're not going to transmit every option to your receiver, just one soundtrack. You choose what you want to hear, it is mixed in the player (i.e. the soundtrack you want to hear is literally built in real time inside the player) and transmitted as a final mix to your receiver.

Current HDMI allows 8 channels of 96/24 PCM to be transmitted (more than enough resolution for any soundtrack), but not the new codecs in their native form. When HDMI 1.3 arrives, it will allow the new codecs mentioned above to be transmitted in their native bitstream, but only if they were authored in 'Basic' mode (no interactivity). If the soundtrack was authored in Advanced mode, then it cannot be transmitted in undecoded form; decoding in the player is mandatory because of live mixing.

So far, all HD DVD soundtracks have been authored in Advanced mode. Which means nothing will change when new receivers arrive on the market. Despite having HDMI 1.3 transmission and decoders built into the receiver, decoding will still have to take place in the player.

Currently, Blu-ray discs are authored in Basic mode, since they haven't gotten interactivity yet. As soon as BD Java is up and working, they'll all be authored in Advanced mode too. At that point, what are the decoders in the receivers going to do? Decode the relatively few BD titles that were released before interactivity? Most of those titles will be re-issued anyway.

Personally, I'm glad that decoding is shifting to the player. I wish it had always been that way. Since receivers need the data in PCM form anyway, that's what every player should be outputting (irrespective of what format is used to store the data on the disc). As mentioned before, when new audio codecs and formats arrive, you'll have to buy a new player. But as long as the players keep outputting the audio in PCM form, current receivers will always remain compatible with anything that shows up in the future. How elegant is that!"

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post #1486 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

This is an old article, but a good read.

Thanx, but that was from an old post of mine about HD DVD and might not be applicable to how soundtracks are currently authored on BD.

Sanjay
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post #1487 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 07:26 PM
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Just thought some of you may like to know, the new revision of REW has been released and it has Ada peq support!
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post #1488 of 2136 Old 04-09-2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Just thought some of you may like to know, the new revision of REW has been released and it has Ada peq support!

I am not surprised by this as Graham -- ceenhad's partner in the UK -- use to be a big Tag McLaren fan boy and John Mulcahy -- REW's author -- use to be the head software engineer at Tag McLaren so the fact that these two got together is, as noted before, not surprising...

I will also add that from my personal experience that Graham and John [who I have met in person] are "top drawer"...I went to the TMA head quarters when I ordered my AV 192R and spent time with Udo [the CEO], Steve Harris and John who had all the time in the day for me...it was truly a wonderful experience...

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post #1489 of 2136 Old 04-10-2012, 04:58 AM
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REW? What is this?

Thanks!

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1490 of 2136 Old 04-10-2012, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

REW? What is this?

Thanks!

REW is Room EQ Software whose genesis was originally developed for the room equalization functionality found in the TAG McLaren AV32RDP and AV192R by John Mulcahy who, per my below post, was one of the key forces behind TMA. When TMA exited the audio business it was "genericized" by him and continually developed and refined...see http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ for more information....

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post #1491 of 2136 Old 04-10-2012, 08:38 AM
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I am curious what additional features the Trinnov add on box adds to the ADA that is not in the Sherwood 972 receiver? I have the Suite 7.1 but recently as an experiment bought a close-out 972. I bought it as a closeout for 1/3rd of its retail price so it is dirt cheap vs. the Suite 7.1 plus Trinnov. It has some operational problems in my opinion but it sounds really darn good for the price and with the Trinnov it is something special. I guess I am looking for justification for the enormous price difference in the implementation by ADA of Trinnov and Sherwood's. I mean $600 (or even 1800 retail) for a receiver implementation (but with preouts) vs the thousands for ADA gives one pause and I think I am justified in asking what are you getting for all the addtional money.
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post #1492 of 2136 Old 04-10-2012, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

I am curious what additional features the Trinnov add on box adds to the ADA that is not in the Sherwood 972 receiver?.....

Randy, after purchasing the ST-2 PRO, I persuaded a friend to buy that Sherwood for use as a pre in his 2.1ch system, so I'm passably familiar with the fundamental differences. Off the top of my head:

Software is IIRC 2 gen newer
All channel ADC
Better DACs
Infinitely more user adjustability, including:
  • I/O choices
  • Selection and manipulation of FR and or phase correction (target curves)
  • 29 user presets
  • Resolution and type of filtering (IIR, FIR or both)
  • Separate and supplemental FIR and/or 1/3 octave PEQ filtering
  • Adjustment of early/late reflections correction
  • Crossover manipulation
  • # of positions used in measurements, and weighting of each position
  • Excellent graphics showing before/after/correction for all measurements, which may be overlaid with considerable flexibility

That's not a comprehensive list, nor does it include any enhancement of Spatial Remapping, with which specifics I'm not familiar as I don't use it.
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post #1493 of 2136 Old 04-10-2012, 09:35 AM
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I watched War Horse last night. DTS MA 7.1. I listened in 'Direct' mode.

I was getting all channels active but only 5.1 lit up on the input side, 7.1 on the output side. Must be because I do LPCM out of my PS3. I have another player coming that will do bitstream so I'm looking forward to a comparison.

The audio in the movie was pretty awesome. The battle scenes were over the top. Sounded a lot like Saving Private Ryan. Amazing sounds as bombs and bullets were flying all accross the room.

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post #1494 of 2136 Old 04-10-2012, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

I watched War Horse last night. DTS MA 7.1. I listened in 'Direct' mode.

I was getting all channels active but only 5.1 lit up on the input side, 7.1 on the output side. Must be because I do LPCM out of my PS3. I have another player coming that will do bitstream so I'm looking forward to a comparison.

The audio in the movie was pretty awesome. The battle scenes were over the top. Sounded a lot like Saving Private Ryan. Amazing sounds as bombs and bullets were flying all accross the room.

Check your audio settings in your PS3. Should be fine.

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #1495 of 2136 Old 04-10-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Randy, after purchasing the ST-2 PRO, I persuaded a friend to buy that Sherwood for use as a pre in his 2.1ch system, so I'm passably familiar with the fundamental differences. Off the top of my head:

Software is IIRC 2 gen newer
All channel ADC
Better DACs
Infinitely more user adjustability, including:
  • I/O choices
  • Selection and manipulation of FR and or phase correction (target curves)
  • 29 user presets
  • Resolution and type of filtering (IIR, FIR or both)
  • Separate and supplemental FIR and/or 1/3 octave PEQ filtering
  • Adjustment of early/late reflections correction
  • Crossover manipulation
  • # of positions used in measurements, and weighting of each position
  • Excellent graphics showing before/after/correction for all measurements, which may be overlaid with considerable flexibility

That's not a comprehensive list, nor does it include any enhancement of Spatial Remapping, with which specifics I'm not familiar as I don't use it.

That helps. Thanks.
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post #1496 of 2136 Old 04-11-2012, 12:26 PM
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How many ADA owners have done the PEQ equalization with or without a RTA? How were the results? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to pay forum member UMR to do a calibration on my Mach4. Thx

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post #1497 of 2136 Old 04-11-2012, 03:48 PM
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If the PEQ is the only way to deal with FR anamolies, then yes. I've PEQ'ed several ADA units , always an improvement. Does he have the software or do you? UMR can certainly handle it.

my .02

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post #1498 of 2136 Old 04-11-2012, 04:40 PM
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Thanks Dan. I have the software and yes, UMR is very good. He did my RS2 and 151 Kuro. My room was designed by Dennis Erskine so it sounds pretty awesome. In fact, when Jeff did my pj, he ran a quick audio analysis when I had my Lex MC1 in the system. I think he was a little surprised at how flat the room was. Anyway, I'll probably have him do it.

Chris

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post #1499 of 2136 Old 04-12-2012, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

How many ADA owners have done the PEQ equalization with or without a RTA? How were the results? I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to pay forum member UMR to do a calibration on my Mach4. Thx

I have done it myself using REW and keeping it pretty simple and staying below 1khz but it makes quite a difference especially around the speaker/sub crossover area. Bass is generally the biggest gain though, depending on your room of course.

I posted a quick and dirty before and after waterfall of my sub channel here, post #802:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/audio...rt-2-a-27.html

This was just using the filters suggested by REW and prior to any manual fiddling.

I keep promising myself I will get Graham over for a Pro Calibration but I keep changing my kit . From what i have heard from people who have had it done it is pretty fantastic.

Adam
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post #1500 of 2136 Old 04-13-2012, 12:02 PM
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I will try to set up my Cinema Rhapsody Mark IV-B over the next week or two. Am almost done wiring my rack room but am really looking forward to getting started on the ADA.

Any tips on how to get started? Also does anyone have the most recent version of the ADA software Suite they could send me.

Much appreciated.

Chartrand Family Theater Design & Build
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1357481
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