SIM2 MICO50 LED Has Arrived - Page 23 - AVS Forum
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post #661 of 701 Old 06-02-2010, 02:01 PM
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The VDC is based on the delta chassis.



Sim2 now adds the MICO 60 to its line up. It is same as a MICO 50, but with addition of an IP addressable connection. Both MICO 50 and MICO 60 are now available with 3 different lens options. The additional lens is a super-short throw fixed focal length of .6x, usable for rear projection situations.
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post #662 of 701 Old 06-03-2010, 06:49 AM
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There was a whole lot of talk awhile ago about new LED models from Sim2. Brighter, dimmer, yada yada. Just a quibble, but I do not think adding features such as IP addressable or making it with a short throw lens makes it a new model. Its more like the basic unit is available with a three different throw range lenses and with IP addressibility. One model with options.

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post #663 of 701 Old 06-03-2010, 07:09 AM
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The Mico 60 was always to be a reconfigured 50. The 20 and 40 will be interesting in terms of seeing where the cost cutting is made, and how that impacts the image.

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post #664 of 701 Old 06-03-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

The VDC is based on the delta chassis.

Is that a problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by netroamer View Post

It's interesting that you raise this issue. I assume any motion blur tech is based on an increased refresh rate like 120hz or 240hz. When I noticed that the MICO 50 had no user control over motion control I queried the Sim2 rep about that and received a non-answer answer about the frequency of led glass being the reason for the increased refresh rate of flat panels. I'm not that familiar with the subject so I would be interested in any led projector manufacturer that has a solution to the issue. Is VDC going to enter the consumer market with this technology?

I am not sure how it works. The only info I have heard is from a couple of other people who says it works very well. If you want to call VDC or pm Scott, then that would probably be your best bet. I am going to try my best to stop in on my way back down in a couple of weeks, so if you aren't in a hurry.

As for the consumer market, they will sell to anyone as far as I know.

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post #665 of 701 Old 06-03-2010, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Is that a problem?



I am not sure how it works. The only info I have heard is from a couple of other people who says it works very well. If you want to call VDC or pm Scott, then that would probably be your best bet. I am going to try my best to stop in on my way back down in a couple of weeks, so if you aren't in a hurry.

As for the consumer market, they will sell to anyone as far as I know.

Please excuse my naiveté, but I have never seen motion blur as a problem with DLP. I have seen the MICO 50 and was not aware of any motion blur as a result of the LED light source.

I have only associated motion blur with LCD panel type projectors and flat screens.
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post #666 of 701 Old 06-03-2010, 02:35 PM
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The bigger problem is thread blur.

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post #667 of 701 Old 06-03-2010, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Please excuse my naiveté, but I have never seen motion blur as a problem with DLP. I have seen the MICO 50 and was not aware of any motion blur as a result of the LED light source.

I have only associated motion blur with LCD panel type projectors and flat screens.

As Darin might say, if you don't see it then don't go looking for it. I can see it quite easily. The loss in resolution during moving scenes is one of the reasons I still like CRT. I am not sure if VDC's tech fully eliminates this issue with dlp or not till I see it. Oh, and if you see it with LCD then you should be able to see it with dlp or LCOS.

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post #668 of 701 Old 06-11-2010, 02:40 PM
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A little update as far as reviews go. German magazine "Heimkino" reviewed the Mico 50 in the July/August issue. As they have previously reviewed the Runco Q750 and made it their new reference, some might be interested how they compare. I posted a link to their Runco review (in german) in the Q750 thread a while ago.

To make a long story short here are some measurements for those interested in numbers.

Lumens:
Mico 50: 530/500 (without dynamic black / with dynamic black)
Runco Q750: 460

Black level:
Mico 50: 0.07
Q750: 0.03

Ansi CR:
Mico 50: 560:1
Q750: 613:1

On/Off CR:
Mico 50: 7143:1
Q750: 15333:1

I'd still recommend to compare both side by side, as the numbers don't tell the whole story.

- Stephan
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post #669 of 701 Old 06-11-2010, 10:10 PM
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I saw the vivitek LED unit at Infocomm. I was surprised that it suffered from strobing ("rainbow") effect. I am assuming the switching rate of the LEDs is not much higher than color wheel.

Anyone observe the same on these other units? With only a couple of suppliers of LED engines for the industry I suspect others suffer the same...

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post #670 of 701 Old 06-12-2010, 12:48 AM
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Amir,

Was the strobing actually the "RBE - rainbow effect" (i.e. sequential display of primary colors)? I say this because even 3chip DLP has strobing, just not RBE; something that completey caught me by surprise when I viewed a Sim2 C3X 1080.

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post #671 of 701 Old 06-12-2010, 09:12 AM
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Yes, they had a white background up and I saw strobing of primary colors as I blinked and moved my head a bit (typical of how I see it usually). Prefer to use the term strobing than RBE as it is a more accurate description of why it occurs .

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post #672 of 701 Old 06-12-2010, 09:30 AM
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Terminology. But I see your point. Its like the difference between misconvergence and CA. The misalignment of grid lines caused by two different things but the artifact caused looks pretty much the same. The better terms would be colorwheel RBE and LED stobing RBE. What do you think? RBE whatever the cause is the artifact.

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post #673 of 701 Old 06-12-2010, 09:54 AM
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There are CRT owners who say they see color separation when darting their eyes back and forth, Ive never noticed this. I also do not see it with LED, so far anyway.
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post #674 of 701 Old 06-12-2010, 10:08 AM
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I don`t see colorwheel caused RBE unless I move my head rapidly from left to right. As soon as I view normally absolutely no problem. But different people have different thresholds. Like air sickness or sea sickness. An example would be a thread post annoyance threshhold for thread blur.

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post #675 of 701 Old 06-12-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I saw the vivitek LED unit at Infocomm. I was surprised that it suffered from strobing ("rainbow") effect. I am assuming the switching rate of the LEDs is not much higher than color wheel.

That's exactly what it is, switching rate is alot faster tho.
But all LED machines show this artifact so far, some more, some less - at least for some people. Those who can watch colorwheel DLPs shouldn't bother at all. DLP units with color wheels are simply unwatchable for me, within 20 minutes it feels like my head explodes.

While I can still see color seperation artifacts on LED machines, they are nowhere near as bad as on colorwheel based units. I can also only see them in darker scenes. I've previously mentioned that Public Enemy is a good demo disc for these type of artifacts, the scene when Dillinger hides in the hotel in the forest and the agents are approaching. While moving my eyes across the screen, the higher contrast areas (background/trees, faces/trees) are breaking up in a shade of grey/blue. So this is different to the rainbow artifact of colorwheel based units, where all colors were shown.

I've not had the chance to test the latest firmware on the Mico 50, but I was told it would significantly improve this issue. At least Sim2 is aware of it. Not sure about Runco and others. I can't see any such artifact in brigther scenes or with 3-chip DLP.

I've tried to show this artifact to a couple of other people on the Mico 50, but no one else could see it... lucky me, eh?

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post #676 of 701 Old 06-22-2010, 10:08 AM
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The Mico 40 is supposed to be released in July, yet there isn't any real info available. This guy supposedly already has one:

http://twitter.com/Glasgowaudio

Does anyone at least know the MSRP?
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post #677 of 701 Old 06-25-2010, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

The Mico 40 is supposed to be released in July, yet there isn't any real info available. This guy supposedly already has one:

http://twitter.com/Glasgowaudio

Does anyone at least know the MSRP?

I believe it will be around $15k

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post #678 of 701 Old 06-25-2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

I believe it will be around $15k

Do you have any details yet on the differences between the Mico 40 and Mico 50?

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post #679 of 701 Old 06-26-2010, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

Do you have any details yet on the differences between the Mico 40 and Mico 50?

I dont, sorry.

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post #680 of 701 Old 06-26-2010, 09:28 AM
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A double first. WOW! He doesn't know something about a Sim2 product. AND he said he was sorry. Just kidding about the sorry. He has said before he misunderstood what people have said in posts and modified his response. Just spoofing with CM. A very valuable contributor to our knowledge, its just that he is so shy.

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post #681 of 701 Old 06-26-2010, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

My last CRT was a 9500 Ultra with new tubes and the then latest MP mods. 110 inch D 1.78 1.3 gain. No way, and I mean no wa,y any 9 inch CRT is going to put out anywhere near your claim. What drugs are you taking? I have been involved with blends for large screens say 10 ft wide or so and double and tripple Sony 9 inch stacks and no way anywhere near those numbers. You my friend are sadly mistaken. Start a thread in the CRT forum and I will go there. Lets see who can back you up. try cliffy, william K, Ken W. Noone is going to be able to validate those claims.

Like I said a nice 8"-er could do 20 fL, no special Boeing tubes, or tricks like that required. Actually their small spotsize would hurt the light output.

http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.p...085#msg1569085

Reinier got 21 fL on his BD808S with DMB180 tubes. Straight greyscale, correct primaries and gamma, and lots a light. This does require some additional defocussing on the blue tube.

Must be luck combined with great skill (Reinier was the one to introduce the late thread starter of the old 'how much fL' thread over at the CRT subforum to calibration).

If this thread hadn't resurfaced I wouldn't have remembered your rebuttal Mark. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post18814697

And indeed his 1209 sporting LUGs does put out less light.
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post #682 of 701 Old 06-26-2010, 04:34 PM
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Defocusing the blue tube was a way of improving gray scale tracking before there was individual blue tube gamma correction. No offense, but I will just disagree and we can continue this over on the CRT forum if you wish.

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post #683 of 701 Old 06-26-2010, 04:54 PM
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No need to discuss it further, I had more or less forgotten the issue, till that old topic appeared in my unread topics overview.
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post #684 of 701 Old 07-01-2010, 03:03 PM
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It sounds to me as if this Sim2 LED machine is perfect. Perfect that is for normal mainstream Home Theater. Another way to put it is that it's a mature technology.

Front projectors have had a number of faults. At first they projected dim gray images which degraded over time. Then many people saw rainbows on other models. Some were noisy and some were hot. Some had fuzzy images from misconvergence. And all were subject to failing bulbs.

The Sim2 machine has none of these problems. By the any reasonable assessment it is just what everyone was after when they first tried to bring a movie theater experience into the home. It's perfect (for standard Home Theater movie viewing). Its only flaw is price.
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post #685 of 701 Old 07-01-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLB View Post

It sounds to me as if this Sim2 LED machine is perfect.

It's far from perfect. There are no perfect projectors, but leaving that fact aside...

- there are still rainbows. Not like the ones we know from color wheel based projectors, but still color seperation artifacts. Manufacturers are still working on it on all LED based machines, including Sim2.

- the Sim2 is "silent" because it's water cooled. There still is a fan in the machine. The much bigger problem is the PSU, which has a high frequency noise in bright scenes. This can be more annoying than a projector which is fan cooled.

- While there's no problem with misconvergence, depending on the production run, the Mico 50 (as well as other LED based machines) can still show a serious amount of CA. I've seen this happen more than 1 pixel wide. However Sim2 has agreed to exchange that particular projector for a new one, as they considered it damaged. A certain amount of CA is normal however.


So, this is not a perfect machine. But it sure is one of the best for the "small" screen. If you want to light up a really big screen, there are better choices.

- Stephan
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post #686 of 701 Old 07-02-2010, 06:17 AM
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Mico 60C Info Here.

Mico ST Info Here.

Affable Nitwit
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post #687 of 701 Old 07-02-2010, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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What other HT projectors on the market are IP addressable?
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post #688 of 701 Old 08-19-2010, 03:43 PM
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Just up on HT Review

HToM

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post #689 of 701 Old 08-20-2010, 12:56 PM
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The so called rainbow effect is a flicker-fusion threshold phenomenon. I was first involved in flicker-fusion in 1962.

Basically there is human variability in the speed at which a flickering light appears to fuse into a continuous light. There is also variability in colors fusing and movie frames fusing.

All these phenomena have thresholds such that above the threshold the image seems continuous and no faster cycling is needed. You can easily adjust your threshold - with booze.

If you see rainbows - drink a Martini. If you still see them - repeat.

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post #690 of 701 Old 08-20-2010, 04:58 PM
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By two I would be asleep and see no artifacts.

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